Advice from the Engineers and hiring people on here.

[SShep71]

So I need some advice. I am in the process of going back to school. I intend on going for Mechanical Engineering, but I was told that I should consider a Mechanical Engineering Technology degree as well. I was told by the chair of the math department at the school I will be going to for my Jr level classes at, that a lot of military personnel are doing the MET degree path instead. I was told that someone with my experience and background and a MET degree will have no problems. I am left with many questions, and doubts. I would love to work in the automotive industry. I really would like to get some feedback from people in the industry that I would love to be part of. I wanted to know what the primary differences are, the perceptions between the two degrees, and the limits of having the MET degree instead of the ME degree job and salary wise. I would also have a AS in Motorsports Technology, professional diplomas in welding, wet welding and commercial diving, and all of my military experience. This is really bothering me and I would like to have a good idea as to what direction to go. I have done some searching and I hear lots of back and forth about it, but I really do hold the people on here to a higher degree of maturity and professionalism. Any input you can give me is a plus.

-Shep

[TonyHuntimer]

Shep,

A couple of the most important questions I'll ask, so more people can tailor their answers:

Where do you want to live?

What is your dream job?

What's your end goal? Would you enjoy doing that dream job every day for the rest of your life?

Realistically, how much money do you want to make?

Are you married? Do you have kids?

Tony Huntimer
TestCarDatabase

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

I've had that fight within my head many times over the years. I started going to ASU for ME, but some of the classes and math got pretty overwhelming and I contemplated MET. I decided to keep going for my ME, and am very glad I did, although it took me a several years to get it, mainly since I was working as well.

The only question I have is how good are you with math? Calculus is the foundation of these engineering classes, so if you can't get through Calc I-III, life will be miserable for you. If you think you can do it, I would take the core Calculus classes and see if you can do it. If you can, you'll definitely be glad you went for the Mechanical Engineering degree. The MET degree is good for people who are more hands on as it focuses less on math, and more of the manufacturing and machining aspect from what I've seen. A more interesting degree to obtain, but not as much of the core knowledge that "Engineering" is based off of.

As far as pay and job positions, that's going to be very dependent on who you work for. Where I work my company had no problems hiring a MET major, along with myself being an ME. But, the MET does not receive the pay of a full engineer. I also don't know how that can play into going into being a senior level engineer, as I don't know of any. I'm 3 years out of school, with 3 years prior being an intern. Now I'm a Senior Level engineer, so it has definitely paid off for me.

[Barrrf]

Largely depends on where you want to live. In my location, opportunities are limited, so a tech degree suffices. However, in a location where there are LOTS of opportunities why limit your opportunities?

Of course if you want to know how to "design the wrench - its structural rigidity, flexural modulus, and how it reacts in 105 degree heat with a 3' breaker on the end of it" go with ME. On the other hand if you want "To trust the wrench designers with a good understanding of how it was designed" then stick with MET.

MET degrees will allow you opportunities (strictly speaking automotive) to work on assembly modeling, part design, and ergonomics.
ME degrees with allow you opportunities in designing engines, doing structural analysis, FEA, FMEA, ect ect.

One is way more analytical than the other. However, an ME degree will allow you access to all MET related stuff. An MET degree may or may not allow you the same opportunities as an ME degree.

Clear as mud?
Experience: I have an ME degree.

Looking back I wish I would've went the business route. I did not LOVE engineering.

[ugotdubbz]

I have a MET degree and have worked in the commercial refrigeration display case field for over 18 years. As stated before, the MET positions are usually more hands on. If you can swing the classes go for the ME degree because my upper management usually bring in ME’s first for interviews. I have been on a lot of panel interviews and it is amazing how many of the ME’s (not all) don’t have a clue on how to use simple tools. They can work magic on the computer designing things but often fall short when it is time to build prototypes and show the assembly workers how to put things together. We build a lot of prototypes and go to the assembly line to help with issues all the time and it is nice to have an engineer that is as comfortable building something as they are behind the computer. I personally think a MET would be perfect for most of the design work that we do, but upper management rarely bring them in for interviews. So for you to have a ME degree and know how to use tools would be a plus for my line of work. The ME degree gets you in the door and your other skills will move you up the ladder. I do regret not getting my master’s degree in business (MBA) right out of college. That extra piece of paper as we call it can get you many promotions down the road. I am currently thinking like Barrrf. I am no longer in love with engineering, at least in my field. The stress is unbelievable at times. Everything is about profit but at the same time keeping quality up.

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

That's another good point too. Part of what got me hired immediately as an intern nearly 6 years ago was my hands on experience. Being that I built cars as a hobby, they knew I wasn't afraid to get wrenching. That has allowed me to have an edge over other Engineers as far as meeting the customer, and doing field work... maybe not typical ME work, but really gave me an edge being that I'm not afraid to throw on coveralls, and crawl deep within the hull of a Stryker of LAV military vehicle, which is also probably a factor as to why I'm already a senior level engineer.

So cliff notes: an ME who can wrench is a huge plus.

[Rifleman_Racing]

So cliff notes: an ME who can wrench is a huge plus.

Very accurate.

There is a huge pay disparity between the two degrees, but your student loans will end up being the same. If you can, then you should get your BSME.

[mmosley]

I was a Light Wheel Vehicle Mechanic in the USAR 1986-1992. After basic and AIT I returned to Fort Living Room and worked "regular jobs" and wrenching as I went to school for my Associates in Automotive Technology which I received in spring 1990. And I worked.... became an ASE Certified Master Tech in December 1990. And I worked... and went to college while working, received my BSME in 1997. Worked some more... went back in summer of 2003 for my Masters, completed my MSME (Dynamic Systems and Controls) in December 2005 while working as a senior engineer in one of UT Austin's research centers. My BSME and MSME are both from UT Austin.

I have worked with METs, MEs, and PhD MEs. I have worked with people who went to schools like Stanford, MIT, and little schools I have never heard of before. I have done MFG Engineering support, system design, mechanical design, product development, and R&D. Currently I work as a Photolithography Process and Equipment Engineer in a semiconductor MFG facility.

Generally speaking, METs are hired as technicians and are paid hourly. They work as techs and as Mechanical Designers. Some companies will hire them and give them engineering titles, make them exempt salary workers, but do not pay them Engineer wages. Basically, few companies will give an MET a chance as an Engineer, those that do usually do not pay well and are just trying to save money. In the long run, typically, the Engineer will have better opportunities and better pay.

Before you commit to a program ask to see placement rates, mean and median salaries for the graduates of the programs. I transferred from UT El Paso as a Sophomore to UT Austin because the opportunities were much better and thus the starting salaries were better. Talk to people that have graduated if you can. When I graduated with my BSME the automotive industry was on the low end of the pay scale compared with my other options. I opted to stay in Texas and went into the semiconductor industry.

[reschke18]

I have an ME degree and am very glad I did it. The possibilities are near endless. In fact, I am now in more of an EE position. If you can buckle down and develop good study habits throughout college, you will be able to do it. Does an ME make more? Yes, but as stated earlier, my stress levels at times are through the roof. To whom much is given, much is expected.
Also, you can get your PE license with an ME degree and you can't get that with a MET.

[SShep71]

Thanks for the input, it more or less reinforced the idea that I already had. I really want to stay in San Diego or the SoCal area. Although I am really not a fan of California because of all the nonsense rules, laws, and people who are insistent on making your business THEIR business. I guess it just comes with the territory. Thankfully I have found that most of the people on here from SoCal don't follow into that category and that gives me hope. I am married but there are no kids, nor are there any mediate plans for kids. As far as dream job, well I don't have a dream job. I would like to find something where all of my experience is used and taken advantage of. I of course would love to wind up in the automotive, aerospace, or similar field. I have to agree that one of th eimportant things I have been told is that a ME with ample time with a wrench or a welder is a STRONG selling point. One of the reasons that I have decided to go this route is that for a very long time I have been told that my ability to solve problems, troubleshoot, and the way I can create and understand systems would make for a hell of an ME. Its actually one of the companies I do "consulting" (I use that term very loosely) for is owned by a ME professor. I help her solve problems and design systems for her products. She tells me time and time again that I need to just suck up the math and go for it. Which brings me to the main reason that I have considered going with MET instead of ME. My math isn't very strong, not in a "I dont know it" sense, but more of a "I never had someone to truly explain things to me" sense. I was always the kid asking "WHY?" and I was always just pushed to the back of the room and well we all know what happens as a result. I am worried about the math, I would never deny it. I hear about how intimidating it can be and that is scary. I joked with the math chair about how I have been in some seriously crazy situations and came out cool and calm, but math scares the crap out of me still. I don't want to cop out of anything and go the easy route, I just want to make sure that I wasn't going to make decisions without first hand feedback. I apologize for making this long winded, but I feel its all relevant. In the end I just want to make good money that will support my wife and I, so I can have some toys, a nice house, and the garage I always wanted. I want to teach people that can't afford or don't have time for school, how to do whatever it is they want to know without charging them. Instructing is something I have always been good at, and I love to do it. Thanks again for the feedback, and please let me know what you think.

[carguykeith]

Well I guess I've got a weird MET degree… It was a 4 year BS degree with calculus I thru III and I was able to get my PE license just like an ME degree. I would agree with the overall sentiment of the group though, get a real BS degree that you can get a PE license in and not an associates or some such thing. Also know as an engineer you make good $ but not great, to hit 6 figures you're really looking at management or something pretty specialized regardless of degree. As for the math, I say just go for it! If you have a good head on your shoulders and study you'll do just fine.

[ugotdubbz]

Well I guess I've got a weird MET degree… It was a 4 year BS degree with calculus I thru III and I was able to get my PE license just like an ME degree. I would agree with the overall sentiment of the group though, get a real BS degree that you can get a PE license in and not an associates or some such thing. Also know as an engineer you make good $ but not great, to hit 6 figures you're really looking at management or something pretty specialized regardless of degree. As for the math, I say just go for it! If you have a good head on your shoulders and study you'll do just fine.

I agree. If you do go with the MET get the 4 year BS one. That is the one I have. I also agree that the 100K jobs, at least in central Virginia, will be management positions with several years of experience. We have had a lot of our BSME's and a couple BSMET's get their MBA degree and move into other departments such as sales and production management.

[TCRugger]

I'm not sure about other areas in the country, but here in Houston the average starting salary for both a BSME and a BSMET right out of school, is about $65000 a year. There were quite a few people out of my MET degree program getting hired at about $75000-85000 a year. Depends on the company. That being said, the main differences between the two degrees is the amount of Calculus, and the focus on technical work. My MET degree only required Cal II and most of my labs were hands on, while a ME degree requires at least Cal III. A lot of companies will interview a ME before a MET, and some will not even look at a MET. A ME degree is better, but a MET degree will still get you a reasonable paying job, at least here in Houston. I will be starting my masters degree next year, but I'm still trying to decide which program to choose. Maybe a MBA, MSMET, or MSME.

[mmosley]

I'm not sure about other areas in the country, but here in Houston the average starting salary for both a BSME and a BSMET right out of school, is about $65000 a year. There were quite a few people out of my MET degree program getting hired at about $75000-85000 a year. Depends on the company. That being said, the main differences between the two degrees is the amount of Calculus, and the focus on technical work. My MET degree only required Cal II and most of my labs were hands on, while a ME degree requires at least Cal III. A lot of companies will interview a ME before a MET, and some will not even look at a MET. A ME degree is better, but a MET degree will still get you a reasonable paying job, at least here in Houston. I will be starting my masters degree next year, but I'm still trying to decide which program to choose. Maybe a MBA, MSMET, or MSME.

Houston is running a huge shortage of MEs because of the current situation in the oil industry. That moves in cycles.

[mmosley]

Instructing is something I have always been good at, and I love to do it.

Start tutoring math. Start at a level you are comfortable with, work your way up. Even if you start doing it as a volunteer at a lower level. I tutored Math and Physics at El Paso Community College while attending UTEP. When I moved to Austin, I tutored at Austin Community College while attending UT Austin.

Math is the language of engineering. To make your life liveable in the upper division classes you need to have a reasonable level of proficiency. When I hit the upper division classes the math was so easy for me due to the tutoring background that all I had to focus on was the engineering information. My first Dynamics exam at UT Austin took me 25 minutes to complete... most people took the full hour.

[Bryce]

I am a staff engineer 5 years out of college. The degree and my hands on skills got the job that I really enjoy. I make enough to live in san diego and have my wife stay home with the kids and maintain a car hobby.

[cornfedbill]

I always wanted to get into the automotive industry. I was in ME, but chose to specialize in Automotive Engineering Technology. I am not sure anyone even offers the degree anymore.

My advice is to go ME all the way. I struggled early in my career to prove I could be an engineer. Now, with 25 years of experience, it does not matter anymore. But the early years proved more of a struggle because I was not a pure engineer.

I have spent my entire career in the auto industry and have seen some pretty cool stuff. The hallmark was working on the LS7 intake and fuel system. I spent weeks with my technician on the flow bench. It has been a lot of fun and a lot of hard work along the way.

I ended up with a unique specialty (fuel injection systems) that has landed me some great opportunities and has allowed me to earn a pretty good salary. It happened more by luck than by good planning on my part. What mattered was that I was flexible and willing to take risks. To get where I am I moved to Southeast Michigan when I graduated school, then to Tennessee, to Western Michigan, back to Southeast Michigan, to Tokyo and back to Southeast Michigan and now to Colorado.

It was not the easiest path. But because I was willing to step out and be the guy to take a chance, I passed many of my coworkers in earnings and opportunities.

I still believe it would have been easier with an ME degree instead of the AET degree I have though.

[Typhoon1015]

I started school with a ME degree, went 2 years and didnt do too hot in the math area, I switched to MET and finished with respectable grades.

I am 5 years out and am working as Development Engineer Tech for a company that supplies parts to hard drive manufacturers. I would love to branch into the automotive world at some point.

Some days I wish I would have stuck it out with the ME, but it is what it is. I am looking into a MBA now as a addition.

[Rifleman_Racing]

My uncle works in the semi conductor industry making hard drives, got his masters, and it did nothing for him. He is really underpaid. He is getting into cloud engineering soon, and will make a lot more right off the bat. Just as a base line here is a job that any ME could do:
https://jobs.ca.gov/Bulletin/Bulletin/Index?examCD=7PB42

and that will give you an idea of the base salary to expect if you end up in the right field.

[cornfedbill]

My uncle works in the semi conductor industry making hard drives, got his masters, and it did nothing for him. He is really underpaid. He is getting into cloud engineering soon, and will make a lot more right off the bat. Just as a base line here is a job that any ME could do:
https://jobs.ca.gov/Bulletin/Bulletin/Index?examCD=7PB42

and that will give you an idea of the base salary to expect if you end up in the right field.

Advanced degrees - Masters, PhD, etc. - usually only help in pure research positions. I have worked with many engineers with Masters or PhD degrees who earned as much as me or less. I would recommend that most hands-on types stick with a BS and save the time and money of a higher degree. If you love analysis and research, that is a different story.

[SShep71]

I am not even considering a Masters or PHD at this point. I know the MET is a Bachelors degree but at this point I am going to have to plan on sucking it up and doing the ME degree. I intend to take the test to get my certification from the AWS to be a certified Welding Engineer as soon as I meet the requirements. I am nervous about (and I hate to admit it) my age, I am 30 right now and prob will be about 37 by the time I am finished. How will that impact my job search? I already have a place that can offer me an internship while I am in school. So I think (read: think) that I can come out of this pretty experienced with school, experience and an internship.

[carguykeith]

My college roomate was in his mid 30's when he decided to go back to school and had no problem getting a job when he graduated. I've moved into a management position and would honestly look more favorably at a new hire in his 30's than 20's. There's always exceptions to the rule, but in my experience more 30 year olds are concerned about thier career's than 20 year olds.

[mmosley]

I already have a place that can offer me an internship while I am in school.

If they cover tuition and fees that would be a bonus! Some places do. Most companies I have worked for, including my current employer, hire most of their interns.

[Wesley J]

I'm not sure how it is down there but up here in the Great White North, most Technologist dimplomas can be use towards an Engineering degree, normally on par for the first 2 years. Honestly, most Universities have intelligent people in the admissions department and if you have a few years of technical work under your belt as a Technologist then you're kind of a no brainer to roll right into Engineering. I have quite a few friends who have gone this route.

I believe that this is probably the best route, not only from a financial perspective, but also from a learning perspective. Also, advance degrees are not more advanced than an undergrad degree IMHO, simply more of the same but only forcused on one topic that allows the University to bring in research dollars. Wasted time I say.

Unfortunately, I agree with some others on here. I dont love being an Engineer but at my pay scale, I am happy to moderately enjoy work and LOVE my time in my shop and with my family.

Hope I provided something useful.

Wesley J (I'm a 15 year Engineer working in the Oil & Gas industry)

Edit: I should note that I hire people quite frequently (6 this year so far) and in no way does age come into play. Career direction is much more important as you want an employee who will grow with a company. I'm speaking from a technical staffing perpective.

[cornfedbill]

Being 37 with experience when you graduate is not a bad thing. On the job experience in addition to a degree is normally a plus. Also, most older employees show a level of maturity that is valuable to employers. I was 26 when I graduated. It helped me over the 22 year olds who lacked real world experience.

If you do not finish your degree, you will still be 37, but without a degree and without the opportunities a degree offers.

Just keep on track and go for it.

[wfo guy]

Interesting thread to all who posted. Us real old guys are interested in what it takes in degrees to get a chance today. Math skills have always been important. I appreciate the comments of having hands on skills and exp. also. Best of luck to the people starting out.

[Beach Cruiser]

I chose the ME path, not the MET, It's been very good to me. But I can say that most of the guys that I work with did the MET route. Are you Navy Nuke by chance? Most of those guys were and it only took them two+ years to get the degree. If that's the case, then go MET, if not suck it up and do the Math. (no pun, well a little) Once you get your first Job and have Engineering experience, most employers don't really look for transcripts, especially in your late 30's. Only reason I say MET if you have the Nuke experience is the payback on the loans and the time you'll be in school. I have my PE, but I don't use it, most Jobs in the Automotive field won't require it anyway. It all depends on what you want to do and the kind of job you want. If you want to sit behind a desk and design stuff, then ME is the way to go, if you want to put on your boots and go out in the field and "build" stuff, then MET may be a better route. I've done both, and prefer to have my boots on the ground. My 2 cents, but that's just me.

[MecHED]

I'm a ME. Graduated Dec 2012 from TX A&M. I will say you've gotten pretty good advise and at this point I can only add my personal experience.

You can turn your degree into anything you want to. I started towards ME based on my love for cars. Once I got in it I was exposed to the breadth of the curriculum. I found that I was really interested in controls and automation. Now I work in industrial automation and specialize in variable frequency motor drives...that should require an EE!!

My buddy graduated from the same school, at the same time, with a MET, went to work at the same company, at the same time, for the same pay except he is specializing in industrial software and servers...so go figure. Although I do razz him about how he's just an engineering tech ;')

I will say ME IS HARD. Be prepared for pulled hair, shed tears, and with great faith...answered prayers. I will also say that I use the hardcore math/physics more often in my hobbies than in my job. But I think that will pay off in the future when I'm working for myself and collecting more than $35 of the $250/hr they charge the customers for my time.

The take away? Direction is key, figure out what you want to do then 'engineer' the best path towards it. Then don't give up. It took me 5.5 years to get my degree. I used all the drops my univ allowed AND I took F's on my transcript. But I didn't give up and my company acknowledged my direction and determination when they hired me. Engineering degrees are tests in themselves, to see if you can make it out the other side.