CNG powered cars

[Bill Howell]

Yes, I know some will shake their head at this post, but remember, we all have lives outside of protouring. Also, I have been known to think outside the box more than once so that will help explain this. Recently I bought a vehicle that is a dedicated CNG unit. It had expired tanks but only 15K miles on the clock. It was just too cheap to pass up so now I am the proud owner of a 98 15 passenger Ford E350. I have no idea what I will do with it but recently our local utility district installed a fast fill station and currently I can buy a GGE for $2.02. I have become very educated about CNG vehicles in the past month and really love the cost of GGE vs. a gallon of gasoline. I ended up buying a big tank for the van but it will be used in other vehicles down the road (in the bed of a pickup for sure). Tanks are the expensive part of the conversion but since this van was a factory CNG, I figured nothing much could go wrong. It cranked on first turn after sitting since 2008. CNG doesn't gum up or go bad. The biggest draw back I can see is having to preplan trips as there isn't many fill stations in the southeast, but there are enough if you simply do some planning.

I am just curious how many in the pt world have owned or own a CNG vehicle for a daily driver?

[andrewb70]

No clue, but in for the discussion.

Bill, do you know what kind of mileage you're supposed to get with that van?

Andrew

[srh3trinity]

Our local police and fire dept are ng and we have a filling station a mile from my house. I drive about 100 miles a day and I have been tempted to source one or even a tdi for a daily. It is around 1.55-1.75 here.

[Bill Howell]

Andrew, CNG is measured, in part in btu so a GGE (Gallon gas equivent) is supposed to be about the same mpg as a gallon of gas. I won't know really until I actually get this van up to speed and make a short trip in it. I am just getting tires, sticking brake, abs issue fixed. New tank will be here this week. I am still running around on the 3/8 tank it had when I bought it. I have to empty tank before I remove it.

Long story short, there isn's supposed to be much difference in a gallon of gas and a gge of cng.

MPG according to edmonds is 12 to 14. We will see. I will be happy with 12

[Nothingface5384]

never heard of CNG conversions
some offroad guys do an LPG conversion
some guys have converted to electric motor or hybrid.
fuel cell would be something i'd look into later down the road as i'ma trade my rio5 in for a fuellcell car when they comeout next year!

[Tomswheels]

I've been kicking this around in my head for awhile, why couldn't I convert my 69 Barracuda with a 360 to CNG? I see cheap kits on EBay but would love to have something closer to the factory style versions. I'm willing to lose all my trunk space. Anybody see an old car converted correctly?

[Bill Howell]

I have read about a 442 converted and there are several videos on turning a car into a bi-fuel car on you tube. Some of the work (craftsmanship) showing the plumbing is scary. Remember we are talking about 3600 psi here, so I am a bit worried about shoddy work here. It can be done though. Yes, tank placement and volume is a key. That is why I am leaning toward pickup and this van to try it out. With the new tank I will have about a 450 mile range when finished if I can average just 12 mph. 38 gge at $2.02 per still makes a full fill less than $80. Works out to be pretty cheap transportation. If all goes well I will drive this to Heidt's for the event at the end of May just to do a test run with it. Looks like there is plenty of CNG fill stations along the way once I get to Louisville, Ky that are all open 24/7.

[Bill Howell]

http://www.cngchat.com/forum/showthread.php?11026-1972-442-converted-to-CNG-better-dollar-performance-than-a-Prius
here is the thread on the 442

[Bonehead]

My grandfather owned a LPG powered 1975 F150 that he bought new and was converted at a dealership in Rochester NY. Drove it till the mid 90s. Never had a lick of trouble with it. Didn't give it any thought back then, just thought it was a bit odd. Now I look back and wonder if he knew how much of a pioneer he was. Also wonder what possessed him to spend that kind of money on the conversion. He never had a dime to his name...

[Guyt699]

A local company to us has a shuttle service transporting from Birminham airport to Atlanta airport and use CNG vans for their business. A few years back we met with them to talk about CNG. They were very friendly and informative. During that time they were prepping a GTO that was CNG equiped to drive Route 66. The kits are fairly cheap but the tanks are expensive as Bill had said. You can also get a slow fill for your home. Here is a link to the GTO.
http://www.cngnow.com/vehicles/cng-conversions-gallery/pages/1966-pontiac-gto.aspx

Also, CNG is a lot cleaner and cheaper than gas but they say you only have about 85% of your original horsepower.

[1966longroof]

Bill, grew up with it on our Farm Pickups and Trucks back in Nebraska. No issues that I can recall.

[go-fish]

Like some others have said, seen it back home in farm country. As I am recalling it now they were all late-70's to mid-80's F-150s. I always thought it was something that miserly farmers did and they probably did a slow fill at home. There are plenty of propane ran homes and plenty of LPG/CNG delivery companies due to it being Oklahoma (lots of natural gas production).

I live in So. Cal now and Ford is at it again. I've noticed their small vehicles are rolling out with the option and they're advertising it. I was always aware that a random amount of government entities have used it (.gov, .mil, and local/state) but not across the board. Of coarse, mass transit has been using it for years as well.

I'm all for it and would love to get one for a daily. Maybe even convert a muscle car with a modern powerplant (ie. 6.1 SRT Hemi in my 'cuda???). Which brings up the question, for engines that have to run premium or a mix of race gas and pump fuel, will it work or should it be reserved for cars that require the minimum octane #'s?

[LeighP]

LPG powered cars and trucks are popular here in Australia. Fuel is much cheaper than gasolene...less than half the price.
What makes it convenient is that almost every filling station has LPG.
I've owned two daily drivers that run on LPF/Gas (you can switch back and forth)......very happy with them.

[Build-It-Break-It]

Be careful with mounting the cng bottles,direct sunlight and rock chips if stored under a vehicle. I use to work at a company that repaired LNG tankers and CNG/diesel hybrid big rigs. There's a lot of horror stories with the bottles exploding do to improper storage on vehicles and improper filing. The biggest draw back as stated before is filing stations and the cost of CNG tanks once they're no longer useable. Once you average out the price of the bottle replacement cost to fuel your probably paying the same as you would for a car that takes regular gas. Its like when the gas prices first started going up everyone went and bought a motorcycle to save on gas. Well good idea until you average out the monthly motorcycle payment and insurance. On top of that bad weather that you can't drive a motorcycle in and having to revert back to your car. We always had problems with the CNG conversions. I'd personally stay away from them. There's more bad then good with those vehicles, hence why you don't see a lot on the road or filing stations. Plus the government has a foot hold in gas so if those vehicles ever became more popular the price of CNG would go up. Just like diesel fuel.

[Bill Howell]

It has taken me a bit longer than I planned to get my van updated and upgraded. All CNG vehicles done before 2000 were set up for 3000PSI, so my van being a 1998 had to be replumbed, back to front. I have now run a tank of CNG through the pipes though and have to say I am very happy with MPG, it being a E-350. First tank proved 15.1 mpg, around town, no highway miles. It was also a pleasure to pay $2 per GGE on refuel. So, if you see me driving around in a 15 passenger van, alone, you now know why. I feel like I am stealing......lol

[GeoffP]

I have often wondered if my 2003 2500HD could be converted. GM apparently offered my truck with a CNG option because I get asked if it is CNG every time I visit the parts store. I would jump for joy if my truck got 15.1 MPG since it gets a best of 12 MPG on 10% ethanol on the highway and worse around town. I could use a break on my fuel costs even if there were a little investment up front.

[Bill Howell]

that "little" investment can run as much as $10K depending on tank size. you have to do the math as to miles left on vehicle vs savings for sure. That is why I picked a vehicle that was already a dedicated CNG, I just had to upgrade parts of it, but the hard work was done.

[79-TA]

My mom has a '98 Civic GX and it's a great little car. It does have a weak point though. Most mechanics and owners don't change the coalescent "high pressure" fuel filters often enough if at all. The one in my mom's car looked as if it had never been changed and 3 of the 4 fuel injectors were clogged badly as a result. With that straightened out, the car has been great.

In California, cars that came equipped from the factory with cng-only engines get to use the HOV lane until 2019. That in itself is its own form of savings on top of the good mileage and affordable cng.

[pro67coupe]

I think a diesel is the way to go personally. I bought my wife a 2012 jetta tdi and I love that thing. Nice interior its only advertised to get 42 mpg but I have a best of 51.8 driving to vegas with cruise control at 70 mph