Mopar and Pro Touring

[vdaviemusclecars]

Thinking of adding a Mopar to what I have already. My worry is that there is not much out there as far as Pro Touring stuff, ie, suspension ect.. I am looking at 68,69 Chargers, maybe a Road Runner and even a Dart. It seems a lot of them didn't have power steering, brakes ect.. and boy those engine bays look pretty tight. Any thoughts?


Thanks,
Vince

[MidnightSpecial]

Well you wont beat the commonness of GM parts but Mopar certainly has a good bit out there.

Magnumforce
Hotchkis
Firm Feel
Schwartz Performance
Reilly Motorsports
Performance Online
XV Motorsports
and many many more.

I have a 1968 Coronet. I pretty much have a list of every single performance upgrade I want and didn't have too much trouble finding it. Now the funds to buy all of the parts is another issue.

[vdaviemusclecars]

I know what you mean. The Chargers that I have been looking at are 40k with drum brakes and no power steering. I don't want numbers matching cars, I have enough of them. But to pay 40k for a nice one then have to put power steering in it just seems a bit much.

Vince

[72BBSwinger]

Dr. Diff is an excellent (and affordable) supplier for brakes and diff components for Mopars. Borgeson has an excellent bolt in steering box that can be supplied from Bergman Autocraft. Firm Feel has a great selection of torsion bars and other suspension components. There are plenty of good things out there and a 68-69 Charger is the same suspension as the Hotchkis Taxi fyi and that car fly's with a whole lotta stock under it. IMO there isnt alot of aftermarket available for Mopars simply because they dont NEED as much improvement as some of the Brand X ssuspension train wrecks.

[rjsjea]

You'll find plenty of suspension, brakes and engine options.....as far as Sheetmetal, AMD is really the only way to go.

[Damn True]

How about a Hemi Dart clone? But instead of a drag setup, build it as a lightweight, short wheelbase autocrosser?

[vdaviemusclecars]

I was thinking that as some of the B bodies are pretty big cars. dealer on Ebay has a black A body with a nice hood scoop for ok money but no power brakes, steering and has a 360 in it. I have been talking to a guy with a pretty cool looking black RT clone but he wants 39k but again, no power steering or brakes. Really nice paint and body though.

Vince

[Damn True]

Seems that the OE power steering and brake systems would be throw-away items if your intent is toward a performance build. You'd upgrade both with aftermarket systems right? Why pay a premium for a car that has the OE systems?

[72BBSwinger]

Seems that the OE power steering and brake systems would be throw-away items if your intent is toward a performance build. You'd upgrade both with aftermarket systems right? Why pay a premium for a car that has the OE systems?
EXACTLY! Manual brakes with a disc swap will take you a LONG way. Putting in a Borgeson steering box with a new Saginaw pump on is night and day better than oem. I would rather have a stripped out taxi to start with.

[mmosley]

Thinking of adding a Mopar to what I have already. My worry is that there is not much out there as far as Pro Touring stuff, ie, suspension ect.. I am looking at 68,69 Chargers, maybe a Road Runner and even a Dart. It seems a lot of them didn't have power steering, brakes ect.. and boy those engine bays look pretty tight. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Vince

Yes, I have heard that you can't put a 440 in the A body cars... guy told me that while standing in front of my car... so I opened the hood. Anyway, if you are looking for cookie cutter formula car that you can buy all the parts out of one catalog and have six sources to choose from for each and every part you don't want anything to do with Mopars. Parts are going to be more expensive than you think also. If you post a question on this forum you may only have one or two people who can help, not a hoard. When I go to a car show I typically do not have to specify color, year or wheel choice to tell someone which car is mine. Even at the Mopar shows, usually "the '68 Barracuda" is as far as I need to go... more than one in the same zip code is pretty rare. It also means that if you need a year model specific part you are going to have to do some work, network, and possibly lay out some cash. Then, finding a shop that knows these cars is also rare. Place I am having my paint / body done it has been a combination of their skills, the owner's knowledge (mostly E-body Mopars) and my 29 years of Mopar experience... so we muddle through.

[vdaviemusclecars]

Thanks for the comments. Any car I buy will have to have the body and paint already done. Not going through that again.

Vince

[Nothingface5384]

http://www.magnumforce.com/magnumforce_tubular_kmember.htm

[Auto Rod Technologies]

I love the mopar pro-touring cars!!!! I didn't see it mentioned but there is also alterktion for suspension..

[vdaviemusclecars]

Forgot about Magnum ... They are 20 minutes from me.

Thanks! Now just need to decide what Mopar to get.

Vince

[MS68EFI]

90058

We run lots of stuff on this thing. Everything from hydra boost, QA1 k-member and double adj shocks, EFI 440, Viper brakes, cooling all over the place, etc etc! None of this is cheap but we run pretty good and it's not a Camaro!

[vdaviemusclecars]

I would have to say the 68-69 Charger is my favorite, its a big ass car but love the lines of it. There is a guy in Phoenix that i'm trying to work a deal with. Its black, body and paint are really nice as is the interior but he has done nothing with suspension or anything else. He wants 40k for it and it has a 383 in it.

Vince

[MidnightSpecial]

What exactly is your goal with the car?

Do you work on them yourself?
Do you want the car fully complete when you buy it?
Will it spend more time on the track, cruising, or touring?

I see you have a pretty high budget. If you are wanting to create a autocross car I would say forget all the creature comfort models and pick up a base model Mopar (will generally weigh less from the get go) for around $10,000-$20,000. Thats running, driving, and has good paint/body. Then save the extra $20,000 in your budget to buy parts. You would be much better off spending $40,000 that way instead of just buying a complete resto. Most of the time full restos are pretty heavy as they are not track oriented.

[vdaviemusclecars]

I prob. wont be tracking the car much. I do make runs up in the mountains here in Norcal. I have not seen any cars for 20k that don't need paint and body work. I do the work myself except paint and body, hence wanting it already done. In my other Pro-Touring cars I do have a/c and I like having it. My ideal car would have a clean body and paint and a good motor that I could add an EFI, maybe heads, cam ect..

Vince

[Motorcitydak]

Do you check eBay much? Because a black 68 charger just sold on there numbers matching 4 speed for 30k

[vdaviemusclecars]

Hell, lucky I own my own business or I would be fired I'm on Ebay so much! I did see that and I thought it went for around 35k. It was a numbers car which I would be paying a premium for only to tear it up. There was a white one also that bid up to 30k I think but he wanted more because it was a numbers car.

Vince

[MidnightSpecial]

If you don't mind me asking, what area are you looking for? I'll help search. That way I can freak my girlfriend out looking for a car haha. Car searches are fun and addictive.

[MidnightSpecial]

This is a really nice looking 440 1970 cuda out of Metairie, Louisiana I see pop up on my "mopar" Craig's list searches

http://neworleans.en.craigslist.org/cto/4273668211.html

[vdaviemusclecars]

Sure, I could use all the help I can get. The body and paint have to be very nice..not a fan of yellow. No numbers cars for reasons I have stated. Black is always good if done right. The RT or a clone would be great. I have seen some 6-pack cars but I had a 440 6-pack before (numbers car) and hate dealing with the carbs. Besides I would like to do EFI. Road runners are starting to grow on me if its the right color. Some of the Challengers with the right color look good. I do like the big blocks, don't know much about the 383 so cant speak to them. Anything different that you don't see all the time always interests me.

Thanks for your help.

Vince

[MidnightSpecial]

Through the first beer after work. Got a few for you.


1966 Charger - Red w/ 383
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/4325210190.html

These cars can be made to be VERY COOL...check out this article in Mopar Muscle
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/featuredvehicles/b_body/1311_1966_dodge_charger_restomod_wedgeback/
************************************************** ********************************************

1969 Charger R/T Clone w/ 440

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/4327921016.html
************************************************** ********************************************

1968 Charger

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/4329849168.html
************************************************** ********************************************

Update:

1968 Charger

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/4301878171.html

[vdaviemusclecars]

Ok, that last one is pretty cool. I don't have the link here but there is one in phoenix craiglist..try to look it up and see what you think. Its listed for 39k, black. 55k is a bit more than I want to spend..35-40k

V

[Motorcitydak]

Not to rub it in your face but here is the one you missed out on. Keep an eye out everywhere

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301069258093?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Do not forget the car specific forums

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?board=7.0

[69 Charger 440]

There are plenty of quality aftermarket parts out there now for mopars. My 69 charger is running the full hotchkis TVS setup with baer brakes and it handles great. But there is all kinds of tubular k frames, 4 links, and high quality parts if you want to go that route.

The tough part is finding decent ones here in California that are reasonably priced, especially in the bay area. Problem is right now the prices on b-bodies keep going up and don't look to be going down any time soon.

Here is a 69 in Redwood City. It has a six pack but you could always remove it and sell it to help fund the efi swap?

http://www.specialtysales.com/car.php?carnum=4547#descript

If you wait til June there is an all mopar show put on by Mopar Alley in Fremont that usually has some good cars for sale. And in march the pleasanton goodguys show usually has one or two for sale.

Also check out mopar specific sites, there are a bunch of different cars for sale. dodgecharger.com, forbbodiesonly.com, protouringmopar.com

[vdaviemusclecars]

Motorcity that looks to be a perfect candidate for what I want. It is hard finding one of these in Ca that's not all beat up believe it or not. A long time ago I went to that show in March, there was some nice cars there. I don't mind shipping the car but as we all know you take a big risk doing that. I have a few horror stories myself about that. I do appreciate all the help and suggestions.

Vince

[J-440]

Guess I got lucky. Back in '98 I paid $5000 for my 68 Charger and drove it home for 3 1/2 hours. Motor and tranny were rebuilt and it ran solid. It's a numbers matching 440 but after that, it's nothing special so I don't feel bad for blowing it apart. The 440 is a big motor, but so is the underhood space. Working on it is easy with lots of room. I would look for a small block 340 or 360 then put EFI and a turbo on it. Lighten the front end with a Magnumforce kit with Wilwood's. Anything done to a Camaro or Stang can be done to any Mopar. Road Runners are cool and cheaper than Chargers, plus the parts are identical so you can save a few bucks. Cudas and Challengers command ridiculous prices and their engine bays are smaller...but man, what beautiful cars!! Good luck brother, hope you find what you're looking for.

[mmosley]

I had a 440 6-pack before (numbers car) and hate dealing with the carbs.

These guys do six pack EFI conversions for the Mopars: http://www.fbthrottlebodies.com/

Check out thier Youtube video, my intake debuts 56 seconds into the video to about 1:24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fMlCgH5OFY

Guy in Houston does REALLY good high quality fiberglass six pack air cleaners: http://www.hybrid-fiberglass-solutions.com/

Year One built this Roadrunner with a 505ci engine with the F&B EFI six pack conversion:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0703phr_1969_plymouth_road_runner/

[Auto Rod Technologies]

This is making me want to start my charger project!

[MrQuick]

Hey Vince!
Bam.....LOL I got bit myself. A lotto win will get me to actually finish it.


Take an average chevy budget then TT (Pi) it. Yes, its that bad.

Good luck with your search. I'll keep my eye out.

[72BBSwinger]

Here is one of my favorites.
http://www.protouringmopar.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3120&d=1362285450

[DirtShark]

I would look up Derek Carlson from the Hot Rod Shop in Rancho Cordova, Ca (Sacramento). They are Mopar guys and do fantastic work. Here is a pic of a Hemi Cuda they did for a customer in the Bay Area. Plently of Pro Touring flavor on this build.

90195

[vdaviemusclecars]

Hey Quick! been a long time. Hope all is well. I just started talking to a guy back east with a nice black RT so will see how that pans out. I am starting to like those Road Runners more and more. A few ones on Ebay now. Yes, It does look like there is some nice stuff out there for these cars. The prices are a bit high but after having a half a dozen Camaros and Chevelles and others its time to try something different. The search continues but I am narrowing it down to I think an RT or clone or a Road Runner...but then again.....


Vince

[MrQuick]

Hey Vince,

Yes it has.

Just be patient and the right car will find you. I like off beat models but I go for what will resale easily. Prices look good now, You couldnt build them for what they are asking for these cars. Remember 2006-2007. Bad time to buy.



Vince

[bonesfab]

We are doing a 69 charger pro-touring style right now.. We will probably be castrated by the purist as it is a factory sunroof car. Oh well... We are doing a 500 ci. wedge with a vortech, backed by a tko-600. Using alterkation front suspension and we will build the rear as a 4-link type system.. It is still in the body shop as of now.. Talk about expensive.. I paid 2800.00 for a cherry used grill for it.. :O

[vdaviemusclecars]

Ya, im seeing a lot of that sticker shock. There was a white RT on eBay that was pretty nice for white. The problem was it was so original I would feel bad tearing it up. Sold for 36k which was a good deal as it was very well documented with very nice paint and body.

Vince

[72BBSwinger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kASM04zuHlo
Bolt on Mopar B-body

[TonyHuntimer]

Ya, im seeing a lot of that sticker shock. There was a white RT on eBay that was pretty nice for white. The problem was it was so original I would feel bad tearing it up. Sold for 36k which was a good deal as it was very well documented with very nice paint and body.

Vince

Hey Vince,
Long time no see!
Welcome back to the money pit! :)

Tony Huntimer
TestCarDatabase

[vdaviemusclecars]

Hey Tony,
ya, went the exotic route for a while there but sold all of them but I still have a few of the old muscle and dare I say a few old German cars. Just wanting to do something different this time around. I see you keep churning out some good books on the subject. Hope all is well.

Vince

[Cris@JCG]

Here is one we built.. 70 Challenger that we grafted a sub-frame that we do for our in house Camaro's with Custom 3-link rear suspension.. It was a easy modification for our shop..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/IMG_0936_zps7837cc78-1.jpg (http://s1015.photobucket.com/user/jcgrestoration/media/IMG_0936_zps7837cc78.jpg.html)

[vdaviemusclecars]

Cris,

That's a nice looking ride! nice color! Always liked those hoods.

Vince

[vdaviemusclecars]

Cris,

That's a nice looking ride! nice color! Always liked those hoods. Had a B5 blue Challenger T/A but those hoods never fit worth a dam. Try finding an original hood now.

Vince

[Cris@JCG]

Thanks Vince! I am currently on a hunt for a 70 Cornet SuperBee for a custom build we are doing for a customer.. Never thought it would be so hard to locate a decent car or for that fact a 70 Cornet!


Cris,

That's a nice looking ride! nice color! Always liked those hoods. Had a B5 blue Challenger T/A but those hoods never fit worth a dam. Try finding an original hood now.

Vince

[vdaviemusclecars]

There is a guy back east that has a burnt orange one but has rust in the qtrs. Like that color but not the rust. emailed another guy that has a red one but not crazy about red. Yes, hard to find a good one for a fair price.

Vince

[Nothingface5384]

Do up an Abody or B body car
Can be had cheap and they still look good

[garyfish340]

If you still think you'd like a good shop to do the paint, and body, and you're handy enough to do the mechanical work, than an option might be one of the mopars lower down on the food chain. I'm working on a Duster as we speak. When I first decided to take on this project I had $10,000 for my starting budget, and realized fairly quickly that there were a bunch of dusters and dart, on racing junk that drag racers had dismantled, caged, and completely painted, that were ready for suspension, and drive train. I think my 1st choice was a completely dismantled duster that was on a rolling jig, and was freshly painted. If I purchased that car ( which came with trim, and parts, I still had enough money to cover almost all the Reilly Motorsports parts, than start a new budget for the drive train and be done ( but in my case I had the drive train from my previous project.)
In my case I went to the local stock car track, found the track's welder, and asked him how much it would be to install the cross over tube for the 4 link, and frame connectors, and for about $200 bucks, I was on my way.

[Removed user as requested]

I had 2, 68 Chargers. They can be gotten around the 20-25k mark without body issues. Mine was original sheet metal, rust free. Ran a 383ci motor but it was a clean, rust free car. It cost me 19,000 US 2 years ago. Prices haven't really changed since.

Now I have a 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle and am blown away by how 'cheap' stuff can be gotten and the shear amount of things to choose from. Now I wonder why i wasted money on a Charger that everything costs x2 that of anything else, and for what? For the fact nobody owns them so things cost heaps?

If you already have a pro-touring car, Personally I would stay clear from the Mopars, just ain't worth it in the end. If you are rich, then do what you like.

This blue Charger cost me 19k US

[Tomswheels]

The A body is not done yet....

http://lateapexphoto.com/p1027945703/e2f12e04f

[benno505]

yeh listen to old mate and be like every other person with the same boring car / engine/ suspension.
or get a mopar and be glad you didnt hit rock bottom with a chebbie.

I am loving this

[1965gp]

Half way through my General Lee build and I go through sticker shock every time I buy a part for it.

Upper door panels $1000??

I've always built Pontiacs and while not the cheapest cars to build- nothing like this and I am keeping most of it stock!

Still- badass cars.

[72BBSwinger]

I hope everybody does stay clear of them, that makes more for me me me me me.....

[Removed user as requested]

I hope everybody does stay clear of them, that makes more for me me me me me.....

You can have them lol.


yeh listen to old mate and be like every other person with the same boring car / engine/ suspension.
or get a mopar and be glad you didnt hit rock bottom with a chebbie.

I am loving this

That is the mentality I hated about Mopar people when I owned Mopar and probably why I don't fit in with Mopar crowed. They think their car is the best (made of Gold).

Perhaps Mopar people are just upset they have to spend 100% more money than Ford/Chevrolet owners do to get the same results. That does kind of suck especially when the Blue Oval is so legendary. Leman's winners, Trans Am winners etc, but yeah, don't be boring and get another legendary car, go buy a Mopar that nobody wanted and hence pay 100% more to get anywhere with it and then turn up to car shows thinking you are the best there while we laugh at how much you get ripped for parts. Nice Mopar Logic.

[benno505]

lol listen to it.

first of all i dont know why you got treated bad from mopar people probably cause you act the same around them as you do here.
second of all Ford is not much worse than mopar prices either mate.
third of all I don't know what parts you look at but my charger did not cost a lot more than a chevy would, to verify this I rang roadster shop and asked for a price to build one of the best pro touring cudas and Camaros, the cuda was $2000 more.
now shoo

[Removed user as requested]

lol listen to it.

first of all i dont know why you got treated bad from mopar people probably cause you act the same around them as you do here.
second of all Ford is not much worse than mopar prices either mate.
third of all I don't know what parts you look at but my charger did not cost a lot more than a chevy would, to verify this I rang roadster shop and asked for a price to build one of the best pro touring cudas and Camaros, the cuda was $2000 more.
now shoo

Acting like what? Cheap rubbish? Common rubbish? Boring junk? Chebbies? (Can't you spell it correctly?) Errrr that's all you buddy not me.

Cuda cost 2000 more than a camaro. Whoever you rang was on drugs or like my own experience with mopar guys "yeah that will cost 3000, you will get change from it". Once it was done, got an invoice for $6000. So much for 3k and change. Probably how you got told. Same cost, but if you went to do it would be double not 2k

[9mach9]

Is it just me or did this guy originally start this thread to get opinions about pro-touring MOPARs and related parts...? LOL!

This thread turned into the same drama that the "B-body vs. Chevelle" thread did.... Hmm...


In regards to the original topic:

Control Freaks also makes some neat suspension pieces for the Mopars.

[Removed user as requested]

Is it just me or did this guy originally start this thread to get opinions about pro-touring MOPARs and related parts...? LOL!

This thread turned into the same drama that the "B-body vs. Chevelle" thread did.... Hmm...


In regards to the original topic:

Control Freaks also makes some neat suspension pieces for the Mopars.

As per topic, the OP is considering to do a mopar. Unless the OP loves mopar and has to have a mopar, it wont be in the interest of his pocket to do one. If the OP has a lot of money that he does not mind spending, by all means get a Charger. I owned the blue one, it is a nice car. If the OP likes chargers as much as anything else, so can do with or without, it is not the ultimate to him, then save the dollars and dont even bark up that tree. Only do so if prepared to pay top dollar for something "you have to have".

[72BBSwinger]

This makes me laugh, if you're like most guys that are un-familiar with Mopars and/or come from building Shivvies and Dorf's then yes it is gonna cost more to build a Mopar. But if you're like many Mopar diehards and dont try to re-invent the wheel and keep the factory suspension design intact, they are a performance bargain. What does a DSE Camaro front clip cost? $9K? How about the rear? $3K? I just dont see where I have even 25% of that in my suspension. I think it is great that DSE exists and makes the great stuff they do, but I also love to see cars like Hotchkis' E-Max Challenger and the Taxi that are so simple they make most non-Mopar guys shake their head and walk away. Less is more....

[benno505]

is that what the dse clips cost?
in that case mopar is cheaper if not the same. i spent 10k got a magnumforce k member, 4 link, wilwood brakes, qa1 coil overs, sway bar, all powdercoated blah blah, and i am sure it has equal handling charachteristics. I am running 7* caster, 1.5* camber and 0 toe as it has 0 bumpsteer, all is made out of tig welded chromoly too, so top quality stuff.
so in this case chebbie is more expensive right? and if you build a big block chebbie and a big block mopar they are pretty close in price also, so i dont know where you get your information that mopar is 100% more expensive.

maybe if you were building a 100% correct numbers matching car, yeh it is worth more than a chebbie, you know why because its worth more than a chebbie, i think i saw a cuda sell for $3.5 million the other day, never even seen a camaro come close

[Nothingface5384]

As per topic, the OP is considering to do a mopar. Unless the OP loves mopar and has to have a mopar, it wont be in the interest of his pocket to do one. If the OP has a lot of money that he does not mind spending, by all means get a Charger. I owned the blue one, it is a nice car. If the OP likes chargers as much as anything else, so can do with or without, it is not the ultimate to him, then save the dollars and dont even bark up that tree. Only do so if prepared to pay top dollar for something "you have to have".

its called a 72-76 A-body or 66/67 B-body mopar

can get them 1500 to 6k..6k being really nice driver 1500-2500 being drivablr project..20 footer lol
then look at hotchkis, or RMS alterkation, Magnum force, AME 3-link
thats more then enough options

[9mach9]

I own/have owned all three brands of performance cars and at the moment posses as much LS stuff as anything... I also have old Mustangs and MOPARs. Here's the facts: I do the Hot Rod Power Tour every year, which is pretty much as cool as it gets for a car guy. If you haven't done it, your missing out. Whether it be the parking lot at the hotel in the evening or at the show, when a pro-touring style MOPAR pulls in people snap their necks and flock to it; more so than any other brand. They flat get the attention! Maybe because they are more rare... I don't know, but it happens. Once you get into aftermarket suspension, it all costs the same... Doesn't matter the brand!

[MrQuick]

is that what the dse clips cost?
in that case mopar is cheaper if not the same. i spent 10k got a magnumforce k member, 4 link, wilwood brakes, qa1 coil overs, sway bar, all powdercoated blah blah, and i am sure it has equal handling charachteristics. I am running 7* caster, 1.5* camber and 0 toe as it has 0 bumpsteer, all is made out of tig welded chromoly too, so top quality stuff.
so in this case chebbie is more expensive right? and if you build a big block chebbie and a big block mopar they are pretty close in price also, so i dont know where you get your information that mopar is 100% more expensive.

maybe if you were building a 100% correct numbers matching car, yeh it is worth more than a chebbie, you know why because its worth more than a chebbie, i think i saw a cuda sell for $3.5 million the other day, never even seen a camaro come close

Equal? You are sure? Hows that suspension working for you? Just sayin.
I've done some cheap stuff and never had speed wobbles...even at 140.

I have Chevy's Mopar's and Ford's. I love them all but I must say the Chevy's just feel better. Power, stopping and handling.

[Removed user as requested]

I think someone needs to learn to write "Chevrolet" or "Chevy". I mean, every post I see by benno is "Chebbie", what is that? I don't remember that brand ever existing. Just sayin'

[benno505]

Equal? You are sure? Hows that suspension working for you? Just sayin.
I've done some cheap stuff and never had speed wobbles...even at 140.

I have Chevy's Mopar's and Ford's. I love them all but I must say the Chevy's just feel better. Power, stopping and handling.

suspension works great, I adopted this problem in the last few weeks when I put new coil overs in.
Yes I do not see why they would not be pretty close to equal, if you do feel free to explain.

[benno505]

I think someone needs to learn to write "Chevrolet" or "Chevy". I mean, every post I see by benno is "Chebbie", what is that? I don't remember that brand ever existing. Just sayin'
you are really struggling to let it go aren't you mate, bit of butthurt going on maybe?

[viper11]

you could always go with something a little less main stream
watching ford/chevy/mopar battles always puts a grin on my face lol

100040

[go-fish]

you could always go with something a little less main stream
watching ford/chevy/mopar battles always puts a grin on my face lol



What would be great is if someone who has a Mopar with an LS transplant and 9" rear joined the argument. This is all non-sense. Aside from the initial price point and some restoration parts Mopar upgrade parts are no more expensive than that of other brands. Seat covers, metal, glass, carpet ... they are all priced near each other. My Wilwood kit is comparable to a Chevy kit. My TKO retrofit cost no more than the ones for Fords. I have looked into both LS and Gen III Hemi and they are comparable.

Where it gets expensive for Mopar is their grills and door panels. Also, Mopars are rust buckets due to the thinnest sheetmetal of the Big 3 and probably inferior draining than their competitors. Of course you will need more body work. The thing to do is buy one already done, as the OP plans, and upgrade brakes, suspension, and steering.... Stay away from 383's unless you are already planning a powerplant upgrade. They're like the 305 Chevy of the Mopar world.

To add to everything I have stated, you aren't going to find nearly as many CNC'd bits and carbon fiber fenders and hoods. If you are going for a high-end build then it would not be as economical as another make but a high-end build isn't necessarily an exercise in economics.

[1965gp]

Very well explained fish

[DTM Racing]

Stay away from 383's unless you are already planning a powerplant upgrade. They're like the 305 Chevy of the Mopar world.

YEAH.....no. 383's are fantastic motors and make great power. They rev much better than the small blocks and don't have to stoke to get there. Plus, if you want the biggest inch Big Blocks, you'll use a 400 block, so you'd have all the bits to bump it up. I dunno where you got the idea the 383 was a lackluster engine.

[Removed user as requested]

Go-fish

I only ever had 383ci Chargers and felt like it wasn't that crash hot in power sense. Could have been the weight factor to. I read many places about peoples experience back in the late 60s and 70s that owned mopars and chevies and said that in stock form the 396ci chevs were more comparable to the 440ci mopars than the 383ci ones. Going by the 305 is more like a 383, then it makes sense that the 396 was more like the 440 owners have explained.

DTMRacing

Stating the sheet metal is thinner on the mopars... I thought the 68 chargers i owned were meant to be a tank, when i in a way pushed my hand on the quarter or fender it felt flimsyish compare to the solid feel of other cars. I thought it was meant to feel more solid being a Dodge and thought it strange to have felt more flimsy. I honestly thought the car i had was full of reproduction parts that were not as good, solid as the original sheet metal. Guess what you said explains that now as i had no idea they were actually thinner.

[DTM Racing]

Go-fish

I only ever had 383ci Chargers and felt like it wasn't that crash hot in power sense. Could have been the weight factor to. I read many places about peoples experience back in the late 60s and 70s that owned mopars and chevies and said that in stock form the 396ci chevs were more comparable to the 440ci mopars than the 383ci ones. Going by the 305 is more like a 383, then it makes sense that the 396 was more like the 440 owners have explained.

DTMRacing

Stating the sheet metal is thinner on the mopars... I thought the 68 chargers i owned were meant to be a tank, when i in a way pushed my hand on the quarter or fender it felt flimsyish compare to the solid feel of other cars. I thought it was meant to feel more solid being a Dodge and thought it strange to have felt more flimsy. I honestly thought the car i had was full of reproduction parts that were not as good, solid as the original sheet metal. Guess what you said explains that now as i had no idea they were actually thinner.

I can't really understand what you are saying about the engines, however except for the first year it was offered in 66 in the Corvette, the 396 was pretty good for it's CID. The 383 magnum engine (4bbl/440 cam/906 heads) was rated at 335 hp where the 396 was rated at 375. Talk to anyone worth his salt who was at the track in 68...383 powered Road Runners were quite the terror, and the HEMI cars were unstoppable.

All that said, last 383 we built had the smallest roller cam Comp makes with Eddy heads out of the box and it made 399.6hp to the ground, uncorrected. That's pretty freaking stout for an engine you can get for $500.00 running and throw 2500.00 in parts at.

I'm sorry your Mopar experience was less than ideal G-Man. There are a lot of great cars for great people. Some folks don't enjoy hunting for parts and tinkering. They like to crack a catalog, whip out the card and have the parts in three days. They get play the "what color is your Camaro" game at the Chevy/Ford shows. However the guy that takes the time to figure out all the things that makes a Mopar run and run well, has laser straight lines, beautiful, reserved use of chrome, and a deep paint job will ALWAYS get the longest looks and the most pictures taken at ANY show compared to the half dozen brand X cars that show up.

[benno505]

agreed

[Removed user as requested]

The whole picture taking thing... I see a whole handful of Chargers, Cudas and Challengers at car shows in Sydney and I am yet to see one 1970 Chevelle. From what I have seen at shows, from what I have seen on the street driving... The 70 Chevelle is much more rare around here.

Camaros/Mustangs/Stringrays = the bulk of the entire show. Then you get a handful of Chargers/Cudas/Challengers, like, 2-4 chargers, 2 cudas, 2 challengers, then 1 Chevelle. So *shrugs*.

Looks wise, I like a muscle car to be just that. Chevelle is more of a hulk than any Mopar in it's chunky like design, which to me is exactly what a muscle car should be. However this is all personal preference as I know people that do not like the Chevelle for the very fact it does look chunky like that. Those people that do not like the Chevelle love the Chargers/Roadrunners because they have 'sharper' lines. They describe the Mopars to look more athletic built looking cars while the Chevelle is more like a bouncer at a club, just a big chunky hulk. So the very reason I love muscle cars (to be hulks) they do not.

Seems to me Mopar people drive there car because of someone else liking it. I mean, it always comes back to "But at car shows... yeah but at car shows... yeah but at car shows", like who cares? I never take my car to car shows to even worry about what someone else thinks. What I think matters as I'm the one driving it. And even if I did take it there, I know I would be the only one there with a Chevelle while there would be a bunch of Mopars. So who's rarer now? - Doesn't matter either way as that does not make up what a car is. This is all just personal preference "I like blue, blue is best, no I like green, green is better, nah your all wrong, Red wins, sorry to break it to you but it ain't bad if it ain't black so pack your little red girly car and leave" Hope you get the point.

The 70 Chevelle driving down the freeway will get just as much looks as any Mopar would. Driving a Chevelle to a street race where people turn up with skylines etc, will get just as much looks as any Mopar would with the difference to me being the Chevelle is still more 'hulk' like (even to Mopar people the Chevelle is more chunky in its design, hence they like/dont like it) on the street than a mopar would be in these situations and thus compare to all the cars on the road, the Chevelle is the one that looks like The Hulk, not the Mopars I had. So that is the one that fits me as it fits that look I was after in a muscle car.

Had Ford built it, I would get it. If Dodge or Plymouth built it, I would get it, if it was a Pontiac, I would get it. It happens to be a Chevrolet made car though. Point is I do not buy based on name but on appearance. It just happens to be that Chevrolet made the hulk like muscle car. So I now have a Chevy though I always owned Mopar.

I didn't have a bad experience with my QQ1 Blue 68 Charger. It was a good car. It just didn't have that hulk like presence like the chevelle I am after and hence my switch.

They are all good, they are all equally noticeable and stand out from the crowed equally on the street where you drive them because the point of reference/comparison are the modern cars.

So all that is left is the type of look you are after. I was after a Hulk. The Chevelle is the winner in that regard.

If you can help the OP build a Charger for same $$$ as a Chev or something else. By all means, get a Charger if that is the shape you want, rather than a shape someone 'else' (car shows) want.

[DCohoon]

Hey "mate" maybe in Australia mopars are more common but in AMERICA where they were made they are not as common which is unfortunate, why don't you ship yours back over pond for us we would love to have it back! Its fine to like what you do as I myself am a bowtie guy but dang man come off your all knowing high horse and please to god give your keyboard a break as you have written some novels here to explain your liking of "Hulk" looks; and id add I hope your taste in women over there is not skewed that way haha!! let this thread go on back to its original topic and for god sake stop comparing Australia to America because most people on here could give two ****s your car might be rarer over there. And last but not least "yeah but at car shows"---ill have to say car shows, events, cruise ins, etcc is what makes the car world/ hobby even more fun.

Any way sir go mopar and go with your gut, buy what will make you happy and continue living the MERICAN dream!! my vote--Charger or roadrunner, both would be cool but I haven't seen a roadrunner PT built yet so go for it!!

[benno505]

:) finally

[DTM Racing]

l but I haven't seen a roadrunner PT built yet so go for it!!

Well now you have...
100153

[benno505]

hotchkis RR, such a beast.

[mikedc]

I'm amazed how many people argue that higher production numbers point to a better item. Especially for car-guy purposes.

Look at the world lately. Toyota 4dr sedans with floor-happy gas pedals have far outsold Challengers, Mustangs, and Camaros.

[DCohoon]

Yea that's a good looking roadrunner!

[Removed user as requested]

Let me make it short so you do not get confused in relation to what Im saying as i initially was talking to the OP.

To my understanding based on his original question, to me seemed like he wanted to do a mopar as another car to build, like 'hey cool lets try this out' like pontiacs and chevreolets, not as something he 'really' wanted, but something interesting to try out.

My simple point was, if its just another cool thing to do but not a 'i love mopar, gotta have mopar' (thats the sentiments i got from original question) then save yourself the money as they cost $$$. Dont start on something to realise its out of the park in price to what you may have been expecting.

Now if you can build the charger for the same $ as anything else, then go for it as another thing to try out and within the price expected.

Thats all i ever meant from start.

And car shows are boring. Its like sitting in a room staring at pictures all day. Yawn. Cars are meant to look tough when they are "muscle" cars aka guy thing aka Hulk aka dont mess with it. Girls should look elegant the total opposite of the Hulk. So dont even mix the 2 ideas.

That roadrunner is nice. There was a member on here that had a roadrunner B-body with XV2 motorsports package front and back. I thought that was bill howels car, mght of been someone else. Was a couple years back. There was a thread on it here after one of XVs wheel axels snapped under that car during an auto-cross. Maybe someone remembers it.

[benno505]

mopars do not cost more than a chevy to build if they are both being built for the same race class.
i.e how can a company charge triple for the same item being applied to a different car. think about it.
maybe mopars are slightly more expensive if your building a numbers matching top of the line mopar, but this is not a numbers matching /factory car forum.
Alot of chevy components fit in mopar engines. i am running chevy 7.1 rods in mine, cause there cheap and plentiful and noone makes a mopar specific one, because they dont need to as a chevy one fits.
car shows are great, it is a chance to show your ride off and admire others, its part of being a car enthusiast.
all muscle cars look tough, some look sleeker than others, charger body line was built for nascar racing, charger daytona first car to reach 200mph, first car to be tested in wind tunnel.
in the 60's camaro and mustang owners did not like there cars being called muscle cars, they preferred pony cars. now everybody calls them muscle cars.

and to be clear in your first post to the OP, you told him not to buy a mopar and to get a chevy as mopars are too expensive.
do your research and stop being naive before you post, your only affecting yourself.

now can we please let this go it is getting boring, and it is not helping anyone

[Removed user as requested]

Benno, said only get one if its a 'have to' car due to expense otherewise why go through all that if its not even the car he actually 'has' to have?

As said already, if it will cost the same, then do it regardless of have to or not as the price is the same.

That's all. Just want the guy to make an informed decision. Better get it all out now while the money is still in his pocket. So all good.

And does anyone remember whos XV Roadrunner it was on here?

[72BBSwinger]

Bill Howell has an Xv 72 Charger that is badass. That is a nice car but he went open checkbook on it. Which fine but I can't help but wonder how it would run with some serious chassis tuning. I also don't think much weight was taken out of her either. Those cars have a great balance for there size just ask Richard Petty. I'm keeping my torsion bars and leaf springs just it retains its soul. But its gonna get a cage too.

[benno505]

XV rubbish IMO, that's why they shut up shop and have new owner

[mikedc]

XV sucked as a business. It's too bad because they initially did top-notch R&D on the cars though. Their findings upset conventional wisdom on improving handling performance in several places. The Mopar community will reap a lasting benefit from that stuff.

[High Plains Mopars]

I think go-fish summed it up pretty well. If you are restoring the body as a basis for a pro-touring ride or you are restoring to stock, there are a lot of unique parts that are going to cost more than the average Camaro to source. Unique grills and trim, one year only parts and low volume all conspire to make these expensive parts. Even if you step into stock like performance, a set of torsion bars will cost more than a set of coil springs. Reproduction parts are are going to be higher priced because of volume. Since most pro-touring builds start as bolt on systems to stock based points, it is going to cost more to build a Mopar. Simple economics mean there is going to be added expense of building a Mopar. For some of us, this is a necessary evil we deal with because of our passion for the cars. While it does suck, I take solace in the fact that at least Dodge and Plymouth parts are easier to find than AMC and Studebaker parts.

The flip side of this is if you are totally gutting a car and starting from scratch with a competition based build or all out, nothing is left stock pro tourer, then the costs are not going to be radically different. Coil overs cost the same, R&P cost the same, link systems cost the same, T-56 cost the same, it all becomes relative at a point. Now, if you are looking for bolt in, pre-packages systems like Magnumforce or Alterkation or Control Freaks, then yes, it is going to cost more to cover R&D and production costs that are amortized against fewer projected sales than what a DSE system might cost. Even a Schwartz chassis that has identical components in their Mopar system as a Chevy system will cost more for the same reasons.

There also is the fact that like Chevy and Ford, there are Mopar models that people WANT more than others. This also drives up prices. '69 Chargers and Road Runners, 70-71 Cuda and Challengers are all at the pinnacle of Mopar pricing. The last time I check Ebay, a clean restored '69 Camaro was averaging $20-25k, which is right around the price a nice restored Charger is going for. Now, if you insist you Charger be an RT or SE or must have a 440 or comes with a 6 pak then you are going to pay premium prices for them. As Nothingface5384 pointed out, there are Mopar models that have more budget friendly prices such as 72-76 A bodies and 66-67 B bodies. I'd also include 76-80 F bodies and 73-79 B bodies and almost any pre 67 A body in that list. Heck, I've had people GIVE me Mopar F bodies just to get them out of their yards. As a RWD, V8 capable Mopar, I've built a few of these that were faster than more traditional Mopars for a quarter of the price. But, I'm pretty sure a Falcon owner could say they same against, say, a '67 Mustang Fastback.

You make our choice, you pay your money, you have your fun.

[benno505]

well said Tony, thanks for the teaching lesson every time you type

[vdaviemusclecars]

Well i was the original poster of this thread. I did not end up getting a Mopar. The fact was after searching a lot they are more expensive for what you get compated to Chevy, Ford ect.. he other thing is they are big cars without a lot of options to make them handle like say a Camaro ect.. Also i found the build quality to be shall we say..lacking a bit. I have had a 70 b5 blue T/A 4 speed before and i was always worried something was going to fall off! These are just MY opinions so take them for what they are worth. I ended up getting a 71 SS Camaro that the Ring Brothers had painted and done some other mods to the car, ie, 4 link ect.. I spent 40k. Kinda strange because i already have a full blown Pro-Touring 71 RS z28..but hey, you can never have to many! So thanks for all the advice and again, these are just my thoughts and what i found out there when i was looking.

Vince

[Removed user as requested]

You already had a 71 camaro and you bought a 71...

I do not see the point to that.

Gotta say, Since THAT was the option, would have gotten the 68 charger.

[vdaviemusclecars]

To each there own.

Vince

[MrQuick]

Good show vince....I'll build you a 71 Cuda later when you wanna get your toes wet. :)


Did you buy that pretty silver one?

[mikedc]

Well i was the original poster of this thread. I did not end up getting a Mopar. The fact was after searching a lot they are more expensive for what you get compated to Chevy, Ford ect.. he other thing is they are big cars without a lot of options to make them handle like say a Camaro ect.. Also i found the build quality to be shall we say..lacking a bit. I have had a 70 b5 blue T/A 4 speed before and i was always worried something was going to fall off! These are just MY opinions so take them for what they are worth. I ended up getting a 71 SS Camaro that the Ring Brothers had painted and done some other mods to the car, ie, 4 link ect.. I spent 40k. Kinda strange because i already have a full blown Pro-Touring 71 RS z28..but hey, you can never have to many! So thanks for all the advice and again, these are just my thoughts and what i found out there when i was looking.


FWIW the early 1970s E-bodies have always been notoriously shoddy cars. They were known for it even compared to other contemporary Mopars. The whole E-body program was a rushed effort to grab hold of some of the ponycar market before it was gone.


Whatever. Glad you found something you are happy with regardless of the brand.

[garyfish340]

I had to reply to this quote, but not to criticize, but just make a counter point. You have a charger, and those cars are highly collectible, so right off you're into the bank account, same as if you were building from a GTO judge. Most of the cosmetic junk on my car, are shared with a host of valiant, and darts. There were over 3 million A Bodies built, so the parts are out there. ( Full duster price with /6 - $6,700. Roll tubing is roll tubing, the big 3 haven't put there stamp on pipe. I got the rear suspension from Reilly Motorsports, everything included, even brake lines, and viking shocks, for $1800, The from k member is $575. A Hellwig sway bar up front. Pypes exhaust $275, Jegs welded deep tone mufflers $35.00. The srt8 jeep engine $3500. Everything else was recycled from the yellow barracuda. Even the sum of cage tubing, RMS upper control arms, transmission. A guy at the local circle track " Big Diamond " refreshed the trans for under $400. We also figuire out that some AW trans's, Ford's AOD, Chrysler's A518 are adaptable, and even GM's 700r4, and all junk yard accessible.. The wheels are 2003 Mach 1. A brake upgrade in the future calls for mustang cobra calipers. I've done somebody work, ( hood repaint, and scoop ) and all the welding. ( arch the big stuff, and mig the small. ) I haven't even reach near 20-25k. I get your point, but you don't have to build a original numbers matching 1971 hemi cuda convertible PT. Some guys will be more than happy to tackle a Ford Maverick, Fairmount, or a Pontiac Ventura, or even a AMC hornet. Most of what came from the factory is going in the dumpster anyway. I just saw a late 90's Pontiac Grand Am Dash adapted to a dodge dart, it looked modern, and really slick. EVERYBODY HAS THEIR OWN BUILD PLAN, MAYBE YOUR IDEA'S ARE JUST A BIT MORE LOFTY. Dude, I don't even own a garage, last winter I was working on this when it was 25 degrees. I'M NOT AS WEALTHY AS MOST OF THE FOLKS HERE. it can be done.
I had 2, 68 Chargers. They can be gotten around the 20-25k mark without body issues. Mine was original sheet metal, rust free. Ran a 383ci motor but it was a clean, rust free car. It cost me 19,000 US 2 years ago. Prices haven't really changed since.

Now I have a 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle and am blown away by how 'cheap' stuff can be gotten and the shear amount of things to choose from. Now I wonder why i wasted money on a Charger that everything costs x2 that of anything else, and for what? For the fact nobody owns them so things cost heaps?

If you already have a pro-touring car, Personally I would stay clear from the Mopars, just ain't worth it in the end. If you are rich, then do what you like.

This blue Charger cost me 19k US

[benno505]

Thanks, thats what i dont get everyone thinks ohhh mopar too expensive, they obviously have done no research. same priced as chebbie or phord, Until you start trying to return to stock and numbers matching etc. I will admit there is not the amount of aftermarket parts available, but thats not a bad thing, just means there is a select few that are dedicated and work best. I cant comment on the quality of some mopars, any i have seen have been top notch

[vdaviemusclecars]

MrQuick. Yes, i did get the silver 71..pretty nice car. Going to change a few things in the interior but that's about it.

Vince

[vdaviemusclecars]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]101756[/ATTACH

Cant seem to get the pic the correct way. But you get the idea.

Vince

[vdaviemusclecars]

101766


Better pic of them.

Vince

[cc-rider]

I would look up Derek Carlson from the Hot Rod Shop in Rancho Cordova, Ca (Sacramento). They are Mopar guys and do fantastic work. Here is a pic of a Hemi Cuda they did for a customer in the Bay Area. Plently of Pro Touring flavor on this build.

90195

Digging up an old thread here. But Wow. That is an awesome 'cuda. Exactly what I want. Great car.