6.0L in a 67 woe's

[jeremyS]

OK guys this is what I have and looking for some advice. 6.0L going into a 67 camaro. I have transdapt 1" setback plates, energy suspension mounts and 2 kinds of saddles holley pan.

Well my pan basically sits on the crossmember and if you get the bolt in one side no way to get into the other side. I have included some pics do I have the wrong energy suspension mounts? Going bananas we have tried to flip, switch and everything else in between? Thought

Thanks as always
Jeremy

[jeremyS]

Forgot the mount

[Toddoky]

Forgot the mount

The new 302-2 Holley pan and Hooker 12618HKR clamshell retrofit mounts just released for 1st-gen F-bodies/3rd-gen Nova's LS swaps specifically address this very problem and others that have persistently plagued this swap application for some time. The 302-1 Holley pan you have was designed primarily to provide stroker crank capabilities to those willing and/or able to modify the vehicle it was going in as needed to provide the clearance for its larger geometry. The 1st-gen Camaros/3rd-gen Novas are not vehicles that can accept its geometry and provide optimized U-joint working angles without notching the center of the engine crossmember for clearance.

The new pan on the other hand, when used in conjunction with the new Hooker 1st-gen LS swap engine mount kit and transmission crossmembers provides all the clearance you need, in a bolt-in package, to deliver optimized engine inclination/U-joint working angles and component clearances.

These are the same components that were just used on the Roadkill LS engine swap live youtube broadcast at the PRI show this past week that demonstrated their easy-as butter-installation and drop-in compatibility with the new Hooker headers and exhaust systems also being released out for this application. The new Hooker engine mount kit allows you to say goodbye to frame stands completely and rid yourself of all the pitfalls that come with their use.

The LS swap market is maturing and the emergence of more application-specific parts is now providing better end results than previously available from using universal or clearance-to-fit components.

[jeremyS]

Thanks todd. I will look into them. I already have stainless works headers though.

[Z06vet]

If you're willing to use some thick grade 8 washers as shims under those stands it will work fine. Ive done several that way. I'm looking forward to trying the new mounts.

[jeremyS]

I think we tried shims but then it moved mount position to much. Do I have the wrong poly motor mounts?

[Z06vet]

I found there is a variance in the thickness in many of the poly mounts. I ended up with the thinnest I could find, which were the ones by DSE if I remember correctly. The factory rubber ones fit the best & seem to more accomodating to the tight fit. The height of the trans tailshaft also plays role with tight pan clearance. Too high & pan hits in the front but too low & it hits toward the backside of the cradle. I also found leaving the bolts for the frame stands loose allows for some needed wiggle room in getting the bolts thru.

[jeremyS]

Thanks we actually need the motor to lift about 1/2" and I have a g-force trans crossmember (nice piece) the pan as it sits is basically sitting on the crossmember, as a last resort we will fab some new saddles? Really appreciate all the help. In the mad dash for autorama little things like this are a PITA. Lol

[Z06vet]

Ya you could cut the mounts & extend them 1/2" or tad more. You may find after that that you need to re-drill or slot the holes in the subframe. Or possibly install the stands to the mounts, all of it on the motor, and set it down on the crossmember & weld them to it. I went thru this on a couple & had to work thru it. I just last weekend dropped ls1/4L60 in 67 firebird subframe using the Mast pan (first time using one). Everything dropped right in on first try. No spacers. Plenty of pan clearance. I did use the thin poly mounts though. I look forward to using the new holley stuff on my next build. Hope you get it done in time. Scott

[jeremyS]

Scott I appreciate the insite. Seems no matter how much research you do these bumps always arise. Grrrrr is all I wanna say! Thanks again

[garys 68]

OK, first, short wide vs tall narrow. This thread is on A body but you get the idea that there are 2 motor mount versions.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/867789-motor-mounts-68-cutlass-gm-body.html
That being said, both my LS swaps (C3 and A body) required about a 1/4" spacer to get the bolts in. Sounds like that might fix your pan issue too.

[Toddoky]

Thanks todd. I will look into them. I already have stainless works headers though.

Understood Jeremy; I have no idea whether or not the new Hooker mounts would be compatible with the Stainless Works headers. Keep in mind when you are having thoughts about raising your engine that it will have a direct affect on your engine inclination and U-joint working angles (you should be trying hard to keep the working angles below 3 degrees maximum). Your G-Force crossmember may allow you to raise the tail of your transmission to compensate for the negative effects caused by raising the engine, but not by very much until the transmission runs into the tunnel sheet metal. If you are going to resort to cutting and welding anything, it would be much more beneficial from a performance standpoint to notch the bottom of your crossmember to clear your oil pan than to cut anything to raise your engine.

I ran into exactly the same situation you are dealing with while prototyping the new Hooker parts, which is what drove me in the direction of creating the new style engine mounts and the new Holley pan...all of these problems go away and you can install the engine at the standard 3 degree inclination angle when you apply a different strategy.

[jeremyS]

Hey Gary, we tried the wide ones there was no way they were gonna work, went back to taller ones and that's were we are at now. Short wides are Z28 mounts and the others can with the car, we tried the transdapt shim kit but then it changes bolt hole location. I guess you would say it pushes it out not down and out?

[garys 68]

No shimming here, just 1/4" aluminum spacers (silver plate between adapter and mount). Pushes both out and down. Fit perfect in both cars after that.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/12/DSCN0289-1.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/rdoact/media/DSCN0289.jpg.html)

[jeremyS]

Todd I assume those mounts won't work with the old pan design?

[Z06vet]

Ya those mounts look short. Spacer, shim, I consider them the same. I just did it between the stands & the frame. Yours are much nice than mine
Scott

[jeremyS]

I think that will be our plan of attack scott. We were more concerned something else was messed up. Know that we know this is a common problem we can move forward.

I think we will bolt everything to the motor drop accordingly and build up from the crossmember.

Jeremy

[garys 68]

I found pics when I first ran into this.
If it looks like this, the spacers will fix it. This was a front view of my 68 vette.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/12/06drmount-1.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/rdoact/media/06drmount.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/12/07pasmount-1.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/rdoact/media/07pasmount.jpg.html)

[Toddoky]

Todd I assume those mounts won't work with the old pan design?

Not unless you are willing and able to notch the engine crossmember or the oil pan itself Jeremy. We began the design process of the new Hooker components by positioning the engine and transmission where they needed to be to obtain optimized U-Joint working angles to be able to use the car in a competition setting when finished if desired, as any professional car builder would do. We then designed the engine mounts and transmission crossmember to maintain this positioning and then finally designed the headers and the new Holley oil pan to clear everything within the fitment envelope. The mixed-bag approach is precisely what we avoided as the market is already saturated with those types of components and there was no need to pile on more of the same products from us.

[Toddoky]

Not unless you are willing and able to notch the engine crossmember or the oil pan itself Jeremy. We began the design process of the new Hooker components by positioning the engine and transmission where they needed to be to obtain optimized U-Joint working angles to be able to use the car in a competition setting when finished if desired, as any professional car builder would do. We then designed the engine mounts and transmission crossmember to maintain this positioning and then finally designed the headers and the new Holley oil pan to clear everything within the fitment envelope. The mixed-bag approach is precisely what we avoided as the market is already saturated with those types of components and there was no need to pile on more of the same products from us.

As a reference, here's a shot of the Hooker mounts so you can see what will be taking the place of your frame stands and old-school Chevy pad mounts if you decide to use the Hooker mounts in the future.87358

[jeremyS]

Thanks Todd. I so wish this product was available a couple months ago. Definitely would have made things much more trouble free, as in the nature of these type build it seems as nothing truly just bolts in. There will be another car in the future and I will definitely give this setup a try..

[csouth]

My energy suspension mounts came with shims in the package, but they were short/wide version.

[Toddoky]

Thanks Todd. I so wish this product was available a couple months ago. Definitely would have made things much more trouble free, as in the nature of these type build it seems as nothing truly just bolts in. There will be another car in the future and I will definitely give this setup a try..

The development of all this new 1st-gen stuff took the better part of a year to complete, so there is far more engineering contained in their geometry and fitment than what anyone is used to at this point. Your experience of nothing truly bolting together in these swaps would be the prevailing perception surrounding LS swaps currently and was the motivation behind the use of the all the CAD modeling and FEA testing we did to ensure your experience with these components will change what you believe is possible with an LS swap.

If you had the chance to watch the Roadkill show perform the LS7/4L60 swap into the Crusher Camaro live at the PRI show last week, you would have witnessed the most pain-free possible installation of an LS into a 1st-gen Camaro/3rd-gen Nova. Those two guys had the blown Big Block out of the car and the LS7 and 4L60 bolted solidly into the car on the Hooker engine mounts and transmission crossmember by the end of the 1st day using nothing but common hand tools and working off the floor with the car on jack stands. The engine mounts worked like butter with no guess work or head scratching needed to figure out how to get the mounts to line up correctly after they were bolted in. The guys spent the next two days hooking up all the fuel and electrical connections and then started it at the end of the third day.

[Toddoky]

8741687417Just for you Jeremy...here's two clear shots showing how close the new Hooker mounts will put your engine to the firewall. Notice how the position provides compatibility with a stock SB heater core or the stock A/C evaporator housing. That equates to keeping money in your pocket.

[Toddoky]

8742087421And here's the two photos of the 2nd-gen Hooker stainless headers I mentioned in my PM Jeremy (the 1st-gen versions use the same proprietary components). I don't think folks are quite aware yet of the full gamut of parts available from Hooker for swapping LS's in 1st and 2nd gen F-bodies and 3rd-gen X-body cars.

[jeremyS]

Thanks for the pics Todd

[Toddoky]

Thanks for the pics Todd

No problem Jeremy, anytime. Good luck to you in your swap.

[kirt70camaro]

Hey Jeremy I also have a 67 convertable I'm gathering the parts for an LQ4 swap with 243 heads. I have been looking locally but haven't found anyone local with a first gen ls local to me. So be ready at the auto ramma for a lot of questions. I live about an hour north of Detroit. Thanks Kirt

[jeremyS]

Ended up going the route Z06 recommended as we already had all the parts. Here's the result

[kirt70camaro]

Looks awesome can't wait to check it out!

[jeremyS]

Cross your fingers and hope we make it in time. Good luck on your build as well

[Toddoky]

Cross your fingers and hope we make it in time. Good luck on your build as well

I'm glad to see it coming together for you Jeremy, did you end up using the existing 302-1 Holley oil pan?

[jeremyS]

We did todd. Bolted everything together moved it forward a bit and welded it up. We have 3* of driveline angle, we could further reduce it by shining trans up if need be.

Thanks for you help I will definitely be looking for your new setup next time.

J

[Toddoky]

We did todd. Bolted everything together moved it forward a bit and welded it up. We have 3* of driveline angle, we could further reduce it by shining trans up if need be.

Thanks for you help I will definitely be looking for your new setup next time.

J

I'm glad it all worked out for you and I hope you do get to use the new Hooker/Holley parts in the future. To satisfy my curiosity, can you take a shot of the header collectors accross the bottom of the car and post it up for me. I'm compiling a personal photo database of comparative geomety for my use here and could really use this photo since I know the descrete combination of parts you are using.

Thanks

[jeremyS]

As soon as I get them I will. No problem

[Toddoky]

As soon as I get them I will. No problem

Not sure I understand you Jeremy, I thought you were running the Stainless Works headers? If so, that's the headers I'd like to see a picture of the fitment of under the car. Are you going to be attempting an installation of the new Hooker headers with the mount set-up you have? If you do, be aware that your engine position is higher than what the headers were designed to work with and so you might have interference issues with the floor pan. The fore/aft position of the engine is also critical for the fitment of the Hooker headers due to the way in which the tubes wrap around the steering box instead of trying to tuck behind them like some headers for this application do.

[jeremyS]

Here you go Todd

[jeremyS]

Tons of room on both sides. And these are stainless works headers

[Toddoky]

Tons of room on both sides. And these are stainless works headers

Thanks Jeremy. This type of info is valuable in providing a more useful answer than "I don't know" to inquiries we get regarding the compatibility of our components with those from other companies. Everything coming together for you?

[jeremyS]

It looks as if we will be fine thanks for asking. The accessory drive adapter you guys came out with works real nice as well

[Toddoky]

It looks as if we will be fine thanks for asking. The accessory drive adapter you guys came out with works real nice as well

Glad that piece worked out for you on that project.

[kirt70camaro]

Will you be at Autoramma?