Looking for Good front end alignment tools for the home mechanic...

[anarchy99]

Hey guys, I've been looking a lot lately at front end alignment tools and I think I'm ready to bite the bullet and get the stuff I need to properly setup toe caster and camber settings. Does anyone have any recommendations on which tools I should look into? I'm sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I own quite a few cars now so I think actually buying the tools will be more beneficial since roughly every shop I drive my sprite to says no go, too low to the ground.

[bret]

Heres what we use...http://www.ridetech.com/store/quicktrick-alignment-quickslide-w-case-17-22-wheel.html

[parsonsj]

I use the Smart Racing stuff:

http://www.smartracingproducts.com

[rustomatic]

Old school: Get yourself a short level and some large steel plates (or sections of plywood), and some brightly colored string (I have pink) for setting toe.

[dontlifttoshift]

For those using at home methods, have you ever checked them against the laser machines at the alignment shop?

Brett, that looks pretty slick.

[parsonsj]

I do. Especially to double-check my toe settings.

95399

I set up my car at about 2.3* front camber, 7.8* caster, front toe (out) at 1/8", rear camber 1.7*, rear toe (in) at 1/8".

I'll report back with how that agrees with the alignment shop.

[anarchy99]

I looked at the smart string stuff but with the with the way we setup the sprites front end, I'm not sure it would work since it's a flip forward front end and I was worried about the bar in the front hitting stuff. I ended up getting the quick trick dual setup that works on 13 inch wheels. It has 2 gauges so I can do both sides if needed.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/null_zpse18a7a3e-1.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/jpurdy231/media/null_zpse18a7a3e.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/null_zpsa8577cf0-1.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/jpurdy231/media/null_zpsa8577cf0.jpg.html)

[dontlifttoshift]

John, Please report back with the results. I see you found Rivals.

I have used every alignment guy within a 1/2 hour drive and it always requires one of two things. Babysitting the alignment guy or arguing with him, some are better than others but I am tired of it.

[rickpaw]

Babysitting the alignment guy or arguing with him, some are better than others but I am tired of it.

This. That's why I bought my own alignment tools (SPC fast trak and HotRod Transformation's toe plates). What I'm missing are the turn tables.

[SSLance]

I do. Especially to double-check my toe settings.

95399

I set up my car at about 2.3* front camber, 7.8* caster, front toe (out) at 1/8", rear camber 1.7*, rear toe (in) at 1/8".

I'll report back with how that agrees with the alignment shop.


How did the folded up trash bag work as a slip plate?

[rchaskin]

A 3ft long length of wax paper folded a few times and put under the front tires is slick as glass.

[rickpaw]

A 3ft long length of wax paper folded a few times and put under the front tires is slick as glass.

Thanks for the tips. I've used junk mail sale flyers, but the wax paper idea is much better.

[83hurstguy]

John, Please report back with the results. I see you found Rivals.

I have used every alignment guy within a 1/2 hour drive and it always requires one of two things. Babysitting the alignment guy or arguing with him, some are better than others but I am tired of it.

Share your frustration there. I've used some John Bean machines in the past... the biggest problem with that equipment was that it wasn't setup for custom applications, and was a pain to work with for it. Most techs are just taught to look up "year, make, model", which provides them the settings from the software, then turn wrenches until it all goes green. When we were doing chassis testing at the proving grounds and the machines were giving us fits, the first thing to come back out was the old bubble gauges.

On my car, I found some minor frame damage due to crash damage from a previous owner, brought it in to get frame horn tweaked less than an inch (to align bumper better). Rather than just check the alignment when done, the shop "did me a favor and took most of that caster out of there." Argh!

I'm down to deciding between the smart camber and quick trick alignment tools. There are a few sellers on eBay that sells turn plates for $200, it's nice to have the angle gauge on there for measuring sweep angle while checking caster. Debating if those are worth the $200 as well.

[parsonsj]

Yes, the garbage bags work as sliding plates, both to settle the suspension when the car is lowered back to ride height, and for measuring caster. I was able to set everything to where I wanted it. Now it's off to the local alignment place (to check my work) to argue and/or babysit the alignment guy, as Donny said.

I'll report back on my accuracy: I think I'm at 2.3/2.4 static camber up front, along with 7.5 to 8.0 caster, and .125 total toe out. In the back I'm at 1.6/1.7 camber and .125 total toe in.

Donny: the Rivals for the front were never the problem: it's the ones in the back I couldn't find. I finally managed to get a pair of used ones that do hold air. We'll see how the car does in a couple of weeks.

[anarchy99]

Every shop I drove to with my eyeball alignment said they loved the car but couldn't align it for 1 reason or another, even though it's basically the simplest setup ever. With having several vehicles that I need to align, buying the tools and learning the tricks of the trade seemed like a no brainer. Maybe I'll get good enough to be able to spread the word to buddies and hook them up for beer. we'll see. I love the wax paper, trash bag idea, so simple.

[bret]

The issue is to find an alignment guy who is smarter than the equipment they are working with. VERY difficult.

Alignment is NOT rocket science. The worst you can do is screw it up. The absolute worst you can do is feather a set of front tires. All fixable. If the car drives nice and doesn't wear the tires you are good. You can then sneak up on the little tricks that might make you .001 faster in an autocross.

I ran across a guy last year at RTTH in Pigeon Forge with an early camaro with an aftermarket subframe. It pushed like a dump truck. He "just had his alignment guy look at it" right before he came to the event, but it was VERY obvious that he had a metric ton of positive camber. I took my iphone out [i have a level app] and set it up against the tire...sure enough...about 2 degrees of positive camber. Me and Billy Utley did a hillbilly alignment with a couple of yardsticks, a couple of tape measures and my trusty Iphone...it was not perfect but it sure was better...the car picked up 2 seconds the next lap. And the owner said it had never driven that good before.
The point is...if it doesnt look right, it probably isnt. Dont trust the machine...its not as smart as you are. Educate yourself about alignment. Its almost as valuable as driving school!

AND...think about all the time and money you'll save!

[overZealous1]

i always say i am going to go get an alignment done, but before i go through the hassle of making appointment and waiting and all that jazz, i pull out my 24" level for camber, then i made a couple 2x2 cedar sticks that i fastened a framing square to for toe. actually very accurate if on level ground and have done it on countless cars over the last 20 years.
it is about time i got better equipment though. thanks for the links.

[rustomatic]

I can't really improve on what Bret said above, but his parking lot method works better than what 99% of yahoos with alignment certifications will give you with all the great technology. Since the lasers depend on computer records programmed for makes and models and stock settings, you will never win with an old car. On an old car, you'll always do better with an old-schooler who knows how to do it manually; the best alignments I've ever received were from a guy who knew what he was looking at (literally--he could actually see and understand camber angles), and knew how to use manual tools (basically a large square for toe).

Without meaning to, I actually got an alignment guy fired once--this was many years ago, on a '67 Mustang, before I was ever willing to try it myself. I could visually identify and label how the guy had made the car worse than it was (I'd just installed new control arms), but I took it for a drive anyway, just to humor him. I proceeded to effortlessly aim the car right at a curb, ten feet out of the shop's driveway. I brought it back, an argument between boss and tech ensued, and separation occurred. I got my money back and went somewhere else...

If the manual stuff works, why seek out confirmation from lasers, especially if you know how close your wheelbase is to square (or thereabouts)?

[another69]

I have always done my own alignments out of necessity and now I actually prefer doing it myself. I would love to have access to an alignment rack but for now I just do it in my garage. I have a 4 post lift that I took my time to level. I put the car/truck on it and use a Longacre caster/camber gauge and toe plates. What I have always missed is turn plates. I know that many of the above methods (trash bags, wax paper, etc.) allow the tires to slip easier, but what about caster accuracy? The tires need to be turned left and right the same exact amount in order to measure it, so how do you do that without the gauge on turn plates?

[parsonsj]

I had my 'Vette checked at the local alignment place, where the guy's been doing alignments for 30 years. Dude is actually older than me!

My camber and caster were identical to what the machine found, though my toe was off about .040. Not too bad at all.

As far as measuring caster, I have a cardboard template with 20* lines drawn on it, and I looked for 20* by eyeball. It was right on the money.

[SSLance]

I put masking tape on the steering column and steering wheel and mark both for dead center ahead (found when driving the car in). I then turn the steering wheel 20* left and verify by the angle on the end of the Joe's racing tool I use for camber and caster. A long level on it compared to the side of the car gets it pretty eyeball close. Once there, I put another mark on the steering wheel tape even with the mark on the column. Then repeat that process on the other side of the car.

I realize it isn't perfect...but it gets the wheels to 20* left, centered and 20* right time after time while doing the alignment.

[David Pozzi]

Joe's Racing Caster/Camber gauge. You want one that can read caster to 10 or 12 degrees if you will ever do a Vette or Viper, camber to -4 degrees.

Usually, an Aluminum wheel has no place to attach the magnet. I either make a large thick washer that fits the center hole register & bolts in place, or some wheels have enough space between the spokes to stick the gauge to the rotor. Be careful if you do this, some rotors have ridges near the hat that will tilt the gauge. The rear toe can be set by placing a ruler against the frame rails just behind the front wheels sticking straight out on each side, place the laser against the rear wheel and hit the ruler. You can stick the Gauge to a flat piece of metal and hold it up against the wheel but it's not ideal.

Circle track aluminum toe plates,

Longacre turntables. You need some kind of turntable to free up the wheels or you won't get a repeatable alignment, they also help to set camber by getting exactly 20 degrees turn out and in.
I use a 24" level with built-in dot Laser. I think it's a Harbor Freight model.I place the other end tires up on equal height blocks.

I lock the steering wheel on-center, place the laser against the tire at axle height and aim it at the rear wheel, then adjust toe until both tires are even. It doesn't matter if they are both toed out or in a little as long as they are the same, if the dot won't hit the rear tire I place a piece of wood right up against the rear tire for the laser to hit. From there, I adjust each tie rod the same amount to get toe to spec using the Aluminum toe plates with two tape measures.

String lines are better for getting all 4 wheels going the same way, but this is much quicker and has worked well for me. I quickly aligned a McLaren Mk2 and later drove it on the track and was amazed I got it so close. Doing string lines well usually requires finding the exact center of the car front and rear, then positioning the strings equal distance from that centerline but at axle height, but you can cheat and measure out from each wheel hub, but accuracy suffers a bit. It's best if the strings are held on the car, not jack stands, etc.

[Cobra 498]

I mount a laser that I got from Home Depot to a piece of aluminum angle stock and use stand offs to touch the rim and not the tire. I have an 8' 2x4 that I put about 6' in front of the car then mark the spot on the 2x4 with the steering straight ahead where the laser hits on both front tires. If the 2x4 is exactly 6' from the center of the front hubs you can then use a hand calculator to determine the tangent of 20 degrees which is .3639. Multiply .3639 x 72" and you get 26.2" make a mark 26.2 either side of the spot that was located by the laser beam when straight ahead. Turn the wheel till the laser is on the right hand spot and measure camber (with a Home Depot digital level vertically on the wheel rim. Then turn the wheel back till the laser hits the LH spot and measure camber. You then use the caster formula for 20 degrees and you have caster for a 20 degree right and 20 degree left turn. Repeat on the opposite side of the car. You can also measure Ackerman during this process by checking where the opposite side tire laser hits the 2x4. For example if you have the LH wheel pointed 20 degrees to the left and you put the laser on the right and wheel and it is pointed 19" to the left of center you divide 19/72 and get .263 calculate the inverse tangent and get 14.78 degrees so you have a little over 5 degrees of Ackerman steer. You will need a scientific calculator, a laser and a digital level for this but you will then be able to measure camber, caster and toe very accurately. Small increments of toe show up as big changes when you have the target 2x4 6' or more out from the hub centers. I even use the laser clamped to the wheel rim and aimed a a 4x8 sheet of plywood to measure bump steer. When you raise and lower the suspension you can see what the laser trace looks like and see if you are getting toe change in either bump or rebound and minimize it. Again if you are about 6' or more away a small toe change shows up as a big move on the plywood.

[parsonsj]

Great stuff all.

I think my toe errors were caused because my string method measures at the front and back of the rim, and the differences are just the width of the line on my steel ruler. It's too easy to make a slight error. I'll try one of the laser methods to magnify that difference and see if I can increase my accuracy next time.

[SSLance]

I like the 2x4 idea Cobra. I built 2 of these from some scrap angle iron and dowel rod I had laying around and put laser pointers on the fronts of the rods to use when I was dialing in my bump steer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/IMG_20130818_174946_691-1.jpg

I put graph paper on cardboard 7 feet in front of the front tire edge and plotted the bump steer like this.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/08/DSC03230JPG-1.jpg

I never thought about using these for setting the toe and checking ackerman. That would work great. Also would work for dialing in the exact 20* sweep each direction for checking caster.

Question, when you say you put the 2x4 6 feet in front of the car...where exactly do you measure from? The furthest forward part of the tire, the leading edge of where the tread touches the ground, the spindle or the front bumper?

This shot also shows my custom ride height measuring tool...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/IMG_20130818_174928_966-1.jpg

[Cobra 498]

I used the center line of the spindle because that is where the angle is generated, you can go further out and increase your accuracy. I used 6' because I could do that with the garage door closed in the winter (I have a small shop). I redesigned and fabricated new steering arms last winter to increase steering angle for Good Guys Autox U turns and this really helped me to measure maximum angle and ackerman using light weight prototype pieces to see if the concept worked before fabing heavy steel arms. I actually had a 2x4 at the front and rear of the car so that I could measure toe and get the rear thrust angle correct. Once you have the true center line of the car you can set rear toe accurately on each side. I used to use fishing line but this is easier. I measure the distance on the front 2x4 between where the laser strikes the 2x4 on both sides when pointed straight ahead divide in half and then make a center line mark. Then you can set rear toe (if it is independent) to make sure the laser strikes the front 2x4 equally on each side of center. Then mark the rear 2x4 where the laser strikes it and divide that in half and you have the rear center line, if you make the distance from the rear center line and the front center line the same you have 0 toe with 0 thrust angle. Use trigonometry to solve for what ever rear toe angle you want and mark that on the 2x4 and then set the toe. The 2x4 should be at the same height as the spindle center line for absolute accuracy but having on the floor will be close enough.

[snappytravis]

I am working on 69 Camaro project and have been thinking about doing my own alignment, Just saw this thread pretty cool tools I also found this on the web and thought I would through it on here. I like the digital gauges and the james bond case that it comes in. I may order some alignment tools.
http://www.shop.davismotorsportsofreno.com/Longacre-DIGITAL-DUNLOP-STYLE-CASTER-CAMBER-GAUGE-13-22-rims-LON78295.htm