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bovey
04-20-2014, 06:56 PM
Welcome to my build thread. I will be outlining the upgrades that will be made to my 1971 GMC to compete in the Targa Newfoundland in September 2014. For those of you unfamiliar, the Targa Newfoundland is a 1400 mile race across rural Newfoundland, way up north in Canada. I will also be AutoXing and doing track days.

http://www.targanewfoundland.com/index.php/en/

A little history from 1989.
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I have owned this truck for over 25 years. My dad gave it to me as a father-son project when I was 14, it was a 100 dollar pile of green... rust. It took 8 years to complete the original build and over the years I have kept upgrading it, mostly for road trips and occasional trips to the drag strip and I land speed raced it a few years ago. You may have seen a small blurb about it in Aug. 2011s Hot Rod.

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I have been trying to find a form of racing that I could compete in, that I enjoyed and fit into my busy life. I started auto crossing the truck with a local Subaru club last year, just for kicks. It is outrageously fun. One thing led to another and Im now a volunteer to organize events and I fell off the deep-end in February when I signed up to be the first truck to ever compete in the Targa Newfoundland.

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One of these is not like the other. Actually, the Subaru crowd has been super supportive and hard to beat...


Meet the beginning of the Targa Truck.

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Most of the work will done by myself, with exception of serious fabrication work. This garage is at my parents' house - this is where I originally built it when I was a kid - painted it here too. This Targa upgrade will be done in my home garage, which is far less nice...

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The current interior is very simple. A couple of seats out of a Benz, a custom stick to get around the baby seat. Done. This will all be changing as I have to fully 'cage the truck.

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And the crown jewel. My LSX race block based 427, AFR heads, Callies rotating, Big stuff 3, etc, etc. Its backed by a t56 Magnum and a Spec 3+ clutch. Its crazy, crazy fun. This I did not build, its capable of 8000 rpm, but the current cam is built for torque and runs out of steam in the 7000 rpm area. It pulls like a freight train at any rpm.

Due to timing I have to do this build in two phases.

I have hired Ron Sutton to advise the project, both Phases and for Phase 2. I have been working/designing with an amazing fabricator, but have not inked that deal yet. More to come.

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Phase 1 for September 2014
- upgrade the brakes
- brake cooling
- upgrade the shocks
- new wheels and tires
- 6 or 8 point cage - design and fab
- fire system
- new race seats
- 5 or 6 point racing harnesses
- track time practicing

Phase 2 will be a complete chassis for spring/summer 2015
This has been in development for a couple months with Ron Sutton and a fabricator/chassis designer. My plan was to complete it for this year, but that will just not work from either a timing or financial standpoint. More to come on this. The basic plan is a monster custom chassis as this thing is a long bed, 18/315s all the way around, engine set-back, etc, etc. Something that will withstand everything from daily driving in city rush hour to a 5500 mile round trip with a 1400 road race in the middle, like the Targa Newfoundland.

Throughout the build, feel free to ask questions. Some of what Im doing will be great for your trucks, some of the stuff will be purely race safety kinda stuff.

The truck will remain a street vehicle, one that goes like hell, stops and turns. And yes, the baby seat stays too. I plan on making this build fun and ideally, informative. Cool?

In addition to this build thread, I am going to start a thread on preparing for the Targa Newfoundland. I know many have an interest in doing it, as it's a bucket list kinda deal. I'm going to share my experience openly, because the more of us out there racing - the better.

bovey

rentedmule
04-21-2014, 03:42 AM
Awesome! I lived in NFLD for years and watched the first few Targa races while I was there. I'm sure the truck will get a lot of attention and it sounds like it's going to be a beast. Looking forward to following the build.

raustinss
04-21-2014, 05:06 AM
You newfies are crazy *******s,swear like truckers,fish like captain highliner and , I love ya lol sounds like a awesome project. I love the idea of the baby seat too

jerome
04-21-2014, 07:25 AM
Cool project. Not to dissuade you, I think it's awesome to do this, but watch "Love the Beast" before you go. It's a great car movie, and applicable to your current situation.

Ron Sutton
04-21-2014, 09:36 AM
Hey Mark,

I'm looking forward to working with you on your new truck chassis which will be a killer for next year's event ... and helping improve your current truck to perform as best it can in this year's event.

For your current truck, I'm suggesting better shocks & brakes. To keep the cost in line, let's go with Wilwood D52 floating calipers up front in place of your cast iron GM calipers. Then, let's upgrade the pads from BP-10's to Wilwood's BP-20's. That will increase your braking force enough to make a significant improvement. See the chart below.

I feel your current braking torque is less than optimum, especially for the 295 tires you're planning to run. If your master cylinder needs replacing, you could go with option #1 and switch to a 7/8" M/C & leave the pedal ratio alone. You said your brake pedal is 14" long from pivot center to center of foot pad ... and the dimension to the M/C rod clevis is 2.5". That works out to a 5.6-1 pedal ratio.

If the M/C does NOT need replacing, save some money & simply increase the pedal ratio. If you drill a hole for the M/C rod at 2" from the pivot 91/2" above the current hole CL-to-CL) ... that will change the pedal ratio from 5.6-1 to 7-1 as shown in Option #2. That
would be my preference.


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Ron Sutton
04-21-2014, 09:40 AM
Mark,

As far as the shocks go, since you're staying bolt-on, non-coil overs on the current upgrade, I'd suggest Ridetech's single adjustable HQ's, but let's custom valve them with a "little" stiffer rebound & digressive valving curve in the rear & a "lot" more rebound with a digressive valving curve in the front.

This will help grip up all 4 tires up on autocross & road course track days. And it will provide much more high speed stability for the Targa event. Make sense ?

snopro
04-22-2014, 10:08 AM
Im so jealous mark, I hope to run my truck in targa newfoundland one day too, maybe by then we will have our own truck class lol.

protouring70
04-22-2014, 04:09 PM
I'm keeping a close eye on this one!!

bovey
04-22-2014, 04:43 PM
Cool project. Not to dissuade you, I think it's awesome to do this, but watch "Love the Beast" before you go. It's a great car movie, and applicable to your current situation.

Yes, I actually hosted a viewing party for Love the Beast when I came out. We have huge discussions on this very point. Some said they'd never do it, I personally was a little on the fence at the time. I did find it a little odd that Eric needed the push from Jay Leno to rebuild the car. The first thing I thought when it was laying in the trees was, get it in a shop and rebuild.

Here's the thing. I've owned this truck for many years, I've drag raced it and land speed raced it. It has seen both coasts of Canada and the USA. I have personally put 160 000 miles on this truck. 3 engines. 4 transmissions more tires than I can count. It has been graffitied once and rear-ended twice. I've totally lost count of stone chips and scratches. It evolves and it breaks and wears out time and time again.

5 years ago would I put it in such harms way? Maybe not. But I am now married with a 21 month old son. Life speeds up and I spend less time driving and working on this truck, the very thing that keeps me calm - it's my golf if you will. I am not a car show guy, I build my stuff to go fast and haul ___ at all times. No trailer either, it has to be tough - which has been a huge amount of the conversation I have had with Ron Sutton. And lastly, I've noticed that as people grow older with their cars they've had for a long time, the car sits in the garage and collects dust. No. Thank. You. It's a truck, it's only worth something to me, and it's worthless unless I use it.

This year posed an odd chance for me to do a race like this, I kinda have the time and kinda have the money (less so). The Targa Newfoundland was looking for a truck to be the first truck to run. I figured that combo wouldn't happen again. So I pulled the trigger.

I do thank you for your concern, I do think about those "what ifs" and had a huge conversation with my fab shop, who will be installing the 8-point roll cage in 2 weeks time to keep me safe.

bovey
04-22-2014, 04:45 PM
A good news story.

Hey Ron, thanks again for everything this far. It has been awesome to work with you.

I had to order my parts online, in the end from both Summit and Jegs. Normally, I'm a shop local kinda guy. But it just did not work this time.

Anyway, both shipments where super fast. But someone went above and beyond at FedEx. A guy named "George" noticed I had a box for pick-up as my other box was going out for delivery. When he saw were the boxes came from he figured I was building a "race car" and gave me a call. He saved me a trip and a couple extra days of waiting.

So...
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Installation starts tomorrow, so long as my son recovers from his illness.

bovey
04-22-2014, 04:48 PM
Hey! They are super keen for more trucks. Actually, they sent me a note a couple weeks ago to let me know that the truck is one of the most anticipated entries they have ever had. Everyone is super excited to see a truck go fast.

bovey
04-22-2014, 04:54 PM
You newfies are crazy *******s,swear like truckers,fish like captain highliner and , I love ya lol sounds like a awesome project. I love the idea of the baby seat too

Here, hope you enjoy this. A nice family drive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajCzgXH8DZc

jerome
04-23-2014, 07:29 AM
Very cool build. Looking forward to updates, especially with the graphic design / artistic element that you're bringing to the table.

Sounds like you have quite the history with the truck. Are you running a stock front spindle and truckarm rear suspension?

bovey
04-23-2014, 06:51 PM
Very cool build. Looking forward to updates, especially with the graphic design / artistic element that you're bringing to the table.

Sounds like you have quite the history with the truck. Are you running a stock front spindle and truckarm rear suspension?

Thanks. I'm going to have fun with this. And yes, I have a big history with this truck and plan on making it bigger.

I run a CPP front spindle, drop coils and a CCP sway bar. Which I discovered tonight has been hitting the steering linkage. Joy.

Rear is a bone stock truck arm with 4" drop coils, 2" blocks and ECE shock relocates and a CCP pan hard bar.

bovey
04-23-2014, 06:57 PM
Quick update. Tore everything apart tonight and am figuring out how to run ducts to cool the brakes.

Did a quick mock-up of the D52s to make sure all the bolts were right and everything moved correctly. It does. If you pop back to Ron's numbers, this upgrade is about effectiveness (cost too), not sexiness. Hello stock rotors.

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And as I tear everything apart, I remember how everything was shiny and new as I notice all the dirt, and grease, and grim... I take a time to:

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I love form, but function wins. Because race truck. More soon.

Jetfixr320
04-26-2014, 05:22 PM
Awesome! Great video also. :)

Good Luck and will be watching your progress.

Also, How is the car seat mounted? No rear seat in my Falcon at this time.

raustinss
04-27-2014, 05:40 AM
That's awesome love the video. Kids are the best. If you ever decide to swing thru ontario im a hour and change from Toronto (southwest) dinner and drinks on me

rustomatic
04-27-2014, 05:28 PM
I like it!

bovey
04-28-2014, 05:24 AM
Also, How is the car seat mounted? No rear seat in my Falcon at this time.

I'll find the pics and post them. I built a custom mount and use an Orbit Baby car seat - they are amazing. Great design. Pricey, but worth it.



If you ever decide to swing thru ontario im a hour and change from Toronto (southwest) dinner and drinks on me

Deal. I'm through Ontario a lot. I'll be track dating this thing all over the place this year from Grand Bend to CTMP. I'm not a car show guy, but plan on doing a few - Toronto, Kitchener and London area.


Also, more updates coming soon. Had some issues with the brakes AND I was an instructor in a Performance Driving School all week-end. Time has been totally crushed. Phew.

keithq69
04-28-2014, 05:01 PM
Looking good Mark.
I didn't realize you were instructing this weekend.
Did you get a chance to ride in the AMG during one of his spins?

raustinss
04-28-2014, 06:38 PM
Look forward to seeing your truck when your this way. In the heart of kitchener-waterloo. Pm me or email me with the details as to when you'll be here. In the mean time take care

bovey
04-28-2014, 08:06 PM
Looking good Mark.
I didn't realize you were instructing this weekend.
Did you get a chance to ride in the AMG during one of his spins?

Yeah, I was a junior instructor this week-end. It was a great experience helping people get better. However, it was tricky when you had to start figuring out each cars characteristics AND give driver feedback - the trail braking lesson was exhausting. And sadly, I did not get a ride in the AMG - it was always in the other group.

James OLC
04-29-2014, 07:38 AM
Thanks for posting the build thread - this should be a blast to watch.

What class will you be running at Targa? We're on the fence about making a run this year and it's just about time to crap or get off the pot...

bovey
04-29-2014, 04:34 PM
Thanks for posting the build thread - this should be a blast to watch.

What class will you be running at Targa? We're on the fence about making a run this year and it's just about time to crap or get off the pot...

My pleasure. It's fun. When I first built the truck, there were no "build threads" and on top of that most people didn't have computers, or cell phones... lol.

I plan on running the Targa Classic division. However, my engine combo may put me in the Open Class. Either way the build is the same and so it the goal - to finish. This is a monster of a competition.

As for this year, or next year, or the next year. There is never a perfect time, I look at this like having a child, you're never really ready - you just do it. Come on, let's go!

bovey
04-29-2014, 06:13 PM
Sorry for radio silence. The brakes did not go as smoothly as planned and as mentioned, I was helping with a Performance Driving Clinic. Fun week-end, sadly no truck...

The brakes are on and done. Doing this conversion is no different than any other brake job. It's easy. Please refer to Ron's chart earlier in this thread for the mathematics of these parts.

The Wilwood part numbers you need are (71-72):

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1 - Brake line kit (as long as you need 22" lines) 220-11719
2 - factory rotors
3 - Bolt Kit 230-0619 (pkg of 4)
4 - Front brake pads: 150-9421K
5 - Calipers 120-10936-BK - Qty 2

As mentioned I ran into a few issues:

1) My outer bearings were toast after last years racing.

2) My front brake line fittings were tight and i ended up deforming one during the tear down. More on that in a moment.

3) the Wilwood frame union is not made for a thick truck frame, I had to grind the frame a bit for them to fit. I'd reco getting a -3AN/7/16th screw in union to avoid this.

Time evaporated, and it took hours longer than expected to get the old stuff apart - this truck always comes apart easy. But then I recalled that my dad and I did these brakes 24 years ago...

To save time, I picked up a new set of rotors and bearings, they were cheap and I needed to get time back on my side.

Around 11:30 Saturday night I went for a Midnight test run. Very fun. Everything seems to be working great. Then I checked for leaks. One fitting. ONE. Was leaking. I worked on it for a couple hours before doing something I hate - admitting defeat. Annoyed, I went to bed as I needed to be up in 4 hours to return to my duties as an instructor. Even a small leak is not safe when your are tossing something around this big and this fast.

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There is an upside. When others heard of my misfortune they let me drive their cars. A '79 TA and a special edition 03" Miata. FUN. Waayyyy different from a longbed GM truck. No surprise.

At the moment, the truck is having it's engine primped for the week-end. It needed some regular maintenance like new valve springs, retainers, etc. It's just something you have to do with heavy duty street engine. Dropping a valve due to a fatigued spring is an expensive lesson I hope to avoid.

Otherwise, the brakes are sorted. New custom valved Ride Tech shocks are arriving tomorrow and it goes in for a 'cage next week. I choose a race seat.

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These are Momo Daytona Evos, they were made for me (feel great), even with a helmet on and my shoulders are in a good position for the harness holes. However, I do plan on getting more streetable that I can swap out. I may put this on the passenger side and get a less racey version so I can swap them from side-to-side for track and autoXing.

snopro
04-30-2014, 05:41 AM
Looking good, Love that seat looks very comfortable. Are you taking the truck to any events this weekend?

bovey
05-01-2014, 06:20 AM
Looking good, Love that seat looks very comfortable. Are you taking the truck to any events this weekend?

Yes, I am doing an Ontario Time Attack driving school this week-end on the new DDT at CTMP. Very excited, and a bit nervous. Some of my fellow students will be full out race cars, like BMWs, Lotuses, etc. Loads of trailers... I'll brace myself for the usual comments when I pull in. If I had a dollar for every time I heard "you're racing a tow vehicle"?

Here is a ariel video of the new track - FIA approved design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Cz9dqfpbk&sns=fb

Did some fab work late last night, full update to follow. Any guesses?

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snopro
05-01-2014, 09:48 AM
Im going to try and make it over there this weekend to check out the festivities. Hopefully it will be the kick in the A$$ that I need to get my truck rolling again :)

bovey
05-03-2014, 08:14 PM
Well, as usual it's been a mad thrash to get ready for a track week-end. Someday I going to nail it, so I'm not up until 2AM the night before. Being tired and trying to hit your marks is a bad combo.

Due to the chaos, I'm a little behind with mods. But basically, the brake package and shocks Ron Sutton Designed are on. Thus far, very happy. Changing the brake pedal ratio is amazing. We were running in the rain today and I was honestly shocked at who well this thing pulled down. The shocks are a custom tuned single adjustable Ride Tech HQ that Ron spec'd. I need more track time to play, but they are much better at this point.

After 3 30 minute track sessions and 3 30 minute driving tech lessons in the rain, the truck is a total disaster. There is dirt everywhere. Too bad today's spring rain did not come a bit sooner.

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Back to the track tomorrow.

bovey
05-05-2014, 07:27 PM
So Day 2 went way better than day 1. I found out that part of the exercise for day 1 is to overload the student with info to mess with them. Great. It worked...

However, after a good nights rest we hit the track again. My first session went well, on day one I did not catch anyone in my run group, but during my first session I caught unto a FRS. It felt good. The truck was working great - Ron's Sutton's brake suggestions were working awesome. The truck was hooking.

In my second and third sessions - things started to come together and this happened.

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I had passed a BMW and a Lotus Evora and then a saw the Ferrari 458 in the distance. And then I caught it. I was totally apprehensive about getting to close to it. Then my instructor said: "OMG - the Ferrari is slowing you down - crawl up his @$$."

I said: "WHAT?!?!"

He said: Go, this thing is hooking hard.

So I did, and boy did it feel good when he waved me by.

The best part? I caught him again in 3rd run group. This time he took chase. His instructor found me later to tell me they couldn't catch me. A satisfying day. Obviously, with more training this guy will kill me with a car like that, but man - talk about going from zero to hero with the crowd watching.

In the end, the truck was amazing. Due to the intensity of the day, I had zero time to dial in the Ride Tech Shocks Ron Sutton had made for me. I'm not sure what black magic he did, but the truck is holds like crazy in the corners.

Here are a few photos. They are just their single adjustable HQs with a custom rebound curve for how I use my truck.

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srh3trinity
05-05-2014, 10:51 PM
Cool build and chasing down a 458 has to be an awesome feeling.

protouring70
05-05-2014, 10:54 PM
Awesome!!!!
I would love to have seen that. I have heard nothing but great things about their shocks.

snopro
05-06-2014, 08:20 AM
Hey Mark, what info did you have to give ron for the shocks? Im wondering because its soon time for me to buy shocks and because of what my truck is I dont really have a clue what to get lol. Thats awesome how much fun you are having out there. Thats what it is all about.

Cheers
Chris

bovey
05-06-2014, 11:33 AM
Hey Mark, what info did you have to give ron for the shocks? Im wondering because its soon time for me to buy shocks and because of what my truck is I dont really have a clue what to get lol.

Ron has been an invaluable part of the equation in my truck. As I'm doing a long box, most people say cut it into a short box, then we can talk. Well, no. That's not going to happen.

When I hired Ron, I sent him a long list of vehicle and usage information. From there he worked with Ride Tech and build the shocks, Ride Tech shipped them directly to me. My advice would be to PM Ron and mention you've seen my thread (so he has a point of reference) and he'll send you a fee schedule, don't worry it's very robust and fair depending on what you need. Once you decide the services you like from him, he need information from you to design what you need for your truck, your use.

Or you can go to Ride Tech directly. However, as Ron can look at your build as a whole - I'd start there. As of this week-end the suggestions he'd made my truck's ability exceeds my talent. I am so looking forward to catching up, my next driving school is in 3 weeks.

Give'r.

jerome
05-06-2014, 12:05 PM
What's your take on the long wheelbase effects on autocross, road course, and street comfort? My S10 is also a regular cab longbed, with wheelbase at 118". My understanding is that this is certainly a disadvantage (versus a shorter wheelbase) for autocross, and probably not a big issue for road courses. The only other issue I ran into was a long driveshaft that ended up requiring carbon fiber to get me to acceptable critical RPMs for use with 4.10 gears.

From wikipedia, it looks like your wheelbase is 127", so I would think you also ran into a driveshaft issue. I'm curious how you solved it and whether you have any points of reference from autocross or track days with shorter wheelbase vehicles.

snopro
05-06-2014, 12:19 PM
Thanks mark, im in the middle of reading some of rons technical posts on suspension so once I think I have a decent understanding and my truck is back on its wheels I will get corner weights and hire him to help me out with alignment, spring rates and shocks hopefully.

bovey
05-06-2014, 09:50 PM
Jerome - I'll reply soon. I have an opinion on that. Kinda hoping some of the pros see your question and jump in.

It's late. Work has been crazy this week. However, the interior is mostly gutted to start the 'Cage fab work tomorrow. I'm getting pros do do this as safety stuff needs to be done by accomplished fabricators.

It feels like I just put the Benz seats in, but their time is up after 2ish years. Never imagined I'd be going to full containment race seats, but there it is. And after my track day on Sunday - I need seats the tie me safely. I was bending my steering wheel holding myself in place. Still have to sort out harnesses.

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keithq69
05-07-2014, 04:12 AM
Sounds like you had a great weekend.
Can't wait to try that course in my car.
I heard good things about the truck from Barry and Miles this weekend.
Look forward to seeing the progression.
You'll have to swing by my place with the truck when you have time and check out my project. Barry's car is here for a bit too for some more work on the trailer.

Keith.

Ron Sutton
05-08-2014, 11:04 AM
So Day 2 went way better than day 1. I found out that part of the exercise for day 1 is to overload the student with info to mess with them. Great. It worked...

However, after a good nights rest we hit the track again. My first session went well, on day one I did not catch anyone in my run group, but during my first session I caught unto a FRS. It felt good. The truck was working great - Ron's Sutton's brake suggestions were working awesome. The truck was hooking.

In my second and third sessions - things started to come together and this happened.

95170

I had passed a BMW and a Lotus Evora and then a saw the Ferrari 458 in the distance. And then I caught it. I was totally apprehensive about getting to close to it. Then my instructor said: "OMG - the Ferrari is slowing you down - crawl up his @$$."

I said: "WHAT?!?!"

He said: Go, this thing is hooking hard.

So I did, and boy did it feel good when he waved me by.

The best part? I caught him again in 3rd run group. This time he took chase. His instructor found me later to tell me they couldn't catch me. A satisfying day. Obviously, with more training this guy will kill me with a car like that, but man - talk about going from zero to hero with the crowd watching.

In the end, the truck was amazing. Due to the intensity of the day, I had zero time to dial in the Ride Tech Shocks Ron Sutton had made for me. I'm not sure what black magic he did, but the truck is holds like crazy in the corners.

Here are a few photos. They are just their single adjustable HQs with a custom rebound curve for how I use my truck.

95171


Hey Guys,

What we did on Mark's brakes was simply work out the math to insure he had both a balanced brake system and flat out more braking power. Mark already had aluminum calipers in the rear. We went with a simple bolt on GM replacement floating billet aluminum caliper from Wilwood ... with large piston area. The big braking gains were in pedal ratio & pad compound. My role is to make sure the braking is balanced front to rear ... and matched to the tires we have. (Too much can be as bad for performance & safety as too little.)

On the shocks, I have feel in love with the design & quality of the Ridetech shock line. Off the shelf, they are an excellent performance street shock balancing ride & handling. For my clients, I design more aggressive shock valving curves that utilize more low speed rebound for increased grip & control .... combined with a sharp digressive curve so it doesn't lose grip over uneven surfaces. A friend Ron Myers nicknamed my valving curves "secret sauce". For autocross & track driven cars, how I valve the fronts helps the vehicle turn better in the middle. How I design the rear valving increases rear tire grip on entry & exit. Basically, we're increasing grip on the tires that need it ... when they need it.

Mark's single rebound adjustable shocks are a good package to help his truck in its current state to perform moderately better. But when we pull his new chassis package together with triple adjustable Ridetechs, the valving curves will be much "meaner" ... with what I call "High zero number" valving ... for superior track & autocross handling. And for the street, the rebound can be dialed back to provide nice ride quality.

:cheers:

Ron Sutton
05-08-2014, 11:08 AM
Hey Mark, what info did you have to give ron for the shocks? Im wondering because its soon time for me to buy shocks and because of what my truck is I dont really have a clue what to get lol. Thats awesome how much fun you are having out there. Thats what it is all about.

Cheers
Chris

Hi Chris,

I need to know a lot of details about the vehicle that range from specs to current feel to goals. In Mark's case, he had a pretty balanced truck, we just wanted more grip. Grip is cornering speed, control & safety.


:twothumbs

Ron Sutton
05-08-2014, 11:26 AM
What's your take on the long wheelbase effects on autocross, road course, and street comfort? My S10 is also a regular cab longbed, with wheelbase at 118". My understanding is that this is certainly a disadvantage (versus a shorter wheelbase) for autocross, and probably not a big issue for road courses. The only other issue I ran into was a long driveshaft that ended up requiring carbon fiber to get me to acceptable critical RPMs for use with 4.10 gears.

From wikipedia, it looks like your wheelbase is 127", so I would think you also ran into a driveshaft issue. I'm curious how you solved it and whether you have any points of reference from autocross or track days with shorter wheelbase vehicles.

Hi Jerome,

When Mark & I started working on his truck design package, I asked him if there were any "sacred cows" ... and one of them was the long bed & therefore the long wheelbase. Does it present a challenge? Sure it does. In the two columns of "advantage versus disadvantage" it puts a check mark in the disadvantage column. But we're building cool, unique, individualized vehicles here ... which is what is fun ... or we'll all be building F1 cars.

I told Mark, "no worries. We'll just build some rear steer tunability into the 4-link."

So when Mark's new truck chassis is being built, the lower 4-link bars will be adjustable for neutral rear steer, positive rear steer & negative rear steer. For high speed runs & road courses the truck will be set for neutral rear steer ... or negative rear steer which actually increases rear tire grip as the truck rolls to its max roll angle. If Mark decides to take it drag racing, setting it for negative rear steer helps the launch.

For street driving ... frankly he can leave it where ever as long as the speeds aren't high. But setting them neutral is usually best. When driven hard, at or near the limits of tire grip ... all vehicles have rear steer due to the tire slip angle. This can vary from 5 to 9 depending on tires. For autocross, Mark can adjust the lower links up in the front to add whatever degree of additional rear steer he finds works best.

None of this makes the truck shorter. You still have to get it through the cones. But you can make the truck turn better, by making the rear have more rear steer angle. (Think fork lift).

:cheers:

Ron Sutton
05-08-2014, 11:27 AM
Jerome - I'll reply soon. I have an opinion on that. Kinda hoping some of the pros see your question and jump in.

It's late. Work has been crazy this week. However, the interior is mostly gutted to start the 'Cage fab work tomorrow. I'm getting pros do do this as safety stuff needs to be done by accomplished fabricators.

It feels like I just put the Benz seats in, but their time is up after 2ish years. Never imagined I'd be going to full containment race seats, but there it is. And after my track day on Sunday - I need seats the tie me safely. I was bending my steering wheel holding myself in place. Still have to sort out harnesses.

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Nice ... safer ... seats. Good call.

bovey
05-12-2014, 09:25 AM
What's your take on the long wheelbase effects on autocross, road course, and street comfort? My S10 is also a regular cab longbed, with wheelbase at 118". My understanding is that this is certainly a disadvantage (versus a shorter wheelbase) for autocross, and probably not a big issue for road courses. The only other issue I ran into was a long driveshaft that ended up requiring carbon fiber to get me to acceptable critical RPMs for use with 4.10 gears.

From wikipedia, it looks like your wheelbase is 127", so I would think you also ran into a driveshaft issue. I'm curious how you solved it and whether you have any points of reference from autocross or track days with shorter wheelbase vehicles.


First. Thanks Ron for giving an opinion on this.

Here is my 2 cents.

A long wheelbase for autocross is less than ideal - I race with Miatas, S2000s etc and the tracks are tight. I have to take completely different lines to squeeze my way through. Crazy, crazy fun - but it's a massive uphill battle to be competitive. I'm doing this for fun, so I don't care about being #1. But I have every plan on putting up a good fight, again for fun.

The biggest thing with autoXing a long wheelbase is trusting and using your peripheral vision. I have to wait for the cones to blip out of my vision before turning or I'll clip the cones. It took me a while to figure this out - but I do have far less cone scuffs on box around the rear wheels now.

On the track, it's stable. I do have to watch my lines a bit. I haven't experienced anything that I'd call a drawback, even the weight didn't really seem like a big deal - 600HP make the truck do what I want. Again, it's stable, dives into corners better than you'd ever imagine.

On the street it rides fine - it's a truck, it rides better than it once did and with the new RideTech shocks - I like it even more.

As for the driveshaft - I have a 1 piece chromolly 4" drive shaft that I spin to huge rpm without issue. Just have a a good shop make it and don't skip on the u-joints. I also had to be very careful with pinion angle AND be mindful of clearancing the centre frame cross member. I have had some issues with parts touching that I never imagined could touch.

My biggest comment on building an untypical car/truck would be:

--- What do you want out of this?

Do you want to win?
--- Build something more common and has the proper proportions and CG.

Do you love the truck and want to race it?
---This is my camp - do whatever you want. People told me it would not work, but I proved them wrong long ago.

Do you have loads of money and/or time?
--- Build whatever you want.

Do you have limited funds and/or time?
--- Build something more common. There is nothing wrong with building a common car, it's cheaper and easier.

Build process vs. track time.
--- If you are the type of person who loves to bench race and build, so be it have at it. I'm not that guy, I hammer on my builds to spend as little time in the garage and as much time on the track.

In reality, figure out what you want out of the truck/racing - do that. Think before you build. Time and money go by quickly, so be sure.

Fair?

bovey
05-15-2014, 04:59 AM
The truck is mid-fabrication at the chassis shop. Going for a fitting tomorrow. Again, this is something I do not have the talent to do, and it needs to be safe. Fortunately, I have a great shop on the case who are efficient and fair priced.

One of the purchases I was on the fence about was wheels. I pulled the trigger on some NewGen wheels. Jon has been great and I love that he changes the design to suit you use, putting a bit more material is stressed areas of the wheel.

However, out of all the things I have to do - the colour of the wheels was hard for me to pick. I know, dumb. But I was a designer for years, so stuff like this kinda bugs me when it's wrong. So, I hired someone to do a few quick comps. Totally worth it. These are rough, just to pick a wheel colour. FYI - the wheels are 18x10 with 295/35s Rivals (planned tire)

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I do like the murdered out look, but that doesn't suit me personally. Oddly, I love the goldy/bronze/tan colour. It's almost impossible to be original with this year of truck, but this does make me happy.

And it will not be this low with my current set-up, it looks more [email protected] than expected.

Ron Sutton
05-15-2014, 05:28 AM
Cool. How long until the cage is in ?

bovey
05-15-2014, 05:36 AM
Cool. How long until the cage is in ?

I'll have progress photos tomorrow. I'm going to visit tomorrow. Should be done next week. Aiming to hit the track on the 24th.

brawls43
05-15-2014, 08:52 AM
So you're going with #7? I think that's the look I like best too, personally. Polished lip just doesn't fit the look. And murdered out, meh. Always looks good, but done lots.

jimi_cat
05-15-2014, 09:48 AM
seem many a flat tire in nfld. cause usually being broken road ,potholes ,apexing country road corners etc. may want to consider more side wall . although saying that i ran 35"s on my vette with no issues

snopro
05-15-2014, 10:50 AM
They all look so good, how does one choose lol. I like the look of #1 though.

bovey
05-17-2014, 04:32 AM
So you're going with #7? I think that's the look I like best too, personally. Polished lip just doesn't fit the look. And murdered out, meh. Always looks good, but done lots.

Thanks! I'm liking #7 too. 2 I like, because it tied in the little chrome I have left. Will share the final result when they come in! Gotta have a little suspense here and there.


seem many a flat tire in nfld. cause usually being broken road ,potholes ,apexing country road corners etc. may want to consider more side wall . although saying that i ran 35"s on my vette with no issues

Yes, I've heard many stories about people having to harsh of a suspension set-up or low profile tires. I'm going to start with 35s, and if they fit fine I may step up to a 40 series for the race - just to play safe.


They all look so good, how does one choose lol. I like the look of #1 though.
Thanks! #1 is cool - but I'm not sure how long it would be before I'm tired of that look.

More to come! I was out getting my seat fitted and checking out the roll cage progress yesterday. It looks awesome.

keithq69
05-17-2014, 11:48 AM
Hope the fitting went well.
Did you get any pictures you want to share or are you holding off for more progress?

srh3trinity
05-17-2014, 04:53 PM
I like a bronze look wheel too.

bovey
05-19-2014, 05:11 AM
Roll Cage Progress.

It's not done, but everything looks great.

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Fortunately, it wasn't to hard to make the cage work for both my Targa Newfoundland tech and my ECTA Land Speed Racing tech. I was going to do fancier door bars. But the opening is small enough that a diagonal bar is best. It also leave expansion room should I need to "x" it in the future.

Went out to test fit seats. Everything barely fits. Make sure you measure race seats, I did and it's still tight. Of course you may not need to incorporate a child's seat seat. But most race seats are around 21-24" wide, they are bigger than you think. These trucks are 65" door to door. Add a Roll Cage. Some room to move and boom - no space in the middle.

95906

Have had to work with tech, like a lot. With the truck being heavier, they wanted larger bar and gussets. We are still in discussions about gussets - they want them on the rear main hoop for added role over protection. No biggie. We just have to do it. The Corbeau Seats are my street seats. We are making mounts for swapping out the Momo Containments seats for track days.

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95904
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The floor is padded with 6"x6" steel plate sandwich both top and bottom. It's bolted together so I can pull the body off when I do Phase 2 with Ron Sutton and my chassis builder. The pads on the bottom are tied directly to the frame.

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My little guy seems to like the new jungle gym. Overall, very happy. The guys have build it so it can be added too as I further the build. Eventually, it will reach into the engine bay and I'll put a couple extra bars in the bed for rigidity.

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More soon.

keithq69
05-19-2014, 06:45 PM
Looks great Mark.
When's the next track day?

snopro
05-20-2014, 03:57 AM
does tech not require any door bars?
Looks great, clean welds, did your fabricator TIG it all?

jerome
05-20-2014, 12:02 PM
Hi Jerome,

So when Mark's new truck chassis is being built, the lower 4-link bars will be adjustable for neutral rear steer, positive rear steer & negative rear steer. For high speed runs & road courses the truck will be set for neutral rear steer ... or negative rear steer which actually increases rear tire grip as the truck rolls to its max roll angle. If Mark decides to take it drag racing, setting it for negative rear steer helps the launch.

For street driving ... frankly he can leave it where ever as long as the speeds aren't high. But setting them neutral is usually best. When driven hard, at or near the limits of tire grip ... all vehicles have rear steer due to the tire slip angle. This can vary from 5 to 9 depending on tires. For autocross, Mark can adjust the lower links up in the front to add whatever degree of additional rear steer he finds works best.

None of this makes the truck shorter. You still have to get it through the cones. But you can make the truck turn better, by making the rear have more rear steer angle. (Think fork lift).


Ron and Mark,

Thanks for the thoughtful comments on wheelbase. Any consideration for a 3-link with converging lower links and a watts link or panhard bar? That would allow you to adjust roll steer somewhat independently of anti-squat. Roll steer axis determined by the line drawn between the watts/panhard height and the height of the lower link convergence point in side view. Anti-squat determined same as 4-link. Instead of a 4 link where increasing antisquat (angling lower bars up towards chassis) necessarily increases roll oversteer, a 3 link would let you change the roll steer axis to always have neutral steer by setting the lateral location device height at the same height as the convergence point of the lower links.

In any event, your comments were very helpful for my own build, as I had not thought about setting up the chassis for roll oversteer for autocross to get the effective wheelbase shorter. I'll have to make sure I have enough holes in the brackets to do that.

Jerome

Ron Sutton
05-20-2014, 02:24 PM
Nice cage Mark !


:twothumbs

Ron Sutton
05-20-2014, 03:14 PM
Hi Jerome,


Ron and Mark,

Thanks for the thoughtful comments on wheelbase.
You're welcome. I've had to race long wheelbase cars many times.

Any consideration for a 3-link with converging lower links and a watts link or panhard bar?
Did I consider a 3-link? Yes. For road course, autocross & even oval track, an offset 3-link is the best rear suspension design for a solid axle car (or truck).

My preferred design is the offset 3-link because of the zero torque steer & great tunability. The only concern with a 3-link is all the "lift & pull" forces put on that single top link. For Mark's goal of running his somewhat heavy truck in the Targa, my concern was durability with a 3-link. A four link splits the forces & loads in two, effectively doubling the strength-to-force ratio of the upper link(s).

The two primary draw backs of the 4-link, in comparison to the 3-link are:
A. The 4-link will bind at a lower angle of housing articulation than a 3-link.
B. Typically, you're building a 4-link symmetrical, so you do have have 6-12% torque steer under hard acceleration, just like with a centered 3-link. Only an offset 3-link neutralizes the torque steer with no side effects.

All suspension designs have issues, or cons, if you will. You have to decide what your priorities are & where to make sacrifices. In consideration of these issues (A&B) ... the evaluation went like this:
A. Since Mark's new chassis will run a modern high-travel/low-roll suspension strategy ... the rear suspension will never come close to the articulation limits, so any chance of bind is nil.
B. Purely a choice of prioritizing safety over dealing with about 9% torque steer (typical for 9" Ford).

As far as considering a converging 3-link? No ... because the lower converging links cause positive rear steer that can not be simply tuned out. When you run the lower links parallel to the chassis, you have the options of ...
1. Running the lower links uphill (going forward) for positive rear steer.
2. Running the lower links level for neutral rear steer.
3. Running the lower links downhill (going forward) for negative rear steer.

Mark is going to run this truck at a lot of different venues. For autocross, positive rear steer will help the truck turn better. But for road courses with high speed corners, positive rear steer is dangerous ... because the faster you go the more it loosens up the rear end ... and therefore is not desired. For road courses, you want to run either neutral or negative rear steer. Negative rear steer actually adds grip to the rear tires on high speed corners.

With the converging 3-link, you always have rear steer ... unless ... and there is always an "unless or exception" ... unless you lower the front pivot points down super low. But that messes up the instant center location & anti-squat percentage. So I do not utilize, nor recommend, converging 3-link designs unless it is a dedicated autocross vehicle. Even then I don't use that design, because I create the same rear steer as a converging 3-link ... by simply adjusting the angle of the lower links on a parallel 3-link or 4-link.

That would allow you to adjust roll steer somewhat independently of anti-squat.
That's not accurate.

Roll steer axis determined by the line drawn between the watts/panhard height and the height of the lower link convergence point in side view. Anti-squat determined same as 4-link. Instead of a 4 link where increasing antisquat (angling lower bars up towards chassis) necessarily increases roll oversteer
We don't typically adjust the anti-squat of 3-links & 4-links with the lower bars. We use the lower links to define the degree of rear steer ... and adjust the upper link angles to define the instant center location & anti-squat percentage. There is MUCH more to the traction equation than anti-squat percentage. In fact it is only 1 of a dozen tuning items to the rear suspension geometry. But I leave it at that unless someone wants to understand rear suspension dynamics better.

, a 3 link would let you change the roll steer axis to always have neutral steer by setting the lateral location device height at the same height as the convergence point of the lower links.
That's not exactly accurate, but more importantly, we need the lateral location device ... watts link or panhard bar ... to define the roll center for tire loading purposes. You need it to be adjustable ... as a tuning device to balance the car (or truck's) handling to be neutral ... without any concern of affecting roll steer. Having the Watt's link or panhard bar adjustable is one the best track tuning tools.

In any event, your comments were very helpful for my own build
Cool.

, as I had not thought about setting up the chassis for roll oversteer for autocross to get the effective wheelbase shorter. I'll have to make sure I have enough holes in the brackets to do that.
Cool. Let us know how it goes.

Jerome

Thanks for chiming in Jerome ! :cheers:

jerome
05-20-2014, 03:58 PM
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/12/3linkJPG-1.jpg

From Race Car Vehicle Dynamics: the roll axis is defined by the convergence point of the lower links and the lateral location device.

Ron Sutton
05-20-2014, 04:42 PM
I think you may be confusing roll axis with roll steer (rear steer). The roll axis (the pivot points & resulting pivot angle) defines how the rear end housing will articulate in the chassis during body roll from cornering g-forces. Roll steer is the relation of the left rear & right axle/hub centerlines (or tire tread centerline) as the housing articulates in the chassis.

As the body rolls during cornering, if the outside tire CL moves rearward (effectively lengthening the wheelbase on that side) ... and the inside tire CL moves forward (effectively shortening the wheelbase on that side) ... that is positive rear steer ... as both rear tires are angled toward the outside of the corner (relative to the chassis CL).

As the body rolls during cornering, if the outside tire CL moves forward (effectively shortening the wheelbase on that side) ... and the inside tire CL moves rearward (effectively lengthening the wheelbase on that side) ... that is negative rear steer ... as both rear tires are angled toward the inside of the corner (relative to the chassis CL).

As the body rolls during cornering, if the outside tire CL does not move forward or rearward ... and the inside tire CL does not move forward or rearward ... that is neutral rear steer ... as both rear tires stay parallel to the chassis CL.

During body/chassis roll, from cornering, a converging 3-link, with the lower links level, causes the housing to rotate in a way that creates some positive rear steer. If the lower links are running uphill (towards the front) it would increase the rear steer. The rear steer will reduce if the lower links are ran downhill (towards the front) but it takes quite a bit & typically messes with achieving the optimum I/C & anti-squat.

Positive rear steer is a benefit on autocross cars … but when I am hired to help the occasional road race team running a converging 3-link … it throws another challenge at us & we have to do extra things to achieve rear grip on high speed sweeping corners.

bovey
05-25-2014, 04:14 PM
does tech not require any door bars? Looks great, clean welds, did your fabricator TIG it all?

Yes, mostly TIG. Every weld is sexy. And yes, it has door bars now. I'll post photos soon.


Looks great Mark. When's the next track day?

Thanks. Very happy. The next track day was yesterday at CTMP (Mosport) at the DDT track. It was a bit of a trash to get it back together. Fun day. I wasn't at my best as it was a hard week and I was tired. But still, a day at the track is a day at the track.

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I was instructing at this event too. I was so car sick after trying to tame the young drivers with powerful cars, I did not get the truck out until the afternoon sessions. It's working well, I did a little shock tuning, but not enough. I'm going to take a day off and go dedicate my day to shock tuning.

96314

It feels totally different after putting the cage in. And having seats and harnesses that hold me in place are fantastic.

The 'cage is done, I just need to paint it. There will be a follow-up post soon with photos.

bovey
05-26-2014, 09:14 PM
Here is a video off the front bump of the truck. Not my best day, but it was still fun. I was limiting myself to 5000 rpm as it needs valve springs. Anyway - enough with the BS/excuses. Video. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAGUwat1cNg&feature=youtu.be

bovey
05-31-2014, 05:12 AM
Just in, the roll cage doesn't seem to affect the payload!

And super funny, this Home Depot is a local hangout for the Fast and Furious racer types. A few of them cruised me wanting to race, EVEN WITH the bed full. Who do they think I am, the Farmtruck?

96639

srh3trinity
05-31-2014, 11:47 AM
This is why I should have done a truck project first. I never have anything to haul parts or lumber in.

bovey
06-05-2014, 05:53 AM
This is why I should have done a truck project first. I never have anything to haul parts or lumber in.

lol. Yeah. Racing a truck is handy. Not sure how a 4x8 sheet of plywood will fit anymore. They guys at the dump love it when I show up with this thing.

96894

woodside783
06-06-2014, 09:25 AM
the cage work is awsome

bovey
06-08-2014, 05:20 AM
Tires arrived! 295 BFG Rivals on all 4 corners. With our climate up here these seem like a good all round tire choice. Sadly, the fires in Cali has delayed my wheel arrival. Thankfully, the businesses are okay, they are just behind. No biggie.

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Old 255. New 295.

97048

Can. Not. Wait.

snopro
06-08-2014, 01:08 PM
cant wait to see the wheel choice

bovey
06-11-2014, 06:57 PM
cant wait to see the wheel choice

I can't wait to see the finished wheels too. Should have them around the end of the month.

In the meantime. Mascoll Designs finished my comps. These are more of a phase 2 rendering when it can sit this low properly. Originally, I did these just to figure out the wheels and wheel colour. FYI - I'm a artistic type so I made the layouts, Mascoll (Shawn) did the 3D renderings. Very happy with his work.

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My friends joke that I drive a tool shed with a pool out back, so here.

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As usual work has been a monster, so I'm a little behind. Gonna push hard this week-end and catch up a little.

Payton King
06-12-2014, 06:44 AM
I really enjoy this thread and your project. Always look forward to updates

Peter Mc Mahon
06-12-2014, 07:38 AM
truck looks awesome Mark. I can't see in the pictures , but for bed removal, are the rear cage [bed] bars bolted through the floor to frame? Are you an Ontario guy? I am in Paris if you know where that is. Keep the pictures coming please!

BMR Sales
06-13-2014, 07:46 AM
A friend of mine did the Targa a few years ago. He said the Locals were great - he wrecked his car going off the road in wet conditions before a bridge (he & his wife went End over End) - the Locals got them out, towed the car to a local garage, straightened the car out and he finished!

protouring70
06-13-2014, 05:28 PM
Hey Bovey, what size wheels are you running up front. And did you have to modify anything. All I keep finding is an 8 or 8 1/2 for the front. Thanks in advanced.
Brent

rustomatic
06-13-2014, 08:12 PM
This pic/meme is awesomeness. Even my wife will like this (and actually understand).

On an unrelated note, I'm looking forward to hearing of your results with the BFG Rivals; I've only heard/read 95% good about these, which is pretty great. I thought hard about getting these recently, but went with Hankook RS3s instead, for a few odd reasons. I'll be hitting Sears Point/Sonoma Raceway (first time/second track day) in August, with at least one auto-x in between, so as to create a baseline for trying out something different next year (among other motivations)...


Just in, the roll cage doesn't seem to affect the payload!

And super funny, this Home Depot is a local hangout for the Fast and Furious racer types. A few of them cruised me wanting to race, EVEN WITH the bed full. Who do they think I am, the Farmtruck?

96639

bovey
06-14-2014, 07:39 AM
I really enjoy this thread and your project. Always look forward to updates

Thank you. I'm a creative type for a living, so I'm trying to keep this interesting and fun. There have been loads of 67-72 builds. I have a few things working against me, building a 67-72 GM truck is not exactly original at this point and there are guys with more money and way more experience building way cooler things. Take No Limits's Hellboy or RCHR's C10R and Smitty's C10.... mine's a 4 eyes, not a C10 AND a longbed. Not a popular combo.

However, this truck has been with me through most of my life. Everything from surviving a Tornado in Milwaukee, to massive road trips coast-to-coast, US and Canada and now the most difficult hurdle to survive - a son. It's not going anywhere. And besides, people said it was impossible to compete in a long bed, and that has proven to be inaccurate. Would it be faster as a short box? Sure. But if I was doing this competitively, I'd be building something lighter and smaller. This is for fun, so it's gonna be a little wacky.

All this being said, I'm going to release video later today. Again for fun. Who knows if my life will have time to do a competition like the Targa Newfoundland again. Let alone do a build like this. So, what the hell - I'm going for it.

bovey
06-14-2014, 07:43 AM
A friend of mine did the Targa a few years ago. He said the Locals were great - he wrecked his car going off the road in wet conditions before a bridge (he & his wife went End over End) - the Locals got them out, towed the car to a local garage, straightened the car out and he finished!

I married an east coast girl. Great people. Like your friend's story, I have heard great things about the locals during the Targa. And they folks who organize it are great too. I will be doing my best to keep it shiny side up! I've been meeting with past competitors and getting advice. The best so far, "race was you can see". This competition is not about huge power or huge speed, a big part of the game it making it to the finish line.

bovey
06-14-2014, 10:54 AM
Hey Bovey, what size wheels are you running up front. And did you have to modify anything. All I keep finding is an 8 or 8 1/2 for the front. Thanks in advanced.
Brent

My current wheels are 18" x 9" Pro Comp wheels.

Pro Comp? Yup. These wheels are low-buck rock crawler wheels. They are not very light, but this model is the lightest Pro Comp makes. Turns out Jeeps of a certain era had a 5" x 5" bolt pattern ALSO KNOWN AS 5 x 127.

If you ask wheel makers for 5x5 for a GM truck they will say "NO. No wheels for you." But if you ask for a 5 x 127 they will have them and your options open. However most are 5" back spacing as they are intended for 4x4s.

Here is my wheel on a nice clean Jeep with all a lot of bling.

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And here, my dirty truck, same wheels, Toyo R888s and no bling.

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As for the wheel is my comp. They are New Gens 18x10. Spoke to Jon a few times and he is great. He is altering the design of the wheel (below) a bit to make it stronger as I'm going to be hard on it.

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So. To answer your question. Unless you go custom order, 8.5 / 9" is as wide as it gets. If your truck is 6 bolt you can get wider with 4x4 stuff, but then you need to ask a lot of questions about weight. Off the shelf you will always have back space issues. They will work, but the back wheels will be in too far like mine. The bonus - I picked up 4 wheels for under 1200 bucks. In the US, if you look hard you can get a set of these for 800 - 1000 if you look hard enough. Great value.

protouring70
06-14-2014, 06:30 PM
Thanks bud...

bovey
06-16-2014, 05:40 AM
Happy Monday,

I'm a Roadkill fan. And they have a few extra trucks they seem to want viewers to give their opinion on what do do with them.

So, I made a Roadkill Challenge up. If any of you want to be total rockstars, go to their Facebook page and share the link. Thanks in advance!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdENii-GXVc

BMR Sales
06-16-2014, 07:49 AM
I married an east coast girl. Great people. Like your friend's story, I have heard great things about the locals during the Targa. And they folks who organize it are great too. I will be doing my best to keep it shiny side up! I've been meeting with past competitors and getting advice. The best so far, "race was you can see". This competition is not about huge power or huge speed, a big part of the game it making it to the finish line.

My Buddy lost it on some Ice (still there during that time of year)! And he has experience doing Hill-Climbs, A/Xs etc. You've got to expect the unexpected!

69sponge
06-16-2014, 03:09 PM
What back spacing are you using for the front wheels?

bovey
06-16-2014, 07:06 PM
What back spacing are you using for the front wheels?

My FRONT New Gens are 18x10 with a 5.75" back spacing. HOWEVER, due to the number of different front end components available for these trucks, you MUST measure and do the math on your combo. I may have to trim my stock lower a-frame a little, just to be safe with wheel flex. I would have liked to have gone with 6", but it was too risky.

69sponge
06-16-2014, 07:47 PM
Thanks for the info.I just picked up a 72 and wanted to stuff a 18x10 up front and still keep it usable for the streets.I have a set of Bonspeeds on order but bailed out and ordered 18x9 for the front.

bovey
06-16-2014, 08:24 PM
Thanks for the info.I just picked up a 72 and wanted to stuff a 18x10 up front and still keep it usable for the streets.I have a set of Bonspeeds on order but bailed out and ordered 18x9 for the front.

18x9 with a 5" backspace have loads of room on my truck. You'll be able to run a 275 tire, depending on the manufacturer and how high your truck is. Even with the 255 888s on my truck I have to hold onto the wheel as they will grab ruts at low speeds. Post photos when you get them!

Peter Mc Mahon
06-18-2014, 04:53 AM
Mark, how is your bed removable [if it is] I am thinking about adding rear bars as well and wondering how others have approached this problem
Thanks and love the truck.

bovey
06-18-2014, 10:35 AM
Mark, how is your bed removable [if it is] I am thinking about adding rear bars as well and wondering how others have approached this problem
Thanks and love the truck.

Thanks Peter. Sorry for the tardy response. You've asked this earlier in the tread.

In the 20 odd years, 140,000ish miles I've put on this truck... I've never, ever had the thought or need to remove the box. So the cage is welded to the frame rail. That being said, I will just cut it off when the new chassis is completed.

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They cut nice access panels in the bed floor, welded the cage and put the floor back together. Keep in mind I have no interest in a show truck. This is a driver and is built to go.

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Now, you could easily make mounting pads on the frame rails and bolt the rear bars in. I would recommend you A) take a look at the rules for interior bolt-in mounting pads on the floor and pay attention to the sq/inches required. I would also talk to your sanctioning bodies about specs.

bovey
06-19-2014, 06:08 PM
Does anyone have advice on making shifters? length for a t-56. Ideal shape? Or do I just make it comfortable?

This will be the fourth one I've made. The 1st, on the right is an original '68 Mopar A body shifter, so I'm not cutting that. P.S. It worked great with my bench seat with an adaptor.

The far left, I made to fit around my son's baby seat. The shorty I made thinking it would be amazing, but it was so short I needed to hands to put it into reverse and I always missed 3rd... sigh.

The odd shaped one is a hurst donor from the 60/70s. I think I can use part of it to make a new one.

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brawls43
06-19-2014, 06:14 PM
I've been thinking about similar for the TKO I'm putting in my truck. My thought was to make it as short as is comfortable, in my 1950 F-1, I don't think it'll be super short, like your second from the left. I prefer shorter length, vs having it feel like shifting a big rig. Then I'll compare whether there's anything I need to bend around, like will 5th put the shifter against the dash? Or will reverse put the shifter into a seat? Everything else just seems cosmetic to me.

SD455
06-19-2014, 06:33 PM
They cut nice access panels in the bed floor, welded the cage and put the floor back together. Keep in mind I have no interest in a show truck. This is a driver and is built to go.

I love this build thread, and your attitude about the truck. In my mind it's what the hobby should be about. Well done!!

bovey
06-26-2014, 07:02 PM
Hey everyone,

Thought I would mention a new thread I'm doing. I need a place to keep track of preparing everything outside of the truck, so I created a thread. Feel free to follow along.

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/108160-Preparing-for-the-Targa-Newfoundland-Targa-Truck

This tread will cover things that pertain to getting ready, everything outside of my build. For example, I need a co-driver - so I made this and released it last night - so far - 3 really good candidates. If you fit the bill, please send an e-mail.

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In other news. New valve springs are in, my new radiator and Proper SFI roll cage padding arrived. Next up is a fire suppression system. Sadly, my wheels are delayed...

bovey
07-13-2014, 11:55 AM
the cage work is awsome

Thanks. Bit slow on showing finished fab photos. I planned on getting a bunch of work done last week-end, but my friends thought it was a better idea to celebrate my birthday. It's nice to be loved, but I see some late nights to catch up...

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I'm super happy with the 'cage. Here's a photo of the interior. I have to paint it, work has been crazy. I also have FIA harnesses, SFI roll cage padding and an FIA seat for race days. I'm mostly happy with these seats, I don't have them positioned right, so they are a little tough on the lower back. It's all easy to adjust.

On a safety side note: the roll cage padding in these photos might, MIGHT get you through a tech inspection. But it will do little, if anything at all if you have an incident. Many companies make SFI padding and it's not much more $$ that the wrong padding that can hurt you.

Underneath, the 4 main plates are sandwiched and tied back to the frame.

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In other news, you may recall I send Roadkill a challenge. They have since responded. Sadly, the schedule isn't going to work out. Here's a tweet Mike sent. Had nothing to loose by trying.

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However, I had a call from another tv channel about being on a show. They wanted meeting which I did this week. "They" say it's going to happen but I'm going to wait to say much until something actually happens. It will be crazy fun tho. Fingers crossed.

At the moment, work continues. I've had some great interest in the truck, people wanting t-shirts and stuff, some what to sponsor it for the race. Which is cool and surprising. Too simplify it, I'm going to try a kickstarter, I've always wanted to do one. If interested, follow along in my Preparation thread in the Open Discussion.

bovey
07-19-2014, 07:30 AM
Hey everyone,

If you have been following along in my Preparing to run the Targa Newfoundland thread in the Open Discussion. I've been working on a kickstarter, it's finally alive! Now I'm back in the garage to get some work done.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/114205774/team-targa-truck-the-first-truck-in-targa-newfound

protouring70
07-19-2014, 07:45 AM
That's cool Mark!

bovey
07-19-2014, 11:06 AM
That's cool Mark!

Thanks. For those not familiar. Kickstarter is a crowd funding site. You have to set goals, it only happens if the goal is hit, otherwise all the money goes back to the supporters. People make movies, books, video games, art, but racing a truck sounds better to me.

bovey
07-20-2014, 07:50 PM
Yesterday's task. Paint the roll cage. I new this was not going to be the most fun project. You really get twisted around into all kinds of positions - insert joke about my college years here...

Removed all the interior. Again. At least I'm getting fast at doing it. Loads of cleaning first.
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I was told to buy a bunch of bristol board so you don't have to tape much. Just cut the board into masks and have at it. It worked really well. I was sooo covered in paint.
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I also had to change my 5 point harnesses to my 6 point to pass tech. However, my 5-point was bolt in and my 6 point was clip in. Not much you can do at 9:30 on a Saturday night, but do the conversation. FYI - moving up to the buckle type belt is amazing, you don't have to adjust the belts as much to get in and out.
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Why is it you always notice the spots you missed when you look a the photos.
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Today I spent hanging out at the race track. The truck still have a couple of detail to sort before I go out. I've learnt that unless you are 150% ready to go, you stay in the pits. Today gave me that chance to meet a bunch of people, it was really nice to just get this thing out for a long drive. The weather was amazing here today.
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bovey
07-22-2014, 09:13 PM
Well, when you are the first. You have to write the rules here and there.

Back when we designed the cage, I work with the Chief Scrutineer of the Targa Newfoundland. I also worked with another group the ECTA, which a land speed racing group. Basically, we had to decide how trucks would be caged for the Targa, but I didn't want to build the cage in a way that would NOT exclude me from land speed racing. It was a lot of reading, drawings and e-mails, but it work out.

I even used photos for other treads to prove the design. What people have done here is a valuable asset when discussing cage designs.

Today, David (photographer) drove almost 3 hours to see the fabrication for himself. I've been sweating bullets since he called me and told me he wanted to okay the truck before it even left for Newfoundland.

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Everything was great. My fab guys killed this job, most are amazed at the weld quality. And David said they were among the most beautiful welds he had ever seen. Wonder if that is how we sweet talks his wife...

To conclude. If you ever enter a truck in the Targa Newfoundland, the rules are based on what you see in this build thread.

low68
07-23-2014, 08:19 PM
Awesome! Glad everything checked out.

MCMLXIX
08-19-2014, 12:28 AM
Didn't I see pics of a hood modification somewhere?

brawls43
08-19-2014, 07:10 AM
I think he had them on Facebook.

Like this:
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snopro
08-20-2014, 11:44 AM
Looking great mark, love the hood I am planning something similar for my truck. I still need to come out to CTMP to see this thing in action im sure it would kick my a$$ into gear to get going on my own.

Keep up the great work
Chris

68byrd
08-22-2014, 10:01 AM
Mark, what you are doing is so cool. Its awesome to see all the people supporting you. I missed out on the kickstarter, i looked at it and wanted to donate but I missed it. Do you have the t-shirts for sale anywhere else? I know you are very busy and have a ton of things to do, but your designs are great i would love to order a couple. If not, no worries. You have a great story and are talented on many fronts. Good Luck!

bovey
08-23-2014, 07:06 PM
Fine folks of pro-touring. Sorry for being MIA. A lot has been happening.

Where do I begin...

I know, the rad. I had put a new stock replacement rad in it last year, but it wasn't as well made as my previous one and was not up to the task. So, an aluminum rad went in. This is made by a Canadian Company called "Northern". My hard core race guys swear by them, so I tried one.
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In it went and everything was fine. Next, it as time to take it to the track and try to make it over heat. No dice. AMAZING. This rad combined with my twin Spal fans works amazing. Crazy hot day, I did not let it cool down. The idea was to push on it and see what breaks...
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Sigh... What breaks is kinda a long story, so I'll jump to the ending. I set the starter on fire. Yup. Towed off the track and everything. However, there is an upside - I learned how to push start the truck - super easy so long as you have 4 friends to help you out!
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Got it home no problem and my local speed shop, Performance Improvements was able to get everything I needed next day. Slam it all together - good as new.
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It should be noted that Performance Improvements has taken interest in the truck and is sponsoring me for some parts, they have been so helpful over the last few months.

Now back to fixing heat issues.

While I was under the truck doing the work to keep the starter safe from heat, I noticed my brake lines might want some help too. So I DEI'd everything.
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FYI - I run 1 7/8 primaries on my LS. And with an LS in these trucks, the frame rails are not exactly wide so it's a tight fit. The headers really hug the starter which helped caused the failure. IT SHOULD BE NOTED that this was not all the fault of heat, I also over cranked the starter trying to get the truck going track side which compounded the issue. And it wouldn't start because I got the fuel to hot... Again - long story.

The larger issue is heat. And obviously, these truck were not meant for prolonged track days at high speed, so GM never was too concerned about how badly they trap and hold heat.

So, I decided to make a new hood... I post this soon. P.S. Thanks guys for updating the post while I was out breaking stuff!

Oh and also, here is an blog on the truck from Track Enthusiast.
http://track-enthusiast.com/the-targa-truck/

bovey
08-23-2014, 07:08 PM
Mark, what you are doing is so cool. Its awesome to see all the people supporting you. I missed out on the kickstarter, i looked at it and wanted to donate but I missed it. Do you have the t-shirts for sale anywhere else? I know you are very busy and have a ton of things to do, but your designs are great i would love to order a couple. If not, no worries. You have a great story and are talented on many fronts. Good Luck!

Thank you so much. Honoured. And no sweat on the kickstarter. I do plan on having a little online store set-up for people who want to help/join in on the fun. I'm currently having the t-shirts and posters printed. More soon. But I need to focus on finishing the truck. It gets loaded in a car hauler in 2 weeks. Yowza.

bovey
08-28-2014, 08:42 PM
So as mentioned, I had under hood heat issues. So, I decided to go full crazy and try building a heat extractor hood.

Bill's Truck Shop, my long time parts source since I was 16 donated a nice hood to the cause. Besides, everyone buys cowl hoods now...
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Basically, I looked at race cars on line and GT40s. Measured it out and started cutting. Ideally it would have a box to completely close off the inside of the hood, but I do not have time for that.
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Then I figured out how big the vents could be. From what I understand you try to get the bottom of the vent to line up with the front of the block and push it down as far as you can. Each vent hole is around 14" x 11".

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Fortunately, I have some proper builders following my build and one of them sent me a message about putting these on to help create a low pressure area over the vent. I was terrified these made it look a bit too Tokyo Drift....
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... but I figured out how to fix the fast and furious problem. Add some Mad Max, paint rollered flat black makes anything look badass.
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Then came the interesting part. For one of my sponsors I offered them the chance to let their customers paint the company logo on the hood. I masked it off and basically had a bunch of attractive women paint my hood. It turned out really neat and everyone had a great time.

FYI - the truck was parked on the side of the street infront of the business which is a fresh bar. I know - fresh bar? Turns out the owner sponsors MMA, boxers, etc, etc and was excited to add a "race car driver" to the mix...
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After a few hours we said it was done, sprayed it with a clear and yanked off all the tape.
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The finished hood.
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And done.
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It seems to work. However, I am amazed at how each hole has a different temperature of air and volume of air coming out of it at rest. And after running all day the hood is not near as hot and my old closed hood was. Far from scientific, but I'm outta time and need to focus on brake cooling and electronics.

And if I don't run out of time, I'll paint the edges of the hood and make it sexy. For those wishing to do this, I also seam sealed all of the welds. I did not prime, nor bondo anything. I sanded - paint rollered it. Done. Because race truck.

RobNoLimit
08-28-2014, 11:17 PM
Rock & Roll baby, Rock & Roll!

RMerritts
08-29-2014, 07:11 AM
I love that you kept it long bed.. Now if I could find the gmc front for the c10 we just picked up....

68byrd
08-29-2014, 09:27 AM
This is the COOLEST DAMN THING it have seen in a long time. Love the hood. Awesome.

bovey
08-29-2014, 09:49 AM
Thanks everyone. Here is my current task - getting air to the brakes. Sadly, with the stock suspension, there is not much room. So, only 1 hose will be used for now on each side.

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low68
08-30-2014, 08:32 PM
Awesome! Can't wait to hear how all this upgrades perform in the race.

67goatman455
08-30-2014, 09:59 PM
holy crap that hood came out so bad ass! for the love of god finish painting the edges though haha.

srh3trinity
08-31-2014, 04:51 AM
I must be in the minority, but I like the hood as is.

bovey
08-31-2014, 07:41 AM
Awesome! Can't wait to hear how all this upgrades perform in the race.

You and I both. This is the toughest the truck has ever been, but have I built it tough enough. By the time I know, it may be too late.

I have to say that hiring Ron Sutton was the smartest thing it have done - when I get concerned about something, his experience has been amazing and calming to be honest.

bovey
08-31-2014, 07:43 AM
holy crap that hood came out so bad ass! for the love of god finish painting the edges though haha.

I have a plan, but am not sure about the time worst case - I'll break out the paint roller again.

bovey
08-31-2014, 07:44 AM
I must be in the minority, but I like the hood as is.

LOL. You are not the only one. I kinda like it too, but I have a plan that will look better. I have an appointment with an amazing hand painter this week.

shortrack
08-31-2014, 02:43 PM
Oh here you are!.....looking good Mark and nice meeting you at Autofest. Keep diggin'

bovey
09-03-2014, 10:01 AM
Oh here you are!.....looking good Mark and nice meeting you at Autofest. Keep diggin'

Nice meeting you as well. And it was awesome to experience your car in the flesh. LOVE IT.

protouring70
09-03-2014, 05:06 PM
That hood is awesome! Great work

Peter Mc Mahon
09-04-2014, 07:19 AM
Looks great Mark, when do you leave?

bovey
09-04-2014, 09:08 AM
Looks great Mark, when do you leave?

Thanks. Truck ships Sunday or Monday. I fly Wed. Working like mad.

shortrack
09-04-2014, 08:15 PM
Thanks. Truck ships Sunday or Monday. I fly Wed. Working like mad.

Good luck man!

low68
09-11-2014, 07:36 PM
Oh yeah, 3 days to go. I can't wait for some updates on this! Video too please!

Peter Mc Mahon
09-12-2014, 04:49 AM
How is the 'to do' list going Mark? Hope everything goes great for you. I was talking about your race to my 7 year old daughter the other day and my wife walked in and asked what we were talking about, my daughter said "Dad is talking about OUR race truck". Glad you did the kickstarter thing, I feel like I am part of the team!

bovey
09-13-2014, 08:38 PM
Hey guys!

Everything went crazy, in a good way. I'm going to have to backlog some updates for you. Last Friday, I had finished building my brakes and interior when a meeting was arranged with Chevrolet Performance in Detroit. I wasn't expecting anything to happen, but soooo wanted to do the call.

THEY. WERE. AMAZING. And they love the Targa Truck. It was crazy, totally did not expect it.

Long story short, they called Scoggin-Dickey Parts Center out of Texas and by days end they sponsored us. Un-real. The guys we spoke to at Scoggins-Dickey were amazing too.

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I never imagined this would happen. I'm just a guy building in my home garage. Here is the truck, getting ready for tech. The Targa Newfoundland prolog starts in the morning.

Again, sorry for being out of touch. This project has had me going around the clock.

low68
09-13-2014, 08:53 PM
That is AWESOME!!! Congrats on the huge name sponsor. I love it when a big company sponsors a garage builder like that. Can't wait for the updates. Have a great time!

Ron Sutton
09-14-2014, 07:29 AM
Bets wishes for a fast, fun & safe event Mark !

bovey
09-14-2014, 04:09 PM
How is the 'to do' list going Mark? Hope everything goes great for you. I was talking about your race to my 7 year old daughter the other day and my wife walked in and asked what we were talking about, my daughter said "Dad is talking about OUR race truck". Glad you did the kickstarter thing, I feel like I am part of the team!

The 'to do' list almost got done before the truck shipped. Sorting out the sponsorship tool some serious time out of my schedule. But what a great reason to end up behind the eight ball.

The truck landed 2 days late. The thrash to pass tech was epic. Had to install the kill switch, plumb the fire safety system, wire the rally computer and a few odds and ends. We took it out for a midnight run to calibrate the rally computer- thankfully everything worked.

Today was prolog and the truck worked great. The runs are intense - my second stage was like a 4 mile autoX, but the pylons have been replaced with telephone poles, houses, boulders, lakes, cliffs and oceans.

Sadly, one of my fellow competitors ended up in the hospital today and the car is gone after hitting a concrete culvert.

So happy to hear your story with your daughter, it means a lot. There will be more stories to share - GM 8/ going to be sharing stories of the Targa Truck on the block and Scoggin-Dickey will be releasing a couple videos.

shortrack
09-14-2014, 07:55 PM
Awesome! - You.....must......finish.......you.......must..... finish!

bovey
09-25-2014, 06:24 AM
We are back. I picked up my wounded truck yesterday. Front lower control arms are done, rear-end is in question, the shifter is giving up. Every joint in the exhaust is leaking.

Let's back-up al little. I'll repair stuff soon enough.

We arrived in St. John's Wednesday and everything was grand. The truck was to arrive Thursday for Targa school and we'd have a few nights to complete a small "to do" list. However, that all when in the toilet when there was an issue with shipping. The truck finally arrived 20 minutes before tech closed, yes CLOSED on Saturday. We had less than 16 hours before we needed to be starting prolog.

We also needed a car to do school in, the last car in St. John's was a 2011 Toyota Camery. We kept loosing it in mall parking lots... such a forgettable car. However, one parking lot mishap was in front of a Michael's Craft Store. Miles had the brilliant idea to paint it.

Presenting the Targa Truck Stunt Double.
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Hard to tell the difference - non?

The truck did arrive and boy did we thrash. We started working it before it even rolled off the trailer.
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There are not many photos of from the day, however I stopped to take a couple of picks of Miles putting on our final sponsor.
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By sometime in the AM, the Targa Truck was ready and road tested. We found out the next day that everyone had bet against us, they put us way back in the grid because they assumed we wouldn't make it. We'd prove them wrong many times this week.
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The first few days of racing were intense, we had to figure out the roads, the people and each other. By Wednesday we had flipped the switch to attack and had moved into 2nd place. Here are a few photos of the action.
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And yes, we had to deal with some crazy stuff. We managed to only get the truck in the air once. The landing was a rough as you can imagine...
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The Globe and Mail (Canadian newspaper) ran a five part series about our adventure. Here are the first 2 days.

Day 1

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/motorsports/taking-on-targa-newfoundland-in-a-truck/article20599122/

Day 2

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/motorsports/taking-on-targa-newfoundland-in-a-truck/article20614127/#dashboard/alerts

More soon. Or just google "Targa Truck".

CHRIZ28
09-25-2014, 06:52 PM
Followed the race with the daily videos Targa Newfoundland posted, you on Facebook and The Globe. Just couldn't get enough. Haha. Can't imagine the fun you guys had! Living the dream! Glad everything went amazing! Definitely on my bucket list. Started watching the targa about 5 years ago. Just too damn cool! Time for more pics and videos.

Chris

bovey
09-29-2014, 06:13 PM
Followed the race with the daily videos Targa Newfoundland posted, you on Facebook and The Globe. Just couldn't get enough. Haha. Can't imagine the fun you guys had! Living the dream! Glad everything went amazing! Definitely on my bucket list. Started watching the targa about 5 years ago. Just too damn cool! Time for more pics and videos.

Thanks Chris! This just came out today. Here is some more reading for you - Hooniverse's account of the Targa Truck adventure is hilarious.

http://hooniverse.com/2014/09/29/thunder-on-the-rock-a-1971-gmc-longbox-takes-on-the-targa-newfoundland/

bovey
09-30-2014, 12:29 PM
As if this couldn't get any better. The Targa Truck is on ROAD AND TRACK. OM-freaking-G

But you guys read it here first on pro-touring.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/car-culture/100-dollar-beater-gmc-pickup-becomes-endurance-racing-monster

Today is a good day. Wow.

Munssey
09-30-2014, 03:47 PM
Man! The good news keeps rolling!

Excellent adventure to follow.

low68
09-30-2014, 03:57 PM
That is awesome!

CHRIZ28
09-30-2014, 06:43 PM
Very cool! I love reading these articles about the truck!

Chris

SSLance
09-30-2014, 07:36 PM
As if this couldn't get any better. The Targa Truck is on ROAD AND TRACK. OM-freaking-G

But you guys read it here first on pro-touring.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/car-culture/100-dollar-beater-gmc-pickup-becomes-endurance-racing-monster

Today is a good day. Wow.


Congrats on everything! Been following along the whole way, fantastic story that you'll have with you the rest of your life!!

shortrack
09-30-2014, 08:21 PM
Awesome job Mark! The Chevelle made R&T too

BMR Sales
10-01-2014, 06:40 AM
As if this couldn't get any better. The Targa Truck is on ROAD AND TRACK. OM-freaking-G

But you guys read it here first on pro-touring.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/car-culture/100-dollar-beater-gmc-pickup-becomes-endurance-racing-monster

Today is a good day. Wow.

Awesome News! Enjoy your new found Fame!

10-01-2014, 11:31 AM
Awesome News! Enjoy your new found LAND Fame!

Fixed :)

BMR Sales
10-01-2014, 01:55 PM
Fixed :)

Good Catch!

bovey
10-21-2014, 04:12 PM
Post Targa life has been busy - have had a lot of clean-up; truck and otherwise to figure out.

Anyway, we left off at the end of day 2.

By Wednesday (day 3), Miles and I were starting to figure it out. We were quick, only a minute behind 2nd place. So we figured, "what the hell, let's run down the Porsche." And we did, a lot. Keep in mind we are staggered 30 seconds apart. On some runs, we'd catch the Corvette in front of the Porsche. Yes, it was fun.

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However, what we did not expect the road conditions. Wednesday brought total havoc to most teams, including us. Rougher roads than you can imagine. And at extreme rates of speed 160-200 km/h (100 - 125 mph) Stuff breaks and falls apart.

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Wednesday night was spent putting the truck back together, and were not alone. In our case, the front tow hook fell off, the front bumper almost fell off, the front shock mounts undid themselves, the seats were loose, the transmission was loose, the rear-end was loose, etc, etc. We ended up nut and bolting the truck twice due the amount vibration and shocked hammered through the truck.

But, we were in 2nd place. So, cool.

And meet a Targa Newfoundland competitor's best friend - Red Threadlock.

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Not everyone made it to Thursday. I'm not sure if they plan Wednesday to break you, but is seemed that way. Why? Because Thursday was amazing. Thursday was the prize for everyone who made it to that day. Wonderful weather, fun fast stages, and Bonavista...


We stopped in Bonavista for lunch. We had soup, it was amazing. Lunch was always made by church ladies, and it was always heavy and wonderful. So much for that race diet before the targa. Anyway, a soup was a light welcome change.

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When we came out of lunch, they had shut down Bonavista, they were going to let us loose through the neighbourhoods, main streets, back alleys and even a few driveways. It was roughly 6 km of winding rounds through the very place John Cabot is said to have landed on June 24, 1497.

The run in Bonavista alone was worth every ounce of blood, sweat, zero sleep, stress, all the money and then some. It was a freaking riot.

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The end of Thrusday came, in a blur. We had not broke anything, other than the brakes were baked. Turned out the fluid was boiled, Miles jumped on the task when we returned home and we actually got to bed. Which was great, because the final day was coming up, but we'll talk about that soon.

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If you missed them, here are Wednesday and Thrusday's articles from the Globe and Mail. Please check them out, because clicks count. Also, you can read about the truck hitting 200000 miles, that's 320000 kms and having a birthday at the Targa Newfoundland.

Leg 3
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/motorsports/targa-newfoundland-driving-with-lobster-eyes/article20654574/

Leg 4
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/motorsports/targa-newfoundland-happy-200000-mile/article20691835/

bovey
10-31-2014, 11:17 AM
I've had a few people contact me about the steering set-up of my truck. Here is the thread I did about it. Should be noted that my system is very similar to the set-up Rob had on his red/black '69. I found the info in the awesome Speedhunters article.

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/101327-AGR-14-1-Race-Steering-Box-Install-C10-1500-manual-to-power-conversion

Incase you missed it, here is the 2010 Speedhunters article on Rob's '69 C10

http://www.speedhunters.com/2010/11/car_feature_gt_gt_rob_phillip_s_chevy_c_10/

bovey
11-12-2014, 06:43 AM
Video time! This one is dedicated to everyone who said it couldn't be done. I'm new to editing, I've always wanted to learn. Enjoy and crank it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru3i7lPP5EA

Dr G
11-14-2014, 04:28 PM
Very cool. Nice editing too. Dr G

chevelletiger
11-15-2014, 06:17 PM
I like!

bovey
11-24-2014, 07:11 AM
Thanks guys!

Also, we totally missed this last week, but the truck is currently up of Chevrolet's Performance's "The Block". Check it out. It's has a few old school photos of me you can laugh at too!

https://theblock.com/news/first-targa-newfoundland-truck-places-second-class-chevrolet-performance-parts

bovey
12-11-2014, 09:05 AM
Hey guys, Hooniverse has nominated the Targa Truck for their Hooniverse Car of the Year. #HCOTY Please check out the article and share!


http://hooniverse.com/2014/12/11/hcoty-nominee-the-targa-truck/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hooniverse%2FRrVl+%28Hooniver se%29&utm_content=FaceBook

bovey
01-15-2015, 07:30 PM
Okay. Opinions and/or advice please.

t56 Magnum shifter - mine is loose. Transmission shifts fine, works great, but the shifter is sloppy. Like, really sloppy. It was iffy before the Targa and I completely destroyed it during the event. It was one of the things on the to-do list that I did not get too.

So, I've been reading. It could be a simple fix, some say it's adjustable. But I personally, have no idea. I took the t56 out of the box new, put it in and have had zero issues. I did change the fluid this past summer - old fluid looks fine.

I have yet to take the shifter apart and cannot take it apart for a couple months.

My questions:

1) Anyone have experience similar to this. That is a shifter that is very loose, as in - it's in gear and you can move the gearshift a few inches while it stays in gear.

2) Stay with a tremec shifter or something aftermarket? What do others run? Track use? AutoX?

Much appreciated.

Thanks,
bovey

01-19-2015, 09:14 AM
Sick truck...lots of Fbody guys love the B&M ripper

no1udknow
01-24-2015, 04:11 PM
Because race truck.

This should be painted on the side of your truck....best line of all!

no1udknow
01-24-2015, 04:53 PM
so Bovey, are you or did you run stock a-arms? I'm currently running stock suspension from an 85 c10 but i was trying to decide if I want to run them and just get drop springs, or swap them out for some aftermarket a-arms. I know a set of aftermarkets would likely be lighter, but I don't intend on soing anything like Targa..stock arms should be fine right?

bovey
01-24-2015, 06:37 PM
so Bovey, are you or did you run stock a-arms? I'm currently running stock suspension from an 85 c10 but i was trying to decide if I want to run them and just get drop springs, or swap them out for some aftermarket a-arms. I know a set of aftermarkets would likely be lighter, but I don't intend on soing anything like Targa..stock arms should be fine right?

I run stock a-arms. Simply because my money was better spent elsewhere. If you want it too look sexier, sure go with aftermarket a-arms.

108096

I'm holding out to do an entire chassis at this point, if you want to make it handle save up for something like No Limits IFS, Rob builds amazing stuff. Or take a peek at PCHRods C10R - Rob's truck runs a Detroit Speed set-up. Only use proven stuff if you want it to handle.

Does mine work? Yes, very well for what it is. With a warmed-over stock suspension LONG bed, I have chased down more C5s and C6s than I can remember, various Lotuses, Porsches, and a Ferrari 458, had the pleasure of catching the 458 twice in the same day on and FIA sanctioned track. Not to mention competing in the Targa Newfoundland. You just need a very good alignment shop to dial it in. Am I at the complete limit of the stock chassis?? Oh yes. Can it be a handful on a tight AutoX track - you bet. Is it crazy fun? Hell yes.

And yes, all of the cars mentioned in the previous paragraph should kick my butt, but I had one thing none of them had - training. Do some driving schools with your truck when you get it ready. I did my first school with drum brakes and 24:1 stock manual steering. It was a riot.

On a side note: the stock arms saved me on the Targa. Due to the low centre crossmember and the extremely rough roads the stock arms just bent (a lot) when needed and somehow held the alignment. I hit a lip of a bridge at 110 mph and left a trail of sparks that would have made a stance nation attendee proud.

Depending how far you are going down, you may want to look into a set of drop spindles and springs. Not entirely sure what happens to the steering geometry when you do a 4" drop with springs.

As for your weight concerns. I seem to recall you are sticking with your 6-bolt set-up, those wheels will not be light. If you are budget building and want to make it handle. Be smart with your chassis upgrades, skip the 6 bolt wheels, convert to 5 bolt and save up for proper set of wheels, or rob a bank now and by the the MHTs from Rob, that is a deal. Spend some money of shocks too.

Half measures cost you twice as much in the end.

no1udknow
01-24-2015, 10:13 PM
here's the sad thing...when I swapped the front cross member, the stock rotors from the 85 were 5 lug.... i threw them away because no one wanted them... i chanced into the set of cpp 6 lug rotors I have for $40 with only a few hundred miles on them. but luckily I can easily replace them with some new rotors and return to 5 lug for less than $100. then its a matter of rear axle shafts, or swping the whole rear axle all together. I imagine you are running sway bars... what size are you running?

bovey
01-25-2015, 06:20 AM
Oh. Well that's not so bad. So long as it's just a rotor and caliper swap. Low buck means a set of parts store 1.25" rotors, upgraded studs and a set of D52 calipers to keep it on the inexpensive side. I'd still look into that before jumping in the deep-end on a set of 6 bolt wheels.

For the rear axel. Run the 12 bolt for now and swap it for a floater. Save your pennies. I wish I had. The money I have tied up dealing with my 12 bolt would have covered a huge part of a proper rear-end. WHY? The truck 12 bolt is different than a car 12 bolt and it's a pain to build. Here is a thread on my 12 bolt adventure with brakes:

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/101080-Soft-Pedal-vs-Axle-Runout-solutions-Willwoods-(fixed-callipers)-on-a-12-bolt-GM?highlight=


As for sway bars I run a CCP front only. That's like 300 bucks, well, even less as you live in the US. Somewhere in this thread is my entire set-up, it's nothings special.

no1udknow
01-28-2015, 07:42 AM
Bovey,
so I read the thread about the issues with the rear end, and I have a question, why couldn't someone take a front hub from a newer ifs 4x4, cut the hub center where the bearing sits hemispherically, and fab it on to a rear axle housing to create a floating rear caliper mount? Especially if it were from a heavy duty truck like a 2500-3500, the bearing housing in the hub should be quite large.... Just a thought.

bovey
01-28-2015, 05:21 PM
Bovey,
so I read the thread about the issues with the rear end, and I have a question, why couldn't someone take a front hub from a newer ifs 4x4, cut the hub center where the bearing sits hemispherically, and fab it on to a rear axle housing to create a floating rear caliper mount? Especially if it were from a heavy duty truck like a 2500-3500, the bearing housing in the hub should be quite large.... Just a thought.

Interesting, that may work. I looked at a few 14 bolt axle housing photos and maybe, MAYBE you could fab something.

However, the time involved, I do not want to imagine. And personally, I am very careful with getting too Frankenstein with my parts as sometimes stuff breaks very far from home, and I need it needs to be fixable. It's already hard enough building something like this to perform, let alone make it too hard to work on.

Also, given the complicated nature of building a performance 12 bolt GM truck rear-end, it's not worth the risk for me, when a perfectly good and tough solution exists in the 9" Ford. Hell, you can buy one from amazon.

Suppose it depends what you want out of your build. I meet guys that are very proud of adapting some kind of odd factory break set-up onto their truck, sourcing the 1 MC that actually makes it work, etc, etc, etc. That is not my deal. My current set-up rotors are stock-ish, they work great and they are throw away, I get'em so hot they can't be machined again. Fortunately, they are cheap and everywhere. My mistake was the rear, the willwood set-up is not enough more my build, this is NOT Willwood's fault. I was held to this silly 12 bolt GM "truck" rear-end. The rotors are crazy expensive for what they are. When I upgrade to the floater, the brakes will be thought through fully from stopping performance, to endurance, to replacement cost and accessibility in North American, because the Targa Truck is build for road trips to racing destinations.

Peter Mc Mahon
02-06-2015, 04:01 PM
Hey Mark, how are those posters coming along for the Kickstarter?
Thanks.

bovey
02-06-2015, 05:13 PM
Hey Mark, how are those posters coming along for the Kickstarter?
Thanks.

Hey Peter!

I was just working on them today, I'm eager to get them done and out. Going to print them next week. Sorry for the delay. Life got a little out of hand, my day job has had me working every day of the week before and after Christmas, but that finished this week.

I had to do a couple of extra paper tests as I was experimenting with how to control the oil spread. Some papers trap the sediment in the oil better than others. And then there was figuring out the varnish to protect it.... again, thanks for bearing with me on this.

Peter Mc Mahon
02-06-2015, 05:55 PM
No worries, just wondering.
I know your a busy guy but if you are free on Sunday June 14th, I am organizing a car show to benefit the United Way, and it would be great if the Targa Truck could be there!
Details are still being finalized [ I work for a very large company that is sponsoring the show ] but if you have any interest, let me know.
Thanks.

bovey
02-06-2015, 06:13 PM
No worries, just wondering.
I know your a busy guy but if you are free on Sunday June 14th, I am organizing a car show to benefit the United Way, and it would be great if the Targa Truck could be there!
Details are still being finalized [ I work for a very large company that is sponsoring the show ] but if you have any interest, let me know.
Thanks.

I assume that is a father's day thing correct? PM me the details when you have it nailed down, let's try to figure something out. I want to get out and do some more fun stuff this year. I spent every week-end in 2014 either trying to break it, or fixing it because I was successful...

bovey
02-10-2015, 06:22 PM
Hey Mark, how are those posters coming along for the Kickstarter?
Thanks.

Hi Peter,

I printed the oil posters today (Tuesday, Feb 10th). I printed them in my garage, the same place I built the truck - only it was -6C today... brrrrrr.... They need to dry a few days, then I need to seal, sign and number them. Then they ship out to the kickstarter peeps!

108823

These posters are printed from the used engine oil drained from the Targa Truck's 427LSX after competing in the 2014 Targa Newfoundland. It has taken forever to nail all the details, but printing today went well.

Peter Mc Mahon
02-10-2015, 08:00 PM
Hi Peter,

I printed the oil posters today (Tuesday, Feb 10th). I printed them in my garage, the same place I built the truck - only it was -6C today... brrrrrr.... They need to dry a few days, then I need to seal, sign and number them. Then they ship out to the kickstarter peeps!

108823

These posters are printed from the used engine oil drained from the Targa Truck's 427LSX after competing in the 2014 Targa Newfoundland. It has taken forever to nail all the details, but printing today went well.

Awesome! So where is the truck now? Still at PI? Will you have the new frame in it this year?

Peter Mc Mahon
03-01-2015, 04:53 AM
Slow dry time on the oil Mark? Too cold? Brrrrr ha ha Any updates?

bovey
03-01-2015, 10:51 AM
Slow dry time on the oil Mark? Too cold? Brrrrr ha ha Any updates?

Hi Peter, they are dry, they are sealed. As you can imagine printing in oil has a smell, it just takes a matter of time for it to pass. They are taking a little longer to "air out" than my tests for some reason. I am researching enzyme treatments to speed up the process.


And yes, it is freaking cold. Wow.

s.thomason55
03-06-2015, 08:39 PM
Thanks. I'm going to have fun with this. And yes, I have a big history with this truck and plan on making it bigger.

I run a CPP front spindle, drop coils and a CCP sway bar. Which I discovered tonight has been hitting the steering linkage. Joy.

Rear is a bone stock truck arm with 4" drop coils, 2" blocks and ECE shock relocates and a CCP pan hard bar.


Are the front spindles stock height? Big fan of the truck!

bovey
03-07-2015, 03:01 PM
Are the front spindles stock height? Big fan of the truck!

Thank you.

and no, I run CCP drop spindles. But mine are the original design. I believe the ones they sell now narrow the track width a bit - don't quote me on that...

I run CCP drop coils and their sway bar. Nothing fancy.

It looks like I am going to be changing the spindles this year to open up my brake options.

bovey
03-07-2015, 05:26 PM
Are the front spindles stock height? Big fan of the truck!

Actually, this article just came out that has more detail in it. Fair warning, it's long with loads of new photos.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/3793/Did-You-Say-TARGA-TRUCK.aspx

Also, I was going through my video of the truck as was struck by how much things changed in 1 year. I volunteer for a local car group the SPDA, they originally were the way I got into autoX/road racing. So, I made this video for the upcoming Advanced Driver Clinic (for beginners) they put on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2j8asLChzQ

brawls43
03-07-2015, 05:30 PM
Great article! Love the Motoiq guys.

bovey
03-12-2015, 07:27 PM
If you are in the Toronto area this week-end. The Motorama Motorsport Expo is on. The Targa Truck is there, I'll be there chatting with people and handing out the poster below and a new magazine article.

Please say hello, the truck is in the Performance Improvement's booth, right at the front entrance of the show. Super cool.

Poster I'll be handing out.
110110

Performance in Motion Magazine
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Always ber weird seeing it on a trailer.
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Here are a few shots of the badassery there, these were taken during set-up today. The show opens on Friday.

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Very curious to see the Lutz car up close.
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These people spend waaaaayyyyy more time cleaning than I do.
110107

110108

bovey
03-23-2015, 07:18 AM
A few photos from Toronto's Motorama Show last week-end. If you want to see the full album check out Targa Truck's Facebook page.

We had a great spot right inside the entrance doors.
110540
I don't like barriers, people were really careful.
110539
We gave out posters and magazines as fast as we could roll them. That's my dad.
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This thing got a lot of attention. LSA. Airbag'd. Patina to die for.
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110537
110536

No shortage of amazing Mustangs, Blizzard is a Ring Brothers car.
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110534

I love this year of Celica, and a Rover V8 is a cool swap.
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This. IMHO there is a lot of wrong here, that makes a lot of right.
110542

This Merc truck was awesome.
110533

xpander343
03-24-2015, 04:02 PM
Can't believe I forgot about Motorama, I usually go. Woulda been cool to have seen your truck actually in person. Looks like a big turnout.

Peter Mc Mahon
03-25-2015, 04:47 AM
Any idea how many cars were there Mark?

bovey
03-27-2015, 05:51 AM
Can't believe I forgot about Motorama, I usually go. Woulda been cool to have seen your truck actually in person. Looks like a big turnout.

The turnout on Saturday was crazy. It was swamped. We had fun, and a little funny because people kept telling me about the '65 with an LSA and when I explained mine as a LSX based race engine they seemed confused. I tried to hide the engine when we built it, and apparently we did - even when the hood is open. lol.


Any idea how many cars were there Mark?

Not sure. A lot. I'm still seeing photos of cars I missed. AND I met the Wolfman from Hilarious House of Frankenstein. All round awesome. The show was 2 halls smaller. But that is because they didn't have many Imports, which I personally did not like. The tradition car scene needs new blood. But not everyone sees it that way.

On the subject of the truck, I'm about to do measurements for the next version of the chassis. Anyone want to know anything while I'm under it?

bovey
03-29-2015, 07:09 PM
So, spring is here and I'm cleaning. Found my old rotors - below. Let's consider it a nice reminder that those fancy drilled rotors seem like a good idea until you do a track day. I destroyed (cracked) them during a testing day last year. Now I know better.

I present a rusty expensive lesson sitting in a pile for my local scrappers to pick-up.

110792

bovey
04-13-2015, 05:53 PM
Planning. Planning. Planning. Reading. Researching. That has been the last few months.

This is the beginning of stage 2. The chassis. Sadly, money and time are not on my side this year, so I need to take a mid-step.

As you know I work with Ron Sutton. His advice last year made the truck work really great, keep in mind it's still mostly stock underneath. We've been talking the last while and the basic plan is a floater 9", some tougher spindles, bigger tougher brakes, etc. My needs changed last year after the Targa Newfoundland - I want to do more endurance runs. It's was addictive. Ideally, these new bits will move onto the new chassis and not end up a pile of extra parts. I'm tired of that. My garage is to full for that.

I'm also installing a Quicktime scatter shield, maybe swap in my spare new Spec3+, a new shifter, and a few other odds and ends that did not happen last year. But first winter needs to end and it needs to end soon - I have a track day in early May.

At the moment, I need to take measurements. A few to order parts and a few to see how things are currently bolted together. I'm curious to see of square the truck actually is, etc. I'm hoping doing some measurements might give me some insight into possible issues, before they become issues.

Again, my sponsors come to my aid. Performance Improvements has a large wearhouse, a building that once was a printing company, hence the floors are really level for the giant presses that once sat in here.
111447

Tools. I made the hands free square out of a $1 set square and a scrape piece of wood. I figured only having 2 hands would be an issue.
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Right or wrong, I'm not sure yet... I laid paper out to record all of my measurements. I don't like the flex and am going to put control measurements on the paper and also take a few hard measurements from body to compare and control the notes recorded on the paper.
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Here's that hands-free square doing it's thing, in this case finding chassis centre point or what I'm calling centre between the 2 lower control arm bushings. There is not a lot of space to work under this thing.
111451

And here are a few of the notes starting to take shape. I really only need track width and wheel base. But I'm going to mark out all of the wheel openings and major body parts just to see where things are in relation to the centre of the chassis. Hights of these points will be marked too.
111446

Tomorrow the wheels come off and I'll complete this little exercise. Then fun parts can arrive. These parts will not make it faster, but it will be safer and ideally more consistent.

bovey
04-16-2015, 05:55 AM
111544


So, the stud spun. The knurl is fubar.

I have to double check, but I doubt I can get the caliper off to remove the rotor and wheel as one. I may be able to grind off the back of the stud, I can touch the head with my finger, so I think I can fit a burr and die grinder in there.

The head is rounded so it's tough to get vice grips on.

As an added bonus, the threads seem to be the culprit, so the nut does not turn easily.

Normally, I use hand tools. But today I had an impact. Should have known better. My fault.

Ideas?

Big thanks.

GEARBOXGARAGE
04-17-2015, 08:31 AM
You could remove the spindle nut and take the whole assembly out as one piece (wheel, rotor, caliper, may be tricky with the wheel clearance) and either grind the head of the lug off from the back side and drive it through or weld the head of the stud to the rotor and unbolt the lug nut. Don't know if the heat will bother the rim though?

bovey
04-17-2015, 04:44 PM
You could remove the spindle nut and take the whole assembly out as one piece (wheel, rotor, caliper, may be tricky with the wheel clearance) and either grind the head of the lug off from the back side and drive it through or weld the head of the stud to the rotor and unbolt the lug nut. Don't know if the heat will bother the rim though?

Agreed. I think I can get at the head of the stud with a burr and a die grinder. Or I may try drilling the nut, by working my way up from smaller to larger drill bits and split off the nut.

Based on how hot I've had the brakes, I think the wheels will be okay with a bit of heat!

bovey
04-22-2015, 07:32 PM
111921

A guy on the Targa Truck's facebook page suggested drilling the nut and splitting it. Never thought of that approach. So I tried it. Sacrificed a few drill bits, 4 to be exact, but the nut was off in about 45 minutes. Once you get the hang of drilling along the edge of the threads, it quick.

The problem arrises when you break through the beveled back side of the nut, the drill bit catches, the stud spins and breaks the drill bit. 2nd and 4th time where the charms. After that I just wedged a cheap small screw driver between the nut and the stud and the nut broke in two.

Done and it's not 5AM AND I'm not bleeding. Amazing.

brawls43
04-23-2015, 05:08 AM
The not bleeding part is really amazing! Congrats!:cheers:

bovey
04-24-2015, 10:07 AM
Spring! WOO HOO

https://youtu.be/elw_ZA0cFg4

bovey
04-25-2015, 07:26 PM
Well crap. Blasted through all of my fixing tonight in record time. New front brakes, oil change, sorted a wiring issue. Amazing.

Then I tried to put the wheels back on.

My 18x10s will not fit over the snout of the new Raybestos rotors. Fine. So, I toss on my back-up set of 18x9s, but they require a spline drive adaptor that isn't deep enough for the new ARP studs.

It's a Murphy's Law smack down.

No autocross for me tomorrow... time for tea. G-night.

112029

Peter Mc Mahon
04-26-2015, 03:45 AM
What is a spline drive adapter?

brawls43
04-26-2015, 04:38 PM
Did the hub size change and now they don't fit the hub bore of the 18x10 wheels?

bovey
04-28-2015, 05:32 PM
Hey everyone, the truck is in the news again, this time along side a kid's book about cars and a 1000mph monster. Please check it out.

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/crowd-funding-got-these-wild-ambitious-car-projects-rolling

dlebo
04-29-2015, 07:42 AM
Awesomesauce

bovey
04-30-2015, 07:28 AM
Discovery Channel has released a video for MegaSpeed Season 2 - we made the edit. Just a blip, by the looks of this we needed to crash to get more screen time. NO THANK YOU. lol. Still a very cool and fun experience to work with a tv crew.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYbp9lKNDw8

bovey
05-04-2015, 08:53 PM
By day 3 of the Targa Newfoundland the shifter was getting wonky. By the fifth day - down right sloppy. Finally had the chance to take it apart.

112363

The left bolt is holding on by 1 thread. There is zero support on the left side of the shifter. The right bolt is backed out about 3 threads. BOTH bolts had the factory bolt locking mechanisms on, as installed by Tremec. The Targa is tough. Loctite everything, no matter what.

no1udknow
05-06-2015, 06:00 AM
Bovey, I wonder if I might trouble you for some info on your camber caster setup?

I am running stock a-arms, 3" lowering spring in the front, 5" spring in the rear. I will be running the simple steel rally wheels with 275/60/15's for now, but I wan't to setup for carving twisties and a little autocross. Your thoughts? How did you come up with your setup, and how different would it be from what I shoudl do given that I have a short bed and different sized tires?

bovey
05-07-2015, 05:29 AM
HELP! It's been a couple of weeks of work, and the last week has been late, late nights. Finished up everything last night, dropped the truck on the ground a 3AM - too late for a test drive. I started it everything was great, but NO RUNNING LIGHTS. NO dash lights. NO interior Lights. Headlights - yes. turn signals - yes. Headlight switch? There is that switch for the brake petal. Or a ground..., I hope it's not a ground.

I have a track day tomorrow. I cannot be up late tonight, sleep is needed... Any ideas???

Thanks in advance,
Bovey

bovey
05-10-2015, 06:56 PM
Bovey, I wonder if I might trouble you for some info on your camber caster setup?

I am running stock a-arms, 3" lowering spring in the front, 5" spring in the rear. I will be running the simple steel rally wheels with 275/60/15's for now, but I wan't to setup for carving twisties and a little autocross. Your thoughts? How did you come up with your setup, and how different would it be from what I shoudl do given that I have a short bed and different sized tires?


My first thought is this. Just do it. Your current tire selection is not going to work in your favour, but so what. Just go for it, but start off easy as, it's going to be greasy on those tires - especially when they get hot. Also, as your truck is a short bed, you are better off than my set-up. AutoXing with a long bed requires me to take a freaky line.

As for my set-up, I have a fantastic shop called Can-alignment Motorsports. He works magic. I asked him about setting up my truck and this is what he said (cut and pasted his words exactly):

- The camber is set to tire manufacturer recommended. -2.5
- Caster has many considerations also taking into consideration not creating bump steer.
- The front toe is set to maximize tire life but allow for a good turn in.
- The numbers are less important but how the system works is what matters and the use of the vehicle.
- That is the magic.

My 2 cents on the subject is this. Every combo works differently, your driving style also affects the set-up. Find a good race shop that will work with you. As you are running a truck, talk to them first. I always judge my shops on how accepting they are of working on a truck, because some believe they have no place on a track - I avoid people like that at all costs. Fortunately, I've met some good people who wanted to see if it was possible to make my monster work - and it does.

Give'r hell.

Bovey

bovey
05-19-2015, 08:08 PM
Had the truck out tonight doing some work. My son's school needed a couple of loads of topsoil for some new planters they had built. Tomorrow they are planting flowers and vegetables.

Because race truck.

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Peter Mc Mahon
05-20-2015, 07:23 AM
Always nice to see a truck doing work!

Centerforce
05-20-2015, 07:26 PM
We obviously would love it if you were running a Centerforce clutch (http://www.centerforce.com/home) (and if you ever want to change, give us a PM), but we love the Targa Truck and it's awesome to see it getting some work done.

Peter Mc Mahon
05-21-2015, 04:42 AM
Any chance of making it to the car show that I had mentioned to you Mark? Sunday June 14 from 11-2 at the TMMC Woodstock parking lot.

no1udknow
05-21-2015, 07:24 AM
Thanks, I get what you are saying. There are no "magic numbers" just what feels good. I am thinking I might come up a bit on my springs, to 2"front, 4" rear. I feel the rear hitting the bump stops sometimes and I don't like it. I also need to figure out something for shocks, as stock street shocks arent cutting it. I am pogo-ing here and there. I am not expecting the truck to hanldle like a porche, I just want smooth weight transfer, and to stick to the road.

bovey
05-24-2015, 04:52 PM
We obviously would love it if you were running a Centerforce clutch (http://www.centerforce.com/home) (and if you ever want to change, give us a PM), but we love the Targa Truck and it's awesome to see it getting some work done.

Thank you. I've intentionally built this thing tough so I can avoid owning a tow vehicle and trailer and sometimes it being a truck is still super handy. I'll shoot you a PM regarding the clutch. I'm about to change my bell housing for a a scatter shield, and and do some other maintenance.



Any chance of making it to the car show that I had mentioned to you Mark? Sunday June 14 from 11-2 at the TMMC Woodstock parking lot.

Maybe. I've had a conflict come up. There is an amazing event in Picton that week-end. I was going to pass on it, because I love running at old air force base in Centralia, BUT the Centralia airport sold over the winter and the new owner has zero interest in continuing to let us race there. I'll let you know my plans when I know.


Thanks, I get what you are saying. There are no "magic numbers" just what feels good. I am thinking I might come up a bit on my springs, to 2"front, 4" rear. I feel the rear hitting the bump stops sometimes and I don't like it. I also need to figure out something for shocks, as stock street shocks arent cutting it. I am pogo-ing here and there. I am not expecting the truck to hanldle like a porche, I just want smooth weight transfer, and to stick to the road.

On shocks, Ron Sutton put his magic recipe in a set of Ride Tech HQ single adjustable shocks for me and they are great, not to mention wonderful bang for the buck. On the bump stops: Notch the rear frame rails - that is a must. If you want it to handle, you need to drop it a lot to get the CG in a better place. Most racing bodies have a max height (around 63") you also need to get under.

Zanie
05-24-2015, 05:06 PM
Had the truck out tonight doing some work. My son's school needed a couple of loads of topsoil for some new planters they had built. Tomorrow they are planting flowers and vegetables.

Because race truck.

113055

That is very cool!!!

bovey
05-26-2015, 09:43 PM
113338

A few weeks ago, I was invited to a track day at Mosport, AKA Canadian Tire Motorsports Park, the Grand Prix track. This is not just any track, some scary blind corners, 166 feet of elevation change over a 2.459-miles. Full FIA for LeMans racing and NASCAR races here regularly. Jackie Stewart apparently really liked this place. The racing line is the same as when the track was opened in 1961, but it has been widened and more safety features built in.

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I have wanted to do this track, but do not have the experience. The company hosting the day, Ewald Performance (MotoIQ) would not take no for an answer, and offered to find me a driving coach for the day. That turned out to be a guy named Scott, the head instructor for CASC, our version of the SCCA. He also owns a race shop called can-alignment motorsports.

This was a day I could not turn down.

This is a serious track, and while excited, I was nervous. It did not help when I pulled into the pits to find a fleet of GT3s, 2 Radicals, a few Vipers, including a Chrysler Engineer with a new GTS to play with... the crew was rounded out with a built C6, a Roush Mustang and a couple of NASCARS were testing....

113348

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113342

113340

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It was an amazing experience. My "learning laps" were done at 100mph and it felt slow, a Sunday drive. Being my first attempt, my times were not great and I need way more practice, but I was only 9 seconds off the guy with the GTR - so I was fine with that. It was an awesome day, Scott, my instructor and I took turns driving, he took me out for one session to show me "a little of my truck's capability" and it was shocking. While I want some fancier parts for safety, I need more practice driving. We went through 3 full tanks of gas. The best part? I drove the truck home in rush hour traffic without issue.

113346

Was is fun? kinda. Was it satisfying - 100000%. Have I been able to stop thinking about driving this track? No. I will be back asap.

Badbowtie383x
05-27-2015, 05:51 AM
I love the fact that your out there racing it and you didn't get the crazy state of the art frame and upgraded stuff right off the bat (not anything wrong with that) and just building it as you have time and/or money but just doing it with what you have. Its inspiring.

Dr G
05-27-2015, 08:19 AM
113346

Was is fun? kinda. Was it satisfying - 100000%. Have I been able to stop thinking about driving this track? No. I will be back asap.

The last picture says it all. That is what a Pro Touring truck should be all about!

AutoX_D21Hardbody
05-27-2015, 05:28 PM
Great build! Great thread!

bovey
05-28-2015, 06:41 AM
I love the fact that your out there racing it and you didn't get the crazy state of the art frame and upgraded stuff right off the bat (not anything wrong with that) and just building it as you have time and/or money but just doing it with what you have. Its inspiring.

Thanks. Don't get me wrong, I want the state-of-the-art chassis, but that is not in the financial cards right now. This thing is shockingly simple at this point. I do have a lot in the engine, to put up with the all-day track thing and drive it home (Usually 1.5 hours). I don't have space for a trailer or a hauler, nor do I want it. This thing is designed to be self-contained.

I'm also leary of the crazy chassis stuff, because there is so much jewelry out there. Fancy but low on substance. It's easy to fall into the trap of building something so nice, you are afraid of damage because they get caught up in the build and make something that is so far beyond usable, thus pro-fairgrounds is alive and kicking again. Each to their own, and if that's your thing, no problem - but I build my stuff to get used, either on the track or going to Home Depot. My chassis design (it's partially done) is going to be tough as nails and be able to take on apexes and pot-holes.

I know too many who wait and wait for the right vehicle, or parts or whatever and don't race. My thinking is I can practice, figure out the weak points and build the truck to suit my driving style and needs. And while I do have to put up with "hay bail" jokes every track day - by the end of the day the interest in the truck is always high. Actually, the guy with the 944 Race car asked me to trade at the end of the day at Mosport AND the Viper was driven by one of the engineers who designed it - he came by and talked too, that was a cool chat.



The last picture says it all. That is what a Pro Touring truck should be all about!

Thanks, I totally forgot I have a crappy cell phone video this photo - it's on the front straight. Coming out of turn 10 and hauling down this straight was fun. FUN. This is earlier in the day, so we were not pushing yet. My instructor was taking his daughter for a ride. But it does sound nice IMHO. FYI - 3" Flowmaster Delta 50s x2 with Vibrant GESI cats x2

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQWdnF0t2f8



Great build! Great thread!

Thanks. I like to build, drive and I'm a creative guy by trade, the truck is a a fun project for me on many levels. A cross between my interests and professional life. I'm not in the automotive side much, other than I do work for MINI on occasion. Here is a fun piece I did for them a few years ago. That's me getting out of that car at the end, we did not have the $ for a stunt driver, so I did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhM2ycWW8po

no1udknow
06-02-2015, 11:39 AM
On shocks, Ron Sutton put his magic recipe in a set of Ride Tech HQ single adjustable shocks for me and they are great, not to mention wonderful bang for the buck. On the bump stops: Notch the rear frame rails - that is a must. If you want it to handle, you need to drop it a lot to get the CG in a better place. Most racing bodies have a max height (around 63") you also need to get under.

Thanks, I was trying to avoid C-notching, but I don't think it is doable. I will be looking at a new wheel and tire package....someday. I am currently working on rebuilding my daily driver. I fell asleep behind the wheel and crashed it... so my 68 is my current dd. As soon as I am done rebuilding, I will be back on the project.

bovey
06-06-2015, 11:15 AM
For any of the Canadian followers, pick-up today's Saturday Star, it's available nationwide. I was out for brunch and took a timeout to read the Wheels section, and to my surprise the article included myself and the truck. Megaspeed Season 2 starts on June 25th. The Targa Newfoundland is Episode 3, according to this article. I'm still in disbelief I'm going to be on tv. So neat.

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bovey
06-08-2015, 06:57 PM
Where does a guy start. My rear brakes and I have had a sorted past, in fairness some of this past has been a part of the learning curve, most of the time learning the hard way. First pad knock back, then cracked rotors, and now this oddity.

I was volunteer driving instructing track newbies at one of my favourite tracks, DDT at Mosport. When we instruct, we get to hit the track for sessions as thanks. The truck worked great, but there was this odd noise, a slight rubbing vibrating noise. Sounded like the parking brake hanging up. Nothing serious, brakes felt good, no biggie. But I know better, any time that noise come from the rear of my truck and sounds like the parking brake... it. is. not.

Got home, no problem and took the wheels off. This is what I found. Somehow the bottom calliper bolt on both sides has mysteriously "made out" with the rotors on both sides. Not the top, just the bottom. (I have just balance the bolt in the rut for the photo.)

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My cooling ducts don't like being a third wheel, so they got in on the action. There was loads of clearance here, or there was when I built all of this.
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At this point, I'd like to add this brake set-up has been on my truck for 3 seasons now. The only thing that has changed in the rear axels, but even they have been in their for 3 major events without issue.

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Everything is straight, everything looks good. This is the calliper mounting point.
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The bolts stick through the backing plate, but they always have and this is how they come from Wilwood. Again, these have been like this for 3 seasons.

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Top calliper bolt on the left, bottom calliper bolt on the right. Clearly something is a miss.
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I have to guesses:
A) Too much axel end-play. Brakes feel fine, I'd assume if there was that much movement, I'd notice the pad knock back.

B) The axels are flexing? Why only the bottom bolts, everything is square. The ground off part of the bolt is on an angle, so maybe?

I so regret not going to a floater sooner, I've spent way to much $ on this 12 bolt... It can all be fixed, I have back-up parts ready to go. I'm going to shorten the bolts, clearance everything (again) and put everything back together and make sure no further damage is done before tossing on new rotors.

If anyone has any ideas, or Wilwood if you happen to have an opinion - that would be amazing.

bovey
06-08-2015, 08:29 PM
On a happier note. Discovery channel released a "making of" video moments ago. Check it out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDoVAQGIDhU

Peter Mc Mahon
06-09-2015, 04:52 AM
How are things looking for the Sunday car show at Toyota plant in Woodstock 11-2 ? I am guessing from word of mouth that we will have a good turn out if the weather holds. I will have my 56 F100 but unfortunately, it will be on a trailer leaking some kind of fluid. Hope to see you there.

bovey
06-11-2015, 10:14 PM
How are things looking for the Sunday car show at Toyota plant in Woodstock 11-2 ? I am guessing from word of mouth that we will have a good turn out if the weather holds. I will have my 56 F100 but unfortunately, it will be on a trailer leaking some kind of fluid. Hope to see you there.

Hey Peter, the brakes are back together. The wheels are on, even the front ones. For some reason, the C10 rotor castings seem to have changed this year and my wheels did not fit them. Nothing a date night with a 4 1/2" angle grinder can't fix. Just a slow process (keeping the heat down) of cutting back the front of the hub around the dust cap so it'll fit through the wheel opening.

113925

Good news is the wheels fit again.

113924

I just need to figure out how to get my son's child seat to fit between the containment seats...

But now. Sleep.

Peter Mc Mahon
06-12-2015, 04:36 AM
Good stuff! I just resolved my nagging brake issue where my rears [drums, I know, I know] would not work worth a damn. I put the shoes on backwards,,,,ouch.

Dr G
06-12-2015, 10:49 AM
Hey Peter, the brakes are back together. The wheels are on, even the front ones. For some reason, the C10 rotor castings seem to have changed this year and my wheels did not fit them. Nothing a date night with a 4 1/2" angle grinder can't fix. Just a slow process (keeping the heat down) of cutting back the front of the hub around the dust cap so it'll fit through the wheel opening.


Did you ever figure out that issue with the end of the bolt rubbing the rotor? I have been pondering that and the only logical thing I can think of is that some piece of debris got stuck between the rotor and the bolt. Though that does not quite explain the wear on the tip of the bolt. Gustave

bovey
06-12-2015, 03:10 PM
[/QUOTE]
Did you ever figure out that issue with the end of the bolt rubbing the rotor? I have been pondering that and the only logical thing I can think of is that some piece of debris got stuck between the rotor and the bolt. Though that does not quite explain the wear on the tip of the bolt. Gustave[/QUOTE]

Nope. Everything has loads of space and now, even more as I trimmed the bolts. Everything fits nice, is true, etc. I just put the damaged rotors back on as they will be fine for street driving. The track I was on was very technical and my bet is still on flexing/distortion.

I have video of the wheels flexing during the Targa, so I can only assume other parts, like the axels do it too.

Working hard to have the $ for a floater - this 12 bolt needs to go asap.

chevelletiger
06-13-2015, 10:08 AM
Mr.bovey,where did you buy the orange ducting for your brakes at?
Thank you.
Phil

bovey
06-13-2015, 03:55 PM
Mr.bovey,where did you buy the orange ducting for your brakes at?
Thank you. Phil

Hey Phil,

That orange tubing should be available at any place you buy stock car parts. I bought mine a Grisdale Racing, but that is in Canada. This stuff is made by Allstar Performance, it comes in three colours, black, grey and orange. Each colour handles a different heat load. Orange being the highest and most expensive. You can get a 10' roll for 100-150 bucks. Just google "Allstar brake duct cooling hose". Works great, wears great. But you need to cut it right or it will fray.

Badbowtie383x
06-13-2015, 04:28 PM
Bovey what's the rear brake rotors off of?

bovey
06-13-2015, 09:58 PM
Bovey what's the rear brake rotors off of?

It's a Willwood kit, the 12.19 version. If you're going to beat on your truck DO NOT get the drilled rotors. For street, anything works. Here read this, it has part #s solves to pad knockknack - the whole wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am. Any questions, just ask.

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/101080-Soft-Pedal-vs-Axle-Runout-solutions-Willwoods-(fixed-callipers)-on-a-12-bolt-GM?highlight=

In other news, the truck is clean. CLEAN. It's never clean. Too bad a simple wash doesn't remove stone chips and scratches.

114014

Hey Peter - see you tomorrow! We should be at the Toyota Plant in Woodstock by 11.

Badbowtie383x
06-15-2015, 08:01 PM
Thanks a ton Bovey.

Badbowtie383x
06-15-2015, 08:09 PM
Thanks a ton Bovey.

no1udknow
06-19-2015, 08:03 AM
Bovey, besides the roll cage do you have any other frame mods, (x-braces etc?) and how much stiffer did the roll cage make the truck? I am considering a roll cage, but not if I will be doing a bunch of frame mods, I was considering building a semi-bolt in roll cage so it could be removeable, but the only difference is that I want to keep the rear section seperate from inside the cab, I didn't want to put holes through the rear of the cab. Your thoughts?

bovey
06-21-2015, 08:51 AM
Happy Father's Day to everyone here at pro-touring.com and beyond. Hope you are getting grease under your fingernails with you dad this week-end. I sure was.

This photo is from 1998 when the 307 came out and the 350 was going in.

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shortrack
06-22-2015, 05:09 AM
Are you going to the Ontario 1500?

bovey
06-26-2015, 06:05 AM
Bovey, besides the roll cage do you have any other frame mods, (x-braces etc?) and how much stiffer did the roll cage make the truck? I am considering a roll cage, but not if I will be doing a bunch of frame mods, I was considering building a semi-bolt in roll cage so it could be removeable, but the only difference is that I want to keep the rear section seperate from inside the cab, I didn't want to put holes through the rear of the cab. Your thoughts?

No other frame mods, other than the northern winter road salt frame lightening technology, AKA rust. Just a stock frame, with a 'cage welded to it. Mine is welded directly to the frame behind the rear axel. The cab is sandwich plated (bolted) and with bottom braces welded to the frame.

As for your semi-bolt in cage.

If you need a cage, you need a cage. If you don't - don't do it.

Inside the cab, you will not have space for anything "bolt-in" that would be safe. Not to say you can't build a bolt together cage that might be safe, but I doubt you'll be able to tuck it close to the interior body. You need to tuck the cages in these trucks as much as you can - you want the cage as far away from your head as you can get it. You'll really need to think about seat style and hight too. Take a look back at my cage photos. In most cases, except the front A pilar down bars, there is less than a 1/4" between the body and the tubing, sometimes an 1/8".

I'm 6 feet tall and my seating position is not 100%, but I'd rather be safe than comfortable. Think about what your knees can hit, your head, etc. Check with your sanctioning bodies for their requirements. Mine is 1 3/4" .120 DOM mild steel.

Take a loot at Smitty's red C10 for how he did his rear bars. And I can't recall what Rob did on the C10R. A few guys run low back down bars to tie in the cage to frame. Keep in mind that unless the down bars have a proper angle and tie into the frame behind the rear axel, rigidity will suffer.

I see no reason why you couldn't sandwich plate your rear down bars through the body, but I doubt it'll pass any serious tech scrutineer. I researched many cage designs and spoke with my main two racing bodies for approval. As my truck sits, it will pass Targa Newfoundland, CASC, SCCA and it's good for the 175 MPH class with the ECTA (LSR racing).

As mentioned throughout my thread, Ron Sutton has been advising me on my build. He has been fabulous. When we spoke about doing 'cages, he doesn't like swing out bars, and as few bolts as possible, with exception to the sandwich plated floor. He told me that at the time, once a cage goes in, it almost never comes out in his experience - unless you wreck the car/truck. It gets done once. Ron is on tour this summer with a new book, I highly recommend taking the one day course. I'm going to try to get to the LS Fest date.


I'd also suggest you read the safety thread below. Loads of great info in here. This thread and some others in the safety part of the forum changed the way I build. And after seeing a friend of mine crash a few weeks ago and walk away un-scratched - I'm glad I did.

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/103597-Safety-for-Pro-Touring-Track-Cars

As for the x-braces and what not. Have you looked at the original Hotchkis Test Truck? Here is a good article on it.

http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/hrdp-1303-start-to-finish-mike-hickmans-1968-chevy-c10/

Opinions on this subject will vary, and I have chosen to build my truck a certain way because of how I use it. Big fast tracks, open road racing, no trailer. Should I ever make a mistake, I want to be able to rebuild and do it again.

Peter Mc Mahon
06-30-2015, 07:13 PM
Bovey, I'm just back from holidays [went to the Isle of grease under the finger nails] and wanted to say THANK YOU! Mark was kind enough to come out the the first annual show and shine at Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada [where the Rav 4 is built] benefitting the United Way and show his awesome Targa Truck. 3 hours of rain didn't stop the Targa truck, and the crazies that decided to turn out to stand around in the rain sure appreciated it. Mark is the one with the nice boots and I'm the guy with the drool. His truck was very inspiring to me and helped me push through my holidays and get mine on the road. Thanks again Mark for supporting a great cause and the fine folks at the United Way would like to say thanks as well.

Badbowtie383x
07-02-2015, 07:38 PM
Ron is on tour this summer with a new book

Do you know what book I couldn't find anything ?

bovey
07-03-2015, 06:57 AM
Are you going to the Ontario 1500?

As of this week. No. Sadly. I've broke too much stuff this year. Have you had the Chevelle out much? I need to see that thing in action.



Ron is on tour this summer with a new book

Do you know what book I couldn't find anything ?

His book is called - "Seven Secrets to Suspension Set-up and Tuning." I've attached a couple of pages of the brochure he sent me via e-mail.

For you guys (and gals) reading my thread who are like me. Building at home, buying parts, expensive parts and need some guidance on what to do and where to put you hard earned $. Ron is fantastic. When I first started researching building a long box, almost everyone said it couldn't be done. Ron on the other hand said "We can make it work better than you can imagine." It'll never be a Mustang or a Camaro, or a Vette - we all know that. I also had questions that others were not willing to get into regarding bearing loads, etc. Ron was willing to talk, explains things very well and is a nice guy. And my truck does things it should not do with his simple suggestions. His advice is worth every penny. I'm trying to figure out how to get to his seminar in just before LS Fest.

Knowledge mixed with driving lessons and the right parts are the keys to fast.

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bovey
07-08-2015, 07:24 PM
Educational Update Time. Who's ready?

Here's hows this works, I make mistakes, break stuff, spend money and pass on the learning to you.

Sound good? Thought so.

In all seriousness, I got lucky. This could have be much, much worse.

I was doing an oil change, the last thing on my "to do list" before my dyno day. I was spinning on my nice new oil filter when I noticed a bolt was broken in my crank pulley. First thought, umm... Not good.
114836

So, I pulled out the 3 grade 8 bolts and found this. The bonus here is the last 1/4" of bolt number 2 is still in the balancer.

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The balancer that has had it's face stretched around. Check out the close up shots of the bolts that hold it together. Crazy.

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And then there is the back of the pulley, this is minor and can be fixed. At least the bolts backed out far enough as not to damage the pulley.

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So, I was totally confused as to what I did wrong. But quickly figured it out. This all came as a kit from Wegner Motorsport, a company that I have had great experiences with. They have been awesome and this front runner kit is an sexy piece of design. I also read the installation instructions on the ATI balancer*** because everything seemed normal according to the Wegner instructions.

***It should be noted that this is the first time I've ever read balancer instructions in my life. As my engine company put this on when they built it.

First, ATI suggests you should rebuild balancers on high HP engines. I had no idea. And, AND, the ATI instructions say to use THREAD LOCK on the pulley bolts. The Wegner instructions for the pulleys do not say this. My assumption is the bolts backed out because I did not use thread lock. Boo. A few drops of thread lock just cost me a bunch of cash and have made my truck a fancy broken thing on jack stands. But I'm learning new things, so we can call it even.

So, here is the good news. My speed shop rocks. I sent my guys at Performance Improvements my latest story of destruction and they had all the parts for me in a couple days, new ATI balancer and all new ARP bolts AND they even stock the installation tool for LS engines. The other good news is this was caught before it really broke at like 7000 rpm, worse yet on the dyno the next day.

I have also e-mailed Wegner to inform them they may want to include the thread lock note in their instructions. Again, I'm not calling foul here, just trying to help.

I'm officially thread locking everything just to be safe. I've knocked so much stuff apart in the last 12 months.

Now go outside and check your bolts on your crank pulley. I never would have thought to check. Thank goodness my remote oil filter is where it is.

Educational Update Complete.

There is a pop-quiz at the end of the week.

Dr G
07-09-2015, 05:44 PM
You are definitely on the bleeding edge regarding endurance testing of components!

bovey
07-10-2015, 05:48 AM
You are definitely on the bleeding edge regarding endurance testing of components!

Dr. G. Yes. Here is proof.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e6qlmlUSP4

Brigus, Newfoundland is a beautiful town, settled in 1612. But here is the kicker, the road were put in AFTER the houses. Beyond fun. And the wide angle nature of the GoPro masks how close we came to parking in a house.

Badbowtie383x
07-11-2015, 08:54 AM
Educational Update Time. Who's ready?

Here's hows this works, I make mistakes, break stuff, spend money and pass on the learning to you.

Sound good? Thought so.

In all seriousness, I got lucky. This could have be much, much worse.

I was doing an oil change, the last thing on my "to do list" before my dyno day. I was spinning on my nice new oil filter when I noticed a bolt was broken in my crank pulley. First thought, umm... Not good.
114836

So, I pulled out the 3 grade 8 bolts and found this. The bonus here is the last 1/4" of bolt number 2 is still in the balancer.

114837

The balancer that has had it's face stretched around. Check out the close up shots of the bolts that hold it together. Crazy.

114838
114839

And then there is the back of the pulley, this is minor and can be fixed. At least the bolts backed out far enough as not to damage the pulley.

114840

So, I was totally confused as to what I did wrong. But quickly figured it out. This all came as a kit from Wegner Motorsport, a company that I have had great experiences with. They have been awesome and this front runner kit is an sexy piece of design. I also read the installation instructions on the ATI balancer*** because everything seemed normal according to the Wegner instructions.

***It should be noted that this is the first time I've ever read balancer instructions in my life. As my engine company put this on when they built it.

First, ATI suggests you should rebuild balancers on high HP engines. I had no idea. And, AND, the ATI instructions say to use THREAD LOCK on the pulley bolts. The Wegner instructions for the pulleys do not say this. My assumption is the bolts backed out because I did not use thread lock. Boo. A few drops of thread lock just cost me a bunch of cash and have made my truck a fancy broken thing on jack stands. But I'm learning new things, so we can call it even.

So, here is the good news. My speed shop rocks. I sent my guys at Performance Improvements my latest story of destruction and they had all the parts for me in a couple days, new ATI balancer and all new ARP bolts AND they even stock the installation tool for LS engines. The other good news is this was caught before it really broke at like 7000 rpm, worse yet on the dyno the next day.

I have also e-mailed Wegner to inform them they may want to include the thread lock note in their instructions. Again, I'm not calling foul here, just trying to help.

I'm officially thread locking everything just to be safe. I've knocked so much stuff apart in the last 12 months.

Now go outside and check your bolts on your crank pulley. I never would have thought to check. Thank goodness my remote oil filter is where it is.

Educational Update Complete.

There is a pop-quiz at the end of the week.

Thanks for sharing all your experiences. We love the pictures and information. Preordered the book. Since I won't have the time to go to a workshop. Would love to go to SEMA. Are you going to any of them?

bovey
07-15-2015, 01:22 PM
The day has finally come. Tomorrow the Targa Newfoundland Megaspeed episode airs on Discovery Channel in Canada. If you can share Targa Truck's post on Facebook, that would be a huge help. Ratings are everything apparently.

For the US, there is a rumour the show might be getting released. If it does not, we will be finding a away to get the episode to our friends south of us.

115096

bovey
07-26-2015, 08:31 AM
Thanks for sharing all your experiences. We love the pictures and information. Preordered the book. Since I won't have the time to go to a workshop. Would love to go to SEMA. Are you going to any of them?


No problem, I find sharing this stuff helps me figure out what to do next.

Glad you found Ron's book. I find him very helpful. And yes, I have bought a ticket for his workshop prior to LS fest.

Not sure what other events I'm doing this year. I do plan on going to the PRI show in December. Or I think it's in December.

bovey
08-07-2015, 08:16 PM
It's time to get a few things sorted. I've never pulled the balancer off an engine mated to a stick. Hmm... some use piston stops, but that seems like a sketchy plan. So, I made this to attach to the balancer and wedge into the frame. It took a bit of work, but I can also use it to hold the engine while torquing the new stuff.

If you make one, remember to leave room to get the socket in and out. The stock GM bolt is a 6 point 24mm and the ARP Bolt is a 12 POINT 27mm.

115837

115833

It worked great, had everything apart in no time flat. Presenting my latest offering to the Speed Gods.

115834

Everything went so smoothly, I quit while I was ahead. Over dinner I read and re-read the ATI instructions as this is what tripped me up and put me in this mess in the first place. Use thread lock, you need both blue and red. My waitress asked if I was studying for an exam. Sorry cutie, I'm well past my exam years. LOL.

115835


As mentioned earlier in the thread, I am fortunate to have some people looking out for me and helping. I would never have made it though the Targa Newfoundland without Performance Improvements, and time and time again, they get me what I need faster than I can put it on. They even had the LS installation tool in stock. Very handy.

115836

Dr G
08-08-2015, 04:58 PM
I've only once had to remove a balancer from an engine installed in the vehicle. That was on my old BMW E30 M3. For that I made a little tool that bolted to the bell housing and engaged a few teeth on the flywheel to keep things from moving. I like your idea too. I've have to remember that one.

For the M3 the torque spec on the crank bolt was 300 ft lbs or something ridiculous like that. I still have the 4 ft long 3/4" drive breaker bar I used to loosen and tighten that bolt. I've not used it since. And that was for a 2.5L 4-cylinder engine. Granted, it rev'd to 8000 rpm and vibrated like crazy. Everything on that engine would shake loose eventually.

Gustave

bovey
08-10-2015, 05:28 AM
I would have preferred to use a tool on the flywheel. But my current bell housing doesn't have and inspection plate. I'm also going to be putting a SFI scatter shield on it soon, and it doesn't have an inspection hole either. So, this will just be a handy tool to have for the future, but I don't ever want to use it again.

An E30 M3 - people are pinning for those now. A friend of mine has an E30 track car with a 302 and a 5 speed. Crazy fun, crazy fast.

Dr G
08-10-2015, 08:17 AM
An E30 M3 - people are pinning for those now. A friend of mine has an E30 track car with a 302 and a 5 speed. Crazy fun, crazy fast.

I always wanted to install one of those mini-V8's out of the UK. The ones built out of a pair of Hayabusa motorcycle engines. Small, lightweight and super high revving. Then I wanted to turbocharge it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/08/hayabusah2v8twinturboengine-1.jpg


In the end I got promoted at work, had no time to work on the car and sold it as a project with half a mil-spec wiring harness. I do miss it sometimes...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/08/gspm340willow4-1.jpg

bovey
08-17-2015, 07:17 PM
It's a nice night so I was putting things back together. It's very close to firing up again.

Then I realized today was our anniversary. Can't believe I've been bashing on this thing for 27 years.

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Badbowtie383x
08-20-2015, 04:35 PM
It's time to get a few things sorted. I've never pulled the balancer off an engine mated to a stick. Hmm... some use piston stops, but that seems like a sketchy plan. So, I made this to attach to the balancer and wedge into the frame. It took a bit of work, but I can also use it to hold the engine while torquing the new stuff.

If you make one, remember to leave room to get the socket in and out. The stock GM bolt is a 6 point 24mm and the ARP Bolt is a 12 POINT 27mm.

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It worked great, had everything apart in no time flat. Presenting my latest offering to the Speed Gods.

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Everything went so smoothly, I quit while I was ahead. Over dinner I read and re-read the ATI instructions as this is what tripped me up and put me in this mess in the first place. Use thread lock, you need both blue and red. My waitress asked if I was studying for an exam. Sorry cutie, I'm well past my exam years. LOL.

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As mentioned earlier in the thread, I am fortunate to have some people looking out for me and helping. I would never have made it though the Targa Newfoundland without Performance Improvements, and time and time again, they get me what I need faster than I can put it on. They even had the LS installation tool in stock. Very handy.

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Love the idea of that brace bar. I'm going to have to still that idea from you if you don't mind sir.

bovey
08-31-2015, 07:47 AM
Badbowtie383x - have at it. Just remember to leave clearance for the socket. Mine worked great for installing the balancer too.
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I had just enough room to get the torque wrench in. Remember stock GM crank bolts are single use, AND you use it to seat the balancer. I went ARP all the way on the new installation.
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I did make one mistake, the instruction say to put the balancer together before installing it. I did not, so I lined up there three bolts to help slide that balancer on the hub. Surprisingly, it worked perfect. I tweaked them and I could slide the balancer on and off the hub smooth as butter.
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I was thrashing to get the truck back together, because I had been invited to the Hyper Meet - it's a Subaru show... I reminded them that my '71 GMC was not a Subaru. They didn't seem to care. So...
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This meet is actually held at Subaru Canada's headquarters. A few of the bigwigs from Subaru stopped by and chatted about the truck they were super nice. Overall, the response from the import gang was fantastic. I had a great day.
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There were some fun rides. This Miata is going to be a Monster when finished. LS3/t56 - hope he has his chassis sorted...
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I'm a WRX fan when they aren't too Importy looking. I like this generation the best.
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And finally my show favourite. A Brat. I had the Tamiya R/C version of this when I was 8. So awesome. This one had factory jump seats in the back!
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Currently, the truck is getting a once over by my set-up shop Can-Alignment, to make sure it'll survive the next adventure.

Next Week. Ron Sutton's class and LS Fest in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

Who's gonna be there?

bovey
09-10-2015, 09:06 PM
In typical fashion, it was a thrash to the bitter end. I have been having issues with my fan controller. Originally, the Big Stuff 3 handled it, but due to a faulty relay, I damaged the fan circuit. And due the the repair cost, I went with a stand alone fan controller. HOWEVER, fan controllers are NOT created equal.

TIP: those typical ones people use are good for 8 AMPs. My twin SPALS do a 100AMP kick when they start and run at 50 AMPS, no wonder I was burning up controllers. I'll do a proper tech update soon.

After the electrical upgrades checked out - I packed up and took off on a 843 mile drive to LS Fest. Took 2 days to drive to Kentucky. The truck is a nice drive, but it gets very hot inside and my butt cannot handle the containments seat in normal driving conditions for that long. And oh yeah, getting it through the border was entertaining. Spent 15 minutes give the US customers officer a guided tour, then as he was about to let me go, he noticed the "FIRE" pulls for the suppression system.

Anyway. Some photos.

People always comment how big my truck is, but new trucks are massive.
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These boxes are full of spare parts, I need to haul the stuff I could break. No trailer means the truck must work (well enough) to get me home... BUT MAN, my first hotel did not have an elevator.
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One of my favourite things about America? You can get waffles and pancakes almost anywhere, anytime. So good. P.S. The hospitality of the people is Ohio was lovely.
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And here we are on Day 1 - Ron Sutton's Suspension Seminar. It was brain melting, but awesome.
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Ron is super passionate and gets into his presentations. And his demonstration of roll centre changed me forever. (Not pictured).
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Tomorrow LS Fest officially starts. While I came down on my own, the kind people of SDPC have taken me in and are super, super nice. If you are at LS Fest, the truck is going to be in the SDPC booth, please say hi. I'll have posters to give out at some point.

And John, Cassie, Mike and Jesse nice to meet you today. Glad you are enjoying the thread.

Dr G
09-11-2015, 08:32 AM
In typical fashion, it was a thrash to the bitter end. I have been having issues with my fan controller. Originally, the Big Stuff 3 handled it, but due to a faulty relay, I damaged the fan circuit. And due the the repair cost, I went with a stand alone fan controller. HOWEVER, fan controllers are NOT created equal.

TIP: those typical ones people use are good for 8 AMPs. My twin SPALS do a 100AMP kick when they start and run at 50 AMPS, no wonder I was burning up controllers. I'll do a proper tech update soon.

Do you have a flyback diode spliced into the fan power circuit? I toasted a very expensive solid state relay before I learned to add the diode. The fan relay is PWM (pulse width modulate) controlled by my ECU, so that the fan speed is continuously variable from zero to full speed.

I used to us a Spal fan controller but could never get it to work correctly.

Gustave

67MAL
09-11-2015, 12:51 PM
Great talking to you today, Mark.

Malcolm

bovey
09-12-2015, 07:26 PM
It's been really cool meeting everyone from pro-touringdotcom. If you are around on Sunday, I have some posters to give out tomorrow. More than likely between rounds of the 3G challenge.

bovey
09-16-2015, 06:38 AM
I got home last night after a two day drive back from LS Fest. So. Much. Fun. I met so many great people.

I'm not 100% sure how to break it up to share here, I think there will be two or three posts.

Here are a few photos from my the adventure.

The trucks (and cars) were awesome.
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My truck hanging out with the much, much faster cars. The stock suspension and my lack of seat time were painfully obvious, BUT OMG, FUN. This is the baseline, It can only get better. HA.
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In Kentucky, and with a 15 hour drive home - what's another 4 hours to pop over to Tennessee.
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I have to process a pile of photos, back soon.

woodside783
09-17-2015, 07:23 AM
going to come back next year?

bovey
09-17-2015, 08:32 AM
going to come back next year?

I'd like too. The truck is not, NOT set-up for events like LS Fest. But that was why I went.

I had an amazing time. I'm looking at the events for next year and going to figure out what I can do.

I need to kick the chassis up a few notches. I've demanded too much of stock chassis components for too long.

andrewb70
09-17-2015, 09:13 AM
Mark,

Awesome truck and it was cool running into you in the Holiday Inn parking lot.

Andrew

bovey
09-18-2015, 07:11 AM
Mark, Awesome truck and it was cool running into you in the Holiday Inn parking lot. Andrew

Woah. I just made the connection between you (here) and the car in the parking lot (there). Super cool meeting you, I love that car, it made my week-end. That parking lot was a show in itself. I took some photos, I'll post them in your thread.

bovey
09-21-2015, 05:11 PM
We chatted with LSXtv at LS Fest. They stuck a camera on the truck for a 3G run. Word of warning, my launch is not pretty - I could not get this thing to hook... it seems that the changes I've made to make it turn destroyed my ability to launch it. My attempts at drag racing where embarrassing. Anyway, page 1 - bottom.

http://www.lsxtv.com/race-coverage/drag-racing-event-coverage/same-day-coverage-2015-holley-ls-fest-at-beech-bend-raceway/

bovey
09-24-2015, 06:45 AM
LS Fest - take 1.

This was the year for me to do LS Fest. The truck was not strong enough for the other competitions I wanted to do, but I figured I could make it tough enough to survive the drive and get it home, or close enough to home to take the risk.

The truck had been on jack stands for the entire summer, broken stuff from the Targa Newfoundland and a few other sins had caught up wit me. Back together and working 98% correctly, I just had to figure out a fan controller issue, which I solved at 11PM the night before I left.

With everything seemingly in working order, I took off for the 843 mile trip to Kentucky. Outside of having to do a "Get out and host a guided tour of the truck at the border", everything went smoothly. I think the border guards were just more curious than anything.

When traveling to the United States of inexpensive high octane fuel America, you always time your gas with a Sunoco just over the border.
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I love road trips, the only downside would be carting the boxes of parts in and out of hotels, sadly my hotel in Ohio did not have an elevator. In the words of Sgt Roger Murtaugh: "I'm to old for this...". Moral of this story is always ask about an elevator before paying.
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I love America's love of Waffles and Pancakes. They don't get the same respect back home.
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The trip went fine, I arrived on time. Day one in Bowling Green was Ron Sutton Race Technology's Suspension Seminar. It was awesome, Ron has an amazing way of explaining things. It was a full, no extremely full day of knowledge. I believe his next on is in Texas, go if you can. Great guy, super nice.
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Scoggin Dickey Parts Center sponsors LS Fest. I had mentioned to them I was coming, so they asked if I'd park the truck in their booth. I obviously said yes. It was the fanciest trailer I've ever been able to store my stuff in. They were super nice and we ended up hanging out at night. Good group of people, super honoured they supported my Targa Newfoundland adventure last year.
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Also, parking with not one but two COPO Camaros was very cool. They also had some awesome engines to drool over.
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The weather was a bit sketchy on Friday and the racing stopped so I ended up in the tower in an interview with Chad of Bang Shift, we had a fun chat about the Targa Newfoundland. He's as fun in real life as he is on TV.
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The machines in attendance where amazing. This is my first time seeing these cars in the flesh, super cool to meet the owners and take a closer look. Very happy to see these vehicles are used and not perfect. I have a pile of photos of these cars being driven in anger.
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More soon.

bovey
10-06-2015, 05:59 PM
Classic Trucks Magazine shot a little video of the truck running autoX in the rain at LS Fest. Check it out.

https://www.facebook.com/classictrucks/videos/10153129531739071/

2ndroundko
10-07-2015, 02:36 PM
so you said a few times that the stock frame isn't up to snuff anymore. whats the plan for this incredibly awesome truck? tube chassis?