How (not) to fit 18x10

[Steve Chryssos]

So you wanna fit a 10" wide wheel on your stock 67-68 1st gen. A tape measure will tell you that there more than 11" between the inside edge of the wheelwell lip and the back of the wheelhouse.
Well it's not impossible. I've had 18x10's on my 68 for more than 3 years. Tires are 285/35-18 and springs are DSE 3" drop. Shocks were relocated many moons ago to clear Wheel Vintique's 17" steel rally wheels. So I can't tell you if stock position shocks will clear.
--BUT--
When I ordered my rear wheels back on 02, my measurements were off. I decided to "play it safe" and go 5.5" back. Turns out there's no room for error. No biggie. Rubbing has not really been a problem until a recent trip where the wheelwell lip deformed and trashed one of my tires. As the top of the lip was pushed up, the side (9 o clock position) pulled out and became a knife.

So it's time to make things better. You can use the following information as a guideline for your own project. But if your car is not yet painted, be sure to roll your wheelwell lips now. If you are even remotely considering rolling those wheelwell lips--do it now Then a 18x10 - 5.75 back SHOULD fit nicely.

The proper solution to my problem is to send the rear wheels back to Kinesis Motorsport and have them swap rim halves. They will need to swap both halves since I want to subtract .250" outside and add it back to the inside. That's the right way to do it and that's why I spent the big bucks on modular wheels in the first place. But rim swaps cost money.

My company, Twist Machine, is my top (one and only?) priority lately, so rather than spend the money to do it right, I'm considering doing the nasty: milling the mounting pads. I have 1/2" ARP wheel studs so the taper has plenty of surface area/clamping force--and we are dealing with forged aluminum here. But the wheels may still crack. What is it? Measure once, cut twice? At best, I can cut .150" so I think I'll pass on milling the pads.

So I guess I will stop here, roll my wheel well lips and call Kinesis.
Here, share in my dilemma (use the slideshow feature or click on each pic to zoom in:
http://homepage.mac.com/streetfytr/PhotoAlbum37.html

[Steve68]

Maybe you should have gone with a 5 7/8 or a 5 3/4, but will Kenisis, make that B/S, I had 15x10 Centerline Auto Drags with 4 7/8 back inthe 80's which sat right insde the lip, but we had schackles and then a car with flares (2 different cars),

I want to run 18X9.5 or 10 on the rear, see post farther down, nobody else has, I just think I will have to do a rail notch and move the shocks inboard or ?, but the more I look at my car and then look at the rippled inner edge on your quarter panel, the more I want to trim the complete edge off and use some 3m bonding agent to bond the inner wheel house to the panel,

I don't want to go F'n crazy and do a complete Mini Tub, just because I just did the panels and I want to use my fold down rear seat, and I don't want to shorten the back like Stuarts, but let me know what your going to do, Later Steve

Oh yea, I can't post pics or scan the pics of the car in the 80's with the 10's on it, not puter savy, even though Ralph has tried to learn me,

[BRIAN]

I just can't see the justification of all that money to say you have a 285 under there. The 275 fits as it would be nicley stretched on that 10" rim, eliminating the sidewall bulge. I would be just as concerned with under 1" inner clearance with a leaf spring suspension.

Those springs are going to sag and you are going to encounter bigger bumps while turning. Your car is a "GO" car so why compromise? Are you overpowering the tires?


I heard all day long at the Goodguy's show why I didn't squeeze 20's under my car. Honeslty in order to sell it I may cave in but honestly I would rather have proper fit with no worries at full suspension travel than say a larger set up.

I would have to guess you have another reason as your car is pretty impressive driver.

[Steve Chryssos]

Yeah, I just saw your other post. You can do it!! You just have to be a stubborn S.O.B. Consider laying back the rear face of the wheelhouse. You should only have to move it 1/2 inch. You can make two vertical cuts on either end thne lay it back as far back as the frame rails (or less) and then patch the gaps. You will have to relocate the shocks. Then roll the lips for sure. You might be able to fit the 295's but I would stick with a 2" spring. It's a pain in the ass but at least you don;t have to cut into the frame rails.

I just rolled my lips some and stuck a 285 tire in the opening (dismounted--no wheel) It fits and it oozes attitude. I'll try to take more pix tomorrow.

[Steve Chryssos]

I would have to guess you have another reason as your car is pretty impressive driver.

Just stubborn. I can just as easily send the wheels back and have 1/2" taken off the front side and then run a 275 tire. All you have here is a guy scratching his head, considering the possibilities. It's a popular question so I thought I'd take some pix and share my thought process with others.

Anybody can run a 9" wheel on a 275. I'm gonna try to run a 10" wheel and an extra 1/2" of rubber--just to see if I can. I've made it work so far for four years. Now I just want to make it work a little better.

[yody]

Well I had the exact same thing happen to me....sort of. The first times I wanted to drive the car, I had these huge rear spacers on the back, they were about 1" thick(only need about 3/16" spacer on the rear) and the wheels stuck out. Went up a driveway and totally ripped the lip and cut a BRAND NEW 295/35/19 pilot sport, and ben the wheel lip out. Oops lesson learned!! Now my lips are completely rolled, there is no lip at all, and I too have about 5.80 backspacing on a 10" wheel. If the wheel cambers a bunch it will rub slightly in the inner part of the wheelhousing but not much, and that doesnt' do anything but mess the paint up.

You out of all people should know that milling the wheels is not the correct thing to do. I sure wouldnt' want a cracked wheel at 100mph. Just cough up the dough

BTW whats polished glass?

[Steve68]

Steve, got any pics yet? I guess you can just cut pie wedges in the the metal and bed them inwards,

but what part of the back of the wheelwell were you talking about,I have to pull the tire out of the way an look,


but can you bring the wheel lip down to the tire ie; lower the rear a little more, the right look and still be functional not tearing the **** out the edge of the tire,

Whats the size difference of the 285/295 tire, Steve

[camcojb]

I ran 5.75" b.s. on the rear of mine for a while. It will rub on the inside some, so be prepared for that. Mostly just going into driveways at an angle and similar situations. Good thing is it doesn't cut the tire, it rubs on the inner wheelwell and it's smooth.

Jody

[Steve Chryssos]

Steve, got any pics yet? I guess you can just cut pie wedges in the the metal and bed them inwards,
but what part of the back of the wheelwell were you talking about,I have to pull the tire out of the way an look,
but can you bring the wheel lip down to the tire ie; lower the rear a little more, the right look and still be functional not tearing the **** out the edge of the tire,

Whats the size difference of the 285/295 tire, Steve

25.4 mm millimeters per so conversion is as follows:
276mm / 25.4mm/in = 10.83"
285mm / 25.4mm/in = 11.22"
295mm / 25.4mm/in = 11.61"
315mm / 25.4mm/in = 12.40"

285mm tire can work with a rolled lip and 5.75" back.
295mm will require a rolled lip and wheelhouse "tweaking" We can call it a micro-tub. :rolleyes5
315mm tire (which I think you can find under the Red Witch built way back in 1995) may also require offset leaf spring shackles and light frame clearancing. Maybe not. Remember that all this is with DSE 3" springs. 2" springs may be a little more forgiving.

If this all sounds stupid to anyone, remember that you can fit more than the usual 275 without serious effort. The framerails remain 100% intact. If your car has not been painted yet, this decision to roll wheelwell lips should be a no-brainer. Also we've seen quite a few discussions regarding 335mm tires being "too big" for typical HP applications. Do some homework on the term "slip angles": http://www.auto-ware.com/setup/slp_hndl.htm.

And obviously you can do a full DSE mini-tub and then run a 315mm tire just cause it's the right tire for your combination--plus room to grow.

I jammed a 285 tire up in the wheelwell with no wheel attached. Just got back from the beach. So I'll shoot and post a picture later on.

As for the wheels, they will go back to Kinesis for rim half swaps over the winter. I'll take a 1/4" to 1/2" off the front half and add it to the rear half. They basically trade your existing rim halves for new parts and charge you a premium plus labor.

[Steve68]

Sounds good, I have the 2" dropped springs, more later

[Ralph LoGrasso]

25.4 mm millimeters per so conversion is as follows:
276mm / 25.4mm/in = 10.83"
285mm / 25.4mm/in = 11.22"
295mm / 25.4mm/in = 11.61"
315mm / 25.4mm/in = 12.40"


Not to contradict what Steevo said, and I'm sure you guys know, but some tire manufacturers have large variations in their tire sizes, in respect to other brands. For example, my 295/35/18 Kumhos have a manufacturers stated section width of 11.9" and I've measured them to be 12" even before mounting. Technically, they should be 11.6" as Steevo converted. Where as most people complain about the 315/35/17 Nitto drag radials, because they're much smaller than other 315s. I think they're around 11.5-8" or so. Just something to keep in mind with individual tire manufacturers, if you're dealing with tight clearences.

[Steve Chryssos]

Tire in the hole! :machine:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[yody]

here are some pics of my fender roll with nothing but some pliers and a hammer, I haven'ttouchedup the inner fender yet, the black needs some touching up and the lip will be painted body color i guess
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[SatisTraction]

steve

what did you use to roll your fender lips. I just bought the eastwood roller and i am looking for some pointers!!!! I hope to fit a 335 tire on a 18x12 rim. I have the dse mini tub kit installed so it "should" work :)

[Steve68]

I tried to post a couple of pics, but I can't figure it out, Maybe I can e-mail them to Ralph, and he can post them,

Steve, how does you wheel lip look, mines big and fat, but our car look about the same, mine needs to be rolled, is a mini sledge cosidered micro tubbing, lol,

I need to pull my tire down a little and take some measurements, but I did bolt on my spindles tighten up the sway bar mounts and endlinks, maybe tomorrow I'll put the bearings in the hubs and bolt them on, I figured just a little everyday,

[Steve Chryssos]

....what did you use to roll your fender lips. I just bought the eastwood roller....

I'm envious. My tool of choice is the Louisville Slugger. The Eastwood tool should provide excellent results. And in you case it looks like the car is not painted yet, so you don't have to worry about cracking the paint.

But painted or not, the most important thing is: Patience. Roll the lip in small increments so that you let the metal stretch. The top will be rolled, the sides will not. So the metal's gotta stretch.

[SatisTraction]

if you have any, please post some picks of your work for me to see.
thanks
chris

[yody]

.....or in my case, hammer slowly

[Steve Chryssos]

if you have any, please post some picks of your work for me to see. thanks chris

Will do Chris. Kinda hard to take a picture of the wheelwell lip but I'll try.

[Rybar]

We rolled the lips on my 1/4's with a tool similar to that, the problem was with 69's is the squared off wheelwell made it hard to get it all done. (from 10-2)

I'm running a 10" wheel with 5.75" BS. I haven't driven the car yet, but I will soon find out how it fares.

Thanks for the input, and the pics Steve.

[Steve68]

so the general concensus is rolled lips/maybe some inner fender mods a 18x10 with 5.75 B/S, time to roll the lips!!

[Steve Chryssos]

so the general concensus is rolled lips/maybe some inner fender mods a 18x10 with 5.75 B/S, time to roll the lips!!

....and a 285 tire. That's what I'm doing, but I'm gonna dig a little deeper just for the sake of knowledge. I'm gonna remove my wheelhouses and modify or replace them. While they're out, I'll narrow the filler panel (upper shock mount area) between frame rail and inner wheelhouse to explore a 295 tire and 6 back wheel in conjunction with relocated shocks. My shocks are already moved inboard, so the job is partially done.

Maybe these pictures and info could help the next guy. If you're handy and think that a 295/40 is just the right tire for your performance package, a "micro tub" could make sense--especially if you don't want to dig into your frame rails. But for the most part, once you try to run a 295/40, you might as well do the DSE mini-tub and go 315 or 335.

Before I proceed, I should contact Charlie Lillard and find out if the Red Witch has stock frame rails.

[Rybar]

Tire in the hole! :machine:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Steve, what exhaust are you running? I like the way yours exits out the back, let me know!

[Steve Chryssos]

That is Flowmaster's kit. Nice product, but does not fit well with my DSE 3" springs and Competition Engineering upper shock crossmember.

[Damn True]

Steve,

You only need .5-.75" more right? Can't you gain that by rolling the lip and doing a bit of "massage" work on the inner wheel house? If you got in there with a hammer and dolly I'd think you'd be able to make some room at the tight points. Yeah it would narf up the trunk paint, but bah-hooey, it's the trunk. Rattle can it.

Seems like a lot to do the work that will allow an additional 60mm of tire when you only really need room for about 15mm more.

[Steve Chryssos]

You're right. But the next guy will wanna know how to do it without the help of Mr. Hammer. I already own the 285's but If I'm making room, I may as well make room for the next set of tires which may be 295/40.

[Damn True]

Gotcha, it's masochistic, but I'd probably wind up doing the same thing.

[Steve Chryssos]

Yeah. It's such a common question. And the honest answer is so easy: 275 tire. But any rodder worth his left lug nut has gotta be left wondering if they could squeeze a 285 tire. Or how hard could it be to stuff a 295 up there?

Alrighty then. Let's find out. My wheelhouses are not in perfect shape anyway. So what the hell...

[Damn True]

Be brave m'lad. Take thyn plasma cutter and step forth into the breach.

[Steve68]

What about taking a Porta power to the inner wheel house, or heating and pushing the wheel house inwards, Yes it's the trunk area,so it can be alittle ugly,

Your right 275 fits, 285 little work, 295 more work, but the wow factor, Yes, going hog wild with the DSE mini tub would be the way to go and the 315/335,

the next step before the DSE Mini Tub, the micro tub, massaging the wheel houses, notching the frame rails and giving the push inward, I'll have to get in there and look around, any man can give up and go 275/285. but only the psycho's will take the mini sledge to the car,

Can anybody give me a tutorial how to post pics,

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Steve, if you want to see how a 295 will fit up in that wheel house before laying out the coin for tires, we can mock up my 18x10s and 295/35/18s in there. We can probably use somecardboard to figure out the perfect backspacing as well, since my wheels currently have about 8" of B/S or so. I think they're a +40 offset. I've only got 295/35s, though. 26.1" OD. 295/40s would be another 1" taller. Does Nitto make 295s, now? I wanted to run Nittos, but they only had 285/35 or a 305/35/18 drag radial, which is what I will probably swap to in the future.

[Damn True]

Hey, if you do that mockup please post photos and info somewhere.

That would be some IMPORTANT data.

[Steve Chryssos]

Porta power? Naw. I'm going to bust out the whiz wheel (air powered cut off wheel).

Here I go......

[SatisTraction]

just mini tub it and be done with it. you really do not need the DSE kit. you already have a shock cross member. Just trim around the inner fender in the trunk. (cut the trun pan). then cut the inner fender on the flat area. add about 2" of material and put it back togther. use the comp eng rear shackle mount.

SOUNDS so easy :)

but then you will be wanting a 335 tire. LOL, this never ends!!!

[Steve68]

Whiz wheel! got one, when you gonna start, show us some pics there might be some of us that might follow suit, I have to go clean out all the rust proofing, lol

[D Rock]

So if I decided to go with a 275 on the back of my 67 Camaro, and a ?x9.5 rim, then I would need 5.5 backspacing correct?

[vanzuuk1]

Steevo, go for it!

Also, your car would look evil with black wheels.

[Damn True]

Steve-o,
What was the outcome here?

[Steve Chryssos]

Outcome? I barely started the project. I will get it done before Power Tour. But the math is pretty easy: 18x10 with 6" backspacing. Very minor setback of the inner wheelhouse and roll the lips.

[Boulder69]

Steve,

What did you end up doing? This thread is a good one so I thought I would bump it back up and see if anyone else has stuffed 285s or 295s without the minitubs. Anyone?

[neki67]

I've got 285-40-17's on my 67. I gave it a little clearance by cutting the small portion of floor in between the inner wheelwell and the frame rail. Convince the wheel well to go in and weld it all together again. Voila, you can fit a 285 on a 10" rim.

I call it a mini-minitub.