Keisler's is finished

[HELLCAMINO]

Not sure if this was posted yet?

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=562209

[DTM Racing]

Very unfortunate. Cases like these make folks want to buy from shops less and less and stick with the big boys (Jegs/Summit). And they are getting hard to compete with in terms of price.

[GeoffP]

I figured this was coming after seeing all of the posts about missed shipment deadlines and such. Sad to see so many vendors going out of business over the last few years even with Pro-Touring doing so well overall.

[James OLC]

Looking through the list of creditors it sucks see so many familiar names... Darn

[BonzoHansen]

Very unfortunate. Cases like these make folks want to buy from shops less and less and stick with the big boys (Jegs/Summit). And they are getting hard to compete with in terms of price.
Because of knock-offs I am more likely to buy from summit. I don't want fake eBay arp bolts.


I figured this was coming after seeing all of the posts about missed shipment deadlines and such. Sad to see so many vendors going out of business over the last few years even with Pro-Touring doing so well overall.Yup

[Nothingface5384]

Yeah, just seen the thead over at v8buick

That sucks, hope noone recently ordered through them

[zzfranczz]

Wow! skip chap 11 and right to 7, liquidation.

[Todd in Vancouver]

I've learned a lot from this site and fortunately and unfortunately one of those things is how to buy parts and not get ripped off.

[72BBSwinger]

He has had a bad rep for years, service is important.

[ChevelleNV]

Doesn't surprise me one bit...last year I sent them an email for a huge quote. took them 3 months to send me a quote...

[TonyHuntimer]

That's really too bad. :(

Tony Huntimer
TestCarDatabase

[dontlifttoshift]

It's too bad for his employees and for everyone on that list of creditors. The rest is just Karma.

[howehot]

I was warned this past summer to stay far far away when looking for a trans for the El Camino.

[lzdick]

It's too bad for his employees and for everyone on that list of creditors. The rest is just Karma.

Karma, you say? From the Gandhi of Beach Park? LOL

[Nicks67GTO]

That's unfortunate. I'm sure the list of people that got hosed is a mile long. On the other side of it though, I hear the SS700 is a really good transmission. Maybe someone else will buy the design and build it?

[Bonehead]

+1 on getting hosed. Ordered an actuator kit two months ago...what are the chances that I'll see it?

[71RS/SS396]

+1 on getting hosed. Ordered an actuator kit two months ago...what are the chances that I'll see it?

Zero chance you will see it.
Chapter 7 is liquidation of assets to satisfy the debt.
The banks and their vendors will likely get paid first.

[71RS/SS396]

That's unfortunate. I'm sure the list of people that got hosed is a mile long. On the other side of it though, I hear the SS700 is a really good transmission. Maybe someone else will buy the design and build it?

Legend Gear and Transmission is the company actually building the trans and they're still around. Keisler was just the marketing and distribution. I have a feeling Legend didn't know who they got into bed with until it was too late. This whole Keisler deal smells like Prodigy Customs all over again to a smaller scale, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Legend has transmissions sitting on the shelf ready to be shipped and Keisler took deposits and never ordered from them.

[SEPAW]

Have had a TKO 600 kit on order, with accompanying deposit, since October. The deal started to smell ripe around the end of the year so I disputed Amex charge and ordered with American Powertrain. Great folks and very sympathetic to my delimma. I was lucky and bailed in time but what a drag for the folks still thinking they have an order in the pipeline.

[Kenova]

Legend Gear and Transmission is the company actually building the trans and they're still around. Keisler was just the marketing and distribution.......
Legend has a second distributor/retailer listed on their web site.
Here's a link http://www.sprakerracing.com/

Ken

[Nicks67GTO]

Legend Gear and Transmission is the company actually building the trans and they're still around. Keisler was just the marketing and distribution. I have a feeling Legend didn't know who they got into bed with until it was too late. This whole Keisler deal smells like Prodigy Customs all over again to a smaller scale, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Legend has transmissions sitting on the shelf ready to be shipped and Keisler took deposits and never ordered from them.

If Legend can make reasonable order fulfillment happen, I think this tranny would sell like crazy but they would only have one chance to get it right. I cannot count how many times iv'e seen guys on the boards that want that tranny but were very reluctant to order because of bad press. I'm one of them. This tranny was/is on my upgrade list. Hopefully Legend can make something cool happen and work with people that got hosed in the process by Keisler.

[James OLC]

According to Shafi he



...took the initiative to refund all new order deposits going back to Thursday January 9 2014 once I realized the company was at risk of closure.


According to their FB page. From my limited exposure to this I would have to say that I doubt it.

[Nothingface5384]

Legend Gear and Transmission is the company actually building the trans and they're still around. Keisler was just the marketing and distribution. I have a feeling Legend didn't know who they got into bed with until it was too late. This whole Keisler deal smells like Prodigy Customs all over again to a smaller scale, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Legend has transmissions sitting on the shelf ready to be shipped and Keisler took deposits and never ordered from them.

They posted on v8buick

01-17-2014, 10:11 PM
#8 (http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?278057-HEADS-UP-KEISLER-TRANSMISSION-files-for-bankruptcy&p=2290885#post2290885)

1cre8iveguy (http://www.v8buick.com/member.php?41077-1cre8iveguy)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif1cre8iveguy



Join DateFeb 2013LocationNorth CarolinaPosts18


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif Re: HEADS UP KEISLER TRANSMISSION files for bankruptcy
The Legend Gear (if that's what he's calling the perfect fit) transmission was never his...he was our distributor...we paid the 2 million plus for the tooling and paid for design assistance...as car guys (we're ALL car guys at Legend) we wanted to address all issues including noise, torque rating, appearance, everything...we heard that we were getting a delivery black eye because of false information but that was never the case...if you call Jeff Spraker at Spraker Racing (704-799-1300) you will discover that your lead time is only 6-10 weeks...

I'm the sales manager, 67 GS owner, and I just bought one this week...we are truly sorry for those guys who left deposits but rest assured we didn't see any of that money...

We're still manufacturing OUR 5 speed transmission and will be on the creditor list with those who left deposits...and soon we'll be having good news for our customers by the way of very high profile customer endorsements...

Bruce Kepley, Legend Gear and Transmission, Statesville, NC

[AUTODYNAMICS]

Here is what shafi posted on facebook...

An Important Message from Shafi Keisler, Founder of Keisler Engineering.

Dear Customers, Friends and Associates of KEISLER Engineering;

On January 16 2014, I halted operations of Keisler Engineering Inc by filing it into Chapter 7 Bankruptcy. The motivation to place KE into Ch7 was a very recent decision, spurred by a run of order cancellations and refunds by concerned customers. Many of these concerned customers had spoken to our competitors that have been pouring on the negativity and rumors of KE shutting down since 2008. These are primarily two (2) competitors - one located in Cookeville TN and the other in Sacramento CA.

The order cancellations created a cash flow problem for KE, and placed new customer orders at risk. I took the initiative to refund all new order deposits going back to Thursday January 9 2014 once I realized the company was at risk of closure.

KE had a bright start to 2013, filling nearly 400 SS700 orders, along with RS, TREMEC and A41. Sales numbers overall were strong for the first half of 2013. KE's second half of 2013 was marred by supply and pricing problems at Legend Gear & Transmission and its gear manufacturing partner Abundant Manufacturing Inc in Statesville NC. AMI's own business problems stifled production of the components needed to build the LGT700 base unit. This was worsened by KE's inability to pay its 2011/2012 past due to AMI of nearly $300K, along with Legend's own inability to pay its 2013 past due to KE of nearly $100K. Then Legend implemented a tremendous price increase to KE of $900 per unit in the 3rd quarter, and changed their selling terms to require a $1000 down payment 12 weeks in advance of shipping the non-customized LGT700 base unit. And every shipment of LGT700 units or components KE received had quality problems requiring weeks of delays while LGT had to replace parts. And no Legend assembled LGT700 ever met quality standard, which required KE to disassemble and rework, causing a major slide in delivery. Every one of these factors impacted KE's financial strength and the ability to fill these sold SS700 orders. I was seeking to replace Legend/Abundant Mfg with a better supplier for 2014.

The Rallye Sport program was well on its way to becoming a brand new transmission, and completely independent of Legend. At the time of KE's closure a majority of the orders were in-process to be completed.

The TREMEC program including the TKO and T56 was the foundation of the Keisler 5-speed so widely known since I developed these kits and the market as a whole starting in the late 90s. By 2005, KE was generating close to $1 Million dollars in NET profit, which is why the competitors referenced above were so keen to do whatever it takes to grab business away from KE. By 2008, my former sales manager GF and supposed friend RH who I gifted an entire business to him to begin his new career, unknowingly began selling the CA competitor's product under my name and customers called us complaining. I confronted them and learned they were not my trusted friends. In fact they used everything I taught them in sales, marketing to get their piece of the market pie at my expense. The new status quo with them and the CA competitor was to insult KE, and this became their method of operation ever since. The greed factor with GF/RH escalated to a new level in 2010 when they hired one of our longtime salesman to slander us publically in the forums and ultimately take more than 1.4 Million in sales from us, according to his deposition in Knox Chancery Court where he was deposed during the 2012 trial Keisler Engineering vs. Gene Charsha. During this trial, which the transcripts were written, GF took the stand and attempted to convince the judge that their business was substantially different than KE and that they were not a competitor. The judge did not agree with GF and ruled in our favor. But KE was saddled with over $30K in legal costs to fight this battle. Additionally a number of vendor relationships were further compromised as GF solicited some of KE's vendors to make the same product for his business, including propriety bellhousings and driveshafts components to name a few. Returning from the 2011 PRI trade show in Orlando FL, I had to go to one of my vendor's foundry and physically remove the Keisler owned Mopar big block bellhousing tooling that GF had them run parts for him. I recorded the conversation with this unscrupulous vendor and was just shocked to see how low some people will go. Indeed, KE's pockets were ripe to be picked by our competitors.

[AUTODYNAMICS]

In 2010, KE was blindsided by TREMEC Corp (a Mexico corporation with offices in Detroit area) when they suddenly terminated our Elite Distributorship Jan 17 2010 with no warning and no cure period. We less than six (6) weeks to purchase product to fill remaining orders only, could not purchase any additional inventory, and the termination was non-negotiable. In fact, this was illegal practice in Tennessee law, but in Michigan law where my Distributorship Agreement was in place, it was acceptable practice. This action was taken by Lee Davis, the Director of US Sales operations at the time. In a recorded phone call between Lee Davis and my business manager Bruce Skolfield, Davis disclosed that he was fulfilling his intentions to terminate KE - his largest distributor in the Aftermarket and one that sold more than Ford Motorsports - because of his dislike of me and that my former sales people-turned-competitors would eventually fill the loss of KE to the market. The Mexican top management in Mexico City did not really care about the Aftermarket branch because the volume was small compared to the OEM volume and they let Lee Davis and his people do whatever they wanted with the Aftermarket as long as the OEM was taken care of. Years earlier, Lee Davis, over dinner at SEMA Las Vegas in 2005 November in the presence of four others including the current Manager for Tremec Aftermarket Sales, said very clearly that he was "going to knocks the legs out from under Keisler Engineering if KE did not do business his way." This was a total shock, and for the ensuing hour I was lambasted over multiple issues ranging from Davis not liking the Keisler 5-speed name being better known than Tremec name in the classic car aftermarket. Other unfounded grievances were the Tremec logo I used on every web page representing his product should have been bigger, or higher up on the page, that he didn't like the dark background color of the my web-site. It was at that dinner that I decided to pursue the diversification of KE and to not have all of my eggs in one basket. In the May of 2006, I purchased General Motor's MUNCIE Transmission manufacturing line at a cost of 3.89 Million Dollars ($3,890,000.00) under a new company - American Gear & Transmission - and moved these assets to Tennessee to start-up a new company This move to start a new American transmission company in the wake of GM Muncie's closure sealed KE's fate of Davis' threats. When the termination of KE's Elite Distributorship when down March 1 2010, within a few days the manager of Tremec Aftermarket Sales issued a letter to all 150+ distributors of Tremec mandating them not to sell to KE at any price - even full retail - or their distributorship would be TERMINATED. A second letter was sent out to the same effect and I have both of these letters. I sought legal advise about this, and learned what Tremec Aftermarket Sales was doing appeared to be "Boycotting" which is a Federal Trade law violation carrying very stiff penalties and triple damages to the offended party. But I would have to file suit in Federal Court in Michigan and the case would be expensive and lengthy because of the way Federal lawsuits are processed. At that point in time, I decided to focus on survival of KE and not pursue the lawsuit at that time. Within a couple months, I led formation of Legend Gear & Transmission with the owners of Abundant Mfg. and brought them the transmission design and marketing which is now known as the LGT700 and the Legend Gear & Transmission company. KE found a work-around for the Tremec's boycotting, and product continued to flow from several several distributors that were wise to Federal trade laws. Even though Tremec implemented a "secret shopper" scheme in 2010/2011 in efforts to stop this American Entrepreur's small business, I continued to press on. I kept all of this under my hat, all the while my competitors were bragging to our customers that Tremec did this. I have tried to take "the high road" through the years and always do what is right for the customer, the employees vendors ahead of my personal needs. Accordingly, in the months before closure of KE, I had not drawn a salary or income from the company. My wife and I downsized in a major way, putting the home and farm we built for sale and moving to a small rental home.


The process of building KE from a garage operations in 1991 to a company that has sold more than $65 Million Dollars of product to over 16,000 customers has not been an easy one, but it has been a rewarding one. It is my hope and expectation that buyers for the remaining assets of KE will purchase these and put the assets back to work in new companies. In fact, I sold the Keisler PerfectFit kit & manufacturing assets for Tremec TKO & T56 to Liberty Gears - a Tremec Elite Distributor in Taylor Michigan. Liberty Gears - a family run business - has been around since the 1960s and has tremendous capabilities that complement what KE was doing for the market. By adding the highly engineered Keisler TKO and T56 kits to Liberty's existing capabilities for internal upgrades, the resulting product line further places Liberty in a class of their own. I plan to support Liberty Gears in their pursuits to offer the very best Tremec TKO & T56 kits to the market. In my efforts going forward, I intend to work with the Trustee of Keisler Engineering for the benefit of every creditor of Keisler Engineering - both its customers and vendors - that had open balances. This process will take time and patience on everyone's behalf. I ask for your support and patience while the Trustee and I work thru the Chapter 7 process. I understand the frustration that those of you with standing orders or supplier accounts with KE will have, and I am sorry that you must endure this. But please work with us and brighter days will be ahead.


Sincerely,


Shafi Keisler, Founder, President & CEO thru Jan 15 2014
Keisler Engineering, Inc.

[andrewb70]

Interesting read.

I have dealt with Liberty's Gear before and they are top notch.

Andrew

[dhutton]

Interesting read.

I have dealt with Liberty's Gear before and they are top notch.

Andrew

Interesting indeed. As someone who was taken for $1000 (I cancelled my order when they asked for the $4000 balance two months ahead of delivery of an off the shelf 4L60E transmission kit) I find it entertaining that he assumes no responsibility and in fact blames me and others for canceling our orders and avoiding further loss. Shafi needs to man up....

[badazz81z28]

Interesting indeed. As someone who was taken for $1000 (I cancelled my order when they asked for the $4000 balance two months ahead of delivery of an off the shelf 4L60E transmission kit) I find it entertaining that he assumes no responsibility and in fact blames me and others for canceling our orders and avoiding further loss. Shafi needs to man up....


I didn't realize that transmission was so much money. Is that you paid?

[MarkB]

I hate to see and hear what has happened to many people who believed in the Legend 5 speed transmission and were let down. As many know Keisler has announced voluntary chapter 7 Bankruptcy. This is sad to see and we wish the best to them. I pray that everyone who is involved comes out OK. We hate when anything like this happens in our industry.

I personally traveled to Legend Gear in North Carolina last Wednesday through Friday. I was unaware of the announcement that was made on Friday with Keisler. I went to educate myself of the product, the manufacturing process and the people behind the transmission. I have to say, the people are genuine great people, the facility is first class and the product is done right. For the amount of engineering, quality machining and gear grinding that is done here in the US as well as the assembly I am surprised that the cost is as affordable as it is. We drove a couple vehicles with the transmission installed and went through the manufacturing process. I have heard great things about the transmission but kept hearing horror stories on delivery. It didn't make much sense. So I wanted to check it out and see what was going on with this product. We felt that it could be a product that we could become part of and help alleviate some of the confusion. I am happy to report that the product is going to live on through this messy situation and I feel positive about the transmission. The transmissions do take about 8 - 10 weeks to go through the process as of now and they plan to have the wait time down later this summer.

After my trip, I am pleased with what I learned about the transmission. We came back with a mock up transmission to start refining kits for and will be installing a complete transmission in our Camaro for personal in house testing within the next 30 days. I hope to have new updates very soon.

Thank you.
Mark

[dhutton]

I didn't realize that transmission was so much money. Is that you paid?

It was a complete kit to install a 4l60E in a 68 440 Charger with no floor cutting using the stock shifter and console. They had the only kit I could find.

[Mr Nick]

It's too bad for his employees and for everyone on that list of creditors. The rest is just Karma.


DING DING DING, well said. When I was going thru the backorder fiasco on my RS600, I spoke with a few very nice people there. I felt like telling them to start looking for a new employer.

[Nicks67GTO]

I hate to see and hear what has happened to many people who believed in the Legend 5 speed transmission and were let down. As many know Keisler has announced voluntary chapter 7 Bankruptcy. This is sad to see and we wish the best to them. I pray that everyone who is involved comes out OK. We hate when anything like this happens in our industry.

I personally traveled to Legend Gear in North Carolina last Wednesday through Friday. I was unaware of the announcement that was made on Friday with Keisler. I went to educate myself of the product, the manufacturing process and the people behind the transmission. I have to say, the people are genuine great people, the facility is first class and the product is done right. For the amount of engineering, quality machining and gear grinding that is done here in the US as well as the assembly I am surprised that the cost is as affordable as it is. We drove a couple vehicles with the transmission installed and went through the manufacturing process. I have heard great things about the transmission but kept hearing horror stories on delivery. It didn't make much sense. So I wanted to check it out and see what was going on with this product. We felt that it could be a product that we could become part of and help alleviate some of the confusion. I am happy to report that the product is going to live on through this messy situation and I feel positive about the transmission. The transmissions do take about 8 - 10 weeks to go through the process as of now and they plan to have the wait time down later this summer.

After my trip, I am pleased with what I learned about the transmission. We came back with a mock up transmission to start refining kits for and will be installing a complete transmission in our Camaro for personal in house testing within the next 30 days. I hope to have new updates very soon.

Thank you.
Mark

So are you saying you'll be selling the SS700's later on this year?

[Rick Dorion]

A friend of mine received his tranny from Spraker in 8 weeks. I don't have any feedback yet on useage until Spring arrives !

[alocker]

Wow, it's hard to believe that so many people were out to get this guy Shafi. He is trying to blame ex business partners for tarnishing his reputation. I also suspect Legend changed their terms because Keisler was not paying, period.

[badazz81z28]

I'm sure there is more to the story we will never know.

[voice1000]

Default



I know 2 people with the SS700 they love them I will be putting one in my 69 Camaro with a Spraker Racing, at 877-273-6369 kit or visit www.sprakerracing.com Kit. The SS700 is a fantastic trans built by a great company in North Carolina. This company is an incredible manufacturing company with great people and moral people who run it. I believe they want to only put there customer first and make them happy. I am getting all through Spraker Racing, at 877-273-6369 or visit www.sprakerracing.com and am sure all will go well. Taking out a perfect 700R4 and all components and am looking forward to being a kid again banging gears. Well shifting gears anyway like when I drove my Camaro when I was 19 to 20 years old. By the way I spoke with one of the owners of Legend Gear they will stand behind any service needed on the SS700. They felt terrible for what happened to all the people who dealt with Keisler. Remember they designed and built this Transmission. Shafi Keisler made it look like he designed it and built it that's not the truth. The parent company of legend gear and transmission is Abundant Manufacturing. I will be driving down in February to meet them. After speaking with them on the phone I can't tell you how impressed I am with the people who own and run this company. Please make sure that you do not smear legend gear and transmission in the same breath as Keisler engineering. They really do not deserve it.

[Jon@bowlerperformance]

So are you saying you'll be selling the SS700's later on this year?

Nick,
We have full intention after our visit to Legend this last week, but since our name will be attached we are doing some product testing of our own, but I think its safe to say the testing will go great as anticipated and will be selling these transmissions in the very very near future...

[72BBSwinger]

So he didnt pay his bills to his suppliers, so they stopped supplying.....

[SEPAW]

The KE Ponzi scheme crumbles and it’s my fault because I didn’t let them keep my money longer???

[Nicks67GTO]

Nick,
We have full intention after our visit to Legend this last week, but since our name will be attached we are doing some product testing of our own, but I think its safe to say the testing will go great as anticipated and will be selling these transmissions in the very very near future...


Glad to see the whole program isnt going in the tank! Its such a sweet option for anyone that wants bulletproof bolt in and cant stand the thought of cutting up their old original sheetmetal.

[captainofiron]

a friend of mine waited nearly 2 years to get his TKO 600 from them. They kept telling him, this or that will ship in X weeks, then months would pass, and it would almost be out the door.

Im glad I never pulled the trigger with them.

I got a bad feelign about them when I was shopping around, they never responded to my request to update a quote that I had gotten from them a couple weeks later. I thought if they cant even answer me before they got my money, I cant imagine how they would be after I made the purchase.

Shafi got what he deserved, unfortunately he shafted alot of people who trusted his lies

[lzdick]

I haven't 'ground-up' a transmission in a while now, but it is always good to know where you can go for service/sales and trust the people you are dealing with. The 'King & Queen of Lawrenceville' (aka. Mark & Jessie) and their staff run a first class operation and they work with you for 100% satisfaction. With all that we've read on this thread...these are great people to know.

[davidk68]

Dang, and I was seriously considering getting a hydraulic clutch conversion from Keisler ...

[captainofiron]

Here is hoping that Tremec doesn't try to do with you what they attempted to do with Keisler.

Andrew

Im fairly certain that there is more to the "losing Tremec elite status" story than Shafti has let out.

Probably like with everything Keisler they didnt deliver what they promised and Tremec said see ya, especially with many other 5/6 speed conversion places popping up (and with better customer service/reputations)

[andrewb70]

Im fairly certain that there is more to the "losing Tremec elite status" story than Shafti has let out.

Probably like with everything Keisler they didnt deliver what they promised and Tremec said see ya, especially with many other 5/6 speed conversion places popping up (and with better customer service/reputations)

Maybe so...we will never really know.

Andrew

[dontlifttoshift]

I don't think Keisler lost their "elite" status until after they started promoting the T45/RS400/500/600 as being a being a better trans than the TKO.

[wayward]

Does anyone know if Keisler made the Hydraulic master conversion or did they just sell and market someone else's work?

[Bonehead]

Does anyone know if Keisler made the Hydraulic master conversion or did they just sell and market someone else's work?

That's what I'm hoping to find out also.

[mmosley]

Dang, and I was seriously considering getting a hydraulic clutch conversion from Keisler ...

It looked like it was just a Wilwood master. I'm sure dozen's of companies make a kit for '67-'69 Camaros.

Like this:
http://americanpowertrain.com/c-650074-shop-by-category-hydraulic-clutch-systems-gm-complete-kit.html

[Bonehead]

McLeod makes some kits, but not near what the Kiesler was.

http://www.mcleodracing.com/products/New+Products+for+2013.mcl

[Bonehead]

And then there is the kit from American Powertrain.

http://americanpowertrain.com/i-8521628-hydramax-hydraulic-clutch-actuator-system-for-magnum-ls-t56-viper-t56.html

[72BBSwinger]

It looked like it was just a Wilwood master. I'm sure dozen's of companies make a kit for '67-'69 Camaros.

Like this:
http://americanpowertrain.com/c-650074-shop-by-category-hydraulic-clutch-systems-gm-complete-kit.html
Yup, probably even find one at Autozone or Pepboys....

[MonzaRacer]

Guys, a word to the bashers and haters I have seen so many people pile on certain businesses that to say the least brought out some great ideas and designs, marketed well and gained some small foothold i transmission market of the performance world, ad all this by UPGRADING a stock offering in some cases to OUR needs.
Now I will tell you one thing, a friend of mine who decided to go to school after the Marines, became a tech at a shop. Due to his unique skills he got nod to build T5WC and other manual trans, he told me that HIS supplier of PARTS that were supposed to be drop shipped from TREMEC were always delayed, bad quality, etc. I just liked this to him and he pointed out that TREMEC doesnt like doing business unless they get large return. While the company is worldwide, it still has some odd ways of doing business.
As a friend found out when trying to work a deal with a Mexican company to rework old Ford 302/351 style "Mexican"blocks (Ford didnt care as they were still legal to sell too South America etc) but his idea was to reinforce them and upgrade the castings. Basically it would have been a 4 country "laundry" of the blocks to get them "legal" for US/Canada sales.
Cost per block was gonna be, for PRODUCTION, was in the $400-$600 range. The cost of the block to market was gonna run equal to or possibly more than World or others Ford part producers. and it could not say Ford, use Ford name in certain ways.
BUT the foundry company had greedy operators, some said tied to drug cartels etc. But the point is that in his getting them into contract was gonna cost so much under table money it was lost cause as that money could NOT be used on taxes as cost of doing business, IE undertable type money is what it was gonna be.
While some people may bash Shafi, use his name as curse word or even bring up Prodigy in same breath, yet many people forget if your business depends on OTHER parts manufacturers you are at certain disadvantage. Many people here have no clue the work, cash or stress involved with bringing things to this market. I talked to one of the gus involved in Dynacorn body process. Many bash those YET they are working on completely new cars, with zero rot, but NOT built on a production line with daily quality control like Ford/GM had. I saw one of the very first 64 1/2 Mustangs on a rotisserie and let me tell you the Ford initial fit/finish/alignment quality was SO bad that the guy was bitching he would rather fix a "Dyna body" over the pi__ poor Ford factory metal. Boss told him not to worry his paycheck was solid as he was salary worker, the time involved to FIX factory defects, etc to make a show car would come out of the owners pocket.
I do know from my tranny building friend that he said the supply/quality from TREMEC was barely passable, at times they had to tear down new trans to rework noisy gears from bad machine finishing, thing about bad differential whine in high gear stuff but from fresh tranny gears.
He started "blueprinting all parts to verify them, many came in with some sort of coating of some such, in TREMEC boxes it seemed like some sort of dry film break in coating. He had shims and other such parts he had to rework to properly fit.
He started sending some parts out to local (to him) metal conditioning company, they said the parts missed a finish step. Their fix was a tumble and shot peen and hand finish. THEN my friend Darrin would install them in trannys with no noise issues. His work is top notch and I believe him in his dread of having to order parts he doesnt have on shelf and lead time to FIX them. Some times he gets parts destined for OEM shelves ie part numbers in white boxes them bagged in plastic TREMEC bags, they have no surface imperfections weird coatings etc. BUT he does still get them refinished before install. His boss is ok with his fixing the parts as them seem to have lots of manual trans rebuilds (he does about 4 a day 4 days a week) he runs in each tranny now on an electric motor stand with a brake assembly behind it so he doesnt have comebacks.
His thoughts are they want complete units out back door to OEMS and could care less about parts needs when they need "fixed".
BUT think about it a little guy takes business out of one side of huge conglomerate, they see lost money rather than a way to exploit this new line. Not sure WHY TREMEC wouldnt want someone doing R&D, upgrades, specialty kits etc and for our side of business as they would move more product AND get good quality. I have yet to hear bad things about Shafi's actual products, just the lead time/parts hassle.
BUT slow down his ability to GET parts to work with, crimp his ability to produce sellable products and make his cash flow falter and then 50 people on this forum and others start using his name as an epithet.
I see lots of people pile on and this is NOT to defend Shafi completely, but I can see where the little guy gets hammered by a multinational company and it hurts his business, a contract gets dumped due to unfair practices and it doesnt hurt the big supplier it simply hurts the end guy.
AS for the people exiting from Shafi's business, yes I can say a friend was thinking of replacing a 700r4 in his 67 Nova and one of those posted by Shafi working for different business told some pretty bad things about him bashed the product etc.
My personal issue would be that if these guys used to work with Shafi, they should have kept their mouth shut. But then being a good person, keeping their mouth shut, sounds like from the court case, Shafi may just have been the guy shafted, and if he had 500 different stacks of things falling down, he just got overwhelmed in trying to fix it all.
I had high hopes when he took over the Muncie plant and stuff, and just hoped he had enough backing to keep going till he stay in business till it stayed established. Seems bigger fish hammered his plans him thinking he was in a fair fight.
I know a well known rearend company that nearly got sucked up in big fights, luckily he had foresight to separate from bad people/businesses and now is one of top names. all from small time rearend mod company I first heard of from 4wd magazines, now that brand is one top brands.
As for people getting runaround, I feel for you.
As for bashers, you all get knocked down on list a little, EVEN if you were ones hurt. Remember, you are just end guy many more up the line got hurt as well.
Guess seeing this from a different view makes me a sound like I am making excuses, not at all, end result, Shafi has to dig out. Sounds like he did as much as he could, he just didnt have the money to pour into it to make the big dog go away and let him do business.
Sucks cause the guy was doing good things. IF he was shafting people, the karma is on him, if he wasnt then hopefully the one doing the shafting gets the sharp pointy end.
Just my take and some things I know out.

[davidk68]

I liked that the Keisler kit had a cover for the clutch fork hole that the hydraulic lines went through. The American Powertrain kit does not appear to have this - at least it is not in the picture on their on-line store. Guess I need to look harder on the net....

[alocker]

They are easy to make. They used a standard Wilwood slave. This slave perfectly fits into a toilet paper tube. I made a template out of the tube and some card board and took it to my welder. It was less than $100. Then I used a quarter master throwout bearing. A few rod ends and aluminum shafts from Pegusus and It was done.

[Damn True]

I've moved posts related to the Legend transmission and the Bowler/Legend partnership to this thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/104549-Legend-LGT-700-and-Tremec-5-amp-6-speeds-Now-Available?p=1045581#post1045581

Please continue that discussion there.

Thanks.

[old66tiger]

My posts got deleted in the move.

[Damn True]

My posts got deleted in the move.

I'm sorry. I tried to change the order so the new thread made sense and a few dropped out.

[mmosley]

He started sending some parts out to local (to him) metal conditioning company, they said the parts missed a finish step. Their fix was a tumble and shot peen and hand finish. THEN my friend Darrin would install them in trannys with no noise issues. His work is top notch and I believe him in his dread of having to order parts he doesnt have on shelf and lead time to FIX them. Some times he gets parts destined for OEM shelves ie part numbers in white boxes them bagged in plastic TREMEC bags, they have no surface imperfections weird coatings etc. BUT he does still get them refinished before install. His boss is ok with his fixing the parts as them seem to have lots of manual trans rebuilds (he does about 4 a day 4 days a week) he runs in each tranny now on an electric motor stand with a brake assembly behind it so he doesnt have comebacks.

Lee - this is similar to what the Mopar guys experienced with some of the early Hemi crate motors. Many considered these early crate engines to just be a box of parts that needed to be torn down by a good builder, corrected, then re-assembled and preferably dyno tested... sounds about the same.

An OEM like GM has considerable leverage and can come down on Tremec like a ton of bricks and insist on certain quality standards. What is unfortunate is that many suppliers that feed the automotive giants do not have the same quality requirements for their "other" customers.

[wayward]

I agree, I'm in the process trying to mock up one that accomplishes the same with no additional firewall damage. (only because I've already painted my firewall). If I can make one that can be maintained or removed I'll post what i did and how i did it...

890488904989050


I liked that the Keisler kit had a cover for the clutch fork hole that the hydraulic lines went through. The American Powertrain kit does not appear to have this - at least it is not in the picture on their on-line store. Guess I need to look harder on the net....

[wfo guy]

What a mess. Without firsthand knowledge, it would be difficult to find the truth. I looked at the creditor list in the fileing. Lot of names I know. Sad deal.

[AUTODYNAMICS]

Guys, a word to the bashers and haters I have seen so many people pile on certain businesses that to say the least brought out some great ideas and designs, marketed well and gained some small foothold i transmission market of the performance world, ad all this by UPGRADING a stock offering in some cases to OUR needs.
Now I will tell you one thing, a friend of mine who decided to go to school after the Marines, became a tech at a shop. Due to his unique skills he got nod to build T5WC and other manual trans, he told me that HIS supplier of PARTS that were supposed to be drop shipped from TREMEC were always delayed, bad quality, etc. I just liked this to him and he pointed out that TREMEC doesnt like doing business unless they get large return. While the company is worldwide, it still has some odd ways of doing business.
As a friend found out when trying to work a deal with a Mexican company to rework old Ford 302/351 style "Mexican"blocks (Ford didnt care as they were still legal to sell too South America etc) but his idea was to reinforce them and upgrade the castings. Basically it would have been a 4 country "laundry" of the blocks to get them "legal" for US/Canada sales.
Cost per block was gonna be, for PRODUCTION, was in the $400-$600 range. The cost of the block to market was gonna run equal to or possibly more than World or others Ford part producers. and it could not say Ford, use Ford name in certain ways.
BUT the foundry company had greedy operators, some said tied to drug cartels etc. But the point is that in his getting them into contract was gonna cost so much under table money it was lost cause as that money could NOT be used on taxes as cost of doing business, IE undertable type money is what it was gonna be.
While some people may bash Shafi, use his name as curse word or even bring up Prodigy in same breath, yet many people forget if your business depends on OTHER parts manufacturers you are at certain disadvantage. Many people here have no clue the work, cash or stress involved with bringing things to this market. I talked to one of the gus involved in Dynacorn body process. Many bash those YET they are working on completely new cars, with zero rot, but NOT built on a production line with daily quality control like Ford/GM had. I saw one of the very first 64 1/2 Mustangs on a rotisserie and let me tell you the Ford initial fit/finish/alignment quality was SO bad that the guy was bitching he would rather fix a "Dyna body" over the pi__ poor Ford factory metal. Boss told him not to worry his paycheck was solid as he was salary worker, the time involved to FIX factory defects, etc to make a show car would come out of the owners pocket.
I do know from my tranny building friend that he said the supply/quality from TREMEC was barely passable, at times they had to tear down new trans to rework noisy gears from bad machine finishing, thing about bad differential whine in high gear stuff but from fresh tranny gears.
He started "blueprinting all parts to verify them, many came in with some sort of coating of some such, in TREMEC boxes it seemed like some sort of dry film break in coating. He had shims and other such parts he had to rework to properly fit.
He started sending some parts out to local (to him) metal conditioning company, they said the parts missed a finish step. Their fix was a tumble and shot peen and hand finish. THEN my friend Darrin would install them in trannys with no noise issues. His work is top notch and I believe him in his dread of having to order parts he doesnt have on shelf and lead time to FIX them. Some times he gets parts destined for OEM shelves ie part numbers in white boxes them bagged in plastic TREMEC bags, they have no surface imperfections weird coatings etc. BUT he does still get them refinished before install. His boss is ok with his fixing the parts as them seem to have lots of manual trans rebuilds (he does about 4 a day 4 days a week) he runs in each tranny now on an electric motor stand with a brake assembly behind it so he doesnt have comebacks.
His thoughts are they want complete units out back door to OEMS and could care less about parts needs when they need "fixed".
BUT think about it a little guy takes business out of one side of huge conglomerate, they see lost money rather than a way to exploit this new line. Not sure WHY TREMEC wouldnt want someone doing R&D, upgrades, specialty kits etc and for our side of business as they would move more product AND get good quality. I have yet to hear bad things about Shafi's actual products, just the lead time/parts hassle.
BUT slow down his ability to GET parts to work with, crimp his ability to produce sellable products and make his cash flow falter and then 50 people on this forum and others start using his name as an epithet.
I see lots of people pile on and this is NOT to defend Shafi completely, but I can see where the little guy gets hammered by a multinational company and it hurts his business, a contract gets dumped due to unfair practices and it doesnt hurt the big supplier it simply hurts the end guy.
AS for the people exiting from Shafi's business, yes I can say a friend was thinking of replacing a 700r4 in his 67 Nova and one of those posted by Shafi working for different business told some pretty bad things about him bashed the product etc.
My personal issue would be that if these guys used to work with Shafi, they should have kept their mouth shut. But then being a good person, keeping their mouth shut, sounds like from the court case, Shafi may just have been the guy shafted, and if he had 500 different stacks of things falling down, he just got overwhelmed in trying to fix it all.
I had high hopes when he took over the Muncie plant and stuff, and just hoped he had enough backing to keep going till he stay in business till it stayed established. Seems bigger fish hammered his plans him thinking he was in a fair fight.
I know a well known rearend company that nearly got sucked up in big fights, luckily he had foresight to separate from bad people/businesses and now is one of top names. all from small time rearend mod company I first heard of from 4wd magazines, now that brand is one top brands.
As for people getting runaround, I feel for you.
As for bashers, you all get knocked down on list a little, EVEN if you were ones hurt. Remember, you are just end guy many more up the line got hurt as well.
Guess seeing this from a different view makes me a sound like I am making excuses, not at all, end result, Shafi has to dig out. Sounds like he did as much as he could, he just didnt have the money to pour into it to make the big dog go away and let him do business.
Sucks cause the guy was doing good things. IF he was shafting people, the karma is on him, if he wasnt then hopefully the one doing the shafting gets the sharp pointy end.
Just my take and some things I know out.

perfectly said^

[Boatmark]

Don't know Keisler, and never did business with him. But I have been on that side of the fence (in another industry) and dealt with some of the same issues. It is often a case of staying alert and forecasting - you may want to re-order monthly and preserve cash, but have to tie up resources on components a year out just to protect your own production throughput. You may have to source from several vendors where you would like to use only one, you may have to make parts you would rather buy, and you may have to source parts and assemble in situations where you would rather buy the assembly. It stinks sometimes, it plays havoc with your costing and pricing, it ties up precious resources, but it is reality when you are the little guy.

Having said all that, and all of it being true, I know personally I (thankfully) hesitated in doing business with Keisler just from a gut reaction to what I percieved as his business practices and ethics. The worst thing you can do in business is hide. If I know it will take eight weeks to fill an order, I am likely to tell the customer it will be 8-10, and as SOON as I know different I pick up the phone and update the customer. People will deal with it, if they know about it. All I read about Keisler was stories of broken promises, no communication, unanswered calls, unresponded e-mails, etc. etc. - - - When communication stops, bad things are generally happening behind the scenes.

I truly hate to see anyone's business go down. But there is generally more to the story.

[bbcc]

I received an email from Keisler last night that laid out this story. After reading it I celebrated with a fist pump and a cheer! I see what some of you are saying, it wasn't entirely Shafi's fault that deadlines and ship dates got missed. But in my dealings with Keisler, they are the most unethical merchant I've done business with. My RS600 was delayed for a year, and I'm fine with that. I got over it once the trans was in my garage because I knew I waited for a great product that was exactly what I wanted. After having nothing but problems with it and multiple failures, I find out that it had none of the parts Keisler said was in it. It was chalk full of stock T-45 components. I'm glad no one else will have the opportunity to get burned by Keisler again, and my condolences go to those of you who got severely f**ked over by their Ch7 filing.

[medbali76]

Do you guys have any idea of who can fill up the gap for service parts for the RS transmission family? Especially for the RS600
I know there a few guys here also with the RS tranny.

[71RS/SS396]

Do you guys have any idea of who can fill up the gap for service parts for the RS transmission family? Especially for the RS600
I know there a few guys here also with the RS tranny.

Possibly Bowler http://bowlertransmissions.com/

[medbali76]

Possibly Bowler http://bowlertransmissions.com/

I have sent them a message but no any reply. However it would be very good...

[bbcc]

Do you guys have any idea of who can fill up the gap for service parts for the RS transmission family? Especially for the RS600
I know there a few guys here also with the RS tranny.

Contact Zak at the t45 source (http://www.thet45source.com/). Great guy with good products and he's always willing to help with technical questions. It's where I purchased my billet components to replace the factory cast Ford parts Keisler installed in my RS600.

I should validate the above by saying the RS series is based off of the Tremec t45 with Keislers' custom gear-set and front bearing support/adapter plate.

[Jon@bowlerperformance]

give us a call anytime or email me directly... i keep my phone on 247 and all emails get bumped to my phone

[voice1000]

I just returned from North Carolina a trip to Legend Gear and Transmission/Abundant Engineering. What I seen there was remarkable, both the equipment, product and people. While there I saw SS 700 transmission's 2 or 3 of them that were being repaired at no cost to the customer that were assembled and sold by Keisler Automotive. There was no charge to any customer the owners could not emphasize strongly enough that they would stand by any transmission that they built or was sold by Keisler through the entire time period of the guarantee. I've said this in the thread before. These people are honest and ethical and moral. And no one has to worry about will they be around tomorrow. The complex that they fabricate in is extremely large. They are also not just locked their success in their business to the SS 700 although they treated it like that. The company is multifaceted producing different gearing and products from large earthmovers to wind turbines I was blown away by the operation. Please do not link this company in any way shape matter of form to the failure of Keisler or the way they ran their business. Legend only wishes to be the manufacturer and not a distributor of the transmissions. in this way they can apply all of their resources to research and development and production. I also visited Spraker Racing one of their distributors and also was totally impressed with their operations and business ethics. Myself and my wife were treated like family and shown the entire operation and then they were kind enough to take us to Detroit speed and engineering for a tour of their facility. I can say firsthand the SS 700 transmission and the people who build it are the best in the industry. When people like Detroit speed and engineering and Spraker Racing are purchasing this product for some of their restorations and their racecars with all of the different transmissions out there you know this transmission is a workhorse. Remember I'm telling you this firsthand. I've seen the operation I sat down with people. All of these people from Kevin the owner, to Jack the plant manager and all of the people down the line are committed in my opinion to the success of your build with their transmission. One other thing that I seen that to me is of great importance. I did not see one employee there who was not happy at his job or her job. There was also a woman there by the name of Laura who was running one of the larger computerized machines grinding finished tears. My wife couldn't help nudging me saying see it takes a woman with great attention and care to make the gears in your transmission work.
I hope this thread gets around, it bothers me greatly that people compare or link legend gear and transmission's operations to the way Keisler ran his business.

God bless and be well
Gregory Bergamaschi

[tnsong]

I ordered a TKO 600 elite kit for my 66 chevelle and waited weeks and nothing .finally talked to the company that is taking over there orders and they said they had my order but it would be a few more weeks.this really does suck.