35th Anniversary 69 Camaro Build...

[Pont463]

I will begin by saying that I am building this car for me. I know most of you would never do things, or see things the same way I do, and that in itself it what makes every one of our cars different. I love the challenge of building a car differently, and thinking outside the box on near every aspect of the build. I will never bash anyone else's project or build idea, and would hope for the same respect from others. I am no beginner when it comes to fabrication and or welding/machining, as I run a small fab shop out of my garage. I have built many vehicles from tube chassis buggies to pro street race cars. I believe anything is possible, and sometimes the build itself is the enjoyment of the project.
With all of that out of the way, lets get on with the build..

I am starting with a 1969 Camaro that has seen better days. There are a lot worse cars out there, as well as being a lot of better ones, but this is the one I got.. In short, the car needs everything.

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As you can see from the pics, the car is in need of some love. The floorboards are gone, the doors, quarters trunk pan all toast. I don't have the front core support, or the fenders. Really, there isn't a whole lot here. But on the good side, the basic framework of the car is sound.

[Pont463]

After about a week of figuring and figuring out what the best method of madness should be, I decided that I wanted to do something a little different. I have always loved the 4th gen Camaros interior in the 1st gen, and figured that would be the way to go. I also decided that the LS1 engine and 6 speed trans would work out awesome. So. if I was going to pick up all these parts, would it make a bit more sense to just find a donor car? It would. Enter the 35th Anniversary 2002 Z28.
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This car had everything I needed. It had been backed into the wall along the interstate and was totaled, but the car was still somewhat drivable. It has nice Z06 wheels, and like new tires. Black leather interior in excellent shape, and the best is that the car only has 43k miles on it. I drove it home, and into the shop.

First things first.. I definitely wanted the motor, trans wiring harness and interior. So.. lets get this thing going..

[Pont463]

I started stripping the interior out of the car and separated the wiring harness one plug at a time, labeling everything as it came apart. I figured even if I took more harness than I needed, it could be modified later..
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Once everything had been removed from the interior, I needed to remove the motor and trans. I have removed many of them out of these cars, and know for what I am doing, the easiest way would be to take it out the bottom.. here we go..
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[Pont463]

After the engine, trans, and front suspension were removed, and the car supported on jack stands, I figured it would be time to remove the front doghouse so I could sell it a recoup some of the donor car price. I removed it all off of the car, and then sat back and looked at it a while. If I was going to run the 4th gen dash ect, wouldn't it be nice to have the heater/air conditioning system as well?.. so after careful thought, I removed it as well. Now I will be needing some of the firewall sheet metal, as well as the tunnel stuff to fit it all in the 69. This is where it all starts to go a bit different.. Why cant I just install the entire floor pan and fire wall out of the 2002 into the 69??.. break out the tape measure.
I know some of you would think this is way to far out, but I have completed this same type of swap into a 47 ford using a fox body mustang firewall and floor pan and it worked awesome.
I know the dash is the right width for the 69, as this swap has been done many times.. however what about the floor pan? Well, as it turns out, the pinch weld of the 69 at the front of the doors, is within a quarter inch of being the same as the pinch weld of the 2002.. Hmmm..
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I needed to install floor pans anyway, and this would help with that job anyway. So.. enter the plasma cutter. What would I need, and what could go.. The biggest issue I had initially was the fact that the firewall to dash distance was so much different. I needed to keep the relationship between them the same so the heater box ect would fit. So measure it all twice.. then again.. ok.. lets start cutting...
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[Pont463]

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With nearly everything removed from the cockpit panels, it was time to start the fit into the 69. I know my dash/firewall distance is very important here, so that will be the baseline of measuring. width wise, the pich weld at the front of the door opening on the 69, and the pinch weld at the rear of the door of the 69, is VERY close to the same width of the pinch weld running down the length of the 2002. Its time to open up the 69 for the new pans to fit.
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[Pont463]

From previous experience, I have found to do this with the least possible screw up potential, I needed to raise the 69 over the top of the 2002 and trim as I lower... I had hoped that this would go smoothly, however, there were a few issues. I was inside the car trimming as needed, while my girlfriend was holding the 69 body from swaying on the lift. Apparently the fumes from cutting overwhelmed her, and she took two steps then fell passing out to the floor. After getting her outside to fresh air, and making sure she was ok, the process was held off for the remainder of the night.
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[Pont463]

With the girlfriend all checked out OK, it was time to finish the fit. Cut trim, and cut some more.. I ended up cutting a straight line down the top of the rocker panel of the 69 from pinch weld to pinch weld, leaving the bottom edge of the rocker a bit longer to mate up with the bottom of the 2002 rocker. Finally getting the shell set down on the rockers, I then needed to adjust front to rear. I cut the 69 dash loose, and pulled the shell forward until the dash was in the correct location. The start tacking the rockers in place. The pinch weld on the 2002 was much taller than the 69, so I had to trim it down to mate up.
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Now I see that the firewalls don't match up at all, however the 2002 heater box ect does all fit perfectly below the 69 cowl vent. I trimmed out what was needed, and got the dash height set.

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[Pont463]

This is where we are today. I am currently welding in the pieces that are needed to fully seal the 2002 cockpit into the 69. As a added benefit and note, the rear of the cockpit where it goes up, was cut along the top of the cross bar in the 02 floor. the rear sub frame of the 69 actually mates up to the sub frame of the 02. Yes this could of been done a bit better as I ended up cutting about 1 inch to much off of the 69, but that will be an easy repair.
I am planning on adding more photos, as I continue this build, and try to keep everyone updated as the project continues.

[Charles]

WOW!!! You gotta have some big cohones to pull that off, you are cutting up 2 cars to build one and hope it all works out as they come together. Damn bro, keep the build going, you are gonna end up with one bad ass ride... Subscribed

[Mizzouri]

Lovin this! I've swapped in the LS1/T56 and dash with wiring from a 98 in to a 78 but never thought about doing what you are doing. :)

[Stovebolter]

Very intrigued. Interesting build.

David

[Mach Par]

Just awesome. Why take the time to replace the floors and everything else when you can just upgrade it? That's so creative.

[Doodler]

WOW!!! You gotta have some big cohones to pull that off, you are cutting up 2 cars to build one and hope it all works out as they come together. Damn bro, keep the build going, you are gonna end up with one bad ass ride... Subscribed

^^this!^^

[Pont463]

A little update.. I was sick yesterday and this morning, but I got our for a couple hours and was able to work on the firewall. I removed what was left of the uni-body frame rails on the front, and continued cleaning things up. I had to clearance an area for the brake booster, and seal weld that area up. I am going to continue on the firewall until its finished, before I start making the channels that cut through and into the floor for the front stub to bolt too. I will be setting the body a little lower on the front frame so the ride height is lower, but I will have the most available spring left in the front. This should make for a much better ride, and help the handling out exponentially. I wil try to get some more pictures tomorrow and keep the updates coming..

[Pont463]

So for the last month or so, I have been working lots of hours, but unfortunately not on the car. There has been steady progress, but I was hoping to be a bit further along. I continued working on the firewall a bit to seal it up, and clearance some of the areas for the power booster and clutch master cylinder. I also started building the body inserts to mount into the floor pan so the factory 69 front stub would fit correctly, and still be removable. I ordered most of the sheet metal from the firewall back, and it has also arrived, though due to being behind schedule, the only thing it does is help with motivation.

[Pont463]

Here are a fer pics of the front frame inserts as I call them that will be formed into the floor and body to allow the front frame to bolt in, and be removable.

[Pont463]

The way the front floor inserts fit under the floor, they will be able to utilize part of the 02 sub frame metal that is still there, as well as connect to the floor support structure. I will also be able to set the height of the body acording to the stub and adjust as needed.

[Pont463]

Before I started inserting the front end for completion, I wanted to get the rear end set up and decide for sure wjhat to do there. As you can probably tell from how this project has come along so far, is that I like to use what I have, and make it work as good or better than aftermarket parts. I knew right away that I wanted to put a nine inch in the car, and it just so happened that I have a few just laying around. I also wanted to utilize the LS1 brakes and wheels and tires if possible from the 02 donor car. So.. after some measuring, and checking.. As it turnes out, the 9 inch from a 79 F150 is within 3/8" as the same width as a 4th gen camaro. Perfect.

[Pont463]

Then it was time to to figure out the brakes. Apparently they make housing ends that would work for this and I would have to cut off and weld then on this housing. That didnt seem challengine enough I guess, cause about 4 beers into the plan, I decided to make what I have on hand work. So I removed the old bearings and retainer plated, and started measuring. I redrilled my backing plate to the large bearing ford pattern, and then quickly realized that it needed to be milled down to fit away from the axle flange further. so a few more beers, and a couple of measurements.. and to the milling machine we go.

[Pont463]

I turned down the axle flanges to fit the 02 rotors, and redrilled them for th 5 on 4 3/4 patern as well as started welding the brackets on the housing for the control arms. I build new lower control arm torque boxes for the body that allow a tubular sub frame connector to fit tight against the floor and rocker seam running to the front. I will take pics of them the next time I get a chance.

[Pont463]

Today was the day the car in a box showed up, and I tell you its great yet depressing at the same time. I'm happy its here, but wishing I could install it. Its that time in the build when I'm working on a bunch of stuff, but nothing it totally obvious that its getting done.. Its like i can work on stuff for a couple days and a buddy comes over and doesn't think I did anything.. lol anyway.. Its a ongoing process.

[Pont463]

I do have a question though. If anyone could give me some measurements it would help tremendously. Because I don't have the factory floor pan, firewall, and or trunk floor ect I have no solid factor measurements to locate my front sub-frame or rear axle. Is there anyone that could give me a measurement from the rear leaf spring shacke bolt on the frame itself to the centerling on the rear axle? I can center it from there, and then measure wheel base and square off of that. If anyone has any other ideas for measurements, please let me know.. the only factory spot thats solid i still have for now, is the rear shackle mount at the frame..

[boneheadzz]

I was checking out your build here and thinking, ' Here's a guy in the same boat as me... a wasted car needing everything thrown at it to make it whole...' And then I saw the gutting and was in shock! I love it!!! I don't have the guts to try it but man it looks like its working great so far for ya.
And then I saw you live in Demotte! I live in Porter but I run back and forth to Winfield all the time. I may hit you up some time to come see it in person if you don't mind. Keep up the good work man! You're inspiring me to get working on mine! Soon I hope.
Later
Mike

[Pont463]

Come on down any time. I would love to get together and maybe check out your builds too. PM me and I'll send you my phone number..

[Pont463]

Just a few pictures of the new torque inserts, the rear end backing plates milled out to fit the 9 inch, and the rear end brakes put together.

[Pont463]

Then It was time to get on some of the parts that came in the boxes.. I first removed the quater panel and outer wheel tub and cleaned and repaired any issues I found under it. I then primed and painted all exposed metal behind the quaters. There were just a few spots that needed anything as far as patch work, but there was a bit of surface rust on everything. 9511995120

[Pont463]

After installing the outer wheel tubs, I had to completely remove the rest of the edges of the quarter panel then install the new ones.

[Pont463]

To shorten the story a bit, I ended up replacing both quarter panels, both outer wheel tubs, the tail light panel, deck filler, and the deck lid. here are a few of the pics. All in all I would say it was a pretty good weekend and I'm happy with the progress made. The fit of the Panels was pretty good however there was some fitting needed and I still have to work on the gaps around the deck lid a bit. A few ratchet straps pulling different directions can make fitment a LOT easier. I also took some pics with the rear end mocked up under the car just to get an idea of what it would look like.. to say the least, I like it..

[Pont463]

more pics

[BirdsThaWord]

Looking good brother. I really dig it! Talk about modernizing an old ride... You are going way further than most. Wish I had your skills, tools, shop, etc. etc.

[alexandros]

Unique and interesting build. Alot of work to say the least. Would you say that the two chassis's are similar in nature? How much and where do they differ by? I am following this one. Never seen it done before like this.

[Death trap]

Love this build! I did a crap load of work to a 67 fastback mustang that was built in a similar way. Half the floor, dash and even the front rails and suspension were modded from a 2002 mustang cobra. Alot of work but ended up being a killer car. I'll be watching this build for sure! Keep up the good work!

[Pont463]

Actually I was very surprised how similar the measurements of the two cars are. The pinch welds at the front and rear of the door opening on both cars was within 1/8th of an inch. and the rear section where the 02 floor comes up behind the seat, there is the unibody frame stamp. this nearly lines up with the factory 69 rear frame rails perfectly. I was originally going to connect the two there, but I am changing the rear frame section to help with the suspension components. The largest difference in the two cars was the depth of the firewall. From the firewall itself to the front of the door opening was about 5 inches longer/deeper on the 69 than the 2002. I would of never guessed it, but all the 2002 overhang, is just that.. its all overhang. Iv'e been real busy lately trying to get the shop organized a bit better as its filled with misc. car parts. I'm hoping to get the rear frame finished and the set up here in the next week or so. I will post more pictures as soon as I get back on it.

[CajunAce]

You were right when you said you think out the box.. This is an awesome build. Can't wait to see more..

[BuffaloMotorama]

Nice. Keep up the good work!

[apocalight]

Wow. I'm just shocked/impressed at the scope of what you're doing. As someone said . . . big friggin balls on this one :).

[bonecrrusher]

Any reason you went with the 69 rear floor pan/suspension mounting points and not the 4th gen Camaro style?

I'm not sure if one is superior to the other - it just seems you already integrated that floor pan in the cab and would have you been able to use the the aft of the rear seat section?

[Pont463]

Any reason you went with the 69 rear floor pan/suspension mounting points and not the 4th gen Camaro style?

I'm not sure if one is superior to the other - it just seems you already integrated that floor pan in the cab and would have you been able to use the the aft of the rear seat section?

I looked at it at the beginning, but the measurements didn't line up. It sounds totally backwards, but the main starting point for this floor/firewall install was simply dash location. In order for all the 02 dash heaterbox exc. to fit properly, the dash had to be in a specific spot. once I figured that spot opu, everything other position was locked. the rear axle would of been about 8 inches to far rearward. I tossed around a lot of different ideas, but this one seemed to fit the bill the best. The only thing I wish would of been easier, is if I could of just ligned up the firewalls. That would of saved me lots of heartache. The problem with that though, is the dash wouldn't of fit under the windshield without some serious spacers and or internal modification. the way it is, it should all bolt back in just like a 02 interior.. Even the steering column will fit in with no modification at all..

[H20cooled]

Awesome build, look forward to see it finished.

[slammedwhitec5vert]

Really impressive work!! You have mad skillz!!

[Pont463]

Well I hope the people that were following this, didn't lose hope. work has been busy, and so has life. BUT... I have made some decent progress on the camaro. Let me say first that I ran into a bit of a problem. After checking and double checking, I found that the shell of the car sitting on the floorpan was just a bit off. The only way to make it right, was to put it on a frame jig, and square it all up. I don't own a frame jig, or should I say I didn't at the time. So as always, I made one. After welding up some old I-beam I had laying out back I made mounts for the new torque boxes in the rear, and the floor frame in the front. cutting a few welds and a little straightening, I set it all within 1/16 of an inch of perfect. Thats good enough for the girls I go out with.

[Pont463]

If you have read this entire post, then you'll remember the frame channels I made earlier. Now its time to set them and the front frame into place. 9847898477

[Pont463]

then I plated, and welded them all into the floor. I was able to drill through the floor and the real frame bolts for the front subframe came right into the floor cross member inside the car. 984829848398484

[Pont463]

with the wheelbase all set, and most of the boxing and welding completed on the front frame channels, it was then time to remove the front stub and work a bit of magic. I know that I wanted a rack andpinion and front steer in this car. I also am going to go with an adjustable coil over setup in the front. Looking through the parts I have, why not just install the 2002 k-member and lower a-arms.. So.. OK. I flipped the front stub over, and took a few measurements. Looks like it will all fit to me.. Here we go.. 9849598496

[Pont463]

I marked where the front axle center line should be on both front ends, and simply combined the two. I figured that if I was going to pu them together, there was no point in not using the stout sway bar that was connected to the 2002 front end already. So.. Chop Chop.. Weld Weld..98502985039850498505

[Pont463]

Tonight, I flipped the stub over, and removed what was left of the original cross member. Now I have to finish boxing the top together, and start the process of working in the front suspension itself. All is square and level, and is actually coming together better and esier than I had thought. I will keep the updates coming as I get more done. 98506

[bonecrrusher]

Thats really cool that you made channels to bolt the original subframe to the late model floor pan.

I also like how you took the late model front clip and grafted it into the original subframe.

Those channels you made under the late model floor pan - you going to continue those all the way back - make your own subframe connectors?

[Pont463]

Actually the way the channels fit into the floor pan, there is a area on the out side of thembetween it and the rocker, that is a straight shot to the outside of the torque boxes. It is the perfect place for sub fram connectors, and it will give me the most room for exhaust ect.

[Motown 454]

Awesome build! Very interesting. Subscribed!

[Pont463]

Well I have a little to update anyway.. I have been very busy with work, and coaching football 5 nights a week, but only one game left so I hope to be able to dive back into the car. I have done a few things on it when I get the time. The front sub-frame is grafted together nicely. I just need to add the suspension parts to it. I then decided that I would stop with the front, and just concentrate on the rear of the car and work forward from there. first thing was to finalize the rear framework, and finish weld that all in place. In doing this, I looked at my options for a fuel tank and clearance room. I decided that I could raise the trunk floor and fit the 2002 fuel tank which would make the connections of the harness plug and play. 103741103740

[Pont463]

Then I made up some tank straps and fitted the tank in place. The only thing about this setup, is that the 02 tank is side fill. The way it fits in the car though, I have enough room to run a tube back to the rear of the car for the fuel fill. Then I had to make a new floor pan for the trunk. Knowing the only thing that will ever really be in the rear of this car is some speakers, and a couple folding chairs, the trunk only needed to be about 10 inches deep at the rear for everything to fit. so a flat floor would work perfectly. Put in a little bead roll character to help stiffen the pieces up, and ....
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[Pont463]

Looking back at my posts, I forgot a problem that I ran into before. The nine inch rear end that I was setting up in the car was the perfect width, and was awesome. Until my 7 year old looked under the car and asked me how I was going to hook up the drive shaft being that the pinion was so far offset not inline with the tunnel. I missed it. I had put everything in the car for testing like 4 times. Even made the lower four link mounts and welded them to the housing. most of this was either looking at it from the rear, of without the third member installed. OOPS. It was time to fix this. I cut the housing and installed new tubes and made it center pinion. While I was at it, I did shorted it a bit for a touch more tire clearance. I don't remember the dimensions of the top of my head, but if anyone wants them, just send me a message and I will look them up for you. After redoing the housing, I installed the four link brackets and bars for a mock up. I went with the adjustable QA1 coil over shocks, and it appears everything is fitting nicely. 103744103745103746

[Motown 454]

Nice work. Always good to have a separate set of eyes there to notice something from a fresh point of view. No matter how young.

[Number1]

Any updates?