DSE fuel injection tank vs Aeromotive Phantom w/ stock tank

[sixgunsuperman99]

As I'm going down the checklist of swapping an LQ4 into my 72 Nova, I'm finding out that everyone was right about a) the supporting parts will cost double the amount of a used motor and b) it's going to be probably twice expensive as you originally plan. [/venting to people who can appreciate that statement]

I'm trying to stick to a fairly budget build, but am trying to keep my compromises to a minimum. I've waited 20 years to build this car and I don't want to skimp out on one area that's going to come back and bite me for being cheap. I don't have any crazy plans for the car other than I want it to be just as capable as my 99 z28. I want to be able to daily drive, carve up the mountains, road trip, and be able to do the occasional autocross with minimal fuss and/or concerns, problems, or breakdowns. Power will probably never get over 500hp, and will just be bolt on LQ4 power while the money tree replenishes.

I'm about to tear my hair out trying to figure out what fuel system to go with. I have ruled out the easiest (?) option of an external in-line pump as I have read too many stories on here and LS1tech about having to constantly have a full gas tank to avoid starvation issues. If I'm wrong on that, please change my mind, but I'm currently scared I'll starve the engine doing simple things like matting it from a stop light or hitting a highway on ramp while I'm under a half tank. I don't want to fill my car up every half tank just to enjoy it.

This leaves me currently comparing the Aeromotive Phantom and the DSE stainless fuel injection tank. I cannot seem to find any reviews of either of these tanks on this website. I found a few older DSE threads, but this sounds to be a different tank. I spoke with Aeromotive on the phone earlier today and told them my intentions with the car, and the rep I spoke with didn't sound too confident that the Phantom would be a great fit and that I'd still run into having to have a 1/2 tank of gas at all times, but I really want to find someone who has this system in their car as I don't love the idea of stepping up to the DSE tank (just over double the $$$).

Can anyone help point me in one direction or the other? Does anyone have either of these systems? There's got to be a Camaro guy out there with one of the DSE tanks?

Aeromotive Phantom
http://aeromotiveinc.com/2012/11/phantom-fuel-system/

DSE tank
http://www.detroitspeed.com/1968-1974-X-Body-products/080107-fuel-tanks.html#

[ChevelleNV]

don't beat yourself up on this, bite the bullet and buy a ricks/vaporworks tank. its not much more than the DSE tank and has remote pickups so you wont ever have a starvation issue. I know the tanks are expensive, but you will never have to worry about it.....plus it uses a GM pump that can be easily sourced at a GM dealer if it were to ever go out

[sixgunsuperman99]

don't beat yourself up on this, bite the bullet and buy a ricks/vaporworks tank. its not much more than the DSE tank and has remote pickups so you wont ever have a starvation issue. I know the tanks are expensive, but you will never have to worry about it.....plus it uses a GM pump that can be easily sourced at a GM dealer if it were to ever go out

I was afraid that was going to be the first response... I do love the fact it uses a GM pump though. I'm sold on the entire idea of the Vaporworx tank, until I get to the price. I just got off the phone with Vaporworx and they mentioned that I'm going to have issues running a truck intake due to the fact that the tank is set up for a return less system and the truck has a return. Does anyone know an easy way to convert the truck fuel rails/intake manifold to return less style? Apparently I'm the first person putting a junk yard LQ motor in and contemplating putting in a gas tank that costs 3x as much as the motor did...

Any body out there with input on the DSE or Phantom set ups?

[Schwartz Performance]

The phantom is great. What about using a Tanks Inc fuel injected tank setup? We've had good luck with that and minimal starvation issues. Same goes for the Phantom.

-Dale

[Typhoon1015]

get a baffled tank from rock auto with a intank pump, replace with walbro 255 or similar and run fuel line/return line. you can use the stock truck rails and regulator. That would be the cheapest setup that would work sufficiently.

I went even cheaper and ran a sump kit with a external pump. I only have issues below 1/4 tank due to no baffles in the stock tank.

[sixgunsuperman99]

The phantom is great. What about using a Tanks Inc fuel injected tank setup? We've had good luck with that and minimal starvation issues. Same goes for the Phantom.

-Dale

Dale,

That's good to hear some backing of the Phantom. Do you have any cars built using the Phantom that auto cross? Tanks Inc does not make an efi tank for a Nova unfortunately. Unless you have availability to some, I cannot find that setup anywhere. I'd love to hear more about the conversions you've done using either of those.




get a baffled tank from rock auto with a intank pump, replace with walbro 255 or similar and run fuel line/return line. you can use the stock truck rails and regulator. That would be the cheapest setup that would work sufficiently.

I went even cheaper and ran a sump kit with a external pump. I only have issues below 1/4 tank due to no baffles in the stock tank.

I can't find one from Rock Auto for a Nova that's EFI ready. There are tons available for Camaro and most other GM models, but nothing for the 3rd gen X body.

[badazz81z28]

don't beat yourself up on this, bite the bullet and buy a ricks/vaporworks tank. its not much more than the DSE tank and has remote pickups so you wont ever have a starvation issue. I know the tanks are expensive, but you will never have to worry about it.....plus it uses a GM pump that can be easily sourced at a GM dealer if it were to ever go out


I agree, the tanks are top notch.

[sixgunsuperman99]

I agree, the tanks are top notch.


Have you had any issues with yours at all? Do you have any pictures of what it looks like installed in the car from the rear? (maybe a weird question, depending on how it looks... just curious if it looks out of place and hangs down super low).

Anybody else have anything to weigh in with? I'm surprised by the lack of response on the DSE tanks and Phantom setups.

[Bad94]

I have a ricks tank with vaporworks dual pick up. I can run the car with less then 5gal of gas on a autox and not have any problem.

If you search my name, my build thread has pics of the tank.

[CarlC]

Sorry I missed this thread guys.

The DSE "Supertanks" use VaporWorx products and technologies. Both DSE and Rick's make great products, but a conversation with both of them may help you decide what would be the better route to take.

I do not like to disparage competitors on-line, but do take a close look at how the Phantom is sealed to the top of the tank. Also, if the OE's could figure out a way to make something cheaper and better than a fuel module, they would be the first to do it. Compared to any aftermarket company, GM's design and engineering departments has pockets that are far wider and deeper.

[sixgunsuperman99]

I have a ricks tank with vaporworks dual pick up. I can run the car with less then 5gal of gas on a autox and not have any problem.

If you search my name, my build thread has pics of the tank.

Bad,

LOVE your car - amazing. How noticeable is the gas tank while it's on the ground? It looks like it hangs quite a bit lower than the stock tank?

I hope you don't mind, but here are the pictures I was looking at:

8869588696



Sorry I missed this thread guys.

The DSE "Supertanks" use VaporWorx products and technologies. Both DSE and Rick's make great products, but a conversation with both of them may help you decide what would be the better route to take.

I do not like to disparage competitors on-line, but do take a close look at how the Phantom is sealed to the top of the tank. Also, if the OE's could figure out a way to make something cheaper and better than a fuel module, they would be the first to do it. Compared to any aftermarket company, GM's design and engineering departments has pockets that are far wider and deeper.

Carl,

I had started an email thread with you a little bit earlier this week and was the one waiting on pictures. I had actually been looking at DSE's non-super EFI tanks, as they a bit cheaper than the Rick's and weren't quite as much of a stretch on the budget. I can't seem to find much on those non-super tanks...

Thank you for all responses so far.

[sixgunsuperman99]

The phantom is great. What about using a Tanks Inc fuel injected tank setup? We've had good luck with that and minimal starvation issues. Same goes for the Phantom.

-Dale

So to my surprise, it turns out that yesterday Tanks Inc announced they would be producing EFI ready gas tanks for the Nova's like they have been for the first gen Camaro's.

With that being said, this is turning into a Vaporworx vs Tanks Inc decision. I know the Vaporworx is the best of the best, and you get what you pay for... but do I NEED that? The $1000 difference in tanks is my front brake setup! I obviously haven't decided yet, but it's nice to have another option thrown in there.

I'm off to search and read everything I can about the first gen guys and the Tanks Inc setups now... please leave feedback if you have any on that setup!

http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=437/category_id=144/home_id=143/mode=prod/prd437.htm

[rennat_2006]

Im in the same battle as you are with my 71 nova also getting a lq4. Mine is getting a cam, heads, car intake, etc put on it though. Probably going to go with the tanksinc setup when it comes out also, I just hope it doenst get pushed back any further!

[reedld]

How about the OEM gm fuel bucket mounted either with vetteworks or homemade mount?
Not nearly as fancy as Ricks, but simple..reliable...cheap(er)

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

I'm surprised that Aeromotive wasn't too sure about their Phantom setup. I was at their booth at SEMA last November talking to them for a bit. They had a demo where the tank was about 1/4 full I believe. They tilted the tank to the side, basically starting the module sock assembly, and I think it was about 30 seconds till we saw the fuel pressure gauge start to flicker. Granted some of that fuel may have been from the return, but still, the guy sold me on it being great for a car that is driven hard. We'll see, for $450 I'm going to try it on the 67 Camaro I'm putting an LT1 in a few months from now. Seems like a very cost effective solution if it works.

[sixgunsuperman99]

I'm surprised that Aeromotive wasn't too sure about their Phantom setup. I was at their booth at SEMA last November talking to them for a bit. They had a demo where the tank was about 1/4 full I believe. They tilted the tank to the side, basically starting the module sock assembly, and I think it was about 30 seconds till we saw the fuel pressure gauge start to flicker. Granted some of that fuel may have been from the return, but still, the guy sold me on it being great for a car that is driven hard. We'll see, for $450 I'm going to try it on the 67 Camaro I'm putting an LT1 in a few months from now. Seems like a very cost effective solution if it works.

I was kind of surprised/disappointed myself, but, I'd rather them tell if they have doubts instead of trying to just pick a sale by blowing smoke at me. I think my plan is to go for the Tanks Inc setup and see what happens. I'm pretty sure aeromotive makes a setup for your car that uses a tanks inc tank with their pump system.

[69NovaDude]

Phil, how did the Tanks Inc tank work for you? I'm getting ready for a Sniper EFI install, and trying to decide between Tanks Inc and the new Aeromotive Gen 2 Stealth tank with a Phantom fuel pump.

[badazz81z28]

Bad,

LOVE your car - amazing. How noticeable is the gas tank while it's on the ground? It looks like it hangs quite a bit lower than the stock tank?

I hope you don't mind, but here are the pictures I was looking at:

8869588696




Carl,

I had started an email thread with you a little bit earlier this week and was the one waiting on pictures. I had actually been looking at DSE's non-super EFI tanks, as they a bit cheaper than the Rick's and weren't quite as much of a stretch on the budget. I can't seem to find much on those non-super tanks...

Thank you for all responses so far.


The super tank is a vaporworks style tank, based on the pictures I saw the quality is not as good as Ricks. However Ricks also makes a tank that used a Walbro pump just like DSEs cheaper tank. Regardless of the style, DSE and Ricks seems to be in the same cost ball park. Since Rick specialized in tanks, they get my vote. Both have outstanding customer service,

i wouldnt even consider those other companies....

[sixgunsuperman99]

Phil, how did the Tanks Inc tank work for you? I'm getting ready for a Sniper EFI install, and trying to decide between Tanks Inc and the new Aeromotive Gen 2 Stealth tank with a Phantom fuel pump.


It's.. fine. You can tell the gas sloshes around quite a bit in the tank as the gas gauge will swing by close to 1/2 (1/4 tank up to 1/4 tank down) tank if you get on either the brakes or gas hard. I typically don't run it below 1/4 tank as a result. I had to replace the fuel pump I got as part of the Tanks setup this summer as mine burned up. That said, I think that was a result of fuel pump relay issues I was having that caused the pump to short out rather than the tank killing it. My first pump was quite a bit noisier than the second so I'm not sure if I just got a bad pump or not, but again, I think that was the pump and not the tank. The Tanks setup works just fine for driving around town and cruising on the highway (what I do). If you want a hardcore performance option I'd look elsewhere.

It's been a few years since I've kept up with available options but I remember Rick's released a non-stainless, every-man version of their setup a few years back that was in the $800-ish range. If I were to do it again with that option available I'd spend a few more bucks and go that route instead. I'm sure the scene has changed since I put my car together. As with everything, mine's not bad, but I could do it better with what I know now and what's become available since my build!

[another69]

I love Aeromotive stuff so I used their tank & FPSC. Long story short I now have a Rick's / Vaporworx. I would never again consider a stock style stamped tank in a FI application.

[69NovaDude]

It's.. fine. You can tell the gas sloshes around quite a bit in the tank as the gas gauge will swing by close to 1/2 (1/4 tank up to 1/4 tank down) tank if you get on either the brakes or gas hard. I typically don't run it below 1/4 tank as a result. I had to replace the fuel pump I got as part of the Tanks setup this summer as mine burned up. That said, I think that was a result of fuel pump relay issues I was having that caused the pump to short out rather than the tank killing it. My first pump was quite a bit noisier than the second so I'm not sure if I just got a bad pump or not, but again, I think that was the pump and not the tank. The Tanks setup works just fine for driving around town and cruising on the highway (what I do). If you want a hardcore performance option I'd look elsewhere.

It's been a few years since I've kept up with available options but I remember Rick's released a non-stainless, every-man version of their setup a few years back that was in the $800-ish range. If I were to do it again with that option available I'd spend a few more bucks and go that route instead. I'm sure the scene has changed since I put my car together. As with everything, mine's not bad, but I could do it better with what I know now and what's become available since my build!

So it's the fuel sender slosh that drives you to keep it 1/4 tank or more, or have you actually run in to fuel starvation issues with the engine?

I'm not planning on doing a lot of autocross, maybe once in a while for fun, mostly cruising, test and tune at the drags, and taking some hard corners on the back roads. I mostly want the be able to drive the car however I want down to below quarter tank and not worry about the pickup coming uncovered.

[badazz81z28]

So it's the fuel sender slosh that drives you to keep it 1/4 tank or more, or have you actually run in to fuel starvation issues with the engine?

I'm not planning on doing a lot of autocross, maybe once in a while for fun, mostly cruising, test and tune at the drags, and taking some hard corners on the back roads. I mostly want the be able to drive the car however I want down to below quarter tank and not worry about the pickup coming uncovered.

You’ll have issues if the pump doesn’t have a baffle around it. With the new modules buckets you don’t need baffles and you are even better with the corner pick ups. I highly reccomend a vaporworks style tank even if you don’t Autocross.

[CarlC]

I love Aeromotive stuff so I used their tank & FPSC. Long story short I now have a Rick's / Vaporworx. I would never again consider a stock style stamped tank in a FI application.

The "stock" style Rick's RestoMod tanks are fine since they use the GM fuel module design for CTS-V or Gen5 pumps.

[cleancutgearhead]

Hello,

I have an Aeromotive (Nova) Tank in my '69 Camaro (approx. 425 RWHP). I simply didn't have the money for a higher end tank that ranges from $1500. - $3000. depending on where you buy. So I did my homework and found out that a Nova Tank would fit with my DSE lowering springs and relocating shackles that I have installed in my Camaro. I really like the tamk and have no regrets. Do note, that Aeromotive's $500. tank looks like it has a more "high end" pump in it than it does (don't be fooled by the top/external cap that you see. But please know that the pump does work extremely well and I have had NO issues. Just to clarify for those out there that are going to call BS on my Nova/Camaro tank..... I notched the rear corners for the shackles and replaced the filler tube with the one off of my Camaro tank (it was the overall width that I was after). I will say that the more expensive tank is probably a nicer tank overall but the Aeromotive tank bolts in, hooks up, and is very effective. Hope this helps.

[oldstv]

I installed a Tanks Inc tank in my 70 Buick GS. The tank works like a champ until i go wot from down low, I then have fuel pressure issues. I know it is the tank because I installed the old one that I was using with an inline pump. Fuel pressure remained solid with the old tank.

[badazz81z28]

Hello,

I have an Aeromotive (Nova) Tank in my '69 Camaro (approx. 425 RWHP). I simply didn't have the money for a higher end tank that ranges from $1500. - $3000. depending on where you buy. So I did my homework and found out that a Nova Tank would fit with my DSE lowering springs and relocating shackles that I have installed in my Camaro. I really like the tamk and have no regrets. Do note, that Aeromotive's $500. tank looks like it has a more "high end" pump in it than it does (don't be fooled by the top/external cap that you see. But please know that the pump does work extremely well and I have had NO issues. Just to clarify for those out there that are going to call BS on my Nova/Camaro tank..... I notched the rear corners for the shackles and replaced the filler tube with the one off of my Camaro tank (it was the overall width that I was after). I will say that the more expensive tank is probably a nicer tank overall but the Aeromotive tank bolts in, hooks up, and is very effective. Hope this helps.

A custom tank shouldn’t cost you $3k! With a 425 horsepower engine you don’t even need a high end pump. A Ricks tank only runs around $1k-$1250. It’s the $200-300 pump that increases the overall cost. I will tell you that investment in a project is well worth it. The modern pumps will last a long time and the tank won’t rust along with perfect fitment. Saving a few hundred is not worth fretting over to me.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rhr-3091

[67CamaroLSX]

In the same boat. Really wanted the Rick's restomod tank for my 67 Camaro, I called Ricks and was told there out of stock until early spring. I'm wanting to use a 5th gen Camaro fuel pump so I'm kind of limited. Like the Vaporworx tank, just wasn't wanting to spend that kind of money. Wish someone else would make a tank that would except the 5th gen fuel pump.

[rickpaw]

In the same boat. Really wanted the Rick's restomod tank for my 67 Camaro, I called Ricks and was told there out of stock until early spring. I'm wanting to use a 5th gen Camaro fuel pump so I'm kind of limited. Like the Vaporworx tank, just wasn't wanting to spend that kind of money. Wish someone else would make a tank that would except the 5th gen fuel pump.

I think someone sells an adapter ring that you weld to the tank, and allows you to use the 5-gen pump module.

[dhutton]

This adapter bolts in. I am using one in my 56 Cameo along with corner pickups.

https://rickstanks.com/product/bolt-in/

Don

[badazz81z28]

In the same boat. Really wanted the Rick's restomod tank for my 67 Camaro, I called Ricks and was told there out of stock until early spring. I'm wanting to use a 5th gen Camaro fuel pump so I'm kind of limited. Like the Vaporworx tank, just wasn't wanting to spend that kind of money. Wish someone else would make a tank that would except the 5th gen fuel pump.

Are you looking for a tank immediately? I would hold out for the Restomod tank. You have a first gen, that’s big money and don’t want to spend $1500 on a vaporworks tank? I have bought two of them, well worth the money.

[nicks67camaro]

The restomod tank being out of stock till next year kinda was a bummer for me. I was buying parts based on when I need each one and went to buy the tank and no deal......I ended up buying a Rock Valley tank with the CTS-V setup. It was the same money as the Ricks but i was pretty turned off that not one person in the Ricks supply chain new this out of stock was coming and tried 3 places to buy before finding out they are out of stock until next year. In the scheme of these builds it was an oh well just spend the money moment for me.

[67CamaroLSX]

I was told they are waiting on some of the other restomod tanks from the chevelle, nova and others run out so they can make all these other tanks together. That way they get a better price from the vendor. I wish they would just make a run of them for the camaro. They are obviously losing business from being out of stock so long. Not everyone is going to wait til next spring for a tank.

[CarlC]

If a Rick's or Rock Valley fabricated tank can be found used one of these can be added to mount the GM fuel module. In most cases the Gen5 SS or Gen2 CTS-V module must be used since most of the non-fuel module tanks are not deep enough to accept the ZL1.

This is how the second tank in the proof of concept stage was made for the VaporWorx series of classic chassis products.

https://www.vaporworx.com/product/rwtak/

[Rich G]

If you are looking for a Ricks stainless fuel injection tank I have a brand new that I will sell contact me if interested 989-763-8563 call or text for details.