Windows Tablet car install

[Phil 68]

As part of the new console I'm going to install a tablet PC.

Unfortunately its got to be running Windows (and the real thing, not that Windows RT)

This is because the engine management software that came with my EFI (Powerjection III) only runs on Windows. On top of letting me play with the EFI settings, this also has a pretty neat dashboard display of engine status. Side benefit I guess is that I can bluetooth stream audio from the tablet to my Alpine head unit.

The tablet will be small, 8" format to fit the space. That means likely Dell Venue 8 or Acer Iconia W4. From what I've read these charge through the USB port.

So...
- I need a 12V DC powered USB hub, to get juice to the tablet and to get the 2 USB outputs from the EFI and Fuel Mgmt modules in. Wire this in to a circuit that's only live on "Key On / Acc"
- I need some sort of software so that the PC comes to life when it gets juice from the USB Hub, brings up my dashboard software, and also goes to sleep a set time after "Key Off". If this was Android I understand there's an app called Tasker for this. But what about Windows?

Would love to hear from anyone that's done this and sorted things out.

Thanks

[Ron Sutton]

Me too, as I am considering the same thing for the passenger side of my PT car.

[CRead01]

for software you can check out an app called tasker. should take care of you. no info on the usb hub

[Phil 68]

Tasker is an Android app, not Windows. Need to find the equivalent for Windows...

[Ron Sutton]

Phil, what brand of tablet are you thinking about purchasing? ... Surface Pro, Dell, other?

Like you, I need it to run Windows 8.1 (not RT).

[Phil 68]

Phil, what brand of tablet are you thinking about purchasing? ... Surface Pro, Dell, other?

Like you, I need it to run Windows 8.1 (not RT).

I'm looking to the 8" tablets, as the 10" take a lot of real estate to install in a console. That narrows it down to very few choices:
- Acer Iconia W3. Gets really lousy reviews for its display, but about to be replaced
- Acer Iconia W4. Great reviews, but not released yet
- Dell Venue 8 Pro. Available now, seems like a nice little unit

For a 12V USB Hub, search on CNX-P5USB It can be configured so that it stays powered up for a certain amount of time after "Key Off", then shuts down. Might be the best out there for purposes of supplying power to the tablet while also getting multiple USB devices hooked up.

Cheers
Phil

[scott_fx]

i think your best bet is riderunner (formally known as 'road runner'http://guino.home.insightbb.com/roadrunner.html) for your front end. This will also allow you to scrap the alpine head unit if you want, but it also will allow you to embed or at least auto-launch your efi program at start up. The creator also built these i/o boards (i have 4 of them that are sitting in a box if you want to buy a used one) they can easily interact with riderunner and you can use them to control 12v functions of your car (i.e. power windows)... or do read digital inputs (i.e. you can wire it up to a switch and make the computer do something) it's also fully customizable. (i linked to a custom set up i didn in my boat below). and here are some skins for it http://www.mp3car.com/rr-skins/

it takes a little bit more to set up that software but it's very customizable. I love it. If you want something more restrictive but a bit easier to set up, then there is a nice front end program called 'centrafuse' i used it initially in my corvette build. http://www.centrafuse.com/us/


for powering look at the m2-atx. you'll have to modify it but i has a startup/shut down controller built in that will handle engine cranking. if you ground the green pin, i think it was pin 13. then it'll act just like a bench power supply. at that point you can just tap off hte 5v rail. now that i think about it... only go that route if you scrap the idea of a tablet and go the hard install route.

since you have a tablet, you could get away with this:
http://store.mp3car.com/DC_Powered_4_Port_USB_Hub_CNX_P5USB_12v_and_24v_p/adt-015.htm


i have an old write up for my car pc install on a car i had years back:
http://www.mp3car.com/show-off-your-project/51708-1999-c5-corvette-conv.html

from my experience, the biggest concern is screen visibility. make sure you're happy with how much the screen gets washed out on the tablet before you spend the time on the install. AKA make sure you can return the unit...

if you want to go completely untethered, you can do that too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUr1leHiZ58

that was from a [ultimately] scrapped boat pc build i did. Link if you want to look through it for other ideas:
http://www.mp3car.com/worklogs/146616-1999-malibu-wakesetter-vlx-boat.html



if you dont want to just do a tablet, then it opens you up to some nicer 'transflective' displays that will be more readable in the sun. This will be slightly more complicated as you'll need to get a motherboard, hard drive and install/configure everything yourself.
here is a great option; though it's 10" it's may be less bulky then the 10" tablet and you can always mount it vertically:
http://www.adafruit.com/products/1303?gclid=COj0pZn4prsCFYxufgodhQgAUw
here is a budget 7" screen:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-SAMSUNG-7-LED-LCD-Touch-Screen-Monitor-Kit-Outdoor-/110659973152?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c3d93020#ht_15332wt_905
and he also has a more expensive yet a lot brighter screen available as well.


Another thing i want to just point out. having a touchscreen in the car kinda sucks and is pretty unsafe. you need to take your eyes off the road to see what you're touching on the screen. I lived with the touchscreen for a couple years but it wasn't ideal. on my second build in the corvette i actually integrated a 3d connexion space nav (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?gclid=CJrgkdvfprsCFUhxQgodLRcAag&Item=N82E16826154012&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Mice-_-N82E16826154012&ef_id=UpThnQAAAetsfNiX:20131210225333:s) and was going to set that up for a tactile input device. Here is what it looked like after the install: http://i.onfinite.com/mfC3hZNqd.jpg

[Ron Sutton]

I'm looking to the 8" tablets, as the 10" take a lot of real estate to install in a console. That narrows it down to very few choices:
- Acer Iconia W3. Gets really lousy reviews for its display, but about to be replaced
- Acer Iconia W4. Great reviews, but not released yet
- Dell Venue 8 Pro. Available now, seems like a nice little unit

For a 12V USB Hub, search on CNX-P5USB It can be configured so that it stays powered up for a certain amount of time after "Key Off", then shuts down. Might be the best out there for purposes of supplying power to the tablet while also getting multiple USB devices hooked up.

Cheers
Phil

Thanks. I'm looking to use a larger tablet & mount it to the dash ... if the passenger can reach the dash. I need to do some measuring first.

.

[scott_fx]

Thanks. I'm looking to use a larger tablet & mount it to the dash ... if the passenger can reach the dash. I need to do some measuring first.

.

look into the fujitsu stylistic series. they have some with transflective displays and are pretty inexpensive on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/310776918617?lpid=82
they are larger so the form may not work for you, but if you're doing a custom center console it could work. If i were doing it, i'd remove the bezel then fill the holez and flatten it out by adding abs plastic using welding technique. Then reinstall the display and it'll give it a oem fit and finish.

[liquidh8]

Scott, I can't see you pics over at mp3car. I am a member there too.

[scott_fx]

Scott, I can't see you pics over at mp3car. I am a member there too.
there seems to be an issue with the hosting site i'm using. i can't see them either and when i go to the hosting site to view the pictures they just hang on the load. I'll try to update this thread when it's working again

just got this back from my hosting site:

our service provider (the one who runs the servers for us) are having a issue with our image server. There is a drive failure and they are having trouble recovering the drives but are working on it continuously. The are performing another restore as we speak, but unfortunately this takes time (12-15 hours if everything goes smooth). They have assured me that there has been no data loss. guess it'll be best to check it tomorrow

[scott_fx]

slowly updating the thread. the first bunch of pics are there


here is the library of the car pc in the meantime if you want to see more

v01
http://scott_fx.onfinite.com/album/479778/
v02:
http://scott_fx.onfinite.com/album/1019181/

[liquidh8]

NIce, you have a lot of pictures in there!

[scott_fx]

Thanks, I tried to document as much as i could but i did get wrapped up in production a bit and didnt take as many pics as i'd have liked.

let me know if you have any questions. I'd love to help in anyway i can... I know i use this forum enough and just want to give back.

[rossmacd]

Thanks, I tried to document as much as i could but i did get wrapped up in production a bit and didnt take as many pics as i'd have liked.

let me know if you have any questions. I'd love to help in anyway i can... I know i use this forum enough and just want to give back.

If you don't mind me tagging on here, can you tell me more about that know that you used? It reminds me of the know BMW uses in their cars. Does it operate similarly? Sorry for the noob q, never seen one before.

[scott_fx]

my system was done... probably 8-9 years ago so the technology has greatly improved. But i used a mini-itx board (model: via m1000) and a specially designed power supply that monitors the key state. when you start the car it turns the computer on, when you take the key out of the ignition it continues to provide power to the board for a couple minutes while it 'presses' the power button to shut down the computer safely. Then i used a 7" touchscreen as in input device. that is pretty plug and play. finally you just need some sort of 'front end' program that is the gui (graphical user interface). From there you can add a soundcard or dac and pipe the audio to an amplifier. it'll completely replace the need for a headunit/radio

it does act like what bmw uses in their cars and you can even get 'skins' for the front end program that look like the bmw interface. the thing that is different between the two is that bmw uses "idrive" which utilizes a knob instead of a touchscreen. There are ways to simulate that. i'm designing one from the ground up right now using an arduino microcontroller. An easier version is using a 3dconnexion 'space nav' device. this does require some setup.

there are other options now, like android tablet or ipad based systems. each have pros and cons. The pc based system does have a decade of knowledge backing it up right now and have a ton of options available.

i hope that answered your question.

[rossmacd]

Sorry, I quoted the wrong thing; I was wondering specifically (though I appreciate the other information) on the 3dconnexion part. It looks pretty slick, and I'd like to integrate something similar into my console. I agree that the touchscreen is cumbersome and I'd like to have something else for the interface.

What kind of setup is involved?

[scott_fx]

To be 100% honest, i sold the car right after I did my second version of the install (with the 3dconnexion) so i didn't get it fully integrated into the system. but... it's basically a common HID (human input device). Through the software that comes with it you can modify how you want it to work. i believe there are a total of 8 axises with that device. iirc you can modify these in the driver package that comes with the device. for instance, if you find that the 'twist' functionaily isn't needed and sometimes gives false readings, then you just disable that portion of it. From there it's just a matter of mapping the functions to correlate with what you want it to do with your front end software.

it is also possible to use that device w/o having a pc and using an arduino micro controller to interpret the actions.

as for the installation. I took the 3" to 2" abs pipe reducer and graphed that into my console in order to get a uniform recessed angle. then i graphed the spacenav (removed from it's base) to the 2" opening
88305


another option that i'm exploring right now is a standard rotary encoder (the type that 'clicks' as you turn it... like the volume knob on a stereo receiver) and a set of four buttons that can detect when your finger is just touching it as well as when it's being pressed. this allows you to have a display (be it lcd or even led lights) that will allow you to have a visual confirmation on which button your finger is on. The added benefit of this is not to have to look down at your console for verification of which button you're touching.:
88310

[rossmacd]

Sweet. What I really wish I could find is something that provided haptic feedback. I was just on the mp3car forums and saw that there was something in development years ago, but it doesn't look like it never went anywhere.

http://www.mp3car.com/input-devices/95509-new-product-force-feedback-haptic-encoder.html

All this stuff is WAY beyond my understanding, but not beyond my interest.

[scott_fx]

Sweet. What I really wish I could find is something that provided haptic feedback. I was just on the mp3car forums and saw that there was something in development years ago, but it doesn't look like it never went anywhere.

http://www.mp3car.com/input-devices/95509-new-product-force-feedback-haptic-encoder.html

All this stuff is WAY beyond my understanding, but not beyond my interest.


yeah, i tried getting my hands on that a few years ago and couldn't find one anywhere.
An option i was looking into is hapkit:
http://hapkit.stanford.edu/
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/hapkit-board-p-1622.html?cPath=6_7
i think you can replace the lever with a knob edit: it would be difficult to replace the lever with a knob, the lever has a force sensing resistor (increases voltage the harder you push on it). that is what gives the micro-controller the info to know how much to resist your movement)
http://hapkit.stanford.edu/about.html

i have one of the low resistance motors, i just dont have enough to devote to a project like that right now.

a possible option for a cheap force changing input device (not haptic though) would to have an encoder that was free spinning (or use a cheap hall effect sensor that can detect rotation of a magnet) and then have two different cam profiles (possibly a geared tooth and a lobed cam) then just have a servo apply a sort of springed tooth to give you different force feedback.

edit 2: another idea i had was to use a disc brake assembly from an RC car. you'd then be able to adjust the force required to spin the knob based on how much you spin it.

I think this is getting far away from the OP's original thread. wonder if the mods would move the non applicable posts to a new thread?

[Phil 68]

I'm looking to the 8" tablets, as the 10" take a lot of real estate to install in a console. That narrows it down to very few choices:
- Acer Iconia W3. Gets really lousy reviews for its display, but about to be replaced
- Acer Iconia W4. Great reviews, but not released yet
- Dell Venue 8 Pro. Available now, seems like a nice little unit

For a 12V USB Hub, search on CNX-P5USB It can be configured so that it stays powered up for a certain amount of time after "Key Off", then shuts down. Might be the best out there for purposes of supplying power to the tablet while also getting multiple USB devices hooked up.

Cheers
Phil

I picked up the little 8" Dell tonight. Was able to drop the resolution to 800x600, at which point the EFI software nicely fills the screen (this software, for the Powerjection III, has a fixed window size)

Need to finish the console and see how it works.
95164

[scott_fx]

nice. i tested one of those but the glaring issues (pun intended) was how hard it was to read when light hit it. if i were you i'd throw it in your car temporarily and drive around with it for a bit to see if you're happy with it. second being, how are you going to deal with the start up and shut down of the unit and powering it while connecting usb to it?

[Phil 68]

Installed.
96034
Yes, there's glare in the daytime. Main thing is I can start a data log from the EFI at any time, via the touch screen. And when not driving, I can pop it out of the console for use (change a calibration file, look at a log file, whatever). And its cool. :)

10 hour battery life, so at this time I'm not worried about the issues of charging with the microUSB and using it for data at the same time. There are some workarounds out there in the forums for that.

[scott_fx]

cool. it's a great tablet none the less. almost held on to it... just to have one around :)

while not data logging are you going to use it for media/music playback?

[Phil 68]

Will try using it for music soon - should be able to Bluetooth to the Alpine head unit instead of cable to the aux in, keeping the install as clean as possible for a tablet that is planned to be quick and easy to pop in and out.

[scott_fx]

Will try using it for music soon - should be able to Bluetooth to the Alpine head unit instead of cable to the aux in, keeping the install as clean as possible for a tablet that is planned to be quick and easy to pop in and out.

i'd suggest using a small usb hub and a usb soundcard or dac. it'll save you from having to connect to through bt all the time and you already will be hooking plugging in the usb cable for your data logging. I do have another solution for you, it's wireless but a bit more involved in the setup.
here is an untethered solution i worked out for a boat project i was working on:
http://youtu.be/CUr1leHiZ58
it involves adding a router and a network usb adapter. but it is wireless and it would solve your charging issue as well. as you can see from the video i have an external hard drive, a dac, and various usb relay boards.

for music, look into riderunner (that is whats in that video as well) you can use it as your front end for music and gps and you should be able to also launch your efi program from within the program as well