What Sway Bars?

[Gratefuldiver]

Looking to get some input on sway bars. Im running a 72 GTO with stage 2 SC&C kit, 275/40/17 and 285/40/17 and Vari shocks. Right now Im running the classic Herb Adams bars on the front and rear. I like the way the front connects so that it is always engaged but hate the way the rear connects to the control arms. Those thing weigh a TON plus some and I think they are better for someone that drags. (My car launches straight as an arrow) The Spohn and BMR rear look nice the way they connect to the frame but the fronts seem very much stock. Can you guys share what you are running? Its mostly street driven with the exception of 5-6 Auto x events a summer. On a side note do those old Herb Adams have any value?

[wendell]

Describe "always engaged". What driving characteristic are you trying to correct or achieve? What are the diameters of the front and rear bars and what are their arm lengths.

[Gratefuldiver]

They don't use poly bushing on a bolt to attach to the LCR. They attach like the Ride Tech bars so they are always engaged. They are solid 1.5 front and rear with short arm lengths

[Gratefuldiver]

93498

[Nothingface5384]

I like the DSE rear and either DSE front splined or Ridetechs front Musclebar...muscle bar is same style but cheaper!

or hold out for front Swaybar for Hellwigs new front Bar(if your going with afx spindles)

[wendell]

Ok so one has a rod end linkage and the other has biscuits. What handling attribute are you trying to correct?

[Gratefuldiver]

What handling attribute are you trying to correct?

I dont really know that I need anything corrected, besides getting the rear off the control arms and on the frame rails. That and shed some weight. Hell for all I know I may be better to stick with what I have lol.

[jerome]

Shifting weight from unsprung weight to sprung weight is good, but I doubt it will make a noticeable difference in your case. I would make this change if you are unhappy with the balance of the car and are going to a different size bar, but it is probably not worth the money or effort if you are happy with the way the car handles at autocrosses.

[wendell]

If you don't know what you're trying to accomplish, you're probably not going to accomplish it. The few pounds of partially unsprung weight will be 100% unnoticeable.
Buy the lightest wheels you can afford as they are both I sprung and rotational weight.

[csouth]

I dont really know that I need anything corrected, besides getting the rear off the control arms and on the frame rails. That and shed some weight. Hell for all I know I may be better to stick with what I have lol.

Getting the rear arm off of the LCA's is a good idea. It will reduce the chances of bind during rear end articulation.

[Rod]

Getting the rear arm off of the LCA's is a good idea. It will reduce the chances of bind during rear end articulation.
?...from what i have seen (properly setup rear ends) most autocross cars articulate less than 6 degrees...and a sway bar is a controlled bind...

[Bonehead]

I have a set of front and rear Herb Adams bars for my 67 Chevelle. I always liked them, but yes they were heavy. Moroso used to carry that brand in the early 90s and up until recently had the replacement ends for the front bar. Not sure what they are worth, though I probably wont ever bolt mine back on.

[SS 454]

I have a set of front and rear Herb Adams bars for my 67 Chevelle. I always liked them, but yes they were heavy. Moroso used to carry that brand in the early 90s and up until recently had the replacement ends for the front bar. Not sure what they are worth, though I probably wont ever bolt mine back on.

Hello , I live in Germany . Is anybody interested in selling his front Herb Adams sway bar . I have 1971 chevelle and think it needs one ...........

[Gratefuldiver]

That would cost sooooo much to ship over seas.

[dutch55]

I have considerable experience with these parts.

Wendell asked the important question about what you are trying to accomplish, but one thing he said isn't correct. If you look closely at the picture, both ends have spherical rod end bearings. The ones that attach to the lower A-arm use the same holes where the stock rubber biscuits go.

The reason these bars are heavy is because these cars are heavy and need thick bars to controll roll during cornering. In general for high performance street and street/track cars about 2 3/4 to 3 degrees of roll is a good compromise. If you reduce the front and rear bar diameters to lighten them and don't change the effective leverage (i.e. shorten the length of the ends after the bends), the car will lean more. It is certainly possible to replace the rear bar with one with less weight (total and unsprung weight) that would be as effective, but unless you use an adjustable rear bar with enough range , or are prepared to buy several rear bars of different diamaters and have the experience and access to a skid pad or track where you can tune the rear bar stiffness, you are more likely to degrade the handling than to improve it.

Regarding the potential for binding, the diamater of the rear bar is bigger but is exactly the same as used on many production cars, and also exactly what was used on the 64 Tempest Herb's team used in the 1971 TransAm series. That car was capable of about 1.15G on a skid pad, about what an optimized resto-mod should be capable of on today's best street legal tires. The control arms on that car used spherical bearings at both end and there was no binding. The rubber bushings are designed to allow twist. Using tubular bushings in either end of the control arms (e.g. polyurethane or Delrin nylon with steel sleeves will definitely bind with or without a control arm mounted sway bar. But not with rubber bushings or spherical bearings.

I also agree with the recommendation to look at lighter wheels if you want to reduce unsprung weight.

[csouth]

?...from what i have seen (properly setup rear ends) most autocross cars articulate less than 6 degrees...and a sway bar is a controlled bind...

I read this in an article on pro-touring suspensions I believe n PHR. Its also in the description for Hellwig's ad for their pro-touring rear sway bars.....

[SS 454]

That would cost sooooo much to ship over seas.

Don`t care for that . I think for 100 to 150 dollar shipping it should fly around the world . If you are interested , we can talk about the sway bar price......................
Send me a mail

:drive2:

[Nicks67GTO]

Looking to get some input on sway bars. Im running a 72 GTO with stage 2 SC&C kit, 275/40/17 and 285/40/17 and Vari shocks. Right now Im running the classic Herb Adams bars on the front and rear. I like the way the front connects so that it is always engaged but hate the way the rear connects to the control arms. Those thing weigh a TON plus some and I think they are better for someone that drags. (My car launches straight as an arrow) The Spohn and BMR rear look nice the way they connect to the frame but the fronts seem very much stock. Can you guys share what you are running? Its mostly street driven with the exception of 5-6 Auto x events a summer. On a side note do those old Herb Adams have any value?

Why not just go with the Hellwig bars that are spec'd for the SC&C Stage II combo? They are hollow, light, adjustable in the rear, nicely powdercoated and are pretty inexpensive compared to some of the others. I run them on my 67' with the SC&C sage II chassis and so far so good.

[Gratefuldiver]

I thought about just keeping these as I cant really complain about them. That was until I was taking a pic and noticed something I really didn't like. It seems the end link is to long for a dropped suspension. I would think that you would want the at rest position to be pretty close to 90 deg but they are pointed down to about the max. Meaning they have no where to go but up.

93712

[Gratefuldiver]

So I actually talked to Herb himself today (that was pretty cool) but he thinks that modifiying the endlink to make it a little shorter should fix the problem and its something he has done in the past. I say the idea from an old post here.

[Gratefuldiver]

So can anyone see a BIG problem with the pic above. LMAO I feel like such a dumb ass. Its amazing I didn't twist or destroy my LCA!

[jerome]

The upper end link heim stud doesn't look perpendicular to the tab on the sway bar. Is the nut tight on the stud? The endlink would be alright if the stud were in the middle of the range of motion of the heim. I'd also bend or re-weld the tab on the end of the sway bar to be perpendicular to the sway bar.

[SS 454]

So can anyone see a BIG problem with the pic above. LMAO I feel like such a dumb ass. Its amazing I didn't twist or destroy my LCA!

you should search on google for " Herb Adams Sway bar " , you can see on the pics you get that the sway bar end tabs always go up and not down as on your car.

[Gratefuldiver]

you should search on google for " Herb Adams Sway bar " , you can see on the pics you get that the sway bar end tabs always go up and not down as on your car.

YA Dont belive everything you see on the internet. I did just that thinking I had my sway bar upside down lol. So I flip it install new heim joints and take a drive to get some beer (boy am I glad I did) No sooner then I pull in the drive way and shut off the car from the beer run. POW BAM SMASH WTF ever you want to call it the lower ball joint snaps in half. The sway bar was binding so badly after I fliped it I think it caused the joint to snap.

Im not sure what the pics on the internet are from but its not the proper way to install the bar on my car. I was able to dig up the 25 year old instructions and it backed up I had it installed correct to begine with, I just needed to shorten the Heim joints.

So I have ordered new studs for the lower Howes, dug up my old drum spindles to use after the mounting hole got screwed up and bought new Hellwig hollow bars for the front and rear. There is no problem with the Herb Adams but Im really ready to move on. They are more suited for someone with stock a-arms and ball joints, not a stage 2 set up.

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[alphaenvirmgt]

The HA bar should work fine for street/Autocross! It is NOT a drag only bar. I have one on rear of my 74 Z28 Camaro and love it!
Conrad