67 Camaro build (C5 suspension and transaxle

[maro67]

So its about a decade later and I am finally underway on my 1st gen build. A quick background. I bought this car back in 2003 when I was in college. I had just sold a 69 Pontiac LeMans and had "big" plans to build a pro-touring car when I was finished school. Its funny how much plans change. I found an old thread I started back in 2007, https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/26769-67-Camaro-project?highlight=.


Like I said a decade later and I'm finally underway with the project. I quess you could call this more than a change of plans, https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/79848-C4-suspension-in-1st-gen-camaro-(geometry-question)?highlight=.

So here are some pics to show progress and current status:

Spent quite a few hours with wire brush attachments on an angle grinder removing years of gunk! After the wire brush treatment, moved onto several rounds of chemical stripping. This car had three paint jobs from what I could tell, original maroon (based on vin), blue and the "fugly" black mess when I bought it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG0578_zpsce58a056-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG0578_zpsce58a056.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG0577_zpsefdbf79a-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG0577_zpsefdbf79a.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG0575_zps242065bf-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG0575_zps242065bf.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG0573_zps4633d675-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG0573_zps4633d675.jpg.html)

[maro67]

Front and rear windshield channels need to be replaced
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG0589_zps3e553931-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG0589_zps3e553931.jpg.html)

Deck filler and package tray are toast
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG0588_zpsda892805-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG0588_zpsda892805.jpg.html)

Nice previous repair work on the driver side quarter / door jam
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG0586_zps8ffe4bea-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG0586_zps8ffe4bea.jpg.html)

My personal favorite. Both rear wheel openings (quarter panel and outer wheel house) were cut then patched with fiberglass and bondo to make room for an A-body 12 bolt housing with 10.5" slicks which stuck out past the openings about an inch on either side. I guess this was easier than narrowing the rear and or getting wheels with the correct backspacing.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG0583_zpse97195a9-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG0583_zpse97195a9.jpg.html)

[maro67]

I previously had the car at my parents house as I was living in a condo for past 6 years. Its about time I got a garage of my own. The car mas moved to a new home and back to work.

Fits nicely
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG0996_zpsfa6564a6-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG0996_zpsfa6564a6.jpg.html)

Some in process soda blasting pics
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG1009_zpsbb207a2b-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1009_zpsbb207a2b.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG1021_zps49d517e4-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1021_zps49d517e4.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG1023_zpsa253a573-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1023_zpsa253a573.jpg.html)

Nice clean and straight rockers on this car. Finally something good!!!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG1024_zpsc520609e-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1024_zpsc520609e.jpg.html)

[maro67]

So its time to start some sheet metal work. The floor and firewall are surprisingly solid as are the rockers. Here is a list of the work that needs to be done:

Partial trunk floor
DSE mini tubs
outer wheel housings
quarter panels (lh and rh)
trunk latch support brackets
deck filler panel
package tray
front and rear windshield channels
trunk weatherstrip channels
various small spot repairs
Hopefully this list doesn't get too out of control

My plan of attack is to start on the rear of the car while it is still on the rotisserie. First order of business trunk floor. I'm doing a partial because the close outs and rear frame rails are in good shape and seem to be solid. I figured this would be less work and certainly save some bucks on replacement parts.

I want to get the trunk floor in place then go to work on the mini tubs. I am thinking it would be best to leave the outer wheel houses in place to locate the mini tubs. Once I get the mini tubs in place I will take the car off the rotisserie and block it up on jacks stands (placing the jack stands where the body mounts to the factory subframe and leaf springs).

While the car is on stands I will start work on the quarter panels. I am going to set the doors to the rockers and door jam area on the existing quarters (which I am hoping are original based on the lead at the interface with the roof skin). I figure this will give me a good foundation for installing the quarters. While the quarters are off I will place the outer wheel housing then finally finish weld everything.

Once I rough cut the trunk floor out I realized it gave me access to many of the hard to reach spots involved in installing the mini tubs.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG1066_zpsef8ee470-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1066_zpsef8ee470.jpg.html)

So I decided the car seems to be stabilized pretty well on the rotisserie and since I can stand in the hole in the trunk at this point I might as well at least rough cut the inner wheel housings out at this point. (Sorry for the poor picture quality all I had on me was my phone today).
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG1073_zpsa06d739b-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1073_zpsa06d739b.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG1067_zpsf6d9bb61-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1067_zpsf6d9bb61.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG1070_zps99ce42cf-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1070_zps99ce42cf.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/IMAG1076_zps27cd5961-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1076_zps27cd5961.jpg.html)

[maro67]

While working on cutting out the inner wheel housings I noticed that flanges where the inner and outer wheel houses meet (at the top of the tubs) pretty difficult to get to in certain spots. Also, I am really having trouble finding the spot welds along this flange. On the driver side it seems like there is a ridiculous amount of very small spot welds along the flange spaced very close together. On the passenger side I am having trouble finding them at all. This car had been worked on and painted several times over the years so who knows what could have been done hear.

Does anyone have any tips for separating the inner and outer wheel housings along this flange? It almost seems like some people are trimming the inner as close to the flange as they can get it and installing the new inner tubs butted up against it. Is this true?

Not really sure what I am going to do here just yet. I am contemplating on installing both inner and outer housings while the car is on the rotisserie with the existing quarter panels in place. Though the quarters are pretty jacked up along the wheel opening edge so this mat not be the best course of action.

I am certainly open to suggestion if anyone has any good input or advice.

[alex111]

its not so difficult......

[pollusky]

Hi there , nice project, I'm currently doing the same for my 67 camaro , what i did is that i cut most of the inner tube leaving only the top and bottom flange to make space , then on the flange i could not find the spot welds neither, what i end un doing is i drill holes an inch apart all the way then start peeling off the metal if it was stuck there was a spot weld so i drill in there , there is a lot of tiny ones but not all hold on when you pull the inner flange ,

[pollusky]

What im currently stuck inn right now is that after you remove the inner tub and you are ready to cut the floor and trunk pan on the floor pan side you cut the floor or you bend it in a 90 degree angle to weld the spot weld into that and if the tub is welded around the inside all around ?? Seems like the video and instructions are very vague on that,thanks

[maro67]

To me it seems like the instructions tell you to pot weld it to the flange then seam seal it. That's how my oem inners were installed.

Good point on just drilling holes about an inch apart along the flange and start removing the material. I will most likely wind up going this route myself.

[pollusky]

I have recently read threads and found that you can also leave the flange. From the inner tub in there just trim flat with the outer one and weld the other one to a nice clean surface. Let me see if i found a link that some guy sendme

[pollusky]

vb:showthread/t=46900

[68400BIRD]

Can't help with the inner tubs. But, when you get to welding up the window channels make sure you have your trim handy. Line your trim up before welding to make sure you have the right gaps and it's not crooked. That was one of my mistakes.

[pollusky]

Look for this thread since i cant copy paste the link
Is named

The novice's guide to mini-tubbing a 68-69 camaro

Hope it helps And you think you can post a
Picture when you test fit your driver side mini tub ? Thanks

[zzfranczz]

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/46900-The-Novice-s-guide-to-mini-tubbing-a-68-69-Camaro

I happen to have it book marked. Here you go...

[maro67]

First off thanks for providing the link to thea other thread. Tons of good info there! I made some progress later in the week. I removed all the flange material from the original outers. I'm taking a break from the car this weekend. I'll be back on it next week. I'll post some progress pics later in the week.

[maro67]

I have made some progress since my last post. I went ahead and removed the flanges from the inner wheel housings. Man there was a ton of small spot welds all along there. That was not fun. At this point I have trimmed and removed all of the floor pan material. I notched the passenger side frame rail and did an initial test fit of the passenger side tub. Here are some pics.

Inner wheel housing flanges removed
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/IMG2014013000021_zps4d6a43e0-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140130-00021_zps4d6a43e0.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/IMG2014013000030_zps437bf90b-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140130-00030_zps437bf90b.jpg.html)

Passenger side frame rail notched
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/IMG2014020500054_zpscf6bc233-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140205-00054_zpscf6bc233.jpg.html)

Here is a shot of the rocker panel area. I felt the DSE instructions and video dont really do a good job of describing what needs to be done here to make the tubs fit. I decided to fold some flanges that will mate to the forward face of the and see it fit before I just started cutting away material to make the tubs fit. So far so good. Definitely still needs to be cleaned up a bit though
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/IMG2014020500057_zpsbabbe2f3-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140205-00057_zpsbabbe2f3.jpg.html)

The first test fit. Not to bad.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/IMG2014020500047_zps0483c38c-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140205-00047_zps0483c38c.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/IMG2014020500053_zps6c91d8c9-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140205-00053_zps6c91d8c9.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/IMG2014020500051_zps624f1776-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140205-00051_zps624f1776.jpg.html)

[maro67]

After the first test fit of the passenger side tub there are several things that need to be addressed. A few minor interference locations, nothing a little bit of clearance cutting wont take care of. The biggest obstacle at this point is going to be fabricating the close out panels for the shock mount area. The previous owner had install a roll cage and chose a very unfavorable mounting location for the frame rail braces.

I never intended on keeping this cage in the car so I will start by removing the frame rail braces. It looks like I will have some additional fab work to do in fixing some of this ugliness. While I am in there I am going to do some rust treatment and prevention before I close it up. It looks like there is really only minor surface rust so it shouldn't be too bad to deal with. I have some Eastwood products that I plan to use on the under side of the car in a few spots (rust converter and rust encapsulator).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/IMG2014020500063_zpsc28ec53c-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140205-00063_zpsc28ec53c.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/IMG2014020500062_zpsb0605742-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140205-00062_zpsb0605742.jpg.html)

[maro67]

Well after almost 6 months and about a dozen house projects later I finally got back to working on the car (than god). Made some progress on the passenger side wheel tub close out panels.

Cut out a section of the rollcage support member and cleaned up the existing sheet metal a bit
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/IMG2014020600094_zpsf421b4af-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140206-00094_zpsf421b4af.jpg.html)

So a while back I bought a bunch of body panels from a guy locally on craigslist. Most were actually new repro pieces he had sitting around (score). While I was staring at the hole I just created and thinking of ways to close it up I decided to make use of some of the patch panels that I acquired.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/IMG2014020600074_zps1f7ed878-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140206-00074_zps1f7ed878.jpg.html)

I am going to take a different approach than the DSE recommend close panels. I am going to cannibalize the shock tower reinforcement and the trunk floor patch panel.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/IMG2014020600078_zps0af0b32a-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140206-00078_zps0af0b32a.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/IMG2014020600075_zps54c9def8-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMG-20140206-00075_zps54c9def8.jpg.html)

Using the shock tower reinforcement piece to add some support to the close out panels. Unfortunately I had to use flux core wire for this piece because my Lincoln Electric mig just didnt have enough juice to handle the .125" metal.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/IMAG1246_zps3a9f6fdd-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1246_zps3a9f6fdd.jpg.html)

Tim to grind down some spot welds
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/IMAG1248_zps3a7725de-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1248_zps3a7725de.jpg.html)

[maro67]

Here's a few shots of the shock tower area closed up.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/IMAG1258_zpsc6ca68f3-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1258_zpsc6ca68f3.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/IMAG1259_zps48c39fdc-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1259_zps48c39fdc.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/IMAG1261_zps2c80f979-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1261_zps2c80f979.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/IMAG1264_zps1040aa81-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1264_zps1040aa81.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/IMAG1266_zpscef83565-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1266_zpscef83565.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/IMAG1269_zps71abc4cc-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/IMAG1269_zps71abc4cc.jpg.html)

Still need to button up a few spots and finish grinding and add some seem sealer.

[BonzoHansen]

Nice project. Where in nj are you?

[maro67]

Nice project. Where in nj are you?

I'm down in North Wildwood

[maro67]

A little more progress this week. Getting close to installing the passenger side tub:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/20140906_193907_zps773d55fb-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/20140906_193907_zps773d55fb.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/20140906_193859_zps1033e664-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/20140906_193859_zps1033e664.jpg.html)

[maro67]

So I finished up the passenger side frame rail notch and floor pan close outs. I must say that I am not very happy with the way everything turned out. The more I get into it the more I do not like the way you notch the factory frame rail and piece everything back together with close out panels. Also I had originally thought I was going to get by with a trunk floor center section. Again, after getting into it I have decided that I really need to do a full trunk floor pan. There is just too much rust and the overall condition of the remaining pieces of the original trunk floor are not in good enough condition to try to salvage.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/20141130_105001_zps54c8d344-1.jpg (http://s163.photobucket.com/user/leemans69/media/camaro%20under%20construction/20141130_105001_zps54c8d344.jpg.html)

That all being said, I am looking into replacing the factory frame rails with aftermarket formed frame rails. So far I have seen products from Competition Engineering, S&W Race Cars and Auto Weld. Does anyone have any experience with any of these frame rails? I am particularly interested in seeing how you tied them into the existing unibody structure at the forward end. Did you fabricate a cross member as is typical in pro street style back halfed cars? Or did you just weld them into the existing unibody structure the same way the factory rails do? If anyone could post up some pictures I would really appreciate it.

[maro67]

Wow Dec 2014, it's amazing how life can get in the way of a good car project. So the maro is still around and I have finally found the time to get back into it. 4.5 years later that is. Anyway picking up where I left off, I really was not impressed at my 1st attempt on the mini tub install. So I decided to do it right this time. First thing I did was fabricate a chassis jig / frame table using some 2 x 3 x .125" tube and set it on a set of jack stands I bought from Summit. They are used for working on dirt modified race cars. The smaller aluminum stands are load leveling stands used for trailers. Together they did the trick. I was very amazed at how level everything turned out. Now I had a good foundation to start working from.168360168361

[maro67]

As you can see in the previous post, I hung the front clip and doors. I aligned everything the best I could to the rocker panels as they were one of the most straight and solid parts of the car. I really only best fit everything as the doors are in rough shape.

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[maro67]

Next up, weld in some bracing and start cutting all the old rusted pieces out.
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[maro67]

Well I really went for it. Here you can see just how much of the car was removed, pretty much the entire back end and roof skin. Fortunately the under roof structure was in good shape with just some surface rust.

168366

I used a product I for from Eastwood called FastEtch to prep the metal prior to primer and paint. I really like the FastEtch stuff. It works just as they advertise.

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[maro67]

As I mentioned I was not happy with the previous attempt at the mini tub install. Also, I just cant get past notching sheet metal frame rails, not to mention once I got everything taken apart the original rear rails had a good amount of "orange peel" surface rust on them which significantly weakens the material. So I decided to leave the rear rails in place to use as a reference for setting a new full trunk floor pan. I wont bore you with all of the pics of notching and patching the floor for the mini tubs as there are plenty of threads on that process already. Nonetheless here is a quick shot of the 2nd attempt. Much better this time around.

168369

[maro67]

Once I had the trunk floor welded in I cut the old frame rails out. Here's a shot with the mini tubs and outer wells welded in with a bit of epoxy primer. It is worth noting that prior to welding anything in place, I completely mocked up and test fist all of the new panels including quarters, rear tail panel, deck filler, etc. I must have put together and taken this thing apart at least half a dozen times to get to this point. Once I get everything mocked up where I want it I drill a few holes in the panels that I am welding in place and use clecos to hold them in place.

168370168371

[maro67]

Well that's all I have time for right now. More updates coming soon. It feels great to be back at it making progress!!!

[KB Camaro]

subscribed!

[WideOpenThrottle]

subscribed!

Ditto! Keep the posts and pics coming. I may be in your shoes with my own project... unfortunately.

~Max

[shelteredchevelle]

picture works

[maro67]

So I was having some trouble with my picture hosting service and it looks like it is worked out.

I've made some good progress over the past month or so. The quarters panels are just about finished. Here is a picture of one of the many test fits I did with all of the exterior sheet metal panels including the roof skin. All in all, most everything fit pretty well with just some trimming and bending of the mating flanges.168374

[maro67]

Here is the fit on the A pillar.
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[maro67]

Here you can see things are starting to come together.

168375

[maro67]

Gitten dem gaps right before welding!168376

[maro67]

Here are a couple pics of the quarter panel install. For the most part they fit really well until I got to fitting the rear tail panel (we'll get to that in a little bit).

[maro67]

Its kind of tough to tell but the fit between the new quarter panels and the door jamb areas was really good. I did have to do some tweaking and a little hammer and dolly work but all in all it wasnt too bad. Ive heard alot of people say they had issues with the door jamb / striker plate. It sounds like these differ from car to car and can place the quarter too far foward or aft. I didnt really mess with this area too much because the wheel well openings lined up pretty well as did the fit between the quarter and the drip rail near the rear quarter glass opening. Its good to see that the 267 times I test fit everything wasnt for nothing.168384

[maro67]

I did spend a good amount of time bending and trimming the lower flanges on the new quarters to get the gap at the rockers nice and tight. The passenger side needed some hammer and dolly work because there was a small dent of sorts near the wheel well opening. Ill still probably have to pull some more out with the stud welder and slide hammer now that it is all welded in place but I was mainly focusing on getting a good gap at this stage. The other thing I did was weld the lower flange from inside the car since the quarter glass is out. Ive heard people say they use panel adhesive for this area but I wasnt to keen on that.

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[maro67]

Now that the quarters are welded in place just about at every interface (I didn't weld the flange at the drip rail where it ties into the roof skin just yet. Im planning on doing that after the roof skin to quarter panel joint is spot welded.). It was time to move to the rear valence tail panel.

The lower interface between the trunk floor flange and the outer flanges fit up pretty well. Here some shot of the drivers side.

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[maro67]

Ditto! Keep the posts and pics coming. I may be in your shoes with my own project... unfortunately.

~Max

Hey man, hope you don't wind up getting stuck with all the delays that I have. It is taking way way way longer than expected. But what can I say, I am determined. Best of luck to you with your project!

[WideOpenThrottle]

Hey man, hope you don't wind up getting stuck with all the delays that I have. It is taking way way way longer than expected. But what can I say, I am determined. Best of luck to you with your project!

Thanks. We shall see. As of now I know the floors need to be replaced from front to back (including the trunk). Not because they are rusted, but because the repairs have been so horrendous over the years. The rear valence is installed wrong and the rear quarters (although new) have been formed to accommodate the incorrectly installed rear valence. Lastly, I see that the the contours around the window glass in the back are wrong and the molding will never fit right... I am not sure what is wrong there, but I am sure one day it will be clear.

Like you I am a determined individual... I have a house project taking up my time right now, but as soon as this is over, full-bore on the Camaro.

~Max

PS - Very nice progress. I like how your getting it done right no matter how long the path.

[maro67]

So the fit between the quarters and the rear valance / tail panel is where I finally had to start doing some actual sheet metal fab. After doing some research it seems like this is a known problem area.

I wound up having to cut a small piece from the rear corner area where the trunk weather strip channel area (where the trunk lid bump stops go) as the bends and channel on the quarter didn't line up with the mating surfaces on the tail panel. I had to move the pieces about a 1/2 inch toward the back of the car. I also had to stretch in the forward aft direction and shrink it in the up and down direction. I did so by cutting and splicing then welding it back together.

Here's the driver side.168508

[maro67]

Here they are welded in and ground down. I still have some final cleanup to do. But for now I have another issue to fix on the passenger side.168512168513

[maro67]

So the last part was'nt to bad once I figured out where to make the cuts. However, the passenger side quarter panel did not line well at all with the tail panel near the tail light opening. It was as if the quarter had a bulge in it making the area where it wraps around at the corner near to the bumper to have a crown in it and stick out past the tail panel. There is also a pretty significant sized gap between the two panels.168514168515

[maro67]

First thing I did was address the crown / point on the quarter panel. I decided to cut 2 relief cuts, essentially two really narrow pie cuts. This allowed me to spread the "tab" section that was left in the middle open. This got rid of the "bulge" and simultaneously the step mismatch between the two panels. I just had to keep trimming / filing back the relief cuts until the "tab" sat where I wanted it. I forgot to take any pictures before I spot welded it back up.168519168520

Well that its for now. Its beer thirty at the moment!

[maro67]

Well its been a little while. Things got super busy at the end of the year and with the holidays and all. I have been making progress at least. I finished up working the quarter panel to / rear valance interface. All in all it came out pretty good. I ground down the welds and it looks like it is going to work. The quarter is now flush with the valance.

I wound up being able to close the gap a by bending the flanges together more. There is a spot that even with the flanges mated together I had to run a weld bead as the gap between the panels was not consistent. Its kind of tough to tell from the pictures but basically I built up the joint with the weld material that will have to be ground down (I need to pick up a set of grinding burs to get in there and massage it a bit).

It will need some body filler to really detail the seem when all is said and done. The whole thing will be covered by the rear bumper so I am not too worried about it. The main thing is that the gap between the quarter panel and rear valance about the bumper is where it needs to be.171618171619171620

[maro67]

After spending so much time working on the quarter panels and rear valance I had to get away from the back of the vehicle for a bit. I decided to move my attention to the passenger side A pillar. The passenger side was rough. There were some spots on the upper area of the pillar close to the roof skin that were rusted through. I decided to cut it out and weld in a patch panel that I got from Belden Speed and Engineering. The filler panel worked out really well. You have to do a good amount of trimming to get it to fit your exact application depending especially depending on how much you cut out. Either way I'm happy with how it turned out. Here are some before and after pics.

171621171622

171623

[maro67]

Here it is with the welds ground and some rattle can primer.

171624

171625

[maro67]

Back to the rear of the car. Next up is to address the trunk weather strip gutter and the deck filler panel. I mocked up the trunk, deck filler and rear windshield a couple more times to make sure I get it all lined up before I started welding. While I was able to get all the gaps lined up nice, there were two things I noticed that needed to be fixed.

First the groove / gutter for the weather stripping on the read valance was too tall. It interfered with the trunk lid and caused it to sit up too high in the back. Also, it was too deep for the weather stripping to sit in properly. The second thing I noticed was that the new package tray panel I had installed was too short in the weather stripping gutter. When I laid the deck filler panel in place the gap to install the weather stripping was too small. Also from inside the trunk I could see that the gutter on the package tray did not land on the correct location on the trunk lid. Basically it would place the weather stripping off the sealing surface.

First I addressed the rear valance. I cut the flange off, removed from material and welded it back on. Its a little tough to see in this picture but this shows the flange clamped in place ready for tack welds after I had trimmed some material off.

171626

Here's one with a few tack welds and the side gutters clamped in place.

171627

And here you can see that the weather stripping sits in the gutter correctly. This also fixed the interference condition with the trunk lid and allowed it to seat properly and be flush with the quarter panels.

171628

[maro67]

Next, before I could install the deck filler panel I had to modify the package tray to relocate the weather stripping gutter about 1/4 to 3/8in further aft toward the back of the car. Luckily, the trunk gutter kit I bought had both the side pieces and the upper. I cut the gutter off of the package tray panel and welded in the new gutter piece. I made sure to go inside the trunk with the trunk lid in place and line everything up so that the weather stripping would now land on the correct sealing surface on the trunk when it is closed.

I didn't really get any pictures of the gutter piece mocked up and clamped in place. This picture gives you and idea of about how far back I shifted the gutter. For reference the 3 holes in the package tray panel were originally round. When I had lined everything up they were "snow manned" or looked like "8's" so I decided to trim them out to be oval shaped. You will never see it unless your lying down in the trunk once the deck filler is installed but it was bugging me.

171629

[maro67]

Here's how she sits now with the deck filler installed. Next up will be to weld the side gutter pieces I also bought a new pair of the quarter panel / trunk filler reinforcements. I'll show some pictures of how I locate and install them. I'm planning to spend some time on it this week. Hoping to get this all wrapped up and install the trunk hinges as they tie into the inner wheel wells and add some strength to the rear structure of the car.

171630

[maro67]

I really can't wait to finish up the sheet metal fab on the back of the car. Once this is complete, I will be moving onto mocking up the front sub frame and C4 suspension. Here is a teaser. I am going to be using a set of staggered C5 Z06 replica wheels (17 x 9 fronts and 18 x 10.5 rear). My goal is to run 275's up front and 295's out back.171631

[lUWI67]

Really enjoying your build, particularly the sheet metal work. I know it's hard to remember to take pics when your on a roll so you are doing an awesome job. I'm learning a lot about what my 67 looks like underneath the outer panels. Thanks.

Do you remember what brand package tray you used?

[maro67]

Really enjoying your build, particularly the sheet metal work. I know it's hard to remember to take pics when your on a roll so you are doing an awesome job. I'm learning a lot about what my 67 looks like underneath the outer panels. Thanks.

Do you remember what brand package tray you used?

Hey man, thanks for the encouraging words. Not sure off hand what brand the package tray was. There may still be a sticker on the underside. I'll check next time I'm working on it.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to clime back into the trunk yet again, literally. Over this past weekend I wrapped up the weather stripping gutter side pieces and got the trunk hinges welded in place. I had located the trunk deck lid best fitting the gaps on all sides. Then I taped it in place. I made sure to use allot of tape so it wouldn't shift on me. Then I climbed into the trunk and located the hinges.

To locate the hinges, first thing I did was bolt the arms to the trunk. I did my best to center them. Then with the arms bolted to the deck lid, I clamped the upper halves to the deck filler panel flanges where they spot weld. It all seemed to be working out. I got everything tacked in place. Then I got out of the car and went to open the trunk.

Long story short, either I was off when I placed the drivers side hinge or it moved on me. The driver side hinge is located about .25" too far forward and the arm rubs the trunk gutter in 2 places when I open and close the trunk. It also isn't allowing the deck lid to sit properly when I close the trunk.

I'm gonna be out of town this weekend but I'll post up some pics when I get back to it.

[maro67]

Really enjoying your build, particularly the sheet metal work. I know it's hard to remember to take pics when your on a roll so you are doing an awesome job. I'm learning a lot about what my 67 looks like underneath the outer panels. Thanks.

Do you remember what brand package tray you used?

It looks like it was a Goodmark (p/n: 4020-712-67).

[maro67]

Update time.

Fortunately I had only tack welded the trunk hinges in place so it wasn't too difficult removing the driver side hinge to relocate it. This time around I taped the trunk weather stripping in place when I located the deck lid. It seemed to help locate it and hold it in place. No more rubbing and it opens and closes as it should.

I didn't get any pictures of of the actual hinges installed, but here are a few of the trunk deck lid installed. All things considered it line up pretty well. There is a bit of a crown in the trunk lid. From what I gather this is a pretty common with the after market deck lids. Its kind of tough to tell but you can see how the corners kind of "dive in" a bit at the forward end of the lid. It's also a bit high in the center on the forward edge. I'm going to wait until the car is on the frame and suspension as a roller to do anything about it. My plan is to get the car back to being a roller and then gap it.172899

[maro67]

At this point I am just about done will all of the sheet metal work for the time being. There are a few minor items that need to be buttoned up but I am going to finish everything up once the body is on the suspension and wheels and back on the ground. I want to have it back as a roller and under its own weight to gap all the panels. Honestly I kind of need a break from the sheet metal fab for a little bit too.

Next up is to start mocking up the frame and suspension. I am going to do the front end first. I am using suspension and steering from a C4 Corvette. I have the front subframe / k-member and the complete suspension with steering rack from a 88-96 vette. The nice thing about this setup is that the stock track width of the C4 fits the front fenders of the 67 Camaro really good with no modifications and also allows the use of oem size / replica wheels. I really like the idea of being able to use oem components. It goes a long way in keeping the cost down and making things easily serviceable.

Will this be the best setup out there, no. There are better systems available in the aftermarket these days for sure. I really like the stuff that Speedway Motors has come out with in the past few years with their G-Comp product line. But at the end of the day the $$ start adding up big time when you go full aftermarket. Plus I really want to do the fab work myself. I am all in for a "Hotrod" style build, using parts from multiple different vehicles and platforms and putting them together to make something that is unique and works.

The car will be 80 - 90% street driven. I will most likely make a track day once or twice year. I happen to live fairly close to New Jersey Motorsports park and hope do get some HPDE days in every once in a while. That all being said, It is gonna be more street car than track car and even when on the track it will be more spirited driving than going all out.

[maro67]

First off, front frame. I ditched the stock front frame years ago when I did the initial tear down of the car. It was one of the things I was able to sell and recoup some of the cost. I had bought the car for $2k. It had a lot of old drag race parts on it. When all was said and done, after everything I had sold, I almost broke even on the price of the car.

I considered quite a few different options for front frame rails (e.g. miter cut and welding rectangle tube like the hot rodders, have a chassis shop mandrel bend square tube rails to my specs, etc.). I wound up coming across a set of universal frame rails on ebay that I decided to take a chance on. I purchased a set of mandrel bent 2 x 3 tube mild steel frame rails from a place called Johnny Law motors. They are intended for 1st gen F-bodys and Novas. They have mounting tabs for the body mounts and the radiator core support already welded on. I got them for $280 shipped. I figured at that price what the hell. I might as well role the dice. FYI, they are available on ebay right now for $260.

I must say I am pleased with the product that I received, especially for the price. While these bolt up to the body, keep in mind they are by no means a "bolt on" application. These are merely just the front frame rails and will require fab to make them work. They are advertised as 10 gauge material thickness. I measured the wall thickness at the rear most "cut" end, where I could get to it with a pair of calipers. The measurements I took were all approx .140in which would be 10ga. Interestingly all of the mounting tabs looks to be made from 3/16" material. While I would have preferred 2x4 vs. 2x3, I do feel that these are pretty stout and will serve as a good foundation.

I am not the biggest fan of the mounting tabs. They place the rails very far inboard and come drilled for solid mounts. However there are 2 advantages this yields for my application. One, it provides clearance for wide tires up front. I plan to run 275's. Two, it places the inner surface of the rails very close to the mounting locations on the oem C4 k-member which will make the fabrication very easy.

Here are some pics of the rails mocked up for the time being.

[maro67]

Picking up where I left off. I had some time before I was able to get back to the car and did a lot of thinking and planning of the suspension. I had always wanted to run all C5 suspension. At some point I had settled on the C4 platform for several reasons. Well, I decided I would regret it if I didn't build this car the way that I had originally intended. Long story short I came across a really good deal on front and rear C5 suspension with brakes that I couldn't pass up.

I'll get to that but first order was to un-mount the front frame rails and drill out the mounting tabs for poly urethane mounting bushings. The frame rails came will slotted holes and solid mounts. I really wanted to go with poly mounts so I had to do some modifications. I took some pictures of the frame rails when I had them off the car to show you what they are like.

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[maro67]

All in all, I am happy with the product as received, especially for the price. They will do what I want from them. Here are a few shots of the welds (mig) and the gussets on them mounting tab. 174388174389174390

I didn't wind up getting any pics of the rails after I had drilled out the mounting tabs. I used a hole saw to drill through the 3/16" tabs. I made a drill guide out of a piece of aluminum plate that I had lying around so the hole saw wouldn't walk / wobble on me. When all was said and done it worked out well and I ended up with 29in between the inboard surfaces of the rails when mounted.

[maro67]

I re-mounted the frame rails with the poly bushings. Since the rails are loose at this point I cut some pieces of 2x4's to 29in (I used a hand saw and a sanding block to get them as close to 29" as I could) to use as spacers. I used some ratchet straps help hold everything in place. This helped to square everything up.

Okay on to the good stuff. Here are a couple pics of the initial mockup / layout of the C5 front suspension cradle and lower control arms. 174392174393

[maro67]

I fabbed up a jig to help locate and level the suspension cradle. I used the bolt holes on the underside where the mono leaf spring would mount. I can adjust each of the 4 corners independently. The nice part is that I can make fine adjustments by turning the upper nut and then lock them in place with the lower nut. I am using a bubble level on top of the mounting tab on the cradle where it will bolt to the frame rails. 174395174397

[maro67]

I mounted the front fender extensions, valance and header panel to make sure the front clip was all together. I wanted to do this before I centered the front suspension assembly. Over this weekend and next week I will be working on setting the stance and welding on tabs to mount the front suspension cradle. 174398174399

[maro67]

The way it is working out I will have 5in of ground clearance to the bottom of the suspension cradle. The control arms are set level (0 deg from center of vehicle out to the wheel). This is the equivalent of a slightly lowered C5 so it very close to stock geometry. I am not going to change the width or narrow the suspension.

Right now I have the front of the car jacked up a few inches so that I have room to work and move everything around. It is looking like the wheels are going to stick out past the front fenders about 3/8" on either side. My plan is to flare the fenders to make everything fit. It shouldn't take too much to gain the extra clearance I need.

Here is a picture of what it looks like at the current moment. 174401

I am mocking it up with 0 deg front camber as the stock C5 alignment specs do not run much neg front camber at all.

[maro67]

Made some more progress on the front suspension over the past week / weekend. I've been using a regular 4ft level across the frame rails to ensure the car and frame are level. I spent a good amount of time focusing on making sure the suspension cradle was level, centered and square. Like I mentioned in the last post, I used a bubble level on the mounting surfaces of the suspension cradle. It took several iterations of adjustments, but I was able to achieve a good balance across all 4 mounting pads.

The bubble isn't quite dead nuts centered, but I was at least able to get it "in the circle" on all 4 corners, the jig helped a ton. I checked level across the mounting points with the 4ft straight level and it all looks good.

Passenger side rear
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Passenger side front
174687

[maro67]

To get the proper ground clearance for the suspension and set the overall stance of the vehicle, I had to notch the frame rails for the front mounting pads on the suspension cradle. I wound up cutting a 1.5 notch from the bottom of the rails. I was hoping it wouldn't require that much material to be removed. But I've got a good idea on how I am going to reinforce everything.

Well, that's all I have time for now. Got to take advantage of a sunny morning and get out and ride the Buell! I'll post up some more pictures later.

[maro67]

Okay, where was I? Oh, Happy Easter everyone!

So as you can see I had to notch the frame rails to accommodate the front suspension cradle. I made a decision to use the suspension cradle vs. fabricating lower control arm mount, etc. There are pros and cons to going either way but I really want to be able to run as many oem components as possible. Keeping the cradle allows for things like stock steering rack, accessories, oil pan and more.

However it does come with its own challenges. For example, now that the frame rails are notched, I need to fabricate mounts. I am using 3/16" plate. You can see that the outboard wall of the frame rail interferes with the both the locating dowl pin and the mounting bolt hole. I wanted to keep the dowls so I decided to trim them flush with the mounting plate. 174692

You can see what I mean a little better in this picture. The dowls were an easy fix. The mounting bolts were really close. I could insert them up from the underside of the cradle. Unfortunately the od of the bolt was basically flush against the outboard wall of the frame rail and would not allow room for either the head of the bolt or a nut and washer. 174693

[maro67]

At this point I needed to come up with a way to address the mounting bolt interference. I believe I mentioned in an earlier post that I plan to install reinforcement down tubes from the firewall that will tie into the frame rails. I chose to take advantage of that and incorporate a solution for the mounting bolt interference and use it as a tie in point for the down tubes.

I cut another (vertical notch) in the frame rails. I am using 2" x 0.125" square tube mounted vertically to tie into the mounting plates and the frame rails. The mounting bolts can be dropped in from the top side of the square tube.174699

The vertical tubes are centered on the mounting bolt holes, so there is plenty of rim inside the tube for the head of the bolt and a washer as well as clearance for a socket on an extension. I cut these piece with excess at this point. I can trim them to whatever height they need to be later. I'd rather have extra material now and be able to cut to length later than the other way around. As of now my plan is to use the vertical tubes to tie into down tubes from the firewall as mentioned. However, if I dont like how that plays out and choose to go another way, I figure I can always trim them flush with the top of the frame rail and close it out with another piece of 3/16" plate with a hole cut for the mounting bolts.

Here are some more pictures showing how it all ties in together. In addition to acting as a solution for the mounting bolts, these tubes should add back some much needed strength to the frame rails from where they were originally notched for the suspension cradle. If I can tie them into firewall down tubes that will just stiffen up the whole structure that much further.174700174701174702

[maro67]

Next up is the rear mounting tabs for the front suspension cradle. Fortunately these are much more straight forward.
174728

I am using 3/16" plate for the mounting tabs.
174729174730

I am going to tack weld everything in place then move onto the upper control arm and shock mounts. My thought it I will weld everything that I can on the bench and then tack the brackets, etc. in place. I will then uninstall everything and finish weld everything with the frame rails off the car. This will make it much easier since I can avoid vertical and over head welding positions.

I have a few things on my to do list around the house this week. I am hoping to get back on the car this weekend.

[maro67]

Time for some long overdue updated. I just wrapped up the final welding on the front subframe and will be moving to the rear suspension. Time to tackle getting that C5 transaxle installed. But first some pics of the front subframe and suspension.

Since my last post, I decided to remake the back mounts for the suspension cradle to frame rails. I wasn't crazy about how the 1st ones turned out. This time I chose to make them from a single piece of square tube. You can also see how I chose to add 2in square tube for mounting the upper a-arms.


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I fabricated what I will call upper frame rails out of 2in x .125 square tube. These are used to mount the upper control arms and upper shock mounts. They tie into the main frame rails firewall body mounting tabs and the vertical tubes.

178475

[maro67]

I am keeping with the C5 stock suspension geometry, so I made the miter cuts to place the upper frame rail section that the control arms will mount to at the same angle as the oem mounting points. This will keep the anti-dive characteristics of the C5 corvette intact. Since I am going to be using the T56 transaxle, rear suspension and torque tube, along with an aluminum gen IV LS motor, this should work out well for a street car.

I a guesstimating the finished car to weigh in around 32xx lbs. Right in the ball park of a stock C5 corvette. I am going to run the C5 Z06 factory leaf springs and sway bars. Since the Camaro is about 3.5 inches longer than the Vette, I am going to attempt to keep the torque tube at the stock length and make custom motor mounts to setback the engine accordingly. Again, my guesstimating puts this setup close to the C5 stock weight distribution.

Given the way the factory front upper control arms mount, I am going to make the anti-dive angle fixed. I may make the rear suspension upper control arm mounting points adjustable, so as to be able to tune the anti-squat. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

178476

[maro67]

I added some gussets to the upper frame rails at the miter joint. Also, I drilled the holes and notched the rails to mount the upper a-arms. The notches will get boxed in to maintain strength of the upper rails.

178477

Here you can see the reason for notching the upper rails. Also, I left a little bit of clearance to be able to shim the upper arms as needed for alignment. During the mock up I centered the lower arms mounts in the slots on the suspension cradle. This should allow for proper alignment once all is said and done.

178478

[maro67]

I decided I needed to add some additional support / bracing before I fabbed the upper shock mounts. I cut some pieces from 3/16 plate added theses braces to give some more rigidity.

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It's starting to take shape.

178481

[maro67]

Next up was the upper shock mounts. Used some more 3/16in plate for these. I didnt go too crazy with the structure for the shock mounts, as I plan to run the C5 leaf springs. Even if I switch to an adjustable shock, the mounts will only have to carry the dampening loads. The leaf springs mount to the suspension cradle and which supports the sprung weight of the vehicle. 178482178483

[maro67]

Well that is it on the front subframe fab for now. I plan on making a removable cross brace (maybe and "X" brace) that will go in between the vertical tubes. I also have some ideas on how to make a bolt in shock tower brace. I am going to wait until I get the engine set in place with the accessories mocked up before I go any further. I also make add an additional gusset between the main frame rails and the upper rails close to where they tie into the body mounting tabs. Again, I want to wait until I get a little further along to make sure there are no clearance issues with things like the steering shaft, etc.

It is finally time to break this down and do all the finish welding.

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I'm certainly no pro but overall I am happy with how things are turning out. It's a lot of welds for my little Eastwood mig machine. I had tun into the duty cycle a couple times and had to let the machine take a rest but it got the job done.

178486

[maro67]

After finishing the welding I hit everything with some of the Fast-etch to get rid of any rust and provide some corrosion protection. I plan to have these powder coated when all is said and done. Time to re-assemble the front end before moving to the back of the car. It wasn't too bad getting everything back in place. The dowel pints on the suspension cradle help getting everything aligned. I also left the suspensions cradle mounted to the frame table when I broke down the frame rails so really that made the job a hell of a lot easier. Other than that a couple ratchet straps and my calibrated 2 x 4 to set the distance between the rails and the body mounting points and shes good to go.

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That all for now. Time to get that rear suspension cradle set in place and start laying out the rear frame rails. I have some basic ideas as how the overall design is going to be but I'm sure I'll have to make some changes on the fly.

[TANKMASTERJ]

That's a really nice. Project and some good looking Fab work Keep it up.
I didn't go that creative on mine but probably m sure impressed with yours.
I'm using speedtech front subframe and rear torque arm on mine but I did replace floor, trunk floor narrowed frame rails and mini tubs myself. I mocked up Al my suspension and ridetech stainless roll cage before I decided I need
Take it to a dedicated hotrod shop to get some metal replaced around my window areas and smooth my fire wall as I'm so busy with work.
I'm ready to get it back now and mock up engine tranny, heat and AC and my dry sump gear.
Jason's 67 Camaro is my build thread

[egoman]

Did you slug the upper control arm bolt holes? If not those will continuously loosen up with driving. Just trying to save you having to do this after powder coating.

[maro67]

Did you slug the upper control arm bolt holes? If not those will continuously loosen up with driving. Just trying to save you having to do this after powder coating.

So I've thought about this. When you say they will continue to loosen up I assume you mean the actual holes in the square tube will wear and "egg shape" or "oval" over time. I am familiar with installing a slug as you mention. I've also seen something the off road / 4 wheeler crowd does. They use "weld washer" on the 4 link mounting tabs to avoid the same type of wear and tear on the holes.

I was thinking I could go that route and find some thick wall washers or just fab some from either 1/8 or 3/16 plate. I guess the idea is once you weld it to the mounting surface, the weld will carry any sheer load. End result is you basically double the wall thickness and this in turn will keep the holes from wearing out. I figure if its a proven practice for the off roaders it should work for a street car. Those trucks usually weigh a ton and the suspension takes repeated shock loads.

What do you think?

[egoman]

Actually the tubes will crush inwards. The holes if they were just one plate would be fine when tightened. BUT if you bolt across the tube they will continuously loosen off as the tube flexes. It will flex!

[CamaroAJ]

Since I'm farther ahead of you doing a C5 swap I can help you out some. Early C6 Z06 torque tubes are longer then C5 tubes as is the bell housing, which will help you to not have to move the engine as far back as you'll be about 11" back from stock if you try and use C5 stuff not modified. I think my engine is about 8" back from stock. I over came the 3.5" difference by using a C6 bell with a early C6Z tube then a C7Z 7 speed (1.75" longer the the T56 and yes, I have the first 7 speed swapped first gen in the world lol) mounted to a C6Z rear diff. in a C6 rear subframe (the diff mounts differently in the C6). It came out to 3.25" longer then a C5 drivetrain so I needed to massage the mounting holes in the rear cradle just a little bit. I have a build thread on here too with pics.

If you haven't built rear upper mounts yet use C6Z upper control arms, they mount the same as the front uppers instead of the through bolt design which makes things tricky when you do the tin work out back.

[maro67]

Since I'm farther ahead of you doing a C5 swap I can help you out some. Early C6 Z06 torque tubes are longer then C5 tubes as is the bell housing, which will help you to not have to move the engine as far back as you'll be about 11" back from stock if you try and use C5 stuff not modified. I think my engine is about 8" back from stock. I over came the 3.5" difference by using a C6 bell with a early C6Z tube then a C7Z 7 speed (1.75" longer the the T56 and yes, I have the first 7 speed swapped first gen in the world lol) mounted to a C6Z rear diff. in a C6 rear subframe (the diff mounts differently in the C6). It came out to 3.25" longer then a C5 drivetrain so I needed to massage the mounting holes in the rear cradle just a little bit. I have a build thread on here too with pics.

If you haven't built rear upper mounts yet use C6Z upper control arms, they mount the same as the front uppers instead of the through bolt design which makes things tricky when you do the tin work out back.

Hey man, thanks for the input. I have checked out your build. Thats one hell of a project you got going on there! Really enjoy watching how its all coming together.

I actually read through how you used parts from different gen Vettes to make up some extra length on the drivetrain. I did a lot of searching around but at the end of the day it was just much more affordable to go with all C5 parts. I already have everything from the bellhousing to the rear diff. Trust me I was very tempted to go after a tr6060! At the end of the day even with the cost of having the C5 torque tube lengthened (if needed) I just couldnt pass up the deal I got on C5 stuff.

Now, with the C6 rear upper control arms you have my ear. That is definitely something I will look into.

I do have one question for you. Can you tell me (even approximately) what angles your rear control arm mounting points wound up at? Essentially what does the side view virtual swing arm "SVSA" look like? Im laying out my rear suspension setup now and it looks like if I set the cradle to where the lower arm mounts are roughly 9 - 10 deg upward (from back to front of vehicle) and set the upper arm mounts to just about 1deg up, this will yield about a 64 % anti-squat (taking into account the camaro wheelbase and using an 18in cg height). From everything I hear 60 -65% is the target range for a performance street setup. I'd greatly appreciate any info you can share.

[CamaroAJ]

Hey man, thanks for the input. I have checked out your build. Thats one hell of a project you got going on there! Really enjoy watching how its all coming together.

I actually read through how you used parts from different gen Vettes to make up some extra length on the drivetrain. I did a lot of searching around but at the end of the day it was just much more affordable to go with all C5 parts. I already have everything from the bellhousing to the rear diff. Trust me I was very tempted to go after a tr6060! At the end of the day even with the cost of having the C5 torque tube lengthened (if needed) I just couldnt pass up the deal I got on C5 stuff.

Now, with the C6 rear upper control arms you have my ear. That is definitely something I will look into.

I do have one question for you. Can you tell me (even approximately) what angles your rear control arm mounting points wound up at? Essentially what does the side view virtual swing arm "SVSA" look like? Im laying out my rear suspension setup now and it looks like if I set the cradle to where the lower arm mounts are roughly 9 - 10 deg upward (from back to front of vehicle) and set the upper arm mounts to just about 1deg up, this will yield about a 64 % anti-squat (taking into account the camaro wheelbase and using an 18in cg height). From everything I hear 60 -65% is the target range for a performance street setup. I'd greatly appreciate any info you can share.

I had a C5Z drive train that I was starting with and was going to have the TT lengthened, but it cost me the same by keeping an eye out for deals to go the way I did as it would to have the tube lengthened and this way I have off the shelf replacement parts available.

I don't have any suspension details since I didn't mess with any of that by using the stock frame. I don't know where any of my angle finders that are packed away are either to even get an angle.

[Alwhite00]

Subscribed

[maro67]

Well its been quite a while so its time for another long over due update. From my last post, I have been focused all attention on the rear of the car. I am fabricating a rear frame section to mount the C5 rear subframe and IRS. I started my locating the stock subframe under the car whith the body set to the ride height I plan on running. I also made sure to set the height of the subframe to be where I want it when static.
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[maro67]

Next up I made another jig locate and level the rear subframe similar as to what I did up front. This make things so much easier when you start installing the suspension components and mocking everything up. 183758

[maro67]

The way I decided to approach the rear of the car is to fabricate a rear frame section that will tie into where the stock leaf spring mounts were located. I figure the body of the car was originally suspended at these locations and is designed to be supported that way. At the aft side its pretty straight forward as I will utilize the original rear frame rails and install poly leaf spring bushings to mount to. At the forward location the stock leaf springs mount in brackets that are bolted to the factory frame rail and floor / rocker panel on the body. The actual leaf spring bracket is not going to work for what I want to do but the body / floor of the car is reinforced in that area so I plan to take advantage of that.

First things first. The biggest challenge here is packaging. It really is like trying to stuff 10 pounds in 5 pound bag. Obviously I am going to be cutting into the trunk floor and the rear seat area to make room for everything. That being said, I want to maintain as much of the factory floors as feasibly possible. The main reason for this is for finishing off the interior and trunk area.

The configuration I have decided on is as follows. I am going to loose the back seat there is pretty much no way around this as the space is needed for the transaxle and exhaust tubing. I plan to make use of the rear seat interior space for storing a spare tire, jack, tool kit and battery. I want this car to be street driving and these items are necessities. I have decided to go with a trunk mounted fuel cell and to use the space under the trunk floor for the muffler(s). Similar layout as the factory C5 setup. There certainly is more than one way to skin a cat, but this is the direction I am going with.

The next order of business was to fabricate a center section for the rear frame. I started by laying out how I want locate cross members and determine what type of clearance I will need with the trunk floor. Not much to see in this picture, but I used some scrap pieces to represent where the 2 x 3 cross members will go (which will have mounting tabs for the upper control arms and shock mounts). I also laid out pieces of 2 x 2 square tube and 3/16" plate that will be used to mount the C5 subframe.183766

[maro67]

Also in the above picture you can see, in the bottom left, a piece of 2 x 3 tube that will be one of the frame rails that will go to the stock leaf spring forward mounting location. Again keep in mind this is merely a rough layout at this point. One other thing, I have cut out the majority of the stock rear frame rails. I needed to do this to make room for everything. I left about 12-18in of the stock frame rails intact at the rear of the vehicle, this way I still have the rear leaf spring mounts to work with. Unfortunately, I don't really have any good pictures showing this before I started mocking everything up.

[maro67]

I took the subframe out from under the car to start fabricating the rear frame. In an effort to keep things as compact as reasonably possible, I got a little creative with the configuration of the rear center section. Here is the initial layout.183767183769

[maro67]

The basic top layout of the center section is a "picture frame" made from 2 x 3 x .125" tube and the mounting brackets are all made from 3/16" plate. Here I finished boxing in the front mounting brackets.183770

- - - Updated - - -

Followed by lots of welding.183771183772

- - - Updated - - -

Its starting to take shape. Here I have the mounting tabs for the upper control arms installed.183773

[maro67]

Since the mounting tabs for the upper control arms extremely close to the cross members, the bolts have to be inserted from the inboard (in between the mounts) side. This means the shock mounts are going to have to be removable to get them in. While I am not too crazy about this, it is a compromise I've decided to live with rather than spacing the cross members further apart or having a different configuration all together.

[maro67]

After a lot of thought I decided that I had to modify the forward cross member on the rear frame center section to add an exhaust pass thru on either side. I am using sections of square tube to this. This will allow me to keep the exhaust pipes away from the drive axles and still keep everything as compact as possible. Here it is mocked up.183776

- - - Updated - - -

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[maro67]

Wrapped up the cross member modifications and added some gussets to tie it all together183778183779

[maro67]

Next up is to tackle the shock mounts. Then I can get this thing back under the car and start laying out the rest of the frame rails for the rear section and figure out how I am going to mount it to the body of the car. I am still kicking around ideas on how to connect the front and rear frame sections. I have two concepts I am working on. Still not sure if it is going to be a full frame or if I am going to go with a removable subframe connector of sorts. I think it's going to depend on how the torque tube sits in the car. If I have wind up having to cutout the existing driveshaft tunnel to raise and widen it then I will most likely go with more of a full frame type design. If I don't have to do too much in the way of modifying the drive shaft tunnel then a removable subframe connector may work better. One thing at a time though. Like I said, shock mounts are next on the list.

[David Sloan]

Nice build ! I’m in for updates!

[maro67]

Hey man, that's a pretty sick 69 you got going on there. Any idea about how many inches the engine setback wound up at? How is the leg room in the foot well? I'm not quite there yet, but I'm really hoping I can get away without lengthening the torque tube. I don't mind if I have to play with the front seat location a bit as I won't be running a back seat. Ah well, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

[H'sPerformance]

Awesome build, digging the subframe mounting! I'm starting a build using C5 stuff as well, how did you determine the pickup points for the upper A-arms? I've been looking for this info for a long time, any direction would be greatly appreciated.

[maro67]

Awesome build, digging the subframe mounting! I'm starting a build using C5 stuff as well, how did you determine the pickup points for the upper A-arms? I've been looking for this info for a long time, any direction would be greatly appreciated.

Hey man, I used a picture / drawing I found that is used in the collision repair industry. Check out this thread, https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/133819-C5-Suspension-cradle-gound-clearance?highlight=

The picture in the thread will give you the dimensions from the C5 oem subframe mounting points to the control arm and shock mounting locations. Study the picture the info is in there. Also, I started that thread because I wanted to better understand how to determine the C5 oem stock ride height. Post #4 has a link to some good info from another site. There is a lot of info on stock ride height and ride height adjustments on the corvette forums.

Good luck with your build. Let me know if you have any questions. I will do my best to help out.

[maro67]

Time for some updates. Since my last post I have just about finished the mockup on the rear frame section. I had mentioned that I was fabricating removable rear shock mounts. I made them from 3/16 steel plate. They attach to the rear frame section with 2 bolts in the vertical position and 1 in the horizontal. In this picture I have only pilot holes drilled that I used to transfer / match drill the frame. 186394

[maro67]

I dont really have any good pictures of the shock mounts bolted to the rear frame section. This first one is from when I was mocking things up and transfer drilling the pilot holes.
186395

This one shows the finished shock mounts bolted to the rear frame section before I mounted the hole thing back under the car.
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[maro67]

At this point, the center section of the rear frame is pretty much complete. I will have some mounting tabs for exhaust hangers and brake lines but that is further down the road. The next order of business was to get the frame centered back under the car so I could layout how it will mount to the body. I dont recall if I had mentioned previously, but I plan to bolt the rear frame to the body where the oem leaf springs mounted. I figured the body was originally designed to be supported by the leaf springs at these locations and they are reinforced. I can also tie the cage into the mounting points to further reinforce everything.

At the back of the car I am using the leaf spring mounts in the oem rear frame rails. I installed leaf spring poly bushings in the factory frame rails. I fabricated a cross member with mounting tabs out of 2 x 3 x .125" rectangle tube and 3/16" plate.
186399

The whole thing will bolt to the rear frame rails the same way the leaf springs did. I left a little of clearance so that I can install a washer or two on either side to make sure everything is perfrectly centered once it gets permanently installed. Here is a close up on one of the ends. 186400

[maro67]

I have been being very conservative with the amount of floor that I cut out of the trunk area. I want to retain as much of the oem sheet metal as feasible. One of the main reasons for this is that the trunk floor adds a lot of strength and rigidity to the rear of the body, especially in the area where the hump for the solid axle rear housing and the inner wheel tubs. This is probably about what I am going to be looking at to make room for the rear frame and differential. I will still have to cut more material out for the transmission and torque tube but I am trying to focus on one area at a time.

When all is said and done I am going to have to fabricate new sheet metal sections to close everything out. I picked up a bead roller so I can try to regain some of the strength lost when cutting out the factory trunk floor section.

186401

This picture will give you an idea of how much room is needed to fit the C5 transaxle under the 1st gen Camaro body. As I have mentioned I've been trying to keep everything as compact as possible. 186402

[maro67]

With the rear frame center section and suspension cradle located back under the car, I bolted in the rear cross member. It is a bit difficult to get good quality pictures from underneath the car but I will do my best. Once installed, the cross member tucks up under the rear of the car nicely. From the side view everything is hidden. From the rear of the car you can just barely see the tiniest bit of the cross member below the rear valence. I honestly think once the car is on the ground and everything is painted you wont even notice it. It basically sites where the rear of the oem gas tank would be.

186403

[maro67]

I used two pieces of 2 x 3 x .125" with a miter cut to make rear rails to connect the frame center section to the rear cross member. Everything it just tacked in place now. Once I get the forward connections made on the rear frame the whole thing will come out from under the car one more time for finish welding. I will also add some fish plates and gussets in key locations. 186404

[maro67]

To mount the forward rails on the rear frame section under the car I came up with a pretty slick solution. I have removed approximately the forward 2/3's of the factory sheet metal frame rails. Including the section of the factory frames where the leaf spring pockets bolted to. I am fabricating forward frame rails that basically be located in the same space the factory rails once occupied. I have seen other aftermarket chassis and rear suspension kits bolt onto the oem rails but those things are just so dam thin that I couldn't bring myself to do it.

I am going to jump ahead a bit and work backwards. First I fabricated some square boxes from 3/16" plate. They are about 4.25" square on all sides. The top surface of the box is closed and that plate has a hole in it for some universal poly body bushings / mounts. The bottom of the box is open to get the rest of the body mount hardware in place and run a bolt up through the whole thing. This picture shows the two boxes mounted to the underside of the car at the location described above. Right now there is just about 5" of ground clearance to the bottom of the boxes and I can probably cut them down about a .25" to gain a little more.
186409

[maro67]

This is what the body mounts / bushings looks like before being installed. They are a universal set of poly bushings. It is basically the same configuration as is used to mount the front subframe to the body.186410

[maro67]

One of the reason I chose this for the mounting points is that the body is reinforced in these locations. To actually bolt everything in place I am using the same "floating nut" assembly that is used at the front of the car. The actual pieces I am using are replacement parts that are meant for where the front subframe bolts to the location under the front seats. I like this because it is threaded for the correct size bolt, allows for a good amount of adjustment for centering the frame under the car and I figure they work at the front of the car so why reinvent the wheel. I havent welded them in place yet. I am waiting until the frame section is finished and mocked up in place. I want to make sure I have good adjustment in all directions.186411

[maro67]

Sticking with the 2 x 3 x .125" rectangle tube I fabricated some short rails for the forward side of the rear frame section to tie it all together. On a side note, a while back I picked up an inexpensive horizontal band saw from the "budget big box store". It took a good amount of effort to get it adjusted and the blade running true. But all in all for under $300 bucks the thing does what it is meant to. It also can be configured as a vertical saw which is great for cutting brackets from plate. Man I wish I pulled the trigger on this sooner. This photo shows the miter cut for the frame rail pieces I made with the saw. It is soooooooo much better than working with an abrasive chop saw and an angle grinder!186412

[maro67]

Here's a picture of the forward rails welded up with the body mounts.186413

[maro67]

Finally this thing is coming together. Its all mocked up and the forward and aft rails are tacked in place.186414186415

[Motown 454]

Great update. You've got a lot made and bolted in, Nice work!

[H'sPerformance]

This is what the body mounts / bushings looks like before being installed. They are a universal set of poly bushings. It is basically the same configuration as is used to mount the front subframe to the body.186410
Thanks for the info, and great update! Can you share the P/N for these?

[maro67]

Thanks for the info, and great update! Can you share the P/N for these?

The universal body mounts are made by energy suspension, the p/n is 9.4101R. You can beat the price. If you looks around you can find a pair for just under $30.

[ICrombie]

Great work on building the frame to hold the cradle! I may have missed it earlier in the thread, but what do you plan on doing for the gas tank?

[maro67]

Great work on building the frame to hold the cradle! I may have missed it earlier in the thread, but what do you plan on doing for the gas tank?

Plan is to run a fuel cell in the trunk and the muffler will go under the trunk floor in the area that the stock gas tank was, similar to how it is on the C5 and C6 corvettes.

[maro67]

The project is still alive and kicking. Been busy with a lot of other things the past 18months. I have made more progress since the last posts. Unfortunately I lost a bunch of pictures when my last cell phone broke. Essentially I finished the rear subframe and got it installed under the car then started modifying the trunk floor and interior floor boards to make room for the drive line.

I'll post up some more pictures over the next couple of weeks as I get back into it. Here's what I have right now.

[maro67]

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[maro67]

Also, I had to take a break from doing the metal fab and started building a LS stroker motor. I have a build thread for the motor over on LS1Tech. I should be wrapping up the final assembly on the motor over the next two weeks then will be getting back on the car. Can't wait to get this thing on the ground as a roller!

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/1964311-l92-402cu-stroker-build-l8t-crank-rods-3.html#post20496798

[maro67]

Time for some long overdue updates. Picking up where I left off, with the engine set so far back I had to modify the cowl to make room. I wanted to make sure I was able to retain the upper / outer cowl panel. I will be limited to running the factory LS3 intake manifold or something else very low profile. Here is how I modified the lower cowl to make room for everything.209259

[maro67]

209260209261209262209263

[maro67]

In doing all of the mods to the cowl, I no longer am able to run a stock windshield wiper setup. I do want to retain functional wipers so I will be running a street rod setup.

91123302
Specialty Power Windows WWK-2 Standard Universal Wiper Drive Kit

The wiper motor will be mounted inside the car on the firewall / under the dash.

[maro67]

I wanted to make sure that I didn't compromise the structural integrity of the body at the cowl and windshield post area. So I reinforced the body from inside the car with a piece of 1.75" o.d. dom tube.

But first here are some pics of how I mocked up a smoothed firewall.

209264209265209266209267209268209269209270

[maro67]

Here is the firewall all welded in with some temporary rattle can primer
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[maro67]

With the engine Bay, cowl & firewall all squared away it's time to finally close up the interior sheet metal. The torque tube tunnel wasn't to bad, just needed to make sure to leave enough room for the shifter linkage.

The panels that took the most amount of time and effort where connecting the firewall and floors to the torque tube tunnel. I guess you can call this a bell housing tunnel. From inside the car it has a very odd shape but that is intentional. I really paid a lot of attention to making sure that there is enough room to get around the engine from within the engine bay. Need to make sure I can do things like get the valve covers off and service the valvetrain later on down the road and what not.

Surprisingly it is super easy to get the headers in/out. All things considered I'm happy with how it turned out. Also from inside the car all this stuff is going to be hidden under the dash.

[maro67]

209276209277209278209279

[maro67]

I didn't have any pictures yet of the bell housing tunnel all welded up and sanded and primed. But here is how the torque tube tunnel connects at the transaxle. It looks a little boxy in the pictures but I wanted to make sure I left enough room for 3" tail pipes around the transaxle and over the drive axles. It's all going to be hidden under finished interior panels anyway. This is going to be a 2 seater just like the vette.

My plan is to make some mounting locations for the battery, a small scissor jack, donut/spare tire and a tool kit behind the seats that will all be hidden under carpeted /finished interior panels. I figured it's a good place to keep the weight of those items low and centralized. 209280209281209282

In these pictures you can also see how I modified the trunk floor pan to make room for the transaxle and subframes.

[maro67]

So I decided to go a different route for the wheels and tires and especially the fender flares. I picked up a used set of Forgestars CF5 rims. It's a staggered setup. 19x10 up front and 19x12 in the back. Going to be running 305/30 and 355/30 front & rear.

For the fender flares I decided to go with the Cotati Speed Shop Camaro flares from Clinched. Here's a couple pics with them just taped in place to get a rough idea of how it will look. This is what I'm currently working on. There is a good bit of fab worked required to make it all work and have a good fit and finish but it's going to be worth it when it's done. I really dig the radical trans am / hot wheels look this thing is going to have.209283209284209285209286

[maro67]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot with the engine set so far back the front of the engine block is now behind the center line of the front wheels. So this is now officially a "mid engine" 67 Camaro.209287

[badbu68]

I'm not a big fan of fender flares, but those wheels and flares looks so good. Keep up the good work!

[maro67]

Appreciate the kind words. I'm with you, usually I don't care for bolt on body panels / effects. I really like the design and style of these. I figured Id give them a try. Once I saw it in person mocked up on the car it was a done deal.

[dhutton]

Awesome build. I thought about doing this using Dobbertin adapters. Glad I didn’t, this job is well above my pay grade.

Don

[XLexusTech]

Remember that guy who used a Wheelbarrow on the firewall for this.. LOL

[maro67]

I was very close to using the dobberton differential adapter that allows you to use a traditional transmission and driveshaft setup. Glad I went all in.

[maro67]

So I did some searching through my google photos backup files to see if I could find some of the pictures I lost when my old phone died on me. Unfortunately I was only able to find a couple. Here is a couple shots of the trunk floor section I fabricated to close out the hole I made to make clearance for the rear frame section.

I tried to make it match the factory trunk floor as much as I could. First time I did any bead rolling.

212090212091

[rocketrod]

Nice work. With all the firewall mods, what pedal setup are you using and have to mocked it up to see if it'll work?

[maro67]

Haven't really gotten to that part yet. However I have starting looking at some of the triple pedal setups that Wildwood makes. It's going to wind up being largely dependent on where the seat position winds up.

One of the reasons I welded in the "cross tube" brace behind the firewall was to have a good foundation to fabricate mounting structure / points for the steering column and pedal assembly.

I do plan on running manual brakes. So, I won't have to fit a brake booster. I'm thinking I'm going to try to locate the master cylinders (brake and clutch) up under the dash. Wildwood has some nice setups. Will just figure out which will work best for me when I get there.

[thumper877]

Here is were I mounted mine. We're the center speaker was. 212100212101

[maro67]

That's pretty cool man. How is it filling / topping off the reservoirs with the windshield in place? I assume you have to use a funnel of sorts.

[maro67]

It's been pretty much October since I've gotten any actual work done on the car. I've been mainly focused on some other things. My main focus at the moment is getting the engine finished and running on the test stand. That being said since my last posts, I had gotten a little further with the fender flare install.

I started by getting them laid out and located where I want them to sit. Right now the mounting holes are drilled up and the flares are temporarily installed with some clecos. I am making some significant modifications to the quarters, front fender and wheel wells to make room for the larger tires. I've got the rear sheet metal all cut and started "tucking" a new lip on the quarter panel wheel openings. I'm going to use this to weld in filler pieces of sheet metal to tie back into the outer wheel housing panels in the rear. A lot of hammer and dolly work on the back end!

[maro67]

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It took many, many, attempts on getting the location and fit down. Once I got one side how I wanted it, I made a paper template to transfer the location of the upper edge of the flare and mounting locations to the other side.

[maro67]

The front was a bit more difficult to nail down the location. I was never crazy about how high Cotati left the rear edge of the front flares. They have their car setup as much more of a full track car. I wound up "clocking them" more rotated towards the rear of the car. Also, I don't thave hem sitting nearly as high up on the fenders. All in all I was able to find an orientation that I'm happy with. They do fit pretty nicely along the fenders for the most part. However in the back you can see they are hanging out in the air.y plan is to modify the fenders and build in some vents. I'm going to do try to do this with sheet metal on the fender themselves to limit the number of pieces and seems. Still have a ways to go so I'll cross that bridge when I get there.



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[maro67]

So here is how she sits as of today, note the front clip is not completely shimmed and bolted in place at the moment as I was taking the fenders on and off a bunch. 212445212446212447212448212449

[ryeguy2006a]

Wow, very nice work!!

[speedfreakcobra]

Love the Camaro. our builds are very similar with the mid-engine setup. Your skills are excellent.

[maro67]

Hey man thanks for the kind words. I just checked out your build. It's going to be one badass ride when its all said and done!.

[PBarkley]

Beautiful work, boss! Don't hesitate to holler if you need a second set of hands! ;)

[maro67]

Pete, good to hear from ya man! I'm gonna need to see some pictures of that Lemans one of these days.

[PBarkley]

Once she's out of paint/body in the next few months she'll be a little more photogenic, haha.