68 camaro drives like crap bump steer help

[jpgearhead]

hi everyone, I have a 68 Camaro been building past two years, been on road last two mouths ls1 6 speed swap witch has two inch drop spindles witch I read about being bad for first gen Camaro, witch I dont understand cause only thing that moves is spindle so everything remains in same place and I don't have tie rode interference as im running 18,inch wheels 8 inch wide front , Car has all new front end parts such as ball joints bushing tire rod ends so on.. running stock a arms, . I took it to get a alignment the day I put it on the road set the toe, but couldn't get caster with in specs -3 on caster on passenger it already had off set camber bar, but was getting to close to header so took car home took a arm off massaged header a little. Put the camber off set bar in mill machine and took a 1/8 inch of it for more adjustment, put it all back together and back to alignment shop I went, now the best we could get caster with out getting camber so bad it eat tires off was 0 on caster and 0 on camber all we could get there is no shims in front on a arm anymore. so that's all the adjustment possible, alignment guy said engine sub frame may have sag as nothing bent ?, so my toe is set with in specs and my caster is set at 0 and camber set at 0 both sides, car steers with no effort at all and im running ls1 pump could it put out more pressure then the 68 Camaro gear box needs? witch is new also, now for it driving bad real noticeable on country roads it feels darty when corning and really feel it when popping over a little hill seems to dart to the side with less weight on it witch seems like bump steer to me, what the hell do I need to buy to put on it to get it to drive good and handle well. Can I do it for under a grand please someone iv read and read some more and come the conclusion someone has to know a fix, the way this thing drive takes a lot of fun out of my dream car,

[wendell]

I couldn't follow what you are doing on your mill but you've got to figure out how to get some positive caster. If I'm thinking about this right, sagging subframe bushings should increase +caster. But you should still dimension your subframe and compare to the specifications given in the AIM.

What's your toe set at? 0 or toe out w/ no caster will make for a wondering and darty ride. If your uprights are stock height, I'd start at -0.5 degrees of static camber. That's my best guess only knowing that you've got 18" wheels, maybe a bit more camber. Keep at it. This is part that's more fun and rewarding what buying stuff and bolting it on.

Edit: Don't start playing with your power steering until you get some caster dialed in. Steering effort is directly related to caster. More + caster, more steering effort.

[killer69]

the drop spindles ALSO move the mounting location of the steering arm. if you compare the 2 you will see this , and that is where the bump steer problem arises from.

[jpgearhead]

I couldn't follow what you are doing on your mill but you've got to figure out how to get some positive caster. If I'm thinking about this right, sagging subframe bushings should increase +caster. But you should still dimension your subframe and compare to the specifications given in the AIM.

What's your toe set at? 0 or toe out w/ no caster will make for a wondering and darty ride. If your uprights are stock height, I'd start at -0.5 degrees of static camber. That's my best guess only knowing that you've got 18" wheels, maybe a bit more camber. Keep at it. This is part that's more fun and rewarding what buying stuff and bolting it on.

Edit: Don't start playing with your power steering until you get some caster dialed in. Steering effort is directly related to caster. More + caster, more steering effort.

As for what I was doing on the mill I took the off set camber bar off a arm, Then milled a extra 1/8 inch off. That way there be a extra 1/8 inch for more shims witch in turn would be more adjustment, witch still wasn't enough to get caster in more then 0. My toe is set 1/4 inch in, I know of no other way to get more caster with out a arms with it built in. You have any thoughts on that? thanks for your time to read and reply to my post.

[jpgearhead]

the drop spindles ALSO move the mounting location of the steering arm. if you compare the 2 you will see this , and that is where the bump steer problem arises from.

Why would they make them this way that would defect the point of drop spindles? Iv seen that they sell taller tire rode ends to move it down to in prove bump steer. So seems if it was truly lower wouldn't that help bump steer? but ill ditch them in a heart beat if it would in prove it. Thanks for the reply

[marolf101x]

Depends on the spindle manufacturer. We have a "tall" spindle that also provides a 2" drop, however the steering arms are left in the OE location, which keeps bumpsteer as good as the General did in the 60's while adding increased camber gain under suspension compression. To get the bumpsteer to modern levels we then created the TruTurn kit which moves the tie rod locations to minimize bumpsteer.

I agree with most other advice posted. . .get the caster as close to 5 degrees as you can. . .put -0.5 degrees camber in it.
If the headers are in the way, dent them or move them. There's no point in a car that makes an extra 10hp if it too damn scary to drive (and not scary in a good way)!

P.S.-if you'd like more responses I kindly suggest that you use proper punctuation and spacing when making a post. One long run-on sentence, or one large paragraph without capitalization makes it difficult to read, so most people will just ignore it and go on to the next post.

[RobNoLimit]

It isn't all that uncommon to see 1rst gen subframes 'sag' in (as viewed from the front, the "U" cradle closes) This makes alignment a chore, or impossible. At the very least, you have two problems. 1) caster/camber range. and 2) bumpsteer. You need to fix one at a time. You need an upper arm, or upper and lower, that are made to increase the caster to 5+, and still give you the camber you need. But, if the sub isn't within OE spec, there's no way to know what that change needs to be. I would suggest SPC #UCA-49305 adjustable upper control arm, also, get their tall upper ball joint. These will get you in range, and no header mods are needed. To me, 5+ caster may still be minimal, (I'd be looking for 7) but it's a good start. Like the others said, start with -0.5* camber. You have to get the basic alignment in range before you can solve the bump problem. - Which may be more involved if you want it perfect. If I knew where you were I might recommend someone who could help. RideTech's True-Turn is a good set up. Also, there are longer, and/or, adjustable tie rod ends. There are also custom center links with adjustable inner pivot points. Knowing "what" to do here is the key. A bump steer gauge would help, common for circle track guys. Let us know how it goes.

[wendell]

But, if the sub isn't within OE spec, there's no way to know what that change needs to be.
I'd tackle this part before you start buying stuff.

[parsonsj]

P.S.-if you'd like more responses I kindly suggest that you use proper punctuation and spacing when making a post. One long run-on sentence, or one large paragraph without capitalization makes it difficult to read, so most people will just ignore it and go on to the next post.Count me among those who found the post difficult to read. Writing for the reader goes a long way to getting help when the medium of exchange is written English.

Punctuation, spelling, and paragraphs are your friend.