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Sean Cooke
01-25-2014, 01:06 PM
Hi my name is Sean Cooke, I have the black 1971 chevelle featured on this website i wanted to share something i am currently dealing with in regards to a engine i had built by OutlawMotorsports in Riverside Ca. When I walked into OutlawMotorsports & spoke with the owner Ron, I thought I had found HotRod heaven... After doing a significant amount of business with the owner Ron in building my personal 1971 Chevelle & engine. I have come to discovery that the engine purchased a 496 bbc from this shop is in fact not of correct displacement. The rotating assembly used is a scat kit the part Numbers on the pistons #139506 & the part number on the rods #scat6135 (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/scat6135) in fact coincides with the rotating assembly available from www.scatcrankshafts.com (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scatcrankshafts.com%2F&h=dAQH6q8TR&s=1) the part number for the complete kit is #9-454-4250-6135 specifically labeled 489bbc with a compression ration with 119cc heads of about 8.7-1 .... The problem is, I have a detailed receipt for 496bbc carb to pan, which was paid for in cash for the sum of 8k. This is not information shared prior to purchase or during the year long course it took for me to pay for the motor but a significant amount of time after the motor was installed into my vehicle waiting for the rest of the car to be completed. So needless to say I was very upset with the purchasing facility of OutlawMotorsports and Ron. The excuse 1st provided for this mix up was " You don't want a motor bored .60 because you will have cooling problems because 496bbc runs hotter" I expressed to Ron that this may be all the way true but should have been disclosed prior to the motor being paid for, installed in my car, and driven. So then the 2nd answer provided was "everyone knows a 489 & 496 are the same thing- I don't see what the big deal is about 6ci" even though all my paperwork that was documented says 496bbc & not 489bbc which is in fact what is sitting in my car. I explained to Ron my distrust in him, told him he did bad & shady business practice- Which he shrugged off & still believes isn't bad business practice. I filed a complaint with the Bureau of Automotive Repair that is now in there business file - the complaint was honored even after the representative went to speak with Ron at OutlawMotorsports ... in their words it looked to be a classic case of "Bait & Switch" and if an when I decide to appear in small claims court to have a copy of the report & findings subpoena to the court proceeding for the judge to review.
You might be asking yourself okay what ended up happening, I have had the motor removed & all the part #s (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/s) documented, at my expense Of course. After being confronted by the BAR, Ron offered to re-machine the block and replace the pistons, which in most cases would be fine but since he has been extremely dis-honest in my eyes & getting caught up in this, I explained to him that the confidence I once had in his abilities to complete this task are now gone. He has though been sent a invoice from what I have found to be a reputable engine builder to replace the gaskets/machine work/ piston/ and Assembly of the engine in the amount of $3056 which he promptly responded that he will not pay for the assembly of the motor, and produce the gaskets himself. to illustrate my stand point the motor had to been removed from the vehicle and dis assembled because I felt there was deceit in our transaction based on the performance of the car itself. I have never asked him to replace or warranty any parts, all I have asked him to do is make the situation right so I don't have to continually take further actions against him or his business.. In my belief, Ron knows that going to court against me with what i have in writing produced by him will end in a unfavorable judgment, simply because the numbers don't lie. He has asked me not to slander his business & talk bad about the shop. I have included all the part numbers from scats crankshafts catalog & the part numbers from the parts removed so any future customers can make a informed decision on doing business with them & spending their hard earned money with someone who could potentially mislead them. If anyone wants to contact me or see the entire documented build of the 71 chevelle its on facebook at https://www.facebook.com/sean.cooke.96/media_set?set=a.1420024396013.44832.1694775254&type=3

Thanks for reading..

mmosley
01-25-2014, 01:46 PM
Sean,

Other than the .030 difference in bore size is there any other difference between the 489 and 496? 0.030 vs. 0.060 and the resulting 7ci is not going to make a significant difference in performance. Is the compression lower? Is something else different?

Sean Cooke
01-25-2014, 01:59 PM
Comp is 8.7-1 instead of 10.5-1

mmosley
01-25-2014, 02:06 PM
With the Al heads you want to be closer to 10.5-1. At face value on your previous statement since that was not mentioned I was wondering why you were so wound up. But, the difference in the compression ratio I now believe your frustration to be warranted. I would leave it at 0.030, there should not be a reason to go 0.060 unless the block needs it.

Sean Cooke
01-25-2014, 03:27 PM
A performance level was expected for the dollar & to find out the motor wasn't what was purchased was icing on the cake - I spent months trying to figure out why the power wasn't there - the motor ran fine, he was trusted that when I bought the 496bbc he had for sale that's what I would have gotten. I didn't ask him to build this motor - Nor did I supply the parts - I got burned, an they tried to brush it under the rug & not take responsibility for it ... He told me he could of sold the motor a bunch of times - my response was he should have, I have plenty of resources for motors & parts - had he been up front & I still purchased the motor this wouldn't be a issue - In a recent letter he sent me, he says the rotating assembly is for a 489/496 from scat - Scat does not make any off the shelf 496 kits nor do they dual list a 489 & 496 together - he knew what he was doing and got caught...

71maroesteban
01-25-2014, 03:35 PM
I know your pain I did business with a shop in Riverside too called foreplay customz aka foreplay racing they didn't nothing but use used junkyard parks and charged me as if they were new a year later and now all these other complaints from them are rising up no wonder shops there always fail they don't understand to just be honest instead they try to lie and get away with it and when caught they try to just brush it off

Sean Cooke
01-27-2014, 07:44 AM
I know your pain I did business with a shop in Riverside too called foreplay customz aka foreplay racing they didn't nothing but use used junkyard parks and charged me as if they were new a year later and now all these other complaints from them are rising up no wonder shops there always fail they don't understand to just be honest instead they try to lie and get away with it and when caught they try to just brush it off
It's sad because in the end we are disrespected & the shops are left with a slap on the wrist & will lie to new customers about the situation. Well here is my situation in entirety so if they choose to be dishonest the numbers don't lie

Mkelcy
01-27-2014, 08:56 AM
For my part, I'd never bore a block 0.030" simply to get 7 more inches of displacement. I'd prefer to have the rebore/rebuild option in the future, and I expect most of us would. So for me, the difference between 489 and 496 is meaningless both from a purchase and a performance standpoint.

The difference between a CR 0f 8.7:1 and 10.5:1 is significant, and if you were sold a 10.5 motor and ended up with an 8.7 motor, I'd understand your frustration. Does the "detailed receipt" you got for the engine specify the expected compression ratio for a given size head, or the pistons used in the build?

parsonsj
01-27-2014, 09:09 AM
Moved to Feedback, and Feedback rules apply from now on.

Sean Cooke
01-27-2014, 01:38 PM
For my part, I'd never bore a block 0.030" simply to get 7 more inches of displacement. I'd prefer to have the rebore/rebuild option in the future, and I expect most of us would. So for me, the difference between 489 and 496 is meaningless both from a purchase and a performance standpoint.

The difference between a CR 0f 8.7:1 and 10.5:1 is significant, and if you were sold a 10.5 motor and ended up with an 8.7 motor, I'd understand your frustration. Does the "detailed receipt" you got for the engine specify the expected compression ratio for a given size head, or the pistons used in the build?
Yes

Sean Cooke
01-27-2014, 01:46 PM
For my part, I'd never bore a block 0.030" simply to get 7 more inches of displacement. I'd prefer to have the rebore/rebuild option in the future, and I expect most of us would. So for me, the difference between 489 and 496 is meaningless both from a purchase and a performance standpoint.

?
I agree with you. Why wasn't this information disclosed in the beginning though? Because he new the motor was only worth 3500-4000at most not 8,000$ that a complete 496bbc would get ... As a consumer I have the right to know what I'm purchasing. Had I commissioned him to build this, or supplied the parts to him & the 489ci - 8.7-1 comp motor was the result them it's on me... They wouldn't have separate classifications for 489ci if it was the same as a 496ci - I felt having him responsible for the correction of this was a reasonable request