401K vs. Classic Cars??

[Joseph Scott]

http://carsandcoffeetalk.blogspot.com/2014/02/buying-classic-carhind-sight-is-always.html

Who is planning to sell their 401K and start investing in Classic Cars........read my newest blog and find out if you can make it work?????

[BMR Sales]

Heck I've been doing this for Years - I call it the TC101 RollOver Plan, especially with Projects. I try to do 1 or 2 Project Cars a Year with the Intention of Selling and reinvesting the funds to the next car. I rode the Wave on Porsches ( some Insane Price increases - 930 Turbos, Early 911 Longhoods and 914-6s), in the last Year, I've Sold 3 Porsches and made good money on each. One I sold too soon as within Months it was worth $25,000 More.

The Key to investing in cars (in my opinion) is Buying a Car "Right". If you buy any car at the right price, you can always make money. However if you Buy at the Top of the Wave, you could lose. Forecasting what car will go up and by how much is a Crap-Shoot. I remember Road & Track did an Article around 1990 about this and they were wrong as much as they were right. I think as much as trying to make money, you should buy a car that you like, so that if the Market does not go up, you enjoy the car - for instance I would never buy a Shelby GLH, because I thought they were Ugly little boxes.

Remember these are my opinions, I am not a Financial Advisor, but I have slept at a Holiday Inn Express!

[BMR Sales]

There was a Similar Article on Yahoo Autos last week that had some better car choices. On this CNN List, I think the only potential Winner is the Mustang, but there were so many made. Maybe the Spitfire, if you can find one that is not Rusty. The VW Beetle, I thought would go up in the late 90s when the New Beetle came out (my Father in Law Bought one thinking it would make $$), but it didn't. I don't ever seeing a Market for the Pacer!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

shooot...

keep an eye out for the Datsun 240Z... Mazda RX3.. and Toyota TE27 SR5


youll thank me later..

[badazz81z28]

Sounds more like a business than a savings plan. If you have to buy a car, fix it up, and sell it...thats a job.

IMHO very risky to invest in cars. Really sense less IMHO. When you have a nice collection going...you have to be able to sell them down the road to get your money and some back. Even then, thats after you invest more money to keep them up over the years. Not practical as the market moves so much. Besides, the population who is looking to buy and has the money to do it is LOW.

a 401K or a ROTH is much wiser decision. Don't invest in cars to secure your future.

[davidomilligan]

Sounds more like you are taking an expensive hobby and helping it pay for itself after you already invested your money with a slight gamble involved

[bs46488]

401k, mutual funds, classic cars, or even real estate....its all part of a retirement investment portfolio. You just have to know when/what to buy. People were doing the same thing with investment properties/house flipping until the market crashed.

Its hard to say what is going to be "hot".

I like the 5.0 Fox body mustangs. There were so many made and they have all been beaten up, put away wet, then beaten up some more. I'm not sure I agree with the investment potential of them.

I think Vengeance is on to something with the import cars.

[ADiCarlo]

I have to agree with import cars. It's what's got me here and enough money to buy my camaro shell.

The return will be low but so will be the investment.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

oh yea.. add to the list..

AE86 HATCHBACK...

Firstgen Celica




theres a reason I have one of all of these..

The kids right now are SCREAMING to get these.. and when they grow up..

look at it like this.. my neighborhood kids come by my house to ask about my Celica and Z.. they even post it up on their instagrams..




the Z is really getting its due lately.. there are still many more in good condition.. and one sold at some auction a few months back at 80k impeccable build..


give it time.. youll see.

[Munssey]

If you take your investment car out for a shakedown run and get T-boned by a drunk driver, is that a version of a stock market crash??

Okay, lame joke but no one else made it yet.

My problem is that I'd be too attached to the cars to sell them for a profit.

[srh3trinity]

If you were to do investment cars, the more original and desirable colors the better. Custom cars will always be a losing endeavor. Probably best to learn one car inside and out and deal mostly with those. I think C3 corvettes and second gen Camaros would have been decent investments a few years back. You wouldn't have made a fortune on them, but solid returns.

[BMR Sales]

If you take your investment car out for a shakedown run and get T-boned by a drunk driver, is that a version of a stock market crash??



Not if you have it Insured for! My Cars are typically Insured for Twice what I have in them.

[BMR Sales]

401k, mutual funds, classic cars, or even real estate....its all part of a retirement investment portfolio. You just have to know when/what to buy. People were doing the same thing with investment properties/house flipping until the market crashed.

Its hard to say what is going to be "hot".

I like the 5.0 Fox body mustangs. There were so many made and they have all been beaten up, put away wet, then beaten up some more. I'm not sure I agree with the investment potential of them.

I think Vengeance is on to something with the import cars.

I think you have to look at was popular at the time they were New and go from there, as those cars have built in appeal. I agree that most Fox Bodys have been beat to crap. But if you find one that hasn't, put it away, because that Kid that ragged one out in 1989 might someday be a CEO and will want his Old HS Car. Same goes for Clapped out Honda Civics with Fart Can Exhausts.

[Nicks67GTO]

401k all day long. IMO the muscle car craze is at its peak. It will be at peak for another 15 years or so but it will dwindle with all the boomers eventually dieing off and no one my age {31} caring much at all about the hobby. Lets all be honest too....these articles about cheap modern classics are a joke IMO. No one is going to give musclecar money for most of these cars. The 64-72 Detroit car era was a special time that wont ever happen again.

[BMR Sales]

401k all day long. IMO the muscle car craze is at its peak. It will be at peak for another 15 years or so but it will dwindle with all the boomers eventually dieing off and no one my age {31} caring much at all about the hobby. Lets all be honest too....these articles about cheap modern classics are a joke IMO. No one is going to give musclecar money for most of these cars. The 64-72 Detroit car era was a special time that wont ever happen again.

Yeah, once the Boomers start getting Senile our cars are done just like Model T's are now!

However, your 2nd part might not be correct. Whenever people get to an age where they have disposable income they want the cars of their youth. We have seen this with the 30&40's HotRods, the 55-57 Chevy craze, the 64-72 Muscle Car era - but the late 70's Porsche Turbos are Hot right now. I see other 80s-90s car that will come front & center. I have no doubt that a Mint Honda Civic Si will someday bring $20k+. Acura NSX's & Honda S2000's are going up in price.

[Nicks67GTO]

Yeah, once the Boomers start getting Senile our cars are done just like Model T's are now!

However, your 2nd part might not be correct. Whenever people get to an age where they have disposable income they want the cars of their youth. We have seen this with the 30&40's HotRods, the 55-57 Chevy craze, the 64-72 Muscle Car era - but the late 70's Porsche Turbos are Hot right now. I see other 80s-90s car that will come front & center. I have no doubt that a Mint Honda Civic Si will someday bring $20k+. Acura NSX's & Honda S2000's are going up in price.

Yeah im still betting on my 401k....

If im not mistaken model T's have taken a nose dive in the last 20 years haven't they? Because the guys that loved them are kind of all getting to be about that age? Again...31 here. Iv'e owned some early 90's Z24's, a few trucks, and a bunch of old vintage iron. No one I know gives a single crap about their 90's ford escort gt, taurus sho, cavalier z24 that they used to drive. No one is sticking these in garages and holding on to them because they were awesome. Pre 72' cars had flair, attitude, individuality. Even the family sedan was something to behold back then. Wagons were even cool. Pretty much, cars were built for style then. That hasn't been the case for almost 35 years. Most cars built since the 80's have been plain jane commuters. There are some cars like the Turbo Buicks and Bandit Trans Ams, Shelby mustangs etc that are exceptions but overall it isn't what it used to be. The modern musclcar age is certainly fun and the performance is unbelievable but i just don't think they will have the staying power. The new musclecar era is being fueled by a lot of older guys too. Remember highschool and early 20's guys cant afford that stuff because there aren't much for good jobs available without a skill set like there used to be. to get that skillset you go into huge debt with college most of the time. That doesnt leave a lot for hotrods. JMO

[BMR Sales]

Were reading the same Book, even if we aren't on the Same Page. 15 Years ago, nobody was putting Chevelles away for the Future, they were Drag Racing them, beating the Snot out of them! They were Cheap, heck I remember having a 68 GTO as a Winter Beater car when I lived up North in 1980.

I think the New Horse Power Era is happening Right Now! Yes it is being Driven by people with Money (Older Guys), but that doesn't stop Kids from Lusting over Them. The Power Numbers coming from Vipers, Vettes, Camaros, Shelbys, Porsche, Audi, Ferrari are Insane. You need $$ to get in the game, but the Values of these cars fall off quickly - for Instance, a Porsche Carrera GT (the one Paul Walker died in) was a $600,000 New Vehicle, now very Low-Mileage cars are in the $260,000-300,000 Range. They will rebound. A 1989 Porsche 911 Speedster was a $100k+ car new, fell to about $35k and now back over $100k. Low Mileage Audi R8s are coming off-lease and are good Buys. If you are going to make money with cars, you Have to do the Buy-In correctly!

[Nicks67GTO]

I guess we will just have to wait 20 years and see.....maybe pull this thread back up and one of can yell "I TOLD YOU SO!!" HAHA

Seriously though I think the stark contrast here between our arguements is that detroit muscle cars were cheap vehicles with low options that looked awesome, went fast, and just about anyone could buy one if they really wanted to. Of the cars you listed above the most affordable one is probably the Shelby and its pricetag out the gate is $60K+ or pretty much unaffordable now....and horribly unaffordable when most of them are gone and guys are bidding on them in the future. Just like an old ZL1 Camaro. $7500 for one in 69' was a massive pricetag more than double that of a regular car. Now they go for the unobtanium amount of $300K. Completely out of this world for 99% of the population. I think there will be a market for these special performance vehicles, Shelbys, ZL1's etc forever and someone will buy them later on for more but its just not going to be the same as it is with the old detroit muscle where just about ever car popped out between 55-72 has a rabid following. The basic Chevrolet lineup for instance in the 60's was Corvair, ChevyII/Nova, Chevelle, BelAir, chevelle Wagon, Belair Wagon, C-10. All of those have a serious following and have for decades. The current lineup I couldnt even tell you about because I have no idea and I do not care in the least and im a car guy. There is no passion for these cars and I doubt there ever will be.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

I guess we will just have to wait 20 years and see.....maybe pull this thread back up and one of can yell "I TOLD YOU SO!!" HAHA




Or itll be post world war 5 and were in the desert and im wearing assless chaps on top of my nitro truck swinging a chain at the first poor ******* with a double A battery and a rat leg to eat...

hows that for your 401K?... I just shot you with a crossbow.

I TOLD YOU SOOO!!!

[Nicks67GTO]

Or itll be post world war 5 and were in the desert and im wearing assless chaps on top of my nitro truck swinging a chain at the first poor ******* with a double A battery and a rat leg to eat...

hows that for your 401K?... I just shot you with a crossbow.

I TOLD YOU SOOO!!!

Fair warning good sir....ill be sleeping with one eye open. I must caution you....it will be a cold day in hell before you take my AA battery and ratleg

**Keeps eye out for nitrotruck and crossbow weilding lunatic in assless chaps**

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Fair warning good sir....ill be sleeping with one eye open. I must caution you....it will be a cold day in hell before you take my AA battery and ratleg


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**Keeps eye out for nitrotruck and crossbow weilding lunatic in assless chaps**



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/giphy-1.gif

[Joseph Scott]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/classic-cars-best-alternative-investment-163501671.html

Here is another article from Yahoo about the subject!

[BonzoHansen]

401k all day long. IMO the muscle car craze is at its peak. It will be at peak for another 15 years or so but it will dwindle with all the boomers eventually dieing off and no one my age {31} caring much at all about the hobby. Lets all be honest too....these articles about cheap modern classics are a joke IMO. No one is going to give musclecar money for most of these cars. The 64-72 Detroit car era was a special time that wont ever happen again.

the trend of young people not wanting to drive or caring about cars like previous generations, law changes, self driving cars, EPA rules - that is a lot of IFs in a long term investing/marketing plan.

[vintageracer]

2 ways to win with the Redneck 401K (old Cars & collectibles).

1 involves getting most any car or collectible for free or damn near free. That way you have little to nothing invested and the only way to go is up!

There no future in buying $20K up cars for long-term investment potential. The time value of money always catches or kills. Besides you have the cost of upkeep and storage.

2 might be a winner IF you could use your 401K as your own floor plan money to buy and sell cars. That would work IF you bought cars you could sell/flip quickly and not the cars you like. That's the killer for most folks. Most folks buy what they like not what sells. The key here would be to sell quickly and often banking the profit.

The one BIG problem I see for increased value in collectibles in the future is that I believe that the next several generation will NOT be as affluent and successful financially as the current Baby Boomer generation that now drives the collectibles market. The young folks today as a "Whole" are just NOT going to have the extra cash available to splurge on their dreams. You have seen the peak of the of a generation with the "Extra Cash" to indulge their pleasures and that generation is on the downside of their splurging. Yes future generations will have interest's in hobbies and cars however that interest will not generate near the revenue you now see spent on hobbies and toys.

The one thing olds cars are good for and why rich guys buy lot's of them is to hide cash!

But that's a WHOLE NOTHER STORY!

[Nicks67GTO]

There no future in buying $20K up cars for long-term investment potential. The time value of money always catches or kills. Besides you have the cost of upkeep and storage.

The one BIG problem I see for increased value in collectibles in the future is that I believe that the next several generation will NOT be as affluent and successful financially as the current Baby Boomer generation that now drives the collectibles market. The young folks today as a "Whole" are just NOT going to have the extra cash available to splurge on their dreams. You have seen the peak of the of a generation with the "Extra Cash" to indulge their pleasures and that generation is on the downside of their splurging. Yes future generations will have interest's in hobbies and cars however that interest will not generate near the revenue you now see spent on hobbies and toys.

The one thing olds cars are good for and why rich guys buy lot's of them is to hide cash!

But that's a WHOLE NOTHER STORY!

X2...its a different economy that it was even 20 years ago and I dont think the "good old days" of a strong dollar and plentiful semi skilled jobs and middle class guys having loose cash, are ever coming back. I work in a factory where there used to be 16,000 blue collar wage employees in the early 80's. The company was profitable and the jobs were awesome. The wage employees used to have new cars, nice cabins on the river etc. Fast forward 30 years and there are now 4000 employees, the company is wildly profitable and the jobs are still really good compared to everything else around here but just not what they were 30 years ago. The reason I say this is because its a classic example of what has been happening across the nation in a lot of the job industry as a whole.

[vintageracer]

X2...I work in a factory where there used to be 16,000 blue collar wage employees in the early 80's. The company was profitable and the jobs were awesome. The wage employees used to have new cars, nice cabins on the river etc. Fast forward 30 years and there are now 4000 employees, the company is wildly profitable and the jobs are still really good compared to everything else around here but just not what they were 30 years ago.


Here is the "Dirty Little Secret" the politicians forgot to talk about.

Where did all those jobs go?

Overseas? HELL NO!

THOSE JOBS WENT TO A MACHINE!!!!

I am NO different. If I can buy a machine to replace a person I am ALL IN! Bye Bye employee!

The machine always shows up, repeats the EXACT same work every time, the machine can work 23 hours a day, NO health insurance, NO workers comp, NO un-employment insurance, NO union, You get the idea.

It's probably a safe bet to say that the facility in which you work probably makes the same amount or MORE product today than they did in the 1980's with 20% of the employees.

Welcome to the future workforce and the future is here!

[Jetfixr320]

Here is the "Dirty Little Secret" the politicians forgot to talk about.

Where did all those jobs go?

Overseas? HELL NO!

THOSE JOBS WENT TO A MACHINE!!!!

I am NO different. If I can buy a machine to replace a person I am ALL IN! Bye Bye employee!

The machine always shows up, repeats the EXACT same work every time, the machine can work 23 hours a day, NO health insurance, NO workers comp, NO un-employment insurance, NO union, You get the idea.

It's probably a safe bet to say that the facility in which you work probably makes the same amount or MORE product today than they did in the 1980's with 20% of the employees.

Welcome to the future workforce and the future is here!

Plenty of Empty shuttered factory's to counter the claim of the jobs all went to machines. And plenty of Shipping Ports on both coast with container ships packed to the gills with cheaply produced products. And larger airports with B-747F's landing carrying tons of Freight in from China.

All the corn fields around Indianapolis are disappearing and being filled with buildings, not factory's full of machines, but warehouses full of shelving and temporary employees that have no health or unemployment benefits. Making $10 a hour.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

ready those assless chaps and a chain to swing..