Turn corners and run 8's??

[LS1NOVA]

Thats the goal Im after. Minimal suspension changes and wheel/tire swap.

I wish there was an event that allowed a guy to show the true potential in all areas. 2-3 mile road course, autox, drag racing, all in one weekend. LSfest was pretty close but lacked road course and didnt allow drag tires on a drag track (lame).

Anyone interested in something like that? We have a track here in MN (Brainerd International Raceway) that has the facility to host it.

[srh3trinity]

I think it would be quite the feat. I wanted to see if the Unfair build could have accomplished it, but it met an unfortunate demise.

[72BBSwinger]

Looks like you already have the power. Take some weight off the nose and run at least a 12" tread slick and you should nail it.

[Kenova]

I wish there was an event that allowed a guy to show the true potential in all areas. 2-3 mile road course, autox, drag racing, all in one weekend.

Car Craft's Real Street Eliminator comes (came?) close. It used to be an invitational event whenever they decided to run it. Not sure how they run it now.
It had the potential to grow into a pretty decent event but they seemed to have dropped the ball when it came to promoting it.

Ken

[Ben@SpeedTech]

I agree and would love to watch an American muscle car super car event. With the huge differences in drag and cornering suspension designs, this would be a killer task to tackle.

I can see the point in LS' "keep the same tires on the car", but really this is saying "we know no one will get any traction so we get to see who knows how to feather the throttle and who doesn't." With that philosophy some cars are running 13s at 130 mph, and we never get to see the true potential of the car, just a somewhat unsafe situation where the car is breaking the tires loose in every gear and half way down the 1/4. We saw this happen with a fast BMW at a recent local drag event we sponsored.

Some folks have different tires they throw on for autocross events and swap back to street tires later. In a real life situation wouldn't most of us have a separate set of drag tires dedicated to that form of racing if we participated in those events? I do for my wagon. Why not allow tire swaps for drag too? Let's just say all events have to be DOT tires, keep the 200 tread wear for the curves and maybe limit it specifically to drag "Radials" rather than allow disguised "DOT" drag slicks, much like we do with autoX and road course events.

Just my .02

[LS1NOVA]

I think it would be quite the feat. I wanted to see if the Unfair build could have accomplished it, but it met an unfortunate demise.

So did I!!


Looks like you already have the power. Take some weight off the nose and run at least a 12" tread slick and you should nail it.

Im going to try to take a little wieght off but that gets spendy fast. It pulls the wheels an inch or two now on Et Streets so the traction is there at the launch but spins a ways out when I bring the power in too fast. Progressive boost controller should cure that.


Car Craft's Real Street Eliminator comes (came?) close. It used to be an invitational event whenever they decided to run it. Not sure how they run it now.
It had the potential to grow into a pretty decent event but they seemed to have dropped the ball when it came to promoting it.

Ken

I ran CC's RSE event at the show in St Paul MN this summer. Its a joke really. Dyno and very small auto x. Could be huge if they moved the show to Brainerd.




I agree and would love to watch an American muscle car super car event. With the huge differences in drag and cornering suspension designs, this would be a killer task to tackle.

I can see the point in LS' "keep the same tires on the car", but really this is saying "we know no one will get any traction so we get to see who knows how to feather the throttle and who doesn't." With that philosophy some cars are running 13s at 130 mph, and we never get to see the true potential of the car, just a somewhat unsafe situation where the car is breaking the tires loose in every gear and half way down the 1/4. We saw this happen with a fast BMW at a recent local drag event we sponsored.

Some folks have different tires they throw on for autocross events and swap back to street tires later. In a real life situation wouldn't most of us have a separate set of drag tires dedicated to that form of racing if we participated in those events? I do for my wagon. Why not allow tire swaps for drag too? Let's just say all events have to be DOT tires, keep the 200 tread wear for the curves and maybe limit it specifically to drag "Radials" rather than allow disguised "DOT" drag slicks, much like we do with autoX and road course events.

Just my .02

Agree 100%

[DJ Mabe]

I think this could be a huge event. Look how big the hot rod fastest street car or pump gas drag shootouts have gotten. Those are both really large events. Why couldn't/wouldn't Popular Hot Rodding put on a Fastest Muscle Car or Pro-Touring shootout or whatever they want to call it? I think this would really promote this build of cars more and bring it to the public. Make the cars do a street challenge with a 2hr drive to a track event. Then have a road course/auto x event, then back in the car for another drive to a drag strip. Have the cars drive to each event on pump gas and run a single type of tire for all legs of the drive/competitions. I run an R compound tire on the street and at the drag strip. I know you aren't going to hook nearly as hard at the strip but I think the point of these competitions is to show the versatility of these cars. They have the run to the hills but it's really not promoted or taken to the next level. I think if you include the drag event you will bring a lot more guys into the group. That's were most of us got our kicks in the beginning.

[Ron Sutton]

Have the cars drive to each event on pump gas and run a single type of tire for all legs of the drive/competitions.

Your point is different than Ben's & LS1Nova. They are saying to allow tire changes, especially for the drags, so we can see the real potential of each car ... not the limitations of the tire.

I would participate in this type of event with my new build for sure, if they allow tire changes & tuning between sessions. :)

.

[SLO_Z28]

About 10 years ago my co worker built a car that did exactly what you are talking about, ran in the 8's and still turned. 7.0L TT C5.

[howehot]

Love the concept. Now someone needs to step up and make it happen.

[MrQuick]

Love the concept. Now someone needs to step up and throw a ton of money at it.
fixed

[shmoov69]

I'd possibly be game, if it was central US.... And I'm not broke at that time. Both financially and the Camaro!! DOOH!!

I wouldn't run 8's for sure, but it'd be solidly in the 10's somewhere.

[Nicks67GTO]

Ive had this exact idea running through my head for a few years now, its a rough concept that would need refining so bear with me....

It would be in Iowa and be drag week style. No help or pit crews, only a passenger that can help if needed. No tag along or support vehicles. Trailer is ok but youre pulling it with your hotrod. No major fixes or adjustments allowed. Jet changes, sway bar adjustments , shock adjustments, and maybe a tire change, belts, gaskets etc. Small fix stuff. If you blow an engine, tranny or rear you're done for the day.

Drivers meeting in Earlville Friday night and to get tech'd in for the tracks so it wouldnt be necessary at every track. It would run from sun up until sundown on a Saturday and you would have to make it the whole way or youre DQ'd. Call it the "Ultimate Iowa Street Car Challenge" or UISCC. Start at Earlville, Ia make your 1/4 mile passes and take your best ticket with you. Drive an hour or so to Cedar Falls Raceway and make 1/4 mile passes and take your best ticket with you. Then on to an auto X track set up somewhere half way between CedarFalls and Council Bluffs to split the drive up. Run the Auto-X and take your best time with you. Then on to Council Bluffs to make a pass at the Roadcourse.

Lowest accumulated time on pump gas wins. Street cars dont run race gas. Sorry.

3 classes. I want to keep the classes simple so theres lots of competition at all 3 levels....

1-Old school N/A: A naturally asperated production engines designed before the 90's. Stock block only.
2-New school N/A: Any engine designed after 1990 with a stock block.
3-Power adder. Any engine with a power adder OR an aftermarket block.

Its just been a thought ive had rolling through my head but i have no idea how to get the ball rolling on it. Sound like fun?? Is it do-able?

[AMSOILGUY]

Sounds like a blast! You need an event website or UISCC association. Getting the tracks on board might be the hardest thing. I believe Cedar Falls Raceway has a different owner then Earlville but maybe you could get both on board. I know nothing about that road course except I would love to have a go at it in the future. Maybe auto x in Des Moines they do it for Good Guys at the fair grounds. With that said events like this are always looking for sponsors. Call me if you can get the ball rolling!

[howehot]

Iowa speedway in Newton has a road course inside the track. Do this coupled with an Iowa SCCA autocross, Waterloo, Cedar Rapids, Oskaloosa. This would be a hoot. I'm in!

[srh3trinity]

The OLOA had two events in one day this last year that included a road course followed up by a drag strip. The drag race was rained out. They have to run the same tires for all events of course

[Nicks67GTO]

Iowa speedway in Newton has a road course inside the track. Do this coupled with an Iowa SCCA autocross, Waterloo, Cedar Rapids, Oskaloosa. This would be a hoot. I'm in!

How about 5 stops.

-Earlville 1/4 mile
-Waterloo @ Hawkeye for Auto-X
-CF raceway 1/4 mile
-Cedar rapids?? Auto X
-Newton Iowa Speedway Roadcourse to finish

That would be about 240 miles of driving between tracks. Thats not unrealistic at all in a sun up till sundown day.

Heres the big problem. Its why ive never done anything about it.....As far as stuff like this goes i'm just a guy with a small wallet, a GTO half way through a PT conversion, no real contacts, and absolutly no idea on how to go about getting the ball rolling on something like this.


Got any ideas on how to get it started?

[72BBSwinger]

If its in Iowa id be all over it in the N/A class. Once my car is back together, eventually.....

[shortrack]

throw a 1.5 mi oval in there too

[shmoov69]

Sheesh guys, might as well throw a rally event in there to at this rate!!! LoL!

[Typhoon1015]

I like the idea and have talked with LS1NOVA about this before. A simple drag protion with allowable shock, tune, and tire changes. A autocross portion with 200 treadwear rules, and a roadcourse portion. A cruise portion and design portion for points.

LS Fest is the closest, but it would need a roadcourse as well as allow tire changes.

Wouldn't you all love to see a car click off a 8 or 9 second at the strip, swap on the large tires/wheels, adjust shocks, and then throw it around a autocross and road course. I could see it being a weekend thing, friday for autocross, saturday road course, sunday for drags. Some type of dinner cruise one of the nights. A picture of the car at the restraunt and recipt of the bill would get you cruise points.

[howehot]

Iowa Speedway could allow all 3. They in the past used pit road for an 1/8 mile drag.

[1966longroof]

Cool ideas. Only 1400 miles to Iowa......I'd drive the Wagon. Sounds fun if it can happen. Best of Luck !!!

[Nicks67GTO]

Iowa Speedway could allow all 3. They in the past used pit road for an 1/8 mile drag.

What if it was structured with 2 tracks

-CF raceway for the 1/4 mile from 6-11AM. Then drive 100 miles to Newton/Iowa speedway. You cant leave CF until 10AM and you have to be in Newton by 1pm to qualify.

-Once @ the Iowa Speedway in Newton you have until 6pm to get the Auto X and Roadcourse done. That would be a heck of a lot easier to coordinate.

My other thought is that if you have to change tires from the 1/4 mile to the street/auto x, you would be in the power adder class. Maybe call the power adder class unlimited?

Again im just thinking about loud.....

[LS1NOVA]

Keep brainstorming guys, I think this could really turn into an awesome event. Having everything in one day is pretty crazy imo. Im more for Justins idea of a weekend event. Drag racing portion needs to be 1/4 mile.

[Steve Chryssos]

How quick an ET have you run so far?

[sccacuda]

I went to the inaugural Year One Experience at Road Atlanta and it was setup loosely like that. The let you run in groups of 5 behind a pace car on the big track, but kept speeds below a hundred. They had an autocross setup in the infield as well as a brake stop challenge. Everybody trucked over to the dragstrip on Sunday and made runs. It wasn't setup as a competition, but could easily be made into one. Some of marketing people on here should talk with Year One or Goodmark up in Atlanta and see about putting something together.

That being said, a venue that has a strip and roadcourse in one would be ideal. Road Atlanta is not a forgiving track. The walls are pretty close, and any "offs" are usually rewarded with bent sheet metal. VIR or something that is all in one and PLENTY of runoff.

[LS1NOVA]

How quick an ET have you run so far?

Its been 9.53 at 150 using around 75% of available power due to traction issues. New boost controller and Mickey 275 Pro's should fix that.

[71RS/SS396]

If you're going to allow cars to run drag specific tires for the drag strip then to be fair about it the cars optimized for auto-x/road course should be allowed to run "R" compound tires for that part of the competition otherwise you'll slant the results towards cars more suited for drag racing.

[LS1NOVA]

If you're going to allow cars to run drag specific tires for the drag strip then to be fair about it the cars optimized for auto-x/road course should be allowed to run "R" compound tires for that part of the competition otherwise you'll slant the results towards cars more suited for drag racing.

I agree, R compound should be allowed but needs to be street legal. No slicks in any category.

[ho428]

Memphis International Raceway could do it. Central location, 1/4 mile drag, 1.8 mile road course and Autocross all in one place.
Steet legal tires, drag radials, R compounds. Somehow have to set the rules where you can't "swap" or remove suspension componets, only tune them.

[dontlifttoshift]

I agree, R compound should be allowed but needs to be street legal. No slicks in any category.

Hoosier A6s are DOT stamped.....

[Steve Chryssos]

Its been 9.53 at 150 using around 75% of available power due to traction issues. New boost controller and Mickey 275 Pro's should fix that.

That's freakin' awesome. I'm sure you are one of only a hand full of pro-touring cars that has been in the nines. What are you running for suspension?

The nice thing about drag racing is that they give you that little slip of paper at the end of each run. It would be nice to have one or more all inclusive events, but to me, it's enough just to show up at a track day and/or autocross with your time slip and have at it. I think there's a lot to be learned and showcased about available traction from various brands of pro-touring suspension. That discussion is just as relevant at 9.53 or even 10.53.

[Steve Chryssos]

If you're going to allow cars to run drag specific tires for the drag strip then to be fair about it the cars optimized for auto-x/road course should be allowed to run "R" compound tires for that part of the competition otherwise you'll slant the results towards cars more suited for drag racing.

I fully agree, but the tire subject is always hornet's nest waiting to be poked. In fact, there will be yahoos who think this concept won't be legit unless the 8 or even 9 second run comes on regular street tires. Like that's safe or realistic.

[LS1NOVA]

That's freakin' awesome. I'm sure you are one of only a hand full of pro-touring cars that has been in the nines. What are you running for suspension?

The nice thing about drag racing is that they give you that little slip of paper at the end of each run. It would be nice to have one or more all inclusive events, but to me, it's enough just to show up at a track day and/or autocross with your time slip and have at it. I think there's a lot to be learned and showcased about available traction from various brands of pro-touring suspension. That discussion is just as relevant at 9.53 or even 10.53.

In the interest of full disclosure, I did swap the front coilover springs from 450lb to 250lb to get some travel in the front end and weight transfer but now that its decently leaving the line Ill be trying 350s or maybe even back to the 450s so that its just shock settings. Unhook swaybar, dial in shocks, wheel/tire change, ready to go!

[Steve Chryssos]

That's important. ..And interesting. We use RideTech Airbags. Not only do we get to soften the front spring rate without pulling the sway bar, but we can also jack up the rear to fit taller drag radials and preload the right rear. We dump the rebound from the front shocks as well. To a small degree, the talk about 8 second ET's is a small distraction. Running 9's AND clicking off good lap times AND being a true street car is a big accomplishment Case in point: A million bucks, 0-60 in under 3 seconds, 10 second ET's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAJiaDtP68E

What does the Schwartz Performance TA run in the 1/4?

[Ron Sutton]

Running 9's AND clicking off good lap times AND being a true street car is a big accomplishment Case in point: A million bucks, 0-60 in under 3 seconds, 10 second ET's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAJiaDtP68E



Very good point.

[LS1NOVA]

Schwartz TA ran 11.6ish iirc at the PHR shootout. Its not optimized for drag and was on 200 treadwear tires so lots of improvement could be made. Im sure its a heavy car so Id imagine low 10's/ high 9's all out. Hell of a car though.

FWIW, mine has run 10.22 at 147 in full autox trim, Nitto NT05s, swaybar hooked up, etc. Couldnt hook anymore power.

[GrabberGT]

I kind of like the concept of one car to do it all. Whats wrong with 2-3 sets of tires? Slicks, R-comp and Street. its 3 different races all on the same day with transit between them. Give points out for places in each competition. The most points at the end of the days wins. (This keeps each discipline evenly weighted) If you want or need to change out suspension components, so-be-it. As long as you make it to the start line at your given time its fine by me. Its about who has the fastest do-it-all car right? Not do it-all setup. If thats the case, you might as well go back to street tires only.

[srh3trinity]

There is such a big difference between cars that run 8's, 9's and 10's too. Cost goes up and on streetability declines. Still, it would be a great contest to see who has the most versatile street car.

[SRD art]

I still say any tire, drag or turney, that is a slick with a couple grooves isn't a street tire, even with DOT stamped on it somewhere. Those should maybe be outlawed from street car events IMO. Real radials with real grooves should be what the Dr. ordered. I've put street miles on full on Firestone slicks, wrinkle wall M&Hs with only 2 circumfrancial (sp?) grooves, and my BFG Drag radials. I felt much more safe and less nervous with the BFGs, by far.

Part of my point is that who drives to the autocross with "DOT" road course slicks on the car? Aren't those type cars typically trailered to autocross events? Much like a drag car with slicks is? MANY folks take along extra tires and swap at the track. It's normal to do that and I'm not sure who made the rule or where it says in the rules of pro-touring somewhere that doing so makes your car not a street car anymore.

The other part of my point is it's a safety issue at the track. Running really fast at the drag strip on 200-300 compound street/ autocross type tires borderlines stupidity. Breaking the tires loose in 3rd gear at 110 mph would be like driving on ice and doesn't make an event fun, it makes it scary. That's why I suggest to allow drag tires where they NEED to be. I'm really surprised PHR and LS fest hasn't allowed drag tire changes, that's a law suit waiting to happen. Maybe it's just that they feel none of the cars are really fast enough to warrant drag tires, but from what I've seen I would have to disagree.

[dontlifttoshift]

A law suit? Really?

The idea that breaking the tires loose at 110 in a straight line on a prepped drag strip is unsafe but doing the same at a road course is okay.....that's absurd.

I don't care to argue about Pro Touring's roots or its definition but when all the event promoters held their ground at 200 TW despite what anyone else was doing says to me that it is all about street tires. SCCA is adopting 200 treadwear for Solo competition as well. Just like people learned to make drag radials hook up and work, the same can be done for 200 tw tires, if not, so what? The playing field is level for all competitors in all segments of the event.

There are guys that drive A6s to events, they are not many, and I agree, not smart, but it does happen.

You guys don't want to hear this.....
Drag Racing = fast car
RoadRace/AutoX = fast driver

But running 9s on a street tire? That takes one hell of a shoe I would think, You gotta pull gears like Ronnie Sox, pedal like John Force, and cut lights like Dave Connolly

[LS1NOVA]

That's freakin' awesome. I'm sure you are one of only a hand full of pro-touring cars that has been in the nines. What are you running for suspension?


The nice thing about drag racing is that they give you that little slip of paper at the end of each run. It would be nice to have one or more all inclusive events, but to me, it's enough just to show up at a track day and/or autocross with your time slip and have at it. I think there's a lot to be learned and showcased about available traction from various brands of pro-touring suspension. That discussion is just as relevant at 9.53 or even 10.53.

Front is SC&C stage 2+, stock lowers, Viking DA coilovers, 250 or 450 springs.

Rear is Caltrac split mono leaf, Caltac bars, minitub, Viking DA shocks. Not the normal corner carver setup but suprisingly it works well.


I kind of like the concept of one car to do it all. Whats wrong with 2-3 sets of tires? Slicks, R-comp and Street. its 3 different races all on the same day with transit between them. Give points out for places in each competition. The most points at the end of the days wins. (This keeps each discipline evenly weighted) If you want or need to change out suspension components, so-be-it. As long as you make it to the start line at your given time its fine by me. Its about who has the fastest do-it-all car right? Not do it-all setup. If thats the case, you might as well go back to street tires only.

I agree with this also, its just most people dont.


There is such a big difference between cars that run 8's, 9's and 10's too. Cost goes up and on streetability declines. Still, it would be a great contest to see who has the most versatile street car.

You havent been introduced to the world of turbos have you? Ha Ha, 500whp to 1000whp is just a flip of a switch.

[LS1NOVA]

The point Im trying to make is wouldnt it be more entertaining to see cars running around the autox course and road course then doing this:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/NovaCedarFallsOct2013031_zps740f8bb0-1.jpg (http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/LS1NOVA/media/71%20Nova%20build/NovaCedarFallsOct2013031_zps740f8bb0.jpg.html)

Im confident I could get the car in the mid 9's on a 200 treadwear tire, but 8's not going to happen.

[Nicks67GTO]

I kind of think keeping street tires would make this kind of event a much more level playing field and rely much more on the driver. If slicks are involved, its going to be whoever brings the biggest baddest highest HP car to the table that wins the drag event. Without slicks you better be able to pedal that 1000hp rocket and contain its fury, just like you would have to hammering it on the street. I think slicks automatically turns something like this into a giant money flinging contest that most regular guys have 0 chance at winning. Maybe in the hypothetical power adder/unlimited class slicks should be allowed but not in either old or new school class?

Thoughts?

[Steve Chryssos]

Running sub-10 sec ET's on short sidewall pro-touring tires is dangerous. There is just enough grip to produce triple digit speeds and just enough slippage to get someone hurt at half track.

It's fine to use pro-touring tires for every other facet (street, autocross, road course), then turn 10 little lug nuts and swap out the rear tires for drag radials. Unless pro-touring means not knowing how to change a tire?

[dontlifttoshift]

Racing is dangerous.

Steve, like I said in the other thread, I will never argue safety, however I would like someone to explain to me how driving on a dragstrip is different than the front straight at Gingerman. Stielow's car will do 4th gear roll on burnouts, so why is the prepped dragstrip worse than the roadcourse for 200 tw tires.

[Steve Chryssos]

Because the car's already moving when it comes off the corner. That's a big difference. Why is turning lug nuts so bad? If my pro-touring car gets a flat, should I just walk away from it and never look back? Set it on fire? Donate it to Jerry's kids? :confused:

[GrabberGT]

Racing is dangerous.

Steve, like I said in the other thread, I will never argue safety, however I would like someone to explain to me how driving on a dragstrip is different than the front straight at Gingerman. Stielow's car will do 4th gear roll on burnouts, so why is the prepped dragstrip worse than the roadcourse for 200 tw tires.

Racing is dangerous. Perhaps there are qualifications that need to be met in order to race at this level. It wouldnt be the first event to do so.

I'll add another that seams to be missed here. "Racing is expensive". If you want to be in this race, you better be bringing a pair of slicks, pair of street tires, and a pair of road race tires. You'll need to have boost on dial and or Nitrous to flip on. Change control arms, adjust shocks, add/remove/manipulate weight. (driver change???) Have a trailer to tow it all in and know your stuff because you have a start time to be ready for.


People like myself cannot expect to show up and compete with the big dogs. Maybe there are multiple classes like drag week, maybe not. Besides, dont we already have events for us? LS Fest, ASCS, RTTH, Optima.... But its the race as I described above that I want to see and I thought was the basis of this thread.

[Rat Fink]

Just my $.02, but as soon as you allow tire changes, suspension changes, etc. you make it about cubic dollars. It would produce some really awesome cars at first, but the pool of people with the money and willingness to compete would quickly dwindle. Hot Rod Dragweek's unlimited class is a good example. One guy has won multiple times and the number of cars that can really compete at that level is pretty small considering the number of people that compete overall. Not knocking the idea, just giving my opinion.

[Steve Chryssos]

Well here's how we do it: One car. Two sets of rear tires, two sets of rear wheels. A jack, torque wrench. That's it. Hot rodders have had a spare set of rear wheels and tires since forever. Two Lane Blacktop? Yup. Spare set of rear wheels and tires in the trunk. Also they changed jets TWICE in that movie. How #%^@-ed up is that?

[Steve Chryssos]

The point Im trying to make is wouldnt it be more entertaining to see cars running around the autox course and road course then doing this:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/NovaCedarFallsOct2013031_zps740f8bb0-1.jpg (http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/LS1NOVA/media/71%20Nova%20build/NovaCedarFallsOct2013031_zps740f8bb0.jpg.html)

Im confident I could get the car in the mid 9's on a 200 treadwear tire, but 8's not going to happen.

That's a great looking car by the way!

[Doug1]

I am trying to meet that goal with the Triple Threat build. It has the same rear setup as Unfair and plenty of juice. It still only 1/2 done at this point.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_0861-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_0867-1.jpg

Has a 3 link and a 4 link in the rear. Springs and shocks for each corner are quick change. Should be able to convert from drag to corner carver in less than an hour.

[Steve Chryssos]

Very cool. Don't let anyone tell you it ain't a pro-touring car, just because you swapped a few parts or tires.

[dontlifttoshift]

[
Because the car's already moving when it comes off the corner. That's a big difference.

I agree, I thought we were talking about 100 mph at the 1/8 mile and loosing traction.....at least that is what SRD mentioned. If a car leaves the line and it hooks into a guardrail that is almost always a part failure or the loose nut behind the wheel.



Why is turning lug nuts so bad? If my pro-touring car gets a flat, should I just walk away from it and never look back? Set it on fire? Donate it to Jerry's kids? :confused:

Don't misunderstand me, I have no fear of turning lug nuts. If the straight line guys get drag radials, then why not DOT hoosiers for the corner carvers? Recently many guys have argued that autoxing on street tires in the SuperStock classes is dangerous and death and lawsuits would be the result if they were forced to run on street (200 tw) tires. I found that point of view to equally absurd. To me the fear in that case and this one is the possibility of the driver running out of talent and not being able to manage available traction, which is what all forms of autoracing are about.

As mentioned, it wouldn't be long before the "Golden Rule" of racing applied. Most people reading this thread understand that making enough power to go 8s or even 9s is way easier than managing it for 5 to 10 laps. With 200 TW tires as the limiter, you eliminate a lot of broken parts in the 1st 60 feet and negate the necessity to make 1200+ horsepower which allows more people to actually compete at the pointy end of a given class.

I like the idea behind the event and think it would be a metric ****ton of fun.

[Steve Chryssos]

I'm good with all that. The funny thing is when you go to the local drags and swap tires, no one makes a fuss. Same goes for 140 TW tires at a local SCCA meet or local track day club event.

...and that's exactly what I do.

[72BBSwinger]

I can see this is heading in a slightly negative direction with tire talk. LS1Nova wants a contest where his car would obviously shine, dont blame you but that is obvious. I think its a great contest and MCOTY is already basically there but IMO is lame in the 1/4 mile arena because of the tire mandate. There already is 275DR drag racing all over the country, yippee. I think the tire mandates in ALL OR ANY contest is BS. A 200TW mandate gives a ton of cash to BFG and Falken. BS again IMO. There are plenty of good tires out there that are not stamped with a 200AA on the side but if I dont run them im cheating? What if im saving money and using a tire that works and lasts better and longer? Whatever, how about allow any tire other than a Hoosier or R1 and just let the games begin? As far as the drag racing portion just let somebody run whatever they can fit under the back and call it good. A slick is gonna shine and be safer with the stupid high power cars and this is a problem? Who cares, it pisses me off I have to spend more money for a tire that is stamped with 200AA on the side than one with 100,140 or 180AA and it does nothing for my car over the lower ratings except appease the good ole boys who're cashing in. Edit: its neat to see tire limited Drag Racing=$$$$$$$$. Like this F.A.S.T small block Duster that runs 10.70's while appearing like its an OEM Gold certified resto on STOCK bias ply Goodyears. My point is we dont need anymore racing classes with TIRE rules. All it ends up doing is making the guy with the biggest checkbook a winner.

[dontlifttoshift]

I think the tire mandates in ALL OR ANY contest is BS.

Whatever, how about allow any tire other than a Hoosier or R1 and just let the games begin? .

^^^^In the same paragraph?

Here are the rest of the 200 TW tires that also get their "pockets lined"

Hankook RS3
Bridgestone RE-11A
Dunlop Direzza Star Spec ZII
and I will Throw in the Michelin PS2s as well as the Super Sports.

There will be more to come, Hoosier is working on a 200 TW tire as we speak and it should be ready for next years autocross season.

Pretty sure BFG throws some loose change at our events as well.

The guy with the biggest checkbook is almost always the winner, if not now he will be. But as long as you can OUTDRIVE your oponents checkbook car everyone can stay involved. 200 tw tires, at the moment, seem to ensure that the best driver, not the most expensive car win the hardware.

[72BBSwinger]

What I was kinda eluding to was IMO 200aa is nothing more than a stamp on a tire. But at the same time so is "DOT" like on a A6 or R1. If you want to equalize the field just make everyone run the same tire period. 275/35/18 max. What do you think of that idea? That would definitely separate the drivers from the checkbook holders. And allowing a no tire rule in the drag race portion would allow it to be more than a pedal fest plus be SAFER.

[LS1NOVA]

Make everyone run the same tires and limit to 275? You're kidding right?

[72BBSwinger]

Make everyone run the same tires and limit to 275? You're kidding right?

If it were me there would be no tire limit ever, anywhere. Grip is the limiting factor eventually no matter what. On the Road Course and Autox portions, if you wanted to even the playing field, yes, putting everyone on a 275 tire of whatever brand wants to sponsor the event. 275/40/17,275/35/18 etc. would take tires out of the equation and put driver skill and car setup under the microscope IMO. The drag race portion should be on slicks,DR's or whatever in whatever size a participant chooses. Drag racing is more about which car is quickest no? So take traction out of the equation there to.

[NOT A TA]

I'm good with all that. The funny thing is when you go to the local drags and swap tires, no one makes a fuss. Same goes for 140 TW tires at a local SCCA meet or local track day club event.

...and that's exactly what I do.

I do this ^^^. 60 TW DOT R tires on road course and MT ET streets at the strip. I made a couple passes with my road track tires at the strip and they sucked. Almost 1/2 second slower. I'm a bang for the buck guy who'll probably never run in the 8's and even if I had a car that could I wouldn't risk it trying to do it on street tires.

Hell, I swap the whole rear end from a 2.41 to a 3.72 rear depending on the type of event.

[shmoov69]

Did I miss something here guys??!? Did we turn the corner (pun intended) somewhere and left the "having fun" part behind and now every PT or car event HAS to be about all out competition and who's got the biggest Richard?!??! I mean really, am I the only one that just wants to go and have fun with a bunch of other like minded (I thought) fellas? When it gets into competition, 9 times out of 10 the guy with the deepest pockets wins (if he can remotely drive). Not always, but most if the time. Sure I like to do the best I can out there, but there will always be someone bigger and better and faster.
If this turns into another event like "that", then I don't care to be involved too much cause lots of people have a "bigger pecker" than I do, ladies not excluded!! LOL!!

Lets have fun!

[72BBSwinger]

Yeah its called "Run Whatchya Brung"......

[Nicks67GTO]

Did I miss something here guys??!? Did we turn the corner (pun intended) somewhere and left the "having fun" part behind and now every PT or car event HAS to be about all out competition and who's got the biggest Richard?!??! I mean really, am I the only one that just wants to go and have fun with a bunch of other like minded (I thought) fellas? When it gets into competition, 9 times out of 10 the guy with the deepest pockets wins (if he can remotely drive). Not always, but most if the time. Sure I like to do the best I can out there, but there will always be someone bigger and better and faster.
If this turns into another event like "that", then I don't care to be involved too much cause lots of people have a "bigger pecker" than I do, ladies not excluded!! LOL!!

Lets have fun!

Yeah something like this better be all about fun, if not what is the point? I quit having visions of gold medals and drag racing titles years ago when I realized how much it costs to keep together a reliable car that will make simple 11 second passes on slicks....haha. Even entry level guys are spending a lot.

I think the single set of tires would make it an equalizer in the old school and new school classes and keep them lower budget/reasonable power. They would be allowed to adjust what they brung. Tire pressure, jets, shock settings, swaybar settings etc but the parts dont leave the car. If you want to change tires or parts you're automatically in the unlimited class. That would keep the really high powered/dollar guys in a class of their own.

[Nicks67GTO]

BTW if anyone has any good ideas on how to maybe get the ball rolling on something like this.... feel free to PM me. It seems just based on this thread, that there would at least be interest?

[Steve Chryssos]

There's that hornet's nest I was talkin' about.

[72BBSwinger]

People dont like buying tires to be competitive or "allowed".

[Steve Chryssos]

I run Nitto NT-05's. They're made of some sticky stuff from alternate universe that seems to last forever. I can't believe the wear resistance I get from those tires. They might not be the latest/greatest, "trick of the week" tire, but for a multi-purpose product, NT05's work well. Now, does that sound like I'm kissing anyone's ring?

I think the OP just wants an all-inclusive event in the middle of the country and doesn't really care how it happens. As long as he gets to click-off an eight second run AND turn some corners, he's happy. That's what I gathered.

I suggested that there's a shortage of cars running 9's and turning corners. ...And that we should go through 9's before we get to 8's. We did it years ago and people said the effort wasn't legit because we swapped tires. More ring kissing. Like I gotta get someone else's permission to call a nine a nine.

In other words, I agree with you. I just like to keep the conversation focused. Let's see some nine second runs AND autocross/track day content. Pix, video, ET slips, talk about what parts were used to get it done. As an example, Jeff Schwartz's MCOTY T/A can run a nine second ET and get around a track or two, What changes would he need to make in order to get from an 11.60 to a 9.90? ..And it doesn't need to happen on the same day or at the same event. Why can't Jeff Schwartz take all of his PHR data and add one 9 second ET slip?

I would so much rather talk about parts than car-guy politics.

[E.rodz]

I think this is just awesome in every way shape and form that this is possible now days. running a 10 second 1/4 and having full comfortable interior,a/c and being able to drive the car everyday. To think of were we have come in the last 5 years is mind boggling knowing that 8's and a everyday driver capable and be able to handle too. count me in on a event like this!! To me I know my car is not going to win however to go out and just have fun with it and use the car for it's designed purpose count me in! Keep up the great work Nathan!

[72BBSwinger]

I thought of it as an exercise in car capabilities that's all. Slicks and DR's and the associated wheels are not that expensive and could even be swapped between cars in a lot of cases. I have a set of 28x12.5x15 ET Streets on 15x8 Welds that have the dual bolt pattern 5x4.5/4.75 and I would let anyone who wanted to use them. It's not big deal, I would love see what a car like Schwartz's T/A with traction could 1/4 mile.

[Steve Chryssos]

..couldn't agree more.

[LS1NOVA]

Just think of the cool factor of seeing all the cars at a big event swapping to drag wheels/tires and busting off some good times...its 2013 and guys are making making big horsepower. Id love to see Steilow pulling wheelies in the latest 750hp LS9 whatever, Schwartz running some 9's, Brian Finch, Danny Popp, DSE, battling it out in the 10's just as hard as they do on the autox.

LSfest this year was an event that I attended this year and had a blast! Did I win? No. Did I give it my best against the big dogs that have honed thier driving skills to the 9th degree? Yes!! I won the drag portion with a 10.22 but didnt come close to winning the event even with respectable times in the autox and speed stop so those that think Im trying to setup an event so my car will win are missing the point. My car can be competitive the same as a autox winner who runs average drag et's. The drag racer in me just wants to see what these cars are capable of, not just who can spin the tires the least.

[shortrack]

I would think a guy who took his car to the strip with any regularity would have at least a set of drag radials anyway, if not slicks.

[shmoov69]

I agree with you Nathan really. Obviously mine goes much better in a squirt on ET Streets, but it's all for fun for me, straight or twisty.
My whole "rant" if you wanna call it that was because of the whole tire discussion and how it may "stack the odds" for the higher TQ cars. I'm all about the run what ya brung!
Sounds like it could be an awesome event!!

[Ron Sutton]

Just think of the cool factor of seeing all the cars at a big event swapping to drag wheels/tires and busting off some good times...its 2013 and guys are making making big horsepower. Id love to see Steilow pulling wheelies in the latest 750hp LS9 whatever, Schwartz running some 9's, Brian Finch, Danny Popp, DSE, battling it out in the 10's just as hard as they do on the autox.

LSfest this year was an event that I attended this year and had a blast! Did I win? No. Did I give it my best against the big dogs that have honed thier driving skills to the 9th degree? Yes!! I won the drag portion with a 10.22 but didnt come close to winning the event even with respectable times in the autox and speed stop so those that think Im trying to setup an event so my car will win are missing the point. My car can be competitive the same as a autox winner who runs average drag et's. The drag racer in me just wants to see what these cars are capable of, not just who can spin the tires the least.

Agree

[dontlifttoshift]

Bowling Green looks like a good place to make this happen. And it will be a decent place to hold an autocross.

http://www.motorsportspark.org/our-blog/

[72BBSwinger]

Wow that looks like a great venue. Still to far for me to travel.

[Kenova]

...... Still to far for me to travel.

At least you have the advantage of not having to drive around any of the Great Lakes or crossing an international border.

Ken

[72BBSwinger]

150 miles and I have a Road Course and 1/8 mile strip at one place. 96 miles and I have a 1/4 mile strip, I cant complain.

[TheJakeLSX]

Just go to proving grounds at BIR in June and September. They do all of that and more. I'll be going with my truck. Should be a blast!

[Nicks67GTO]

150 miles and I have a Road Course and 1/8 mile strip at one place. 96 miles and I have a 1/4 mile strip, I cant complain.

I have a 1/4 mile track under 10 miles from my house and test n tune was $25 bucks last time I went. Its a pretty sweet deal.

[LS1NOVA]

Just go to proving grounds at BIR in June and September. They do all of that and more. I'll be going with my truck. Should be a blast!

Its mainly imports and my car is not allowed.

[TheJakeLSX]

It used to be imports but map performance is moving more towards turbo Ls builds. They had a few there last year including a 69 yenko clone camaro with a turbo Ls. Your car is allowed they'll let anyone in. I've seen everything from Hondas to camaros to cummins diesel trucks compete there.

[LS1NOVA]

It used to be imports but map performance is moving more towards turbo Ls builds. They had a few there last year including a 69 yenko clone camaro with a turbo Ls. Your car is allowed they'll let anyone in. I've seen everything from Hondas to camaros to cummins diesel trucks compete there.

They allow late models that have factory efi. My car is NOT allowed. Also I tend to not attend events that are primarily imports, way too many idiots.

[64LS1Nova]

I'm with ya LS1nova. I am looking to do the same type of event! I built my car to be dual purpose, but it doesn't seem like I can take advantage of it now. I run MT drag radials at all times mainly for my safety, but It looks like I can't run them at a pro-touring event. I am considering putting regular tires on the rear this time around, but I will have to pull a ton of power out of the car, and that seems sacrilegious. lol
Next year I wanna do drag week bad. That looks like a blast! Power tour looks really fun too! Looks like I'm gonna be burning up some vacation time!! haha

[tracar91]

It is awesome to hear you guys talking about doing an all over event. I have been lucky enough to participate in exactly this type of event since 2000, and they have been doing it since 1996. We do it either at Memphis or Indianapolis around the middle of May each year.

Check out www.fbody-event.org. Started out as a camaro/firebird event but has changed into a event for car people who like to abuse their cars.

Anyone can do any or all of the events. Road course, auto cross, drag race, and car show. Anyone doing all of them does the "Ironman" event.

We would be happy for any and all of you who want to attend, even non-fbodys.

You can contact me in pm or email the organizers at the website.

James Greenwell
1991 Z28
1972 GS455

[uxojerry]

I think a road course and standing mile event would be more practical. 10s or under in drag racing has a lot more safety requirements than a standing mile. A 4pt roll bar and fire extinguisher will allow you to run 200mph, lol. Tires for both events (mile/road course) are the same, and stick cars do better than autos on both events.

Look what's happened to drag week where teams are building cars specifically to compete in the event. If you do 1/4 and road course everybody will have to have two sets of wheels, quick change rear ends, two transmissions, etc. The standing half mile could also be used in places that dont have a full runway. There is a twin turbo C6 that hit 196mph in the 1/2 mile, lol, but it wouldnt do well on a road course.

Just food for thought!

[Schwartz Performance]

Insurance for those types of events can be high which is why the safety requirements vary. Same goes for the facility. A fire extinguisher and a 4pt isn't safe for 200mph, lol. I wouldn't go that fast with a 4 pt that's for sure :)

-Dale

[LS1NOVA]

Accomplished my goal a couple weeks ago. 8.82 at 153mph. Hook up the sway bar links, click the shocks, and swap wheel/tires and its off to the autox.

[eric1967]

Congrats! That is awesome.

[shmoov69]

Oh my!!! THAT is freakin awesome man!!!!
HUGE kudos!!!

[LS1NOVA]

Thanks guys. Now if I can get the LSfest guys to allow real drag tires in the Grand Champion class...that would be a blast.

[71RS/SS396]

Thanks guys. Now if I can get the LSfest guys to allow real drag tires in the Grand Champion class...that would be a blast.

I honestly don't think it will change the placing at LS Fest if you allow drag radials and r compound tires. The cars that have big power and are more drag oriented will place well at the strip and the cars set-up to turn will do well in the auto-x and speed stop. You could win the drag portion by 2 seconds and you still get the same points as you would by winning by .001. LS Fest will always be won by a car that handles since there's 2 segments of the competition that require good handling. Fwiw next years competition will have a road course segment at the new corvette museum track.

[LS1NOVA]

I hear ya. I'm more interested in just doing it for fun and to show that it can be done. Im well aware I would have no chance of winning but do you or have you seen any other 8 second drag cars running road course or autox?

[OG_Racing]

105458

Josh was running 9's. at LS Fest 2014 and his auto-x time was right up there with Danny popp, and myself. i'm sure if he had some radials he could be close to the 8's

[LS1NOVA]

I thought I saw low 10's?? Do you know the exact time? High 9's, low 10's is a LONG ways from 8's.

[GrabberGT]

I cant imagine Dusold would be too far off either if he ran full boost, drag radials, and made shock adjustments. Same with Stielows new "Hellfire".


105483

[OG_Racing]

I thought I saw low 10's?? Do you know the exact time? High 9's, low 10's is a LONG ways from 8's.

he was running 10.0 and spinning 1/2 way down the track. i was running next to him, until he left me for dead lol. with the right tail wind and a good launch (same tire) he can get into the 9's .

[andrewb70]

he was running 10.0 and spinning 1/2 way down the track. i was running next to him, until he left me for dead lol. with the right tail wind and a good launch (same tire) he can get into the 9's .

As was said, actual low 10's don't extrapolate to potential high 9's and are a WAY off from 8's...Also, when these high HP cars actually hook, that's when parts will start to break. Running 8's with a manual transmission is extremely difficult and clutch set-up become critical.

Nicely done Nathan!

Andrew

*edit*

Looks like Josh's Corvette made 556RWHP

http://www.hotrod.com/events/car-craft-street-eliminator/2014/1412-car-crafts-real-street-eliminator-ix/

Even at his weight, that's not power to run 8's, assuming the suspension was even set-up for it.

[LS1NOVA]

GrabberGT, I agree. Thats what I want to see. Dusold, Steilow, many others have the potential to go really quick. Schwartz's TA too.



As was said, actual low 10's don't extrapolate to potential high 9's and are a WAY off from 8's...Also, when these high HP cars actually hook, that's when parts will start to break. Running 8's with a manual transmission is extremely difficult and clutch set-up become critical.

Nicely done Nathan!

Andrew

Exactly. Thanks.

[OG_Racing]

As was said, actual low 10's don't extrapolate to potential high 9's and are a WAY off from 8's...Also, when these high HP cars actually hook, that's when parts will start to break. Running 8's with a manual transmission is extremely difficult and clutch set-up become critical.

Nicely done Nathan!

Andrew

Forgive me because my background isn't in drag racing. i'm used to chipping seconds off all the time. but i do think josh's car is an auto with an air shifter.

[andrewb70]

Forgive me because my background isn't in drag racing. i'm used to chipping seconds off all the time. but i do think josh's car is an auto with an air shifter.

In drag racing there is something to be said for "chipping off" some time, but once a combination is optimized and the 60 foot times are as low as they can realistically be, the rest is physics. The HP requirements to run ever faster times are exponential.

What car are you referring to? The silver Vette?

Andrew

[OG_Racing]

In drag racing there is something to be said for "chipping off" some time, but once a combination is optimized and the 60 foot times are as low as they can realistically be, the rest is physics. The HP requirements to run ever faster times are exponential.

What car are you referring to? The silver Vette?

Andrew

yep the silver vette.

[72BBSwinger]

I said it earlier in this thread, it would be cool if everyone bolted on a set of slicks or DR's just to see the potential of some of these beasts. I equate hp to what a car can run in a 1/4 mile, not what the builder claims or the dynojet claims.

[andrewb70]

I said it earlier in this thread, it would be cool if everyone bolted on a set of slicks or DR's just to see the potential of some of these beasts. I equate hp to what a car can run in a 1/4 mile, not what the builder claims or the dynojet claims.

Agreed. The MPH in the 1/4 mile is a very good indicator of HP.

Andrew

[Peter Mc Mahon]

I have heard that the 'magic' number is 1/4 mile racing is 1350, meaning if you have a 10.0 sec car it should go 135mph [10.0x135=1350] but if your 10.0 sec car goes 140mph [1400] you have a launching issue of some kind. On the other end of the spectrum, if your 10.0 sec car goes 125mph [1250] you have a probable gearing issue. Does anyone know if this is true?

[andrewb70]

I have heard that the 'magic' number is 1/4 mile racing is 1350, meaning if you have a 10.0 sec car it should go 135mph [10.0x135=1350] but if your 10.0 sec car goes 140mph [1400] you have a launching issue of some kind. On the other end of the spectrum, if your 10.0 sec car goes 125mph [1250] you have a probable gearing issue. Does anyone know if this is true?

I've never heard that rule, but it is mostly on point. Although, I doubt that anyone would ever run a 10.xx with a 125 trap speed. Usually then trap speed is way higher than the potential ET due to poor traction.

Andrew

[LS1NOVA]

Wallace Racing has calculators for pretty much everything. Very handy to bookmark it.

[Poorhousenext]

Wallace Racing has calculators for pretty much everything. Very handy to bookmark it.

LOL,,,I'm not sure how good those calculators or for ET, MPH , HP are, or I have one exceptional car cosidering 60' foot time is slightly more than 1.97 to 2.0+ secs because engine HO/TQ is not enough to even spin rear 300 Treadwear street tires (not DRs or Slicks) on a preped track. Also TQ converter doesn't have much or any FLASH to speak of.

Wallace Racing Calculators numbers.

Mustang Dyno HP = Weight & HP - Your ET / MPH computed from your vehicle weight of 3564 pounds and HP of 360 is 12.51 seconds and MPH of 108.05 MPH.

DynoJet Dyno HP = Your ET / MPH computed from your vehicle weight of 3564 pounds and HP of 409 is 11.99 seconds and MPH of 112.75 MPH.

Weight & MPH = Your Horsepower computed from your vehicle weight of 3564 pounds and MPH of 120 is 493.19.

Weight & MPH = Your Horsepower computed from your vehicle weight of 3564 pounds and MPH of 117 is 457.12.

ET & Weight = Your HP is 408.67 computed from your vehicle weight of 3564 pounds and ET of 11.99 HP is about what Dynojet Numbers are.


ET 11.97 & 11.99 low / 12.03-12.101 high side. 117 MPH average, highest 120 MPH/11.999 ET

My HP numbers are Mustange, true 1/4 Horse HP, 360 RWHP, from GM LS3 376CI 480 HP rated Hot Cam crate engine. Dyno Jet Shetland pony number is 409 RWHP. If you look at cars weight distribution with 4 gallons of fuel without me in it and with me in it that may help you understand why engine can't spin tires with 48% Front weight and 52% rear weight distribution. Rear gear is 3.55, trans 6X 4L80.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/2014lsfestdragsrightln1_zpsd4286239-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/2014lsfestdragsrightln1_zpsd4286239.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/lsfestdragsrightln2_zpsd3752aca-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/lsfestdragsrightln2_zpsd3752aca.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/d842a0061e30401db240d93f3f5cac25_zps3771-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/d842a006-1e30-401d-b240-d93f3f5cac25_zps37712760.jpg.html)

3.55 Rear gear ratio. TCI 6X trans. Cricle D converter stalled at about stock RPM

Street tires, no DR's

Car as ran with dirver weight after run 3564 LBs, without driver 3,339 LBs with less 1/4 tank of fuel.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/2014lsfestdragsweightdriver_zpsc28039cb-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/2014lsfestdragsweightdriver_zpsc28039cb.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/2014lsfestdragsweightnodriver1_zps954995-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/2014lsfestdragsweightnodriver1_zps954995a0.jpg.htm l)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/2014lsfestdrags11999startline_zps06ffab0-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/2014lsfestdrags11999startline_zps06ffab02.jpg.html )

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/2014lsfestdrags11999finishtline_zpsc8dfe-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/2014lsfestdrags11999finishtline_zpsc8dfe682.jpg.ht ml)

My new for 2015 Build Goal, is to go 10s in 1/4 mile with less than 400 RWHP on min of 200 Treadware or above street tires. No DRs or Slicks

[72BBSwinger]

Your 120mph says it all. Even if you can shave your 60 .40, you're still A LONG way from 10's. My buddy has an LS3/480 in a 67 Bug and it did 419 rwhp through a T56 on a Mustang.

[Cams-DK]

Crusher 2 vette ran [email protected] with no rear spoiler but we still have traction problems 200 tread tires!Going to do some body changes for ls trying for low 9s

[Poorhousenext]

Your 120mph says it all. Even if you can shave your 60 .40, you're still A LONG way from 10's. My buddy has an LS3/480 in a 67 Bug and it did 419 rwhp through a T56 on a Mustang.

My new build is all new car. Not the Car I have now. Current car is 337 lbs heavier than a stock 64 Vette Coupe with a cast iron small block. No way to get it into 10's unless I go for way more than 400 RWHP on a Mustang Dyno. So I have to build a new car, with lot less weight. but only increase HP by max of 39. Still want be easy, but anybody can go with big HP and do it. I like a challenge. I may fail, so what, at least I tried something most people would never attemp. But if I succeed, how would you feel if you got beat by a car with 150 to 200 or less HP than yours...?

When it comes to HP of my current build, it's held back by lack of intake air via two things. I use an LS2 Honeycomb MAF instead of LS3 Bayonet style and I don't have 4.0" of air feed it either. I have 6" of air via two 3.0" intake tubes that neck up to 3.5" just before MAF. I never expected to be able to run in high 12s much less low 12s and it was never built to be a drag car only a nice looking driver. Just dumb luck.:hammer: Think it's I just used right auto tranny to go with a 3.55 rear gear to pull it off, hence the mostly 117 MPH runs even on best ET of 1.973. Only one 120 MPH pass. If I got 60' time down, MPH would most likey drop to below 116 MPH.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/sema21-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/sema2-1.jpg.html)

Dyno sheet comparing current engine with engine that will be going into new build. It's air feed is via LS2 MAF also and you can see engine is running out of air on top end. Will try and get it to top out a little closer to 400 when we tune it later.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/jimmyjoelydia2_zps332b1962-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/64%20vette%20Jimmy%20Joe/jimmyjoelydia2_zps332b1962.jpg.html)

Engine in frame. Notice LS2 MAF.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/P1010340_zps16af37d6-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/64%20vette%20Jimmy%20Joe/P1010340_zps16af37d6.jpg.html)

Build will NHRA up to 9.99 ET, unlike current build which is not legal for current ETs. With trans sheild sitting on 4L80E mockup trans so we can build trans tunnel to fit.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/P1010341_zps623b05cd-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/64%20vette%20Jimmy%20Joe/P1010341_zps623b05cd.jpg.html)

I do my own design clay mockup's to see if I like the look and too give builder idea of what I want.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/P1010338_zps0223ee2d-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/64%20vette%20Jimmy%20Joe/P1010338_zps0223ee2d.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/P1010337_zps473f25ca-1.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jere-64/media/64%20vette%20Jimmy%20Joe/P1010337_zps473f25ca.jpg.html)

You can call me old and stupid, I'm 71 year old and just do this to see how they turn out, Vs you younger guys with big packages under the hood...LOL

[72BBSwinger]

Well the buddy that has the LS3 67 Bug is 70 something years old too lol.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/11/IMAG0184_zpsauuqgifk-1.jpg (http://s626.photobucket.com/user/bdhmbre/media/IMAG0184_zpsauuqgifk.jpg.html)
Thats the old ***** there in the orange shirt. He does things HIS way, and I have nothing but respect for old guys.

[LS1NOVA]

Crusher 2 vette ran [email protected] with no rear spoiler but we still have traction problems 200 tread tires!Going to do some body changes for ls trying for low 9s

Very nice! Any video?