New direction for me in 2014

[Bill Howell]

It is after much thought that I make this post. I have tried to touch on this in a recent post about plans for 2014. I have talked with partners, vendors, supporters and participants about this and why I am doing this post/email. I have been involved from a very personal level in the development of this nitch we call Protouring. I have lead the charge, drove the train and cheerlead all I know to do. I did it in the beginning for the fun, at some point, it did become a part time business. Never designed to be my day job, but did help with me being able to afford my new found, very expensive hobby.
That is the ground work. We went from cruises, to drag racing to autocrossing and finally moved into full fledged, all out Road Coarse Racing. Call it what you like, but when you strap into a car with a 5 point harness, pull onto a track, run it as hard as you feel your are talented to do, be that understood or perceived, whether or not it has a tag, insurance or proper racing equipment, YOU ARE RACING! Now, as the sport grew, and as more and more came on board, joined the ranks, built more cars, faster cars and even now special purpose built cars, there is one thing that needed to happen that didn't. I blame myself for that, regardless if you were running in my events or elsewhere. I am writing this right now to say that as far as I, Bill Howell is concerned....NO MAS!
This hobby is growing now exponentially, cars are getting stupid fast, every year we read or witness more and more horsepower, more and more speed, with no or very little attention to driver talent or enough safety equipment.
Guys, Girls, participants, vendors and promoters. This is a TRAINWRECK just looking for a place to happen. I am no longer willing to be the or one of the conductors. Now that we have cars with more horsepower than NASCAR being driven by people that have very little training or track time it is just a matter of time before the so far minor incidents turn into something far worse. This year I can name at least 5 separate times that sheet metal was bent this year. Only one of those involved injuries. The clock is ticking guys, I have to bring it to the surface. It has been the white elephant in the room for a while, I am just the one that is pointing at it and saying lets fix it before it eats us.
Three reasons I am screaming this.
1. From a personal standpoint I could not live with myself knowing I was responsible in anyway for one of my friends being injured or killed.
2. From a business point of view, no amount of money, fame or recognition is worth the pain a bad accident would do for the business.
3. As a very good friend told me just yesterday, most personal injury attorneys can not even spell liability wavier. To them it doesn't exist. I can sign anything to release the promoter, the vendors and others from my stupidity. However, if I die due to my self destructive actions, all Melinda needs is a good attorney and one hint of negligence on anyone's part and it is all over.
All that said, lets move on to 2014.
1. As a participant and one with the need for speed, yes, I will very privately attend some events as a private person, running my private car, and have a blast.
2. As Bill Howell the promoter, until I am comfortable that I have CMA with all my current concerns and issues, don't expect to see my name attached to any event that I KNOW is unsafe. This will probably mean as a company, I will not be involved in many or any Road Coarse Events. As a company I will change my focus on what I consider Fun and Safe. This doesn't mean I am going anywhere, it simply means look for a different direction. Autocrossing has it's areas of concern also, but as a promoter there are things I can do to insure the most you can do is get some cone rash on your quarter panels.


Does this mean no Road Coarse anymore. Absolutely not. However, it will mean lead follow laps for people that can not prove to me they and their car are ready to be turned loose. This still won't cure all problems, but know that the rules, requirements and qualifications are going to be stiff.
Will this hurt my business plan? It may in the short term but I feel the long term results will be both understood by most and appreciated by all.


The first and immediate fall out from this and has already been agreed by the principles of ASCS is unfortunately with the closing of El Toro, we will not have a RTTC this spring. I hate it, I know people have already planned for this event. We have invested a lot of time and money to make it happen but in the end, we feel this is the right call. I will promise now though that there will be something in California this summer. Announcement coming soon.


There are plenty venues if you have the need for speed and I wish everyone well, I just can not any longer avoid that elephant that has been staring at me for over a year now.

I ask that everyone share this infomation and lets get the word out.

[protouring70]

Bill I'm glad you brought this up. I enjoy ALL of the events that I have been able to go to but you are right. Thanks for making a step in the right direction, I would hate to see one of our friends hurt!

[srh3trinity]

I have seen a big change from capable street cars to purpose built race cars in street car clothing. I initially wanted to build my car after seeing and reading about one of the first RTTH events and that is still my end goal. Open track racing was never on my radar and I don't think my Firebird will ever see that kind of action. Fun with my family and Autocross are my goals and I wouldn't want to put a cage in a car and have my family ride around with me on the street. If I get the track bug I would probably build a different car.

[mmosley]

Bravo Bill - do what you think is right. We have an oddly appropriate saying at work... Safe, Right, then Fast. If anyone out there thinks they are immune let the tragedy of the late Mr Walker and his friend Roger Rodas be a reminder. We are talking about a good driver and a capable car, let their tragedy at the very least be a reminder to us that bad things can happen very quickly no matter how good a driver we think we are.


I have seen a big change from capable street cars to purpose built race cars in street car clothing. I initially wanted to build my car after seeing and reading about one of the first RTTH events and that is still my end goal. Open track racing was never on my radar and I don't think my Firebird will ever see that kind of action. Fun with my family and Autocross are my goals and I wouldn't want to put a cage in a car and have my family ride around with me on the street. If I get the track bug I would probably build a different car.

I have the same sentiment. If I want to run the big courses, open road courses, and high speed I will build a dedicated track car. My street car is just that, a street car. I wrangled with the idea of putting a cage in my car for quite a while, but, even with roll bar padding I feel that a cage is just as dangerous or more so to the occupants of the car who are not fully restrained and not wearing a helmet. Since I do not want to wear a helmet to drive this car to work, cruises, or the shows, then that means no cage. I think a cage would be a false sense of security for someone wearing a three point belt and no other safety equipment. So in an oddly practical sense I must limit this car in many ways to fit that set of rules. It will be a mild monster, just something that is fun and enjoyable to drive, has some key modern touches like EFI, good brakes, OD transmission, good seats, and AC. A good touring car I can take on trips and cruises. Maybe that is what "Pro Touring" really is about. Having something nice to drive that has the modern updates and manners but still maintains the classic car looks.

[V8240Z]

Bill, as a recent newcomer to protouring, I applaud all you have done and continue to do. I was at RTTC as a spectator last year and was hooked. My car is not quite done yet, and have to confess there is some disappointment with what you say. However, as a former drag racer, I must recognize that there is a lack of safety equipment in our cars. My car has no roll cage, no fire suppression system, and no electrical shutoff. All of these would be required for moderate performance in the drag racing venues. I am in full support of your decisions and statements, and will reassess the build of my car. I still look forward to high speed road course action at some point in my new found endeavor.

Thanks again for all you have done for this sport and for each of us. Merry Christmas,
Charles

[Cobra 498]

Bill,
I want to thank you for all you have done for this sport and all the hard work you have put in over the years. I am very much in agreement with your position on safety, we as a group are an accident waiting to happen. The level of talent required to handle a mistake, or mechanical failure in a high speed situation takes years of experience to develop and many of us do not have that ability. I for one would like to see autox, speed stop, and maybe 1/8 mile drag race in an event or possibly a high speed autox on a safe course like you set up at El Toro. Running all out on a full on race track is not something I want to do both for my safety as well as keeping my car in one piece. One big issue could really hurt this sport and effect of all us because nobody would want to take a chance putting on an event due to potential liability. Last summer I took my GT to Auto club Speedway and ran in an event that used the road race track.
I reached an indicated 190 MPH before entering turn 1 and that was with a street legal car with race tires, no fire system and no roll cage. I decided that was too fast for my dwindling skill set. I can only imagine what would happen if I had a tire failure or if the rear stepped out and I did not catch it. I plan on running events next year that do not involve that level of risk because you can have just as much fun in a low speed event as a road race event. Road racing can be a lot of fun, but you need a dedicated safe road race car to do it. A combination car will never be as safe as it should be either for street or track use because of the compromises that it would require.

[Johnny Blaze]

Totally agree Bill!

[GNon18s]

Well it was fun while it lasted!

[shmoov69]

Bravo Bill!! When there was a post awhile back about including drag racing, I REALLY noticed that the "fun" part had faded and full out competition had become "normal". I'm more about the fun and thank God that there hasn't been any major problems at any of the events!!

[Todd in Vancouver]

A few nights ago I started to really think along these same lines as I was reading the Safety Thread that Ron Sutton is sharing with all of us. I've been playing with cars for decades and while I'm still in the building stages of my Pro-tour '67, I did recently purchase a new ZL1 and took it to a track event where they were running an Advanced Driving training day. It was a bit of a wake up call for me with the sheer raw performance of this car. It's a whole lot different than the old drag racing builds and cars from my past experience.

As I read Ron's thread on safety it start really hitting home for me that I will end up with a car that's way lighter and will be pushing the boundaries of my ZL performance in a car built in '67 with non of the safety features included. This is making me rethink my end goals of my build and what I want to do with the car. My intentions are to drive this car on the street and be able to take it anywhere and the reality is it can't be as track capable as I thought because I'm not willing to sacrifice the creature comforts for the safety gear needed to run an open road track. So, the '67s build will take a slightly differed turn in its build and will still be a really awesome car, but not one that will see the kind of high speed driving that I had once envisioned. I'll just have to use my ZL for some of those days , where it can do it safely.


Bill, I feel this thread and Ron's as well needs to be highlighted for all the guys and gals getting into this build/racing Pro-tour type cars. There needs to also be a reality check conversation with whomever are the sanctioning bodies that govern these types of events. Just my .02

[Red67Mustang]

This may serve to also address a question I had planned to pose... Is there an event / series that allows "home builds" to be competitive? I'm not ever going to be in the league of DSE or Finch or any other of the big dollar cars built by people whose job / career it is to build cars like that. I do this hobby for fun with 'fun money' only. Not only has safety been correctly pointed out, but I see from the results of events that (it seems at least) there could be more room for 'privateers' if the cars didn't need to be quite so radical (race cars...).

In other words, I don't think slowing the field's speed down a bit will be bad for business at all!

Thanks!

[Bill Howell]

This may serve to also address a question I had planned to pose... Is there an event / series that allows "home builds" to be competitive? I'm not ever going to be in the league of DSE or Finch or any other of the big dollar cars built by people whose job / career it is to build cars like that. I do this hobby for fun with 'fun money' only. Not only has safety been correctly pointed out, but I see from the results of events that (it seems at least) there could be more room for 'privateers' if the cars didn't need to be quite so radical (race cars...).


In other words, I don't think slowing the field's speed down a bit will be bad for business at all!

Thanks!
As you may already know, Brian Finch happens to be not only a partner in ASCS, he also drives his HOME BUILT car, in his back yard garage, at night after his regular day job with parts he bought out of his pocket. So if he wasn't a privateer when he started no one ever has been. Sure, he may now represent some companies in the hobby, but he has always been what I just typed. Never under estimate yourself. As long as your car is safe and you have the proper seat time, you can run with anyone. If not, then there will be some other options, but no WAO bonzi runs. New rules have been discussed and we are working on a program right now, stay tuned.

[Bill Howell]

Bill,
I want to thank you for all you have done for this sport and all the hard work you have put in over the years. I am very much in agreement with your position on safety, we as a group are an accident waiting to happen. The level of talent required to handle a mistake, or mechanical failure in a high speed situation takes years of experience to develop and many of us do not have that ability. I for one would like to see autox, speed stop, and maybe 1/8 mile drag race in an event or possibly a high speed autox on a safe course like you set up at El Toro. Running all out on a full on race track is not something I want to do both for my safety as well as keeping my car in one piece. One big issue could really hurt this sport and effect of all us because nobody would want to take a chance putting on an event due to potential liability. Last summer I took my GT to Auto club Speedway and ran in an event that used the road race track.
I reached an indicated 190 MPH before entering turn 1 and that was with a street legal car with race tires, no fire system and no roll cage. I decided that was too fast for my dwindling skill set. I can only imagine what would happen if I had a tire failure or if the rear stepped out and I did not catch it. I plan on running events next year that do not involve that level of risk because you can have just as much fun in a low speed event as a road race event. Road racing can be a lot of fun, but you need a dedicated safe road race car to do it. A combination car will never be as safe as it should be either for street or track use because of the compromises that it would require.

Thank You Sir for posting and for the kind words. This thread is sorta like giving a kid medicine. It may not be what they want at the time, but in the end, it is the best thing. As a company, we are taking the medicine now to avoid the pain later.

[71RS/SS396]

As you may already know, Brian Finch happens to be not only a partner in ASCS, he also drives his HOME BUILT car, in his back yard garage, at night after his regular day job with parts he bought out of his pocket. So if he wasn't a privateer when he started no one ever has been. Sure, he may now represent some companies in the hobby, but he has always been what I just typed. Never under estimate yourself. As long as your car is safe and you have the proper seat time, you can run with anyone. If not, then there will be some other options, but no WAO bonzi runs. New rules have been discussed and we are working on a program right now, stay tuned.

Exactly! I have people ask me all the time what parts to buy to make their car faster, my standard answer has become "spend your money on driving schools that's the best bang for the buck to improve performance". People think they need the trick of the week part to make them fast while it CAN help you will never realize the potential of those parts if your driving skills aren't up to par. You can be very fast with minimal mods to the suspension a brakes that are properly tuned. Mary Pozzi kick a lot of our butts with leaf springs for a long time. Brian Hobaugh's Corvette has nothing more than good shocks, spings, sway bars, brakes, and tires and he smoked everyone at Optima. Driving schools also teach you how to drive fast SAFELY.

[Martin71RS]

Bill, I applaud you for making this decision! It's never easy taking a step back but you do it for the right reasons. In the end everybody needs to live with themselves and the concequences of their actions.

For me personally it's not about winning when I'm out on the track but the fun of driving fast.
If I notice someone is faster (or driving like an idiot) I let them pass since I want and need to drive home after the event.
I don't want to wreck my car because I over estimate myself/get carried away in the moment or have someone else crash into me so I keep a large enough safety margin.

Even though my car isn't very fast it's still capable of more then I am...so Tim is right about the driving class.

Saftey is a big thing in my work too, regarded as THE most important thing nowadays and money is (almost) no object there when it comes to it.
In the end it's "just" a hobby!

[MonzaRacer]

Been in fast drag car, endover end 4 times, layed over on side and rolled three times. Nothing like sores from a 5 point. lucky thing is the way the car rolled it never bent the frame, just the sheet metal.
But I do agree there really needs to be some LIMITS and rules and such. I here you on the liability issues, helped set up a burnout contest once, yeeessh THAT policy was a nightmare.
My hope is too ha dont need too run 200 mph. honestly I was wondering why there wasnt a speed limiter that could be affixed to cars to sa limit the top speeed o say >149mph on top rung and limit the top speed on other cars/drivers. Maybe even require reasonable training classes to help them learn basic skills.
As for fire systems, etc. Basic rules from different classes/forms of racing might be adopted since you dont have that many large/numerous events I really cant see how a liability policy couldnt be found, and even make part of entering fees pay on the policy.
I know one group of racers in Canada have a policy that every driver buys into and the policy covers those drivers/passengers. The event planners carry insurance on spectators and other stuff.
But in any form lets hope it works out as I really love cars and have hoped for car crafting to evolve into what we now love as Pro-touring.
I really dont want it to die off before I get some cars ready to run.

[BMR Sales]

Bill, we have never met & I'm relatively new to the Site, But I applaud you for your Decision

I have worked for Skip Barber for 25 Years and I have also been involved in other programs like Chin & the Porsche Club of America. I was asked to be Chief Track Instructor for PCA on 2 different occasions - the 1st time I turned it down due to Time Commitments.

The 2nd Time was because of many things you mentioned. The cars have gotten too fast & there has not been enough Driver Training. A Porsche GT3RS, a Twin Turbo or a Carrera GT all have more HP than anything that is the GT Class in the Former ALMS. Add to this all the Computers in the Cars that take over and Drivers felt invincible. Our programs used to be Limited Passing (5 Straightaways @ Sebring) for all Groups including Instructors. 2 Years ago PCA made a Decision to have unlimited Passing as long as there was a Point-By - I was strongly opposed to this and still am. Our program was called a Driver Education Program and we have Never taught anybody how to pass in a Corner. And what is now suggested is, IMHO incorrect. It is only a matter of time til something serious happens. The other reason I turned the Job down was because a few years back there was an Accident at Fontana between a Carrera GT & a Ferrari at an Event that had multiple fatalities (3). Even though everyone had signed a Waiver, Lawsuits were filed against the Chief Instructor all the way down to some Corner Workers. As the Ex-Husband of a Lawyer, I knew that was going to happen! And my name is not going to be on the losing end of that Suit.

I still continue to do Classroom work at the PCA Events, Drive in them, but I limit my Instructing to a few Individuals that I know.

I don't know what the Solution is, but I know I don't want to be part of the Mess after the fact.

T.C.

[Bill Howell]

Bill, we have never met & I'm relatively new to the Site, But I applaud you for your Decision

I have worked for Skip Barber for 25 Years and I have also been involved in other programs like Chin & the Porsche Club of America. I was asked to be Chief Track Instructor for PCA on 2 different occasions - the 1st time I turned it down due to Time Commitments.

The 2nd Time was because of many things you mentioned. The cars have gotten too fast & there has not been enough Driver Training. A Porsche GT3RS, a Twin Turbo or a Carrera GT all have more HP than anything that is the GT Class in the Former ALMS. Add to this all the Computers in the Cars that take over and Drivers felt invincible. Our programs used to be Limited Passing (5 Straightaways @ Sebring) for all Groups including Instructors. 2 Years ago PCA made a Decision to have unlimited Passing as long as there was a Point-By - I was strongly opposed to this and still am. Our program was called a Driver Education Program and we have Never taught anybody how to pass in a Corner. And what is now suggested is, IMHO incorrect. It is only a matter of time til something serious happens. The other reason I turned the Job down was because a few years back there was an Accident at Fontana between a Carrera GT & a Ferrari at an Event that had multiple fatalities (3). Even though everyone had signed a Waiver, Lawsuits were filed against the Chief Instructor all the way down to some Corner Workers. As the Ex-Husband of a Lawyer, I knew that was going to happen! And my name is not going to be on the losing end of that Suit.

I still continue to do Classroom work at the PCA Events, Drive in them, but I limit my Instructing to a few Individuals that I know.

I don't know what the Solution is, but I know I don't want to be part of the Mess after the fact.

T.C.

Thanks, I really appreciate the support and comments. Coming from you and someone with the experience, knowledge and background and has seen what can and WILL happen if we continue down this road, maybe now people can see this isn't some hidden agenda on my part, it is truly concern over what I KNOW I helped create.
I have simply said as for me and ASCS, NO MAS, no more.
I have to admit, I feel now that the ship has sailed that I am alone on the island and some think I have the plague for talking about it. I can live with that, I can suffer the consequences of that. I knew the possible fall out before I ever opened the thread. Be that as it may, even if it means I never do a single event in the future, I can live with that a lot better than attending a friend's funeral that I know I had a part in happening.

That said, there are some new rules I have pitched to several in this group, both participants and sponsors. We will see how those feel about them and go from there.

Changes they are acoming, we just don't know exactly what they are yet. I guess we will all find out quickly if I am a leader, a madman or a fool. :)

[dontlifttoshift]

I have simply said as for me and ASCS, NO MAS, no more.


Bill, no more what? Whatever your reasons may be, I am glad that you are putting the safety of participants first but I do not understand what you are doing. Not sure why you think you are stranded, plenty of people patted you on the back here and on LatG and I think it is great that you are doing something but I beleive you may find even more support if people knew what ASCS is doing to help ensure the safety of its participants.

[Bill Howell]

Bill, no more what? Whatever your reasons may be, I am glad that you are putting the safety of participants first but I do not understand what you are doing. Not sure why you think you are stranded, plenty of people patted you on the back here and on LatG and I think it is great that you are doing something but I beleive you may find even more support if people knew what ASCS is doing to help ensure the safety of its participants.

My only concern in all we do as ASCS is the fact that at this point in time I feel I have lead the charge to not being safe enough on road courses, that is all. That is what I say NO MORE to. Until I can know that we are doing all we can to be safe on road courses, we simply are out of that game. I think we are on our way to a set of rules that fixes that. However, my fix may mean some no longer see the benefit either as a sponsor or participant to be a part of our events. I am good with that.
The rest of ASCS program is pretty fun and safe I think. If this road course safety realignment doesn't pan out, then we will find something else to fill that void. Heck, we started what we got now, I see no reason we can't figure this out and still have fun.
Did that answer your question or did my rambling confuse you more??? lol

[Bill Howell]

Bill,Not sure why you think you are stranded?

That one is easy, when you do something like this that may change your game, people sit back and question your decisions and also wait to see which way the rest of the hobby is going to take it. That is where we are right now and why I am working so hard on these new rules. Once that is posted then it will be a matter of personal decisions for everyone.

[1966longroof]

Bill, there is a old saying.... "Lead, Follow, or Get out of the Way". Near as the old Marine can figure out.... Your Leading. And we appreciate it.

[BMR Sales]

Thanks, I really appreciate the support and comments. Coming from you and someone with the experience, knowledge and background and has seen what can and WILL happen if we continue down this road, maybe now people can see this isn't some hidden agenda on my part, it is truly concern over what I KNOW I helped create.
I have simply said as for me and ASCS, NO MAS, no more.
I have to admit, I feel now that the ship has sailed that I am alone on the island and some think I have the plague for talking about it. I can live with that, I can suffer the consequences of that. I knew the possible fall out before I ever opened the thread. Be that as it may, even if it means I never do a single event in the future, I can live with that a lot better than attending a friend's funeral that I know I had a part in happening.

That said, there are some new rules I have pitched to several in this group, both participants and sponsors. We will see how those feel about them and go from there.

Changes they are acoming, we just don't know exactly what they are yet. I guess we will all find out quickly if I am a leader, a madman or a fool. :)

You are not alone on the Island, but it may seem that way at times. I know I ruffled a few feathers when I voiced my displeasure. I think that when people get the addiction of Track Time, they resist any change to that. They also never see the potential of Danger of High Horsepower. When I started Instructing 25 Years ago, the most HP in a car that showed up was in the 300 range and no computers. People had to Learn how to drive in order to go fast. Now it is easy to go fast (just watch any Soccer Mom going down the Highway doing her make-up going 85 MPH) Now Cars show up with 500-800 HP & I have been scared silly doing right-seat Instructing by people that have been doing this for a while. They also don't understand how I can Pass & Lap them with my 320 HP 40 Year Old Car - what they don't get is My Car weighs 1800lbs with a Full Cage and I have been Racing & Instructing for 25-30 Years.

Again I don't know the Answer, but a lot I put on Manufacturers of New Cars. They can't keep up the HP Wars without Killing People. I know it was on the Street, but look at the Paul walker Accident a few weeks ago - the Driver was a Professional Racer and that Carrera GT got away from him & cost 2 people their lives. Thank goodness they didn't take out any pedestrians or other Drivers.

T.C.

[jlcustomz]

The sign of a good leader is recognizing that issues could become major problems before they do, not after. If industries don't keep things from getting out of hand, then you know who will & that will make it harder on everybody as usual.

Much better to be governed from within.

[shmoov69]

Bill, not sure who is against or "blackballing" you as was stated elsewhere, but the reality of it is that THEY need to get over it and look at the big picture. The only agenda I see is that you are trying to keep EVERYONE safe, including you! Which is good when its hard for an "addict" to realize where to draw the line.
Good job man.

[Bill Howell]

http://msn.foxsports.com/speed/sports-cars/sportscars-countdown-of-the-top-5-wrecks-in-2013-video-and-pictures/ just saying

[Project92rs]

Bill,
While I'll miss RTTC this spring, I would much rather take a pause in the activities while decisions get made on how to keep it safe then go to an event and see someone come off the course in an ambulance. You are definitely not alone on the island. At least in this thread, there is a lot of support for the decision. Personally, we've been having the cage discussion for the GTA but it keeps coming down to, yes, it makes it safer on the track, but it is inconvenient and potentially dangerous on the street. And how can we get both without compromising both. Especially if we want to road race the car.

If there is anything I can do, let me know. As someone said already, far better for the participants to regulate what is going on than to let something bad happen and someone else force regulations on us.

[protouring70]

WOW! You hit on the head!



The sign of a good leader is recognizing that issues could become major problems before they do, not after. If industries don't keep things from getting out of hand, then you know who will & that will make it harder on everybody as usual.

Much better to be governed from within.

[Thephranc]

You just can't go wrong with safety first.

[GeoffP]

I'm excited and can't wait - 2014 will definitely be a fun and much safer year for all involved! Plus, this can only mean more autocross and if the format more closely follows the example RTTH set this year, it will definitely be a LOT OF FUN! I think this year's RTTH proved you can have a GREAT weekend and not have to have any road course racing at all. I, for one, will be back and am looking forward to 2014!

Lastly remember any event you attend is what YOU make it - getting hung up on any negatives will only result in your being disappointed and not enjoying time beating on your car in a safe environment and spending time with friends. Isn't this what it's really all about?

[dontlifttoshift]

Until I can know that we are doing all we can to be safe on road courses, we simply are out of that game. I think we are on our way to a set of rules that fixes that.

From the outside looking in, having that set of rules in this thread would have been super helpful in defining your statement. Look forward to seeing them.

[Bill Howell]

Look for them later this week Donny, my "board of safety directors" are tweaking them now.

[mincharlie]

Bill,
I think you are spot on! I know a lot of people will be glad to see these changes. Safety should always come first and most of our cars have no business on high speed road track ( 100+ mph) without the appropriate safety gear. I know you will get a lot of support here on this site. Keep up the great work!

Thanks
Dan

[TheJDMan]

The very definition of Pro-Touring is that you take an old muscle car and improve the power, handeling and braking to the point it compares with modern sports cars. I think it is pretty safe to say we have been doing that almost without a second thought.

Thankfully Ron and Bill are turning the attention to the overlooked subject of building safety into our cars. I too feel that the safety equipment of our cars needs some serious attention and I am following the safety threads closely to make sure my car is safe. But I would like to see this safety discussion go one step further and include the subject of Driver Training on the level of a Bondurant or Skip Barber.

I would like to see events which include some serious performance Driver Training classes offered by experienced instructiors where the students could take the class driving their personal vehicle. I doubt anyone would argue the benefit of a Bonderant or Barber level driving class, but not everyone can easily afford the price. I think offering a performance Driving School event would attract a huge number of participants.

[g-machine]

Exactly! I have people ask me all the time what parts to buy to make their car faster, my standard answer has become "spend your money on driving schools that's the best bang for the buck to improve performance". People think they need the trick of the week part to make them fast while it CAN help you will never realize the potential of those parts if your driving skills aren't up to par. You can be very fast with minimal mods to the suspension a brakes that are properly tuned. Mary Pozzi kick a lot of our butts with leaf springs for a long time. Brian Hobaugh's Corvette has nothing more than good shocks, spings, sway bars, brakes, and tires and he smoked everyone at Optima. Driving schools also teach you how to drive fast SAFELY.


I have purchased my entire DSE front and rear suspension from members of this and other forums and a few eBay finds. All these items are new, never installed, and consist of the rear leaf spring mini-tub kit, front springs and shocks, upper and lower tubular control arms.......all Detroit Speed. Why were these being sold? Replaced by q-links, $7k front subframes, etc. before ever being used. I know I'll never have enough driving skills to out handle my car! I actually describe my build as old school pro touring. I come from the drag racing end of our hobby and to me this is a killer set-up! It's easy to over build a car. Had to believe I am saying this, but yes, you can have too much horsepower.........if you do not have the driving skills to match it!

Thank you Bill for taking a stand for what you feel and believe! It's a virtue that is lacking in day to day life.

[Beach Cruiser]

Bill, I aplaud your decision. I've spent far more money fixing the loose nut between the seat and the steering wheel than I have on my car, we went through HPDE School together at VIR several years ago if you remember, my buddy Brian was your instructor. I had already dedicated all my winter projects to safety, I already have a cage but I want a better seat, steering column and a HANS device. None of those things come cheap, I could easily add 150Hp to my car for what I spend on all of that. I'm running HPDE3 in NASA now, and even at that level, there are guys/cars that shouldn't be out there. I really hate to see you take away the road coarse action with AMSCS events, I'd rather see a qualification for paticipation for that segment of the event. I know everyone aspires to being able to go "all out" and most of the cars are capable, but not all the drivers. It would be difficult for you to do it like NASA/TrackDaze/PCA with instructors, but encourage paticipants to work thier way up through those programs and reward those who have with a Track session. I had a wake up call at VIR this July when I went into turn 10 at 120+ and found I had no Brakes! Stuff happens, be preppard, it's cheaper to fix the car than it is me, nuff said.

[GNon18s]

I would just like to add that I think its waay more fun to drive for 15-20 minutes on a real racetrack than to drive for 35-55 seconds on an Autox course (on who knows what surface). I don't understand anybodys mentality that it would be just as fun to cut out the road courses and just replace them with Autox. I have been faithful to ASCS for the last three years and I like the people a lot but I cant see traveling 11 hours just to do Autox. (RTTH is on my bucket list, but the Tail of the Dragon experience would be an acceptable replacement for the road course portion in that case)

[Bill Howell]

I would just like to add that I think its waay more fun to drive for 15-20 minutes on a real racetrack than to drive for 35-55 seconds on an Autox course (on who knows what surface). I don't understand anybodys mentality that it would be just as fun to cut out the road courses and just replace them with Autox. I have been faithful to ASCS for the last three years and I like the people a lot but I cant see traveling 11 hours just to do Autox. (RTTH is on my bucket list, but the Tail of the Dragon experience would be an acceptable replacement for the road course portion in that case)

WELL....... RTTHs has never had a road course segment. It has always just been an autocross. No one, especially me has said it would be just as fun, that isn't the argument or point. The reason of the discussion is safety. If we can't be safe, it doesn't matter about the fun we are having.

[Todd in Vancouver]

For the life of me I can't remember where I watched to video but I did see a road course where they had pylons on the course creating a slalom on the straightaways and changing the angle of entry into the corners, etc. so you get the picture. The end result was a much slower lap speed and as a beginner into this type of racing I'd be all for slowing down my car and learning first, and getting faster later.

There must be a way of creating a progressional training and teching the cars so it is a graduated scale of racing. Giving those who have put in the time and built the appropriate safe cars to be able to go run full out. Also, giving people the ability the train and build their cars and work up through the ranks. Beginners first with lots of pylons and keep removing them as the progression of drivers goes up through the day and removing pylons.

Just my two cents.

[David Pozzi]

Bill, I'd like to take a small issue up with you about the term "Racing" you used in your first post. It would benefit us all to not refer to what we do as Racing. We are doing timed laps on a track which is not wheel to wheel Racing. If our events get put in the same category as real Racing, the insurance costs will be prohibitive. I think what you meant was that on the track many of us are in a Racing frame of mind and going as fast as a driver in a real race with considerable horsepower on-tap. I agree some are getting pretty close to that and the level of safety needs to be reconsidered.

Taking a step back and coming up with a safer way to have fun makes good sense. I do Vintage Racing and they require proof of a driver's school or past racing experience before you are allowed on the track to race other cars, but this is wheel to wheel for fun "Racing" - still not nearly as intense as real Racing. In addition, if you cause damage to your car or another competitors car, you are banned for at least 1 year. Each driver's meeting they emphasize safety and remind us there are no NASCAR or F1 talent scouts there looking for new drivers to sign. Tech forms are available in advance, you fill them out at home, then at the track a tech inspector goes over the form and verifies each section. The choice of track has a huge influence on risk. Many tracks have lower cornering speeds, extensive runoff with few to no barriers to hit, and no hills or areas that can flip a car.

Other tracks are less safe and should either be avoided, cones placed to slow cars down in hazardous areas, or extra time spent cautioning drivers and spending more time in follow the leader groups, - especially for the less experienced drivers. I look at track events as a relatively safe, legal place to open up my car and experience what it can do. Some friends think I'm doing something risky. I tell them I know they do back road blasts, with cars coming the other way, no safety equipment, no helmet, possibly pedestrians or animals crossing the road, & who knows what else going on. I think a race track is a lot safer place to get on it than the street, - it's built for it. The trick is to keep drivers from pushing above their ability, keep traffic/passing on course to a minimum, & keep way faster drivers from terrorizing the newbies. It is good to have slightly faster drivers pass now and then so a new guy can follow him and learn the line.

I hope you find a way to make track time possible & relatively safe.
David

[alocker]

I don't blame you either for taking a step back. Nothing is more sad than loosing someone before their time while participating in a hobby. If you do ever decide to come back, maybe research the motorcycle side of trackdays and road racing. That is where I come from and you can buy a 9 second superbike for less than $15k with zero experience. I have seen and experience level program work if enforced. NESBA was a great example of a trackday program that you had to be evaluated and bumped to the next level. These bumps also came with safety requirement for equipment and rider ie safety wiring and addition rider protection (back and chest protectors for intermediate and advanced levels).

The tracks are the next concern. I'm sure you know they are some that are more safe than others. Only run the tracks that don't have huge safety concerns.

[Jim Nilsen]

Progress is sometimes 2 steps forward and one step back.

We have evolved into a group of very talented people with some very fast cars. The last event I was at I personally stepped up so much that when I got back to the grid people asked me what happened? At first I thought they were referring to my clutch going out but it was actually about my driving. I have thought about what happened for a good while and have realized that I reached the point I had better keep myself in check for awhile. The car and my driving ability have finally become comfortable with speed after 5 years. When the sweeping corners start to look like straightaways and the straights are like long drag strips you start to go so much faster you really have to ask yourself ? What the heck am I doing that is making me go so much faster?

Perception is a is all derived from a point of view and some have been seasoned to see a point of view that is a bit more than a newcomer may be able to see it all from. It was a big awakening when I started to think about passing in places that we couldn't before and wondered if the person you might be passing knows how much room you might need for your line to make the next corner safely. It is not as much about your talent as someone else when you pass them at the wrong time and place. I waited until we got back in the grid and talked a few guys about where I was fitting in and what I was doing out there so they knew what to expect when they saw me around them. I drive safe and sort the car out for a good while before letting it go to the level it is capable of for the day. Yes cars have different capabilities on different days, at least mine does. I also am different just like the car on given days. So when it comes together it gets real fun. When you pass someone who you know just let you by because they have talked to you about it and you know know that they are going to try to keep up and stay there and if they do stay there long enough you will let them back around you. I learn to drive much better this way and it seemed to space the cars better when it happened.It seems to add a level of safety when you know the guy next to you a bit better and why he is out there. Maybe group discussions before we go out as to who is out there for what reasons?

Safety at the events has always been very good and that has been what has kept us from something big. But the level of the non race prepped cars that can do things that racecars can do without the correct level of safety equipment or lack of unsafe materials in the cabin. When I designed my interior years ago I wanted a fire resistant and fireproof materials around me so fire would be reduced or non existent. I have resisted the standard carpet material for the space age look of foil. I have an aluminum headliner and door panels. I still have a ways to go and Nomex seat coverings and floor coverings in places that can look good and be safe too are in my plans when I can afford them. I have a fire extinguisher and really want a fire suppression system, not just for me but for the car too. Stopping a fire for what ever cause before it gets out of control can save more than the suppression system will ever cost. Should we be required to have one? I'm not sure on that one and what level others are driving at but for me it is a good direction to go. Maybe a short and concise fire safety training moment should be emphasized as they already are at most events with maybe just a bit more of useful tips on using your safety equipment, maybe even a good video that can be viewed all day on a laptop somewhere by new people?

In 5 years I have gone from 300 hp to 500 hp and my car has stayed relatively the same in other aspects. The last most incredible upgrade was good brake pads. This wouldn't be much of a mention or a difference for some but it put me in a different mindset. For once I finally had confidence in stopping from high speed. I realized that with my stock brakes I was achieving what others with all the big brakes were, or was I? It is perception that changes your reality and it may not be what it seems. I just know I felt the confidence in the car and my own ability to go much faster. Brakes are the most important thing on a car and to have be the best that you can afford is good but are the really big brakes the reason we go so fast so confidently? Inexperienced drivers could get caught up in the confidence of great brakes and one untimely move can make the next turn a bad one for more than one person.

I feel good about the direction some new rules will bring. It really was fun while it lasted on the last step we made forward and now a step back is still going to be way far ahead of where we started over the years. This is not Racing and didn't start out to ever be racing but some have taken it to a level that would rival the competitiveness of real racing. We have all the parts that make racecars and it is up to the driver to become as much a part of that car and be safe as possible and use the most important safety feature ever made. "Your Conscience" Yes it is attached to your brain ,but you have to recognize when it is right!

Let your conscience be your best safety device!

I think you got it right Bill.

[GNon18s]

For the life of me I can't remember where I watched to video but I did see a road course where they had pylons on the course creating a slalom on the straightaways and changing the angle of entry into the corners, etc. so you get the picture. The end result was a much slower lap speed and as a beginner into this type of racing I'd be all for slowing down my car and learning first, and getting faster later.

There must be a way of creating a progressional training and teching the cars so it is a graduated scale of racing. Giving those who have put in the time and built the appropriate safe cars to be able to go run full out. Also, giving people the ability the train and build their cars and work up through the ranks. Beginners first with lots of pylons and keep removing them as the progression of drivers goes up through the day and removing pylons.

Just my two cents.
Carolina Motorsports park is at least one place they set up cones on the road course and used as the Autox portion. It was fun!

[Mike Holleman]

Bill, This post is no surprise to me as you and I have shared this conversation many times. I love running on road courses. I love going fast. But you have never seen me close to 10/10ths for a reason. It is way safer to run 8/10ths and way less likely to be roadkill in the event of mechcanical failure. And if you plan to run 10/10ths it had better be in a car with a full cage, fire system, at least a five point harness and a driver with a great deal of track time. You are absolutely correct that under the current lack of requirement of all of the above it is just a matter of time before we lose someone to a crash or fire. I too cannot live with that. From the Chump Car rules " The unspoken rule: This is racing...racing is dangerous. Your car may be damaged or destroyed at any time. You may be injured or killed. Do not participate in a race at any capacity, if you do not understand this and do not get in to a race car without thinking about this." I'm glad you have taken this position and I hope others that are running similar events take notice. One observation as a driver that has many laps under his belts, big tracks have greater consequences than smaller slower tracks. I love running big boy tracks but I also realize that a misstep there has greater risk. Let's keep it safe and fun.
Mike Holleman

[BMR Sales]

The very definition of Pro-Touring is that you take an old muscle car and improve the power, handeling and braking to the point it compares with modern sports cars. I think it is pretty safe to say we have been doing that almost without a second thought.

Thankfully Ron and Bill are turning the attention to the overlooked subject of building safety into our cars. I too feel that the safety equipment of our cars needs some serious attention and I am following the safety threads closely to make sure my car is safe. But I would like to see this safety discussion go one step further and include the subject of Driver Training on the level of a Bondurant or Skip Barber.

I would like to see events which include some serious performance Driver Training classes offered by experienced instructiors where the students could take the class driving their personal vehicle. I doubt anyone would argue the benefit of a Bonderant or Barber level driving class, but not everyone can easily afford the price. I think offering a performance Driving School event would attract a huge number of participants.

You don't have to do a Full 3 Day Skip Barber School ( we offer 1 & 2 Day Schools as well)

If you can't afford to Improve your Driving Skills by going to a school OR can't afford the proper Safety Equipment for your car, then IMHO, you should not be going to a Track Event!

T.C.

[vintageracer]

Bill,

Congratulations Bill on a GREAT decision from YOUR Personal Liability Perspective!

Having held a Vintage Motorsports Council (VMC) Vintage Racing Competition License with Historic Sportscar Racing (HSR) for the last 17 years I have been amazed at the LACK of ANY requirement by ANY of the promoters for the driver to prove their driving skill and competency particularly on an Open Road Course. Brings a whole new meaning to "RUN WHAT YA BRUNG"!!!!

Even MANY YEARS AGO when I first obtained my HSR Competition License I had to attend several PROFESSIONAL DRIVING schools, run 2 events with a ROOKIE strip with no incidents or problems and then and only then would the Chief Steward consider issuing to me a Full Competition License. Granted Vintage Racing is full wheel to wheel racing. Many of the cars are previous race cars. These Vintage Race Cars are also MUCH FASTER than they were when raced "Back In The Day" due to all the modern technology such as tires and other things that people incorporated into their "Old Race Car". I also have to submit current & complete medical checkup review signed by my Doctor that is submitted at license renewal every 1 or 2 years depending upon your age.

ALL of us "THINK" we are a Good and or Great driver. Go to a Professional Driving School and let the Professional Driving Instructor HUMBLE YOU by showing YOU what a $hitty driver you really are! For most of us driving a prepared car on a race track is a "Learned Skill" not a "Natural God Given Talent". Safe Track Driving is a learned skill taught to you by professionals! Go to a REAL Driving School and you will see how good these instructors really are! And remember that these instructors as good as they are are generally NOT driving in the top racing circles!

From a mechanical perspective let's pick on the Corvette guys as a great example of what many of the PT Guys also do with their cars! Out of ALL the people who buy a new Corvette there are less then 5% of those buyers (personally I think that number is MUCH lower) who can actually DRIVE THE CAR to the cars performance limit IN STOCK CONDITION/TRIM. Having said that what do many Corvette buyers immediately want to do to their car?

Add Horsepower!

HOW STUPID IS THAT???

These Corvette owners CANNOT drive THEIR Corvette to it's full potential in BONE STOCK TRIM much less modified yet they "THINK" they need "Mo Power, Better Brakes, Racing Harness's, Bigger Wheels, Better Tires" and ON AND ON!

Sounds like MOST ALL OF US here on Pro-Touring.com doesn't it?

Then you have Event Promoter's who WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT put these guys with the "Need For Speed" out there on a Open Track with other EQUALLY UNQUALIFIED DRIVER'S in cars that have way more HORSEPOWER & BRAKING capability than the driver has ability to manage with nothing more than a Skull Bucket (helmet) and a Half A$$ tech inspection!

With ALL the NEW car & truck builds that are basically "Purpose Built Track Vehicles" with a "License Plate" that are NOW being built by the PT crowd all "I" can say is:

Yes Bill, THIS IS A DISASTER WAITING TO HAPPEN!

Which one of our "FRIENDS" will it be???

Bill, KUDO'S to your decision!

I am sure there are and will continue to be other Promoters who will not give a $$hitt and continue on as they have AND continue to fill their events as there WILL always be those driver's/participants that want to "Run What They Brung" with LITTLE OR NO SUPERVISION!

Nobody likes CHANGE especially when it limit's their perceived abilities as it relates to their hobby. Face Facts Guys Jack Roush, Richard Chidress, Chip Gannassi and others ain't lookin for their next sensational driver at a PT event.

Enjoy the hobby and TRY not to KILL yourself!

[Cobra 498]

I attend an event held twice per year for Ford powered vehicles put on by COCOA (an LA based Cobra Club) the event is held at the Willow Springs big track known as the fastest track in the west. This track is very difficult and has had many "incidents" over the years. The Club has been going there for around 40 years and they have a near perfect safety record (minor incidents only). The cars that run there run the gamut from full on race cars with full protection to Factory Five Kit cars with no safety equipment at all, other than seat belts and a drivers helmet. Their success seems to be related to how the event is run starting with the best drivers meeting I have ever attended. They stress safety and cover all aspects of how people should conduct themselves and stress what not to do so that it will be a fun weekend for all in such a way that it really drives home staying within your capabilities. They also discuss incidents that have occurred with other clubs, what caused them and how to avoid them. They have a very thorough tech conducted by people that know cars and will not let an unsafe car pass. Drivers are divided into 4 groups based on KNOWN experience, if you are new you go into the slowest group, no exceptions. They have two very experienced instructors that drive all new drivers around the course along with any one else who wants to go in Vans before the start of the event and keep driving until everybody who wants to ride gets a chance. The instructors are there to give anyone a ride around the course in the instructor's car or your car or they will ride with you to help you get your lines correct. They also have a class room session during the lunch break to go over driving the track correctly and to answer any questions drivers may have. If any one is observed driving unsafely or "over their heads" they get a Black flag and have to come in for talk with the chief instructor and in some instances they are asked to leave the event. Moving up to a faster group requires the approval of the instructors or qualified observers that believe you are capable of moving up. The lower groups do not allow any passing, if you get stuck behind some one you come in and get and re-sequenced, faster groups can pass only on the two straights and only in a designated area with a point by. I am not saying this is the answer for us, but there are some good idea's we might adopt for a safe Pro touring event. Their safety record is so good that their event cost is much lower than other groups which is a plus for everybody involved.

[shortrack]

Wow does this ever sound familiar. Ive been involved in Offshore Power boating for decades and we have the same issues. Instead of Track days we have "Poker Runs'' It has got so the top Poker Run boats which are essentially open convertibles with no seat belts will out run the pure racing machines with full ballistic canopies, 5 point harnesses, on board air and chase helicopters with divers. The race boats top out at about 150mph some of these "pleasure boats" will hit 170 or 180. A typical "fast" Poker Run boat runs 140. My boat runs in the mid 70s I was going to step up to a 100mph vee bottom but decided to build a track day car and keep the boat I have.

A big point brought up earlier is that the Poker Runs like the track days are not "races" as such. By that I mean in the Poker Runs they are not an all out competition meaning rubbing and muscling for position lap after lap like the all out race boats/race cars do. This is huge. That is where the big crashes in powerboat racing and auto racing usually occur. You keep the PT cars running one at a time with no passing in corners and you have cut the risk dramatically. As a builder of a pretty fast track day car my biggest fear is a mechanical failure. Rods posts on safety were an eye opener and I think a fire suppression system may be in order rather than just a fire extinguisher.

[BMR Sales]

Bill,


From a mechanical perspective let's pick on the Corvette guys as a great example of what many of the PT Guys also do with their cars! Out of ALL the people who buy a new Corvette there are less then 5% of those buyers (personally I think that number is MUCH lower) who can actually DRIVE THE CAR to the cars performance limit IN STOCK CONDITION/TRIM. Having said that what do many Corvette buyers immediately want to do to their car?

Add Horsepower!

HOW STUPID IS THAT???

These Corvette owners CANNOT drive THEIR Corvette to it's full potential in BONE STOCK TRIM much less modified yet they "THINK" they need "Mo Power, Better Brakes, Racing Harness's, Bigger Wheels, Better Tires" and ON AND ON!

Enjoy the hobby and TRY not to KILL yourself!

I guarantee the Number is less than a 1/2 of 1 Percent. I also Instruct for the Corvette Experience and some of these are only for Corvette Owners. I have yet to be in the Right Seat with a Driver that really knew what they are doing and have been more scared Sh!tless doing this on a Short A/X Course

T.C.

[dontlifttoshift]

I attend an event held twice per year for Ford powered vehicles put on by COCOA (an LA based Cobra Club) the event is held at the Willow Springs big track known as the fastest track in the west. .

I'm guessing there aren't any times given out at this event, no one is declared a winner at the end of the day.

[vintageracer]

I guarantee the Number is less than a 1/2 of 1 Percent. I also Instruct for the Corvette Experience and some of these are only for Corvette Owners. I have yet to be in the Right Seat with a Driver that really knew what they are doing and have been more scared Sh!tless doing this on a Short A/X Course

T.C.

I certainly agree with you that the number is far less than 1%.

I was just trying to be "Gracious" to the Corvette owners out there who participate on this site!

[parsonsj]

Last weekend at Sebring, there were 15-20 Corvettes, out of a field of 120 cars. Well represented, to say the least. And quite a few know what they are doing, lol.

[Cobra 498]

I'm guessing there aren't any times given out at this event, no one is declared a winner at the end of the day.

You are correct, I check my video after the event to get times, the whole theme is about going fast without making a big mistake. Timing can bring on the Red Mist especially if you find out how slow you are compared to others. I have attended schools where they did not give out lap times until all the sessions were over which resulted in much more controlled behavior.

[GNon18s]

Last weekend at Sebring, there were 15-20 Corvettes, out of a field of 120 cars. Well represented, to say the least. And quite a few know what they are doing, lol.

I dont think these guys realize how many of the "Pro-touring" guys also drive late model Corvettes (including Bill H.) Lol

[RS_Customs]

Bill,

I know we have had some safety conversation in our travels and I very much stand behind the decision to to keep our friends safe! There is a lot of support for this.

As I've said before, I appreciate all you do for this hobby!!

Robert

[69*Goat]

Well, I for one am planning to take some sort of driving course early in 2014. Now that I have gotten my car to the point I want it, it's capabilities have exceeded my knowledge, and ability. The last thing I want to do is get it out and get hurt, killed, or wrinkle sheet metal.

There comes a point when a man's got to know his limitations, and the limitations of the machine he is in control of.

[71duster]

way to go bill! I have had similar conversations with some close friends about this very topic. I know I run my junk pretty hard,but some people just do not know their limits,and that person will be the one to get it. I could be a road course junkie like a lot of us,but not with the really sweet rides we have. thanks for watching our backs!

[PT Sportwagon]

Bill,
Your post is right on the money. I agree that with the more power, more speed, more, more ,more. That is coming down the pike. IT would be inevitable that something where to happen. Thankfully nothing has. But as everybody knows murphy's law is a bitch. A major incident could be a set back. Most of the cars running are 40+ years old. The key word there is old. some built from a rusty pile found in a field. While a builder can put in the best parts available. It takes that one weak link to make for a very bad day. While I myself does not have any road course experience. I am signed up to participate in the ST Octane Academy offered by Ford for owners of the new Focus ST and Fiesta ST.


Tim

[xxxturbo6]

Bill,

I have known you for a long time when I first started plumbing in your cabins and now 17 yrs later I am attending every one of your RTTH events and having a blast. With that said I know you and the love you have for this hobby and for our friends and their safety, Your doing the right thing! As you may have wondered before why I haven't attended any of the Road course events, it's not because I couldn't, it's because I was in one tragic wreck already and very lucky to be here today. I don't need to be in another one where I may not be so lucky that time.... I have purposely stayed away from those events for the safety reason alone, plus I know I would push the limits right to the edge and I can't afford that with a wife and two kids.... I don't want to build a race car in street car clothing like some have. I am plenty happy with the RTTH events as they are, I just attend them to "Have Fun"..... I feel an autocross is pretty safe on a flat parking lot and it's proven to be that so far.. I would like to see more Speed/Stop challenge's though instead of More & More auto-x laps...

You are doing the right thing Bill... I know you will figure this out!


Scot W.

[SicMonte]

Bill,

I have known you for a long time when I first started plumbing in your cabins and now 17 yrs later I am attending every one of your RTTH events and having a blast. With that said I know you and the love you have for this hobby and for our friends and their safety, Your doing the right thing! As you may have wondered before why I haven't attended any of the Road course events, it's not because I couldn't, it's because I was in one tragic wreck already and very lucky to be here today. I don't need to be in another one where I may not be so lucky that time.... I have purposely stayed away from those events for the safety reason alone, plus I know I would push the limits right to the edge and I can't afford that with a wife and two kids.... I don't want to build a race car in street car clothing like some have. I am plenty happy with the RTTH events as they are, I just attend them to "Have Fun"..... I feel an autocross is pretty safe on a flat parking lot and it's proven to be that so far.. I would like to see more Speed/Stop challenge's though instead of More & More auto-x laps...

You are doing the right thing Bill... I know you will figure this out!


Scot W.

I agree 100%. I do take my car out on road courses but they scare the ever living crap out of me...and I drive like a grandma on them.

Bill you have my support 100%.

[1966longroof]

Bill, any details to share yet????

[alphaenvirmgt]

Bill,
While we have never met, I appreciate your efforts to promote Pro-touring. I attended RTTH in Tennessee last year at the insistence of Scott at GNS Performance and became firmly hooked! I applauded your efforts to make our sport safer. Never ignore your gut!!
Conrad Carter
Albemarle, NC
66 years young and spending my kids inheritance!