Custom vehicle titles

[srh3trinity]

I have been going through the process of trying to get a title for my car. Alabama doesn't title anything older than a 1975 model year. I can register it/tag it without a problem. Down the road, if I want to sell it, I realize our market is pretty small and I would have to advertise widely for a pro-touring build. I don't know the rules for other states, but certainly, many states require a title. I was looking into a custom vehicle title since Alabama won't title the car as it is older than a '75. It will have an aftermarket subframe, aftermarket engine, trans, rear end, etc which meets the criteria. Anybody else go this path? Upsides/downsides?

[Ron Sutton]

Subscribed :)

[andrewb70]

Stephen,

Every state I have ever lived in required a title.

Where did you car come from? Why was there no title to begin with?

Andrew

[jy211]

did you ever have a title for the car to begin with when you bought the car?

[srh3trinity]

Came out of Georgia, they don't title cars back past 1986 currently. I picked it up for next to nothing, of course the guy said he would mail the title, never did. I have tried to get back in touch with him and can't. I called GA DMV and they said that since the chain of ownership has been broken, they can't give me a title, the previous owner would have to request and transfer. They wouldn't give me any updated contact info on him. I thought about cutting my losses and selling it locally, but since I want a 74, I will have the same problem getting a title on any car I find locally. I found one the other day and the guy has all of the paperwork, but no title. I have been back and forth with the Alabama DMV people and they tell me they can get it registered, but they won't title it. I just got off the phone with them again and they said even if I get it registered as a custom vehicle, they don't title anything past 1975. If I sell it out of state, they will send a certified letter stating they don't title anything past a certain year. I have even spoken to a few title companies that guarantee titles and they can't offer much help. I have been sitting on the car for a few years and accumulating parts, and I wanted to sort this out before I send it to paint and body. I know we all say we build 'em to keep, but I can't help but think one of these days I will want to build something different and move this one down the road to somebody new.

[andrewb70]

Sounds like if future sale is a concern, you might want to sell this shell locally and find another one with a title.

Andrew

[srh3trinity]

Sounds like if future sale is a concern, you might want to sell this shell locally and find another one with a title.

Andrew

I plan to look around. Again, I would have to find a state that titles these things in the first place since here locally, a 74 wouldn't have a title to start with. I don't have high hopes of being able to sale a 1974 Firebird down the road anyway, especially not with an aftermarket sub, stroked LS, PT build as there are only a SELECT few people that like the 74-76 in the first place. Limiting it to states without titles would make it even more problematic.
While I was waiting to hear back from the DMV I was just curious if anybody had had any success with a Custom Vehicle Title. It is similar to a kit car title. You get a secondary VIN assigned. Now I know that it won't help me anyway.

[SSLance]

To my knowledge...every car manufactured and sold in the US came with either a title or a MSO...so your pre-74 cars all USED to have a title with them. Sometimes the paperwork is lost on old dilapidated cars, true...but there are PLENTY of old cars out there that do have proper titles with them.

Now...there are ways to get titles for older vehicles where the original titles have been lost...but they aren't free and there is a little bit of risk involved in the process. It can be done though.

[srh3trinity]

To my knowledge...every car manufactured and sold in the US came with either a title or a MSO...so your pre-74 cars all USED to have a title with them. Sometimes the paperwork is lost on old dilapidated cars, true...but there are PLENTY of old cars out there that do have proper titles with them.

Now...there are ways to get titles for older vehicles where the original titles have been lost...but they aren't free and there is a little bit of risk involved in the process. It can be done though.

I have been back and forth with several different county DMV's to see if I was told the same thing consistently and they continue to tell me they won't title anything pre-1975. I called a local title service that will process the paperwork to get a title and the lady there told me that AL wouldn't title it. I told her why it mattered and she laughed and said, "just sale it locally when you get ready to sale." I believe it was titled in Georgia, but I haven't made any progress with the previous owner. I haven't talked with any of the national title agencies. I have heard mixed reviews on them. I may put it on hold (again) and start looking for a titled car.

[MidnightSpecial]

I had the same issue with a 1981 xs650 I bought out of a barn in Georgia. They didnt require a title for it in georgia but Mississippi required one. Look into bonded titles.

I had to get a written letter from Georgia's office stating the title policy, they had to run a search of the vin to make sure there are no liens and its not hot. It was a bitch to say the least

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

Now from what I thought about Alabama, don't all older vehicles not have titles at all?

My knowledge in this matter goes as far as a company called Broadway Title (http://www.broadwaytitle.com/) is concerned. I've had vehicles here in AZ that were abandoned for years upon years with no title or ownership history, and Broadway title has been able to get through these hoops. How it works is that you give them the vehicle information and pay their fee, then they provide you with what I believe was a bill of sale through Alabama (It's been about 10 years since I last did one). But I've done a couple vehicles, and I take the bill of sale to the DMV and then they provide me with an Arizona title, no issues. So I guess in an indirect way of answering your question, there should not be an issue with just having a bill of sale for a car (at least with my experiences here in Arizona).

[srh3trinity]

Now from what I thought about Alabama, don't all older vehicles not have titles at all?

My knowledge in this matter goes as far as a company called Broadway Title (http://www.broadwaytitle.com/) is concerned. I've had vehicles here in AZ that were abandoned for years upon years with no title or ownership history, and Broadway title has been able to get through these hoops. How it works is that you give them the vehicle information and pay their fee, then they provide you with what I believe was a bill of sale through Alabama (It's been about 10 years since I last did one). But I've done a couple vehicles, and I take the bill of sale to the DMV and then they provide me with an Arizona title, no issues. So I guess in an indirect way of answering your question, there should not be an issue with just having a bill of sale for a car (at least with my experiences here in Arizona).
I called one of these national title services today. She told me that when I sale it, Alabama would provide a certified letter stating they dont title older cars. She said they comes up all the time and she hasn't seen any problems. She said she could do a bonded title from Georgia, but it would be expensive and overkill given Alabama's policy since they won't even title it due to it's age with a title from GA. ALL dmv confirmed that they regularly provide certified letters about their title policy.

[dobie6982]

I have never had a title for my 1968. Keep the bill of sell from GA and have it registered. It will only be an issue if you sell it, and people in Alabama sell old cars everyday. If you ever need advice, there is a classic car dealership in Arab, AL that should be able to help.

[CornHusker4Life]

I currently have an issue with the title to my 55 Bel air. I have the title BUT in 1955 Texas put the motor number instead of the vin number on the title. The original motor is long gone and so is the owner. It is a 1968 title (owner is dead, family sold the car). My DMV will NOT give me a Nebraska title because the vin on the title does not match the existing motor or the vin. Any suggestions???

[Mudmony]

My experience in California, provide bill of sale, vin # verification,buy plates and registration sticker corresponding with year of manufacturer, take to registration service,not DMV, if all clear,.receive title

[srh3trinity]

I currently have an issue with the title to my 55 Bel air. I have the title BUT in 1955 Texas put the motor number instead of the vin number on the title. The original motor is long gone and so is the owner. It is a 1968 title (owner is dead, family sold the car). My DMV will NOT give me a Nebraska title because the vin on the title does not match the existing motor or the vin. Any suggestions???
You can call one of the national title companies. Broadway title had more positive review than any other I saw. I think they charge upwards of 900 for their services. If you have put any money into your build, it might be worth it.

[DButler]

Alabama does not require title. I have never had a tie with my 67 camaro. There have to be ways to make this work because I knew a guy personally who sold classic cars for a living. He passed away few years ago but he sold cars all over the country. I never plan to sell my car but if I did who word I contact to make sure vin is good? I have had it registered for 9-10 years word it have came up when I registered it if there was a lien or something? Just curious.

[srh3trinity]

If I had to guess, liens were not near as common with these cars as they are now. You never know though. I am glad I am not the only one who has been down this path. Looks like I will get it registered and move forward.

[BMR Sales]

To my knowledge...every car manufactured and sold in the US came with either a title or a MSO...so your pre-74 cars all USED to have a title with them. Sometimes the paperwork is lost on old dilapidated cars, true...but there are PLENTY of old cars out there that do have proper titles with them.

Now...there are ways to get titles for older vehicles where the original titles have been lost...but they aren't free and there is a little bit of risk involved in the process. It can be done though.

Not in Alabama or Georgia! That's why a lot of people "Wash" Cars through AL. One of my Ex-Wife's other Ex-Husbands was in the FBI and he Busted one of the Largest Stolen Car Rings that was based in Alabama because they washed all the Cars through there on Bill of Sales!

[jy211]

what about just requesting a duplicate title? I know down here, if you know someone in a tag agency, they can request a duplicate title in the former owner's name, but you have it sent to your address.....

[srh3trinity]

Not in Alabama or Georgia! That's why a lot of people "Wash" Cars through AL. One of my Ex-Wife's other Ex-Husbands was in the FBI and he Busted one of the Largest Stolen Car Rings that was based in Alabama because they washed all the Cars through there on Bill of Sales!
I read about that in all of my web searching about this topic.

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

I figured there would be a big opportunity for fraud. Just not having a title in my eyes is just unfathomable for me, given the work we put into these cars I like a legal form saying it's mine. But that's the way it is I guess. It does make it easier when you find an abandoned car though.

[Jetfixr320]

Bought a 64 Fairlane while living in GA, I had a Bill of sale only, as stated above GA has the older then 15 years no title is needed.
I moved to Indiana several years later and before the car was road worthy. Prior to having the car painted and really being hosed, I contacted one of the Company's that claimed to help title cars, They said we can't help you. No reason given.

So, I went to a local IN DMV and at first they blew me some crap as a explained the GA 15 Yr deal. The DMV lady called BS on that. So, she whipped out her handy dandy DMV book a foot thick. Looks up GA state DMV rules and discovered that I was telling her the truth. She then was willing to help, and provided me a form to have the VIN ran by the local police and once it came back clean. I took that form and and my Bill of Sale back to the DMV to apply for a IN title and plates. The car has now been titled and plated in IN for 10 years.

If your VIN is clean, I don't think you will have any problems. But, your potential out of state buyers should talk to a local DMV rep face to face instead of over the phone. Try to have a copy of Alabama title rules and a copy of your VIN report that you could supply to them.

Just my .02

[Kenova]

I'm happy we don't have to put up with that nonsense up here.
Here we have an ownership slip issued with each car. When you buy a car you present the ownership with the previous owners signature on it along with a bill of sale and a new one is issued in your name.
Without the ownership slip you simply don't own the car, bill of sale be damned. Without the ownership slip you can't get insurance, registration, or plates....and it's small enough to fit in your wallet.

Ken

[badazz81z28]

I actually bought my 78Z out of Georgia back in 2008. No title as mentioned above. When I bought the car, the seller provided proof of registration, a bill of sale, and a VIN verification (prove not stolen). I ultimatly registered it in Alaska and Alaska provided me a clean title. Selling a car without a title shouldnt be a problem as long as its already registered in a state that doesnt require a title.

[barraza]

To my knowledge...every car manufactured and sold in the US came with either a title or a MSO...so your pre-74 cars all USED to have a title with them. Sometimes the paperwork is lost on old dilapidated cars, true...but there are PLENTY of old cars out there that do have proper titles with them.

Now...there are ways to get titles for older vehicles where the original titles have been lost...but they aren't free and there is a little bit of risk involved in the process. It can be done though.


Lots of somewhat confusing information in this thread, but the facts are really pretty simple.

All states have their own DMV's, and as such, they all have different rules. Nowadays titles are pretty similar, but a long time ago, almost none were. Some states, like Alabama, didn't have centralized registration for the state, it was all done by county. This changed in 1975. Now it is true that a pre75 car will not have an Alabama State Issued title, but it most certainly will have the tag receipt issued by the county it was registered in. The tag receipt has the same info as a normal title, ie vin, registered owner, etc. The tag receipt and a Bill of Sale can be used to register an Alabama origin car in any other state. Any DMV office with an ounce of sense will have seen old cars from states that didn't issue STATE titles.

It is also true that Alabama and some other states that didn't have state issued titles until the 70's were known for washing stolen cars. Strictly speaking, this wasn't because a tag receipt wasn't legitimate, it was because it was much easier for a criminal to find a willing co-conspirator in a small county DMV office than the state DMV office.

The bottom line is that there is no such thing as a TITLE for a pre75 car in Alabama. You should however have a legitimate county issued tag receipt for the car. You will not have any problem selling it, as the state it goes to will issue their own title.

[groho]

Jetfixer nailed it. This is how stolen classics and hotrods are washed through the DMV system, and allowed to be resold without risk. The title can be reissued but it does take footwork by police to search the VIN to insure it's not stolen. Additionally, a bill of sale, change of ownership, and updated registration should suffice for DMVs that don't use titles on older cars. You can also report the title lost in some cases to have another issued. Yes, its a major pain, the biggest pain being if you're the new owner who bought a previously stolen vehicle. As for kit cars, in CA you must pass inspection by DMV and police to insure the vehicle is road worthy and all safety items are on the vehicle and functional; side markers, back up lights, seat belts, turn signals, etc.

I had to sell an abandon motorcycle once, to get a replacement title I had to report the vehicle abandoned unknown owner, post an article in the newspaper, and post a public notice, wait 30 days, follow up to DMV once the time had passed, transition the ownership to me, as the new owner request a new title to replace the lost, then sell the cycle. Total time took roughly 4 mos. Don't forget you're dealing with public service workers, you're expectations can't be too high. . .

[boneheadzz]

Bought a 64 Fairlane while living in GA, I had a Bill of sale only, as stated above GA has the older then 15 years no title is needed.
I moved to Indiana several years later and before the car was road worthy. Prior to having the car painted and really being hosed, I contacted one of the Company's that claimed to help title cars, They said we can't help you. No reason given.

So, I went to a local IN DMV and at first they blew me some crap as a explained the GA 15 Yr deal. The DMV lady called BS on that. So, she whipped out her handy dandy DMV book a foot thick. Looks up GA state DMV rules and discovered that I was telling her the truth. She then was willing to help, and provided me a form to have the VIN ran by the local police and once it came back clean. I took that form and and my Bill of Sale back to the DMV to apply for a IN title and plates. The car has now been titled and plated in IN for 10 years.

If your VIN is clean, I don't think you will have any problems. But, your potential out of state buyers should talk to a local DMV rep face to face instead of over the phone. Try to have a copy of Alabama title rules and a copy of your VIN report that you could supply to them.

Just my .02

I had to do this as well with my 79 Trans Am that had no title. I bought it off of a friend who got it from a guy who travels all over and collects second gens. The DMV young lady had the same foot thick book lol. I also found they had a 'loophole' for cars worth less than $6000 that you could title it with a VIN check here in Indiana. I took this route and finally got a title for it. I did VIN searches in several southern states to try and get info on the previous owner but it was just about worthless. I found title info in Georgia (of all places), paid for title information and got the run around by the Georgia DMV people. I did get a sellers name from the bill of sale, searched high and low in the yellow pages since it was an uncommon name but no dice. My buddy and I considered looking into a VIN plate swap but found it too shady. Some people seem to have no problem doing this, but not me. Its just plain illegal. But sometimes that doesn't stop people.

I must give my Indiana DMV young lady some serious praise because she stuck with me and helped me through the process. I was quite frustrated. But we finally got approval after the police VIN check, photos of the car and the bill of sale. They issued me a normal (non-rebuilt) title after almost a year of on-again, off-again searching and finally hunkering down and forcing myself to finish this process. Rebuilt titles here make the car worth less overall at least in my eyes.
So, from now on, I will never buy a car without a title or a sketchy history. Too much hassle.
Mike

[srh3trinity]

I am going to register the car and move forward with the build.

[vintageracer]

It is well known that Alabama does not provide a title for cars 1975 and older. This is also stated in the title rules books that EVERY county clerk in the nation has in their office IF they are not too damn lazy to go and look. New York does not issue titles for 1973 and older vehicles unless they have changed. Nothing new here as there are several other states that do not issue titles for old cars.

Go and register the car in Alabama. You will get a current license receipt for your car and a license tag. That's all you need in Alabama. The car will transfer when you sell it with a Bill of Sale and that CURRENT license receipt. Keep the tag current by continuing to renew the tag as long as you own the car. You do not need to use a title company at all. The downside is that you will not be able to place the car in any collector car auction as most all require a title in the owner's name. Not a deal breaker.

Tennessee has made it VERY easy to title an OLD CAR (1981 and older) without a title by using the "Certificate of Ownership" form and a Bill of Sale. Just did so with the Datsun 510 I bought 2 weeks ago in Georgia. No title because the car was older than 1986 AND the car did not have a current License Receipt since the car did not run. Used the Bill of Sale and Certificate of Ownership form. The Tennessee title in my name showed up today.

For those interested in the reading about Tennessee process for Certificate of Ownership go to the Tennessee Department of Revenue Website. Click on the Motor Vehicle Registration Tab, click on Forms and look for the Certificate of Ownership tab.

Go to the State of Alabama Motor Vehicle Registration website. The information concerning their title policies are prominently displayed.

From the Alabama website:

Every motor vehicle not more than 35 model years old which is domiciled in Alabama and is required to be registered in Alabama is required to have an Alabama certificate of title. Travel trailers and folding and collapsible camping trailers not more than 20 model years old also are required to have an Alabama certificate of title. Manufactured homes not more than 20 model years old are also required to be titled.
DEFINITIONS: The term motor vehicle shall include every automobile, motorcycle, mobile trailer, semitrailer, truck, truck tractor, trailer and other device that is self-propelled or drawn, in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a public highway except such as is moved by animal power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. Every trailer coach and travel trailer manufactured upon a chassis or undercarriage as an integral part thereof drawn by a self-propelled vehicle.
EXCLUSIONS: No Alabama certificate of title shall be obtained for:
(a) A motor vehicle more than 35 model years old or trailer more than 20 model years old.

[shep]

I bought my 64 Impala in Maine they have the same deal no title before 86. Since I had it licensed all I needed was the pink slip when I brought it back to Missouri which titles everything. Super easy no hassle. After a couple weeks I got my missouri title in the mail.