Would You Pay For This?

[71RS/SS396]

I didn't want to clutter up Bill Howell's thread so I'm starting this one.
Some of you know my family owns Jet Hot and we put on some auto-x driving schools at most of the ASCS events, it can be expensive for us to do depending on who we have to get for instructors, but we feel it's important for people to understand what they are doing out there and what they should be looking at on their cars. With that being said and with Bill wanting to increase safety would you guys be willing pony up the extra money above the entry fee to take classes at the events for road course instruction? It can cost $500-$1,000 plus expenses for an instructor per day, so with several instructors at an event I could see it costing as much as a few hundred per person to do this depending on how many sign up for it. We haven't discussed this amongst ourselves or with ASCS yet so I don't want anyone assuming we are doing this yet but I would like feedback to make the decision to move forward or not.
I don't want to speak for Bill but my sense is, you are going to have to prove your driving skills/training before you're going to be allowed on the track solo at full speed so we might as well accept the fact that that's the way it's going to be.

[dontlifttoshift]

Yep.

[BMR Sales]

All the Programs I Instruct at have Classroom Sessions and then have right seat Instructors on Track. Drivers (students) don't advance to Solo until they have completed at least 6 Weekends and get approved by a Senior Instructor (which usually falls to myself or other qualified Instructors)

Didn't know your family Owns Jet-Hot, but it reminded me I need to send a set of Headers Off to get done!

T.C.

[sccacuda]

I'm in. I've learned more from proper instruction in a 4 hour session than 4 years of thinking I knew what I was doing. The key is GOOD instructors. Their are great drivers who suck at instruction and great instructors who suck at driving. Trying to find one that can do both is challenging and expensive, but worth every penny. Anytime I get the opportunity to ride with a pro, I jump on it. Having one coach from the right seat is priceless!

[rchaskin]

Can I teach throttle management? :drive1:

[71RS/SS396]

Can I teach throttle management? :drive1:
You mean lack thereof! :revto9k:

[juniorjohnson]

I'm in.... :-)

[juniorjohnson]

Can I teach throttle management? :drive1:

Randy, we need to work on that with you bud. LOL!

[71RS/SS396]

I'm in.... :-)

I know you are Mike and we're all fortunate to have you as part of the community.

[protouring70]

Hey Tim... I would be interested as my truck gets closer to being done. Plus the introduction to driving we talked about for my daughter.

[silvermonte]

I think this is a great idea. I would also hope that once a person has logged enough time with an instructor that it would let you go out on a track with a properly set up car. Its a shame that the RTTx events will be taking away the track portion, but I fully agree with why they are doing it and I hope that something gets put into place to allow the people that are ready to get on the track the chance to do that.

[71RS/SS396]

Hey Tim... I would be interested as my truck gets closer to being done. Plus the introduction to driving we talked about for my daughter.

Brent the man you want to talk to about your daughter is Junior Johnson.

[71RS/SS396]

I think this is a great idea. I would also hope that once a person has logged enough time with an instructor that it would let you go out on a track with a properly set up car. Its a shame that the RTTx events will be taking away the track portion, but I fully agree with why they are doing it and I hope that something gets put into place to allow the people that are ready to get on the track the chance to do that.
I don't think the RTTX events are taking away the road course, they are just going to make sure everyone is up to par in driver ability and safety.

[howehot]

I've attended your autox class and recommend it to everyone who ask about getting some training. I will sign up for more but I'm not sure how many will spend the extra cash if required on and above the regular entry fee. When a weekend event runs $350ish, they aren't gaining track time with the class and some will balk at the cost vs track time.

My wish is for some road course instruction. I've been on three different tracks and honestly they intimidate the hell out of me because I know the Monte is a lot more capable than the driver and could get in over my head in a hurry. With this In mind I limit my speed and use a large brake zone. There was a big eye opener and the Optima Faceoff when a car crashed hard on the first practice lap. Still I have a ball at every event.

[rchaskin]

Randy, we need to work on that with you bud. LOL!

Looking forward to it.......

[71RS/SS396]

I've attended your autox class and recommend it to everyone who ask about getting some training. I will sign up for more but I'm not sure how many will spend the extra cash if required on and above the regular entry fee. When a weekend event runs $350ish, they aren't gaining track time with the class and some will balk at the cost vs track time.

My wish is for some road course instruction. I've been on three different tracks and honestly they intimidate the hell out of me because I know the Monte is a lot more capable than the driver and could get in over my head in a hurry. With this In mind I limit my speed and use a large brake zone. There was a big eye opener and the Optima Faceoff when a car crashed hard on the first practice lap. Still I have a ball at every event.

Proof of road course knowledge/experience at some of these events is going to become a reality we are all going to have to live with whether it be on your own or through event sponsored training. I think the event sponsored route is going to be the most economical way to do it but I could be wrong.

[GeoffP]

Tim as I said when we talked at Charlotte Good Guys, I'm up for any training finances allowing. However, I will be at any event that has auto crossing as well as a road course (or not) and won't be disappointed if I'm told I can't get out on the road course due to lack of experience/training. I'm doing this for the fun of it and hope to learn lots along the way. After this year's RTTH, I already know I'm not driving my car to it's potential thanks to Brian Clark's excellent driving skills!

Randy - we all enjoy the show you put on! :)

[Kenova]

If I ever manage to get to one of these events I would certainly be interested in a some expert instruction.




Especially if Mary is instructing us on proper vocabulary.:wrc:

Ken

[Bill Howell]

I've attended your autox class and recommend it to everyone who ask about getting some training. I will sign up for more but I'm not sure how many will spend the extra cash if required on and above the regular entry fee. When a weekend event runs $350ish, they aren't gaining track time with the class and some will balk at the cost vs track time.

My wish is for some road course instruction. I've been on three different tracks and honestly they intimidate the hell out of me because I know the Monte is a lot more capable than the driver and could get in over my head in a hurry. With this In mind I limit my speed and use a large brake zone. There was a big eye opener and the Optima Faceoff when a car crashed hard on the first practice lap. Still I have a ball at every event.
Hey Dan, I don't want to engage in this thread too much because I like reading the comments posted. I will address yours though because I think it brings up a great point. I can only speak for ASCS, and as you well know we are in the process of restructuring our road course program or dropping it all together. That in mind, let me say this about people that will not be willing to "pay to play" or resist instruction based on price. I have never understood how many in our hobby will spend countless thousands of dollars building a very expensive ride, then pretend they don't need any attention paid to the most important performance element of their new toy- The loose nut between the steering wheel and driver seat. It has been proven over and over again that is the best and cheapest way to make your car and self faster. To anyone that feels it just isn't worth the money to at least get a weekend or two of instruction or doesn't understand the importance of some instruction before being turned loose on a track, with more car than talent, well... that probably isn't the participant we are looking for. Part of this experience we call events has to be learning. OK, back to the sidelines on this one for me.

[TheJDMan]

I am most definately interested.

[So Cal Camaro]

Tim, I'd be in for instruction, never hurts to get some more guidance...I've done your autocross schools at two different events and always pick up something new from the instructors...another set of eyes to help make sure I'm getting car in the right position on the course. Thanks for running the autocross schools at events, they are definitely worth participating in...

[Jchinn6]

Think it is a great idea and would be interested in as many as I can get too.

[David Pozzi]

The best advice I got early on was, "Invest in yourself". Cars will come & go, but investing in driving lessons will pay off for a lifetime. When I went vintage racing, I went to two driving schools. I figure it saved me more money than the schools cost.

[Todd in Vancouver]

Agree 110% on getting driver training and the reality is it's the best spent money to get faster lap times. I've taken 3 training classes this year and all I can say is WOW what a blast learning how to do it right. The best part was when the instructor that was working with my wife and I took her 4 door, 4 cylinder Nissan Altima and showed us a this is how it's done lap. He was faster than the guy with the muscle car, the Porsche and a lot of the other Super Fast whizz mobiles. People just don't realize it's more about the driver than the car, this just ain't drag racing.

Anyway back to the topic, I've paid anywhere from $200- $350ea for track day training and that included lunch. Funny enough the best class for me was the cheapest one at $200 with the local BMW club because to your point it was the great trainiers that made the day.

[DesertFox]

I'd be happy to pony up the cash. It would be fairly insignificant in comparison to what's been put into the car (and in most cases the gas to get there), plus I walk away getting something that I would have been happy to pay for all by itself without the added benefit of having an event to participate in as well.

[vintageracer]

$200-$300 is CHEAP to get professional driving instruction at an event. The best money you will spend that event weekend!

I continue to be AMAZED at the number of boys that will spend $3,000 IN MINUTE on a set of heads, other engine mods or suspension mods yet think $3,000 is WAY TO MUCH MONEY TO INVEST IN THEMSELVES by attending a first class driving school.

If reducing lap times is your goal by spending money on your car rest assured that your lap times will DROP far more significantly by spending your money on yourself learning to drive rather than ANY $3,000 upgrade you can make to your car! This ain't Drag Racing where HP makes more of a difference.

Investing in a driving school not only gives you additional knowledge but also improves your skills and that's what is most important!

Certainly any driving school instruction from a competent instructor in the type of racing in which you want to participate is great and for most everyone is needed. One driving school does not make you a Mario Andretti!

The skills for autocross are certainly different from those at an Open Track event and then again different when running high speed wheel to wheel racing. Because of this the instruction also changes. Yes there are certainly skills that transfer between all three and yes there are different skills required for the different types of events.

Everyone should take a look at how they spend money on their car and consider NOT that buying that newest SEMA sensational part and save and use that money to invest in themselves by attending multiple driving schools.

You will be glad you did!

Professional instruction at PT events is long overdue!

[protouring70]

Thanks Tim. I sent him a message. And I look forward to taking some class time myself

[71RS/SS396]

Thanks Tim. I sent him a message. And I look forward to taking some class time myself
You won't be disappointed Brent.

[rdchandler]

Yes, I would love it!

[SLO_Z28]

This already exists:

http://www.sccastartingline.com/
https://www.evoschool.com/

The starting line thing is an amazing deal for newcomers, and Evo schools have always been THE premier autocross schools. For open track theres NASA HPDEs:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/

[71RS/SS396]

This already exists:

http://www.sccastartingline.com/
https://www.evoschool.com/

The starting line thing is an amazing deal for newcomers, and Evo schools have always been THE premier autocross schools. For open track theres NASA HPDEs:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/

Yep, I know they already exist. If you would of read the entire thread you would have seen that Junior Johnson responded (he owns evo) to the thread. I've already had some preliminary conversations with Junior about the possiblity of Evo's involvement.
The reason I would like to possibly do this at the ASCS events is to lower the cost for the participants by not having to go to a separate track day events, some people can only afford to go to 1 or 2 events a year so this gives them the chance to be able to get training while still participating in an ASCS event.

[FlyDoc]

for a full day in our cars, I don't think $250-$300 would be out of line as long as seat time was not cut short.
I think why some guys are not up to spending $$$ on driving classes is some of them that I have seen in the Phoenix area, you spend 1/2 the day in class and the the rest of the time waiting to get your 6-10 laps in.

[Mustard_N_Catchup]

I would love to do it! I KNOW the weakest point with my car is ME, I'm looking at taking some classes now, but the more classes offered and took, the better one can get. One instructor my get you so far, then the next even further and so on. IMHO, if you can keep things 500.00 or less, you'll have alot of takers.

Good luck!

[Motorcitydak]

For sure interested if there is something I can make it to.

If your family own's Jet Hot can you look into my request for header coating? I submitted it over a week ago and have heard nothing back yet

[71RS/SS396]

For sure interested if there is something I can make it to.

If your family own's Jet Hot can you look into my request for header coating? I submitted it over a week ago and have heard nothing back yet

Pm me your info and I'll check, we are on a skeleton crew right now with holidays and the person that usually handles that is out with a new baby.

[BMR Sales]

for a full day in our cars, I don't think $250-$300 would be out of line as long as seat time was not cut short.
I think why some guys are not up to spending $$$ on driving classes is some of them that I have seen in the Phoenix area, you spend 1/2 the day in class and the the rest of the time waiting to get your 6-10 laps in.

That is a Problem in those Driver's Heads which lead to the Events being changed. If people don't want to spend time to learn & just want to get on the Track, they are going to Kill themselves or others! I know I don't have much patience, but come on, these events are about learning to drive your car better & closer to it's limits.

It's like the people asking to buy a Cheap Helmet - Buy a $5 Bucket if your Head is only worth $5

T.C.

[SkinsandJrfan]

At the only RTTH event that I attended, I was lucky enough to win a gift certificate to Evolution Driving School. (Thanks Bill) I live in NC, drove my 68 Camaro to Richmond, VA area to attend this school. Junior Johnson and his guys were so helpful. I knew nothing about autocross racing when I went to RTTH. However, when I went to DSEs Southern Slam at CMP after attending Evo, I was much more prepared than before. Also, to touch on a point that is being made about having more car than driving ability, this was proven true to me in my own car. I can't remember if it was Junior or not that drove the wheels off of my car and beat the crap out of the times I was laying down. Yes, my car needed some upgrades such as brakes (I had a terrible brake set up at the time) and suspension adjustments but my car had more to me than I had to offer to it. I ran the road course at CMP (loved it) but I am sure that someone like Junior or Kyle Tucker or Bill could have done way better in my own car. Before getting out on the course there, I road in one of the DSE cars and asked the driver to point out the braking and turning points so that I knew what to do a little more. I didnt want to just go out there all crazy and act like I knew what I was doing. Just that little bit of instruction helped me.

I am interested in attending an advanced Evo school and would be open to attending any road course school that is being offered.