Need advice....

[andrewb70]

At the risk of jinxing myself, I will go ahead and as the questions...LOL

I just put an offer in on a house and it has a 30x24 garage. It has a single 16 foot door and then an area of the side that has an access door. There is electricity there and a few lights and not much else. This being WI, I know that I will need to insulate the space if I want to use it anytime besides the 8 weeks they call summer.

I also have the following in my head:

1. Wash and maybe epoxy the floor.
2. Run a couple of 220v outlets for welder, air compressor.
3. Heat? Gas? Electric?
4. More lights

Any an all suggestions are welcome!

Andrew

[1truckguy78]

Were in WI?
What about a wood burner? Im thinking about one and a gas heater to just stay above freezing.
That epoxy floor stuff gets super slippery when wet like from slush under cars.

[andrewb70]

Were in WI?
What about a wood burner? Im thinking about one and a gas heater to just stay above freezing.
That epoxy floor stuff gets super slippery when wet like from slush under cars.

I will be moving to Oshkosh.

I don't know about a wood burner. Seems a little like a log cabin...LOL

I am not entirely sold on the floor coatings. Coated floors sure look nice, but I am concerned about spills and whatnot. This isn't going to be a garage for parking, but more of a down and dirty shop where I can relax and do various projects.

Andrew

[raustinss]

Then just do a simple painted floor...give it a good scrub first of course. Now for insulation... I just did a 24x24 Roxul insulation for the walls and blown in cellulose in the ceiling. Don't forget sofit vents when doing the ceiling. I used 8mil poly as vapour barrier, tuck tape all seams and around boxes, 1/2" plywood on walls and drywall on the ceiling. Got a great deal 50$ for a 9x7 garage door and a friend spray foamed it for me for a bottle of the gross jack daniels stuff...lol.
If you got a source of free wood....skids etc...then get a wood stove now it will he more for insurance, gas is probably the cheapest route in the long run and safest
Good luck and keep us updated..with pictures lol

[andrewb70]

Thanks for the advice guys...keep it coming.

Andrew

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Andrew I'm doing a mini version of this right now. Four weekends and it looks like I've gotten nowhere, lol. Props to Mike Wright (hotrod69 I think?) for his help.

I'm skipping the floor mods. I don't weld (yet) but don't want to have it looking like crap after all the effort. IMO it's a garage and I'll clean the floor as I go. One other suggestion I'd make is to lay out as best you can in order to figure out oulet requirements.

Another thing I decided on was cheap cabinets, but nice industrial workbench tool storage. I'm horsetrading on Craigslist to get that right. Takes patience.

Shelves where possible to get everything off the floor that doesn't live in cabinets. Storage tubs clean this up too.

Are you going to run air drops?

[Mkelcy]

On lighting, one end of my pole barn is set up as a 30' x 17.5' shop with 11.5' ceilings. When I bought the place, it had six incandescent light fixtures on the ceiling which were pretty inadequate. I thought I'd have to redo the lighting with long tube fluorescent fixtures. Until then, though, I wanted to improve the lighting.

I recently discovered some 4,000 lumen CFLs at Home Depot that screw into my existing fixtures, and the six of them are equivalent to having about 16, 100 watt bulbs in the shop. They are close to instant on, but not at full brightness - once they get going though it's very bright in there.

[andrewb70]

Andrew I'm doing a mini version of this right now. Four weekends and it looks like I've gotten nowhere, lol. Props to Mike Wright (hotrod69 I think?) for his help.

I'm skipping the floor mods. I don't weld (yet) but don't want to have it looking like crap after all the effort. IMO it's a garage and I'll clean the floor as I go. One other suggestion I'd make is to lay out as best you can in order to figure out oulet requirements.

Another thing I decided on was cheap cabinets, but nice industrial workbench tool storage. I'm horsetrading on Craigslist to get that right. Takes patience.

Shelves where possible to get everything off the floor that doesn't live in cabinets. Storage tubs clean this up too.

Are you going to run air drops?

I might just pressure was the floor and leave it alone. I've never been super crazy about epoxy floors because I am concerned about durability. I mean, can they really stand up to a rolling floor jack or jack stands digging in? Brake fluid also seems to remove the coating.

I am not going to get a bunch of cabinets, maybe just a few here and there. I think some heavy duty industrial shelves would be more appropriate and functional. A big workbench is a must. I was thinking about building my own and then having a local sheet metal company top it in stainless of galvanized steel.

I think having some air outlets would be handy, but I use mostly hand tool and will probably get a few battery powered impacts for quick disassembly work.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

On lighting, one end of my pole barn is set up as a 30' x 17.5' shop with 11.5' ceilings. When I bought the place, it had six incandescent light fixtures on the ceiling which were pretty inadequate. I thought I'd have to redo the lighting with long tube fluorescent fixtures. Until then, though, I wanted to improve the lighting.

I recently discovered some 4,000 lumen CFLs at Home Depot that screw into my existing fixtures, and the six of them are equivalent to having about 16, 100 watt bulbs in the shop. They are close to instant on, but not at full brightness - once they get going though it's very bright in there.

Good tip! There are 2 8" lights already in the shop but I was thinking about adding 2 or 3 more. You can never have too much light!

Andrew

[raustinss]

There are companies that make led conversion bulbs....I'm getting some for my 4x4' will end up costing me about 200$ but really bright no flicker and not affected by colder temps

[andrewb70]

How about something like this? How do you know how many you need?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-2-ft-x-4-ft-White-LED-Fluorescent-Troffer-2GTL4/203820958?N=5yc1vZc7bu#customer_reviews

Andrew

[dontlifttoshift]

Good tip! There are 2 8" lights already in the shop but I was thinking about adding 2 or 3 more. You can never have too much light!

Andrew

I have 16 8 foot fixtures in my 24x40.....

[astroracer]

Hey Andrew, head over to www.garagejournal.com (http://www.garagejournal.com) Do some searches.
Lots of info on everything you are asking about. I can give you some pointers also. Being in Michigan I deal with cold 8 months out of the year.
Mark

[raustinss]

Andrew yeah sorta like that the ones I got look exactly like a fluorescent tube but are led to wire them all I had to do was remove the ballasts as away I go. I didn't know how many I needed my garage just happened to have 4 fixtures with 2 -4' each. Two other things I built a "closet " for the compressor 2x6 walls around it lined with 2 layers of Roxul insulation two vents one on the bottom and one going into the attic. They allow for fresh air and help keep it from overheating. Most importantly...quiet. The second thing is don't be afraid to weld up some bars for any windows and lag them into the structure of the garage, on man doors replace the hinge to door jam screws with 3" screws and on the handle side I put a piece of 3/16 " steel from the floor to top of the door and also lagged that into structure so there is no way in hell anyone can kick the door in

[shmoov69]

Get a wood burning stove/heater, don't have to be a big one for that size, but you'll fall in love with it after you use it a bit. It's a little dirty, takes up a little space and you gotta cut or buy wood. But the heat is incomparable on a cold day when you or to warm up your butt or hands! LoL! I wouldn't mess with the floor unless its a POS, but I would recommend running more power outlets everywhere!!

[BonzoHansen]

I love my epoxy floor. Keeps the dust down, makes spills easier to cleanup and brightens the place up, even when I'm under the car. There are very few chips in my floor. But it's not like untreated concrete is impervious to damage. Brake fluid has never been a problem but I don't let it sit for days either. A little grit in the epoxy helps with the slippery issue. Concrete paint will come off.

I'm not much for the wood burning. I've always wanted an infrared overhead heater. I saw some at sema that we're nice

[astroracer]

I have some insight on "spot heating". I have a couple of lathes, a drill press, and misc. other metal working tools in my shop. I used to use a kerosene heater to warm it while I was out there working in the winter. One of the issues with "spot heating", especially in the fall and early spring, is condensation. Warming things up for short periods of time was causing so much surface rust on my expensive tools I spent more time cleaning them then I did using them. If you plan to have any kind of machine tools or expensive equipment in the shop I highly recommend forced air heat, either NG or propane.
The other issue is cold tools. I find it much nicer to go out to a shop that is already warm. I keep my thermostat set at 51 or 52 degrees. That is warm enough to go out and putter for a few hours after work at night and it doesn't break the bank for heating costs. If I know I am going to be out there all day I set it up to about 60. That's plenty warm for doing most things on a cold winter day.
Full time heat has many advantages over spot heating. No condensation, the tools are warm, the room is warm, and it is MUCH easier to go out there to work when everything is warm.
Mark

[andrewb70]

Thank you all for your input. I realize that everyone has their preferences and that is what I want to hear. The house has NG for it's forced air heating system, so I am assuming that running a line 20-30" to the garage shouldn't be a big deal. I think at this point I would prefer a NG forced air system. Like Mark noted, I can keep the garage at a reasonable steady temperature and then maybe bump it up slightly when I am actually out there.

Mark, any advice on some tools? I've never really had any sort of "serious" tools, not even a drill press. I think a nice drill press and a welder is on the wish list, but please let me know what other things you have found indispensable.

Andrew

[raustinss]

I agree with you mark....that's why I went way overboard on insulating the attic space in my garage lol its like. A r50-55 they had a deal on at home depot buy so many bags of insulation and the machine rental was free, couldn't resist figured insulation was cheaper then heat so I insulated the s**t out of it

[mell69]

I agree with what Mark said above about forced air heat. I have a 25x31 garage with a natural gas forced air unit regulated by a thermostat. As Mark said, the main advantages I've found are the temperture adjustability and heating consistancy in the space and especially the equipment. It can get too cold for too long around here and with the winter we just went through I'm pretty certain I wouldn't have lasted long out there on some days with just a spot heater.

[BonzoHansen]

When our shop switched from f/a heaters to IR I thought it was much nicer. no fans blowing dust around. gets the slab warmed up a bit better, which makes the whole place feel warmer. If I were in the market I'd look there first. I don't have experience with any current home type units, but along the lines of this one (http://shop.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=710435&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=WX2*0193363000000&pm2d=CSE-SPG-15-PLA&gclid=CJ3urKOhuL0CFWXl7AodUh0AMQ). Just trying to highlight the style, i just picked it out of the google search.

[vintageracer]

Just stay in Elvisland where it's NOT WINTER 10 months a year!

Garage heating/insulating problem solved!

[andrewb70]

Just stay in Elvisland where it's NOT WINTER 10 months a year!

Garage heating/insulating problem solved!

That would have been ideal, but life didn't turn out that way. You know what they say "Man plans, God laughs..." LOL

I am rolling with the punches...

Andrew

[silvermonte]

I used the epoxy coating from Menards in my garage, same stuff you can get at Lowes. I cleaned the crap out of the floor with muratic acid, and then scrubbed and scrubbed with clean water. I then did two coats of clear on top of the paint with the silicone sand in it. Holds up really well, except to welding and dragging heavy things across it that would gouge it. Ive yet to find any chemical or car fluid that has stained it or hurt the floor in any way. I went with a white floor to make the garage brighter and I love how easy it is to clean, I put some simple green in about 2 gallons of water and wipe the place up and it will be clean enough you can walk on it with your bare feet and they will stay clean.

I have a shop that is 28x36 and it only has a gravel floor at the moment. What Im going to do in there when I get cement, is do half the floor in epoxy and then leave the rest without epoxy, maybe just some normal paint that way when it starts looking like crap I can just repaint. Ill use that area for the heavy fab work and when thats done ill just move my cars to the epoxy area for final assembly. I just like that I can get down on the floor and slide around and then get back up and know I will still be perfectly clean. If your car has a leak or you spill something on the floor while working on it a little carb cleaner and a rag and it wipes right up.

[g-machine]

Moisture is a big deal when coating the garage floor. Depending on the water table where you are moving, you might want to leave the concrete bare. I also keep a dehumidifier running in my heated garage year round. I have a hanging shop heater that works great.

George

[JAWSS]

Gorgeous weather there in August!! After that it's hoodie,hat and coat weather. I worked for "truck" back in 2010 and saw plenty of cool rides up there. If there was a way to heat the floor, I would make that a priority. Cold concrete drains the crap out of you. Everything else mentioned, I agree with. Insulation and insulating that door should work well with the heater. Good luck on your future endeavors!!

J

[Damn True]

Radiant heat under the slab would be ideal, but I doubt you can cut it and install it deep enough in an existing slab. They can do it for slab foundation houses, but those don't have 3500lb Pontiacs on them. Outside of that, radiant I think would be your best bet. They are worlds better than forced air in a big workspace.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

My last shop had a radiant tube heater, greatest thing since sliced bread, BUT>>>>> I am only an ocassional garage user. I wouldn't leave the heat on all the time so it takes a while to heat up for shop use. My new shop [starting on it in the next couple weeks, foundation is already in! 24x41] will get forced air. I think it is much better if you are not going to heat all the time. Something to think about.

[carguykeith]

That's almost the exact size of the shop I built back in Alaska, as long as you insulate it well and minimize infiltration you really dont need much of a heater. I had inslab heat but had a backup normal old 30k btu garage heater that keept the shop 50 degrees even with a week of -20 temps before I had the inslab fired off.

You can never have enough light, like I said my shop was the same size and I had a total of (48) 4' T8 bulbs. Sounds excesive but I could work underneath my car without drop light 90% of the time and everythign is easier when you have good lighting. Ever see a dark operating room?

Yes electrical outlets everywhere (and a couple of drop cords on the ceiling), oh and at least (2) 220v outlets so when you get a plasma cutter you can run it and the air compressor at the same time. Side note, there are like 15 different 220v plugs just wire everything with the 50A plug regardless so you don't have to worry about swapping plugs/ outlets later.

Don't do anything to the floor. Welding/ grinding, dumping every possible fluid/ heavy tool and part on it will destroy ANY coating.

Industrial shelving and big rubbermade totes work great, just label each tote and you have quick easy access to everything and its covered so everything inside the totes isn't covered in dirt and dust. You will be amazed at just how much dust you generate once the welder and grinder get fired off...

Oh yeah and somebody already said it but Garagejournal is an amazing resourse, every question you can think of has already been asked and there will be great examples to follow.