72 chevelle ls swap

[chevy4life]

Hey guys, i have the oppertunity to purchase a great 99 camaro ss which i would use to swap my 72 chevelle to an ls. A few questions:
1) will the stock oil pan fit without any crossmember/steering linkage?
2) could i somehow fit the fuel tank from the camaro to my chevelle? that would save a ton of money on fuel pump/tank
3) my chevelle has powersteering, can the power steering pump on the ls work with my existing setup?

i do not have ac in the car, nor do i want it, so the only things i will have on my ls engine will be the ps pump and alternator. can the stock placements of these two accessories stay in their stock locations?

thanks for any imput!

anthony

[garys 68]

A 95 Impala tank will fit, it's sumped, and Racetronics makes a high pressure intank pump that will work for the LS swap. Very common in A body swaps.
The PS pump will work fine. The new LS pump is metric o ring though, your box is SAE inverted flare. Consider the Grand Cherokee Jeep box swap though.

[raustinss]

Don't bother switching boxes if you don't have to...go to any shop or store that can do hydraulic hoses..get a new one made that has metric on one end and S.A.E on the other, I have no idea about the tank but rick's makes beautiful s.s tanks with modern pumps. the oil pan will not work gmpp makes a muscle car pan kit, which I understand is the same pan as a hummer h3 but do your homework there, holly also makes a pan which will fit also check your inner tie rod ends make sure that your grease fittings come out the back of the joint and not out the side this will help provide more clearance when you've got the wheel cranked. As for the accessories I know that with a Ls7 engine in a 70 you need ls7 accessories for the driver side ( p.s...and alt) and use LSA accessories for the passenger side (idler..ac if you change your mind)
Best of luck Ryan Austin

[csouth]

Don't bother switching boxes if you don't have to...go to any shop or store that can do hydraulic hoses..get a new one made that has metric on one end and S.A.E on the other, I have no idea about the tank but rick's makes beautiful s.s tanks with modern pumps. the oil pan will not work gmpp makes a muscle car pan kit, which I understand is the same pan as a hummer h3 but do your homework there, holly also makes a pan which will fit also check your inner tie rod ends make sure that your grease fittings come out the back of the joint and not out the side this will help provide more clearance when you've got the wheel cranked. As for the accessories I know that with a Ls7 engine in a 70 you need ls7 accessories for the driver side ( p.s...and alt) and use LSA accessories for the passenger side (idler..ac if you change your mind)
Best of luck Ryan Austin

Camaro pan will work as many people use these in their swaps myself included. F-body accessory brackets have been used in swaps with some massaging of the power steering box. I think Gary was saying to swap the box for performance, not because its necessary.

OP, I would suggest you start with the sticky's found here on on LS1tech to get some good background info.

[garys 68]

Yes, the box swap is for much better feel 16:1 vs 12:1. You can use a mid 80s G body high pressure hose and Dorman universal return. Best $50 I spent on the car.
If you keep the chevelle box, you have several options:
The high pressure fitting on the back of the power steering pump can be unscrewed and swapped.
Or you can use the metric hose, cut the end off that goes to the box, put on an inverted flair fitting and double flair it.
Or theres a company (Lee?) that makes an insert to allow you to mix fittings.
Or you can get metric/inverted flair to JIC adapters Speedway motors) and make your own hose.

On the pan, I used the CTS-V pan, it hangs below the crossmember about 1/2 - 3/4". The GM muscle car pan will work but hangs farther down than that.


Impala tank installed:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/Garys68-1.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/rdoact/media/Garys68.jpg.html)

[raustinss]

Year one also has a variable speed box at a decent price... given a more modern feel to the car..also keeping it all gm..check it out. I stand corrected on the oil pan wasn't aware the f body pan would work and yes I failed to mention that the hummer pan does hang down too low for most people.

Does the impala tanks straps just bolt into the chevelles factory mounts or is it a custom install also does the tank hang lower then the chevelles?

[chevy4life]

Guys thank you for all of the great info! I'm trying to do this swap on as short a budget as I can so if I am not able to use the f-body tank and the only purpose was to get the oilman with an ls1 I might go with a full truck engine setup with a 4l80 and wire harness for $1500. Seems like this would be the most logical way and spend the extra money on the oil pan and fuel system. I've heard of the aftermarket oil pans interfering with the steering rod linkages. Which is the best one to get which will eliminate that with which engine mounts? Thanks again guys. I'm hoping to make a purchase on this motor within the next month and get to work on the car.

[raustinss]

Check out March 2013 issue of chevy high performance magazine...lots of info in that issue also October's issue has lots of info..both re. Oil pans and tie rods... for A body gms . Super chevy magazine started a build in February or March using a LSA into a 70 chevelle again lots of info thru the whole build. I would recommend looking at all of them I got lots of info when I read them
Ryan Austin

[garys 68]

The Impala tank is deeper, chevelle straps wont reach. I heard that the Impala straps work but forgot to ask for them when I picked up the tank. I just made a couple put of 1" steel from Lowes. The placement of the straps (right/left, front/rear) is the same.



Does the impala tanks straps just bolt into the chevelles factory mounts or is it a custom install also does the tank hang lower then the chevelles?

[csouth]

Year one also has a variable speed box at a decent price... given a more modern feel to the car..also keeping it all gm..check it out.

FYI, the steering boxes are both Saginaw, there is no GM, Jeep difference.

OP, if you're on a budget use a Jeep Box and get the conversion rag joint and fittings from here

http://lee-powersteering.com/rebuild-misc.htm

[chevy4life]

Honestly the feeling of any box will be better than feeling of the factory 72 haha. i kind of like the idea of just going to a shop and having a hose made, seems like the most affordable way. for those of you who have done a 4l60/80 swap, did you have to modify the trans tunnel? and what gears did you use in the back?

[garys 68]

Actually, I think every alternative I listed will cost less than a shop making a custom hose (a couple are even free).
As for swaps, check out this thread:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1009784-lsx-into-64-72-gm-body.html


Honestly the feeling of any box will be better than feeling of the factory 72 haha. i kind of like the idea of just going to a shop and having a hose made, seems like the most affordable way. for those of you who have done a 4l60/80 swap, did you have to modify the trans tunnel? and what gears did you use in the back?

[raustinss]

A hydraulic hose would be no more then 20-30$ and thats a whole new hose...just cutting off a end and replacing it would be even less. with out searching thru the link with all the other links in thee and reading a whole thread..help us out how else can he adapt a metric to s.a.e for free or upgrade the box for free

[raustinss]

I think either you or I are confused here Gary...he has a lower steering box (stock) and was asking about either connecting a modern pump to it or upgrading....a hose is quite cheap...as listed above and a upgrade box from lee is 400$ I believe. Nobody here myself included hasn't even asked if he had a 16:1 box 4.5-5.5 turns lock to lock or 12:1 box 3.5-4.5 turns lock to lock. So this would be why I had suggested not swapping the box, if he has a 12:1 box and it's essentially the same as a jeep box why unbolt it..finding a jeep box..swap pitman arms..thats if he has a pitman arm puller if not that's $$$$ to get someone to do it..bolt it all back in.. and still quite possibly needing hoses depending on length.... or leave it in place and take the stock hoses out and get new one or ones...only the supply needs to be high pressure hydraulic. I've had a new hose made while I waited too, for my buddies hoist cost all of 24$ if I remember correctly and it was about 5' long following that thought process this would be the cheapest way to use a modern pump on a older box, now if it's a 16:1 box and he's looking for a faster feel then yes a jeep box is cheaper then one from lee which is where the info came in that they're basically the same Saginaw bodes. This I didn't know.. but, a further upgrade I suggested was the variable box from year one 500$ ish..maybe can't recall. This upgrade is something that the jeep boxes don't have from what I understand. Hopefully this helps
Ryan Austin

[67rally]

I used the Tanks Inc. tank for my '67 Camaro LS swap. They make one for a '71-72 Chevelle as well: http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=388/category_id=144/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd388.htm

Under $500 for the tank, Walbro 255 pump and new sender, shipped.

[garys 68]

No confusion, I've done all but the custom hose. Don't know of any stock 12:1 boxes, but could be wrong. I originally had the LS PS pump and chevelle/Olds box. I cut the box end off the hose that came with the LS pump. Cut the inverted flair off the Olds hose. Put the inverted flair on the LS hose, SAE 45 degree double flaired it. Hooked it to the olds box, worked fine, just felt like an old school bus with 16:1. Cost $0.
You can also swap out the fitting on the back of the pump for metric O ring or SAE. Cost $0.00. I did this on the truck pump, not as sure about f body or variable assist.
If you go to the jeep box, a $10 85 monte carlo hose (metric o ring both ends) worked for me.
Total cost for used jeep box and monte hose, $50. Exceptionally cheap and effective upgrade.

[raustinss]

All chevelle ss came equipped with a 12:1 box... and in 1970 there was 53000 plus produced so being as any from 68-72 would fit it shouldn't be hard to find one if he doesn't have one already

[chevy4life]

I think just cutting the hoses i have and putting on the different fittings to adapt to the stock ps pump on the 5.3L seems to be the cheapest way? Also, im going to do a cam swap with the comp thumpr cam, the mild one so it idles and is driveable on the street. I saw somewhere of people using ls6? (could be wrong there) valve springs to compensate for the higher lift. Is this something possible? or do i need to drop the 180 bucks and an extra 70 bucks on new comp springs and retainers? Any luck with TEA porting your heads?

Thanks guys for all this info, its really helping!!

[67rally]

I think just cutting the hoses i have and putting on the different fittings to adapt to the stock ps pump on the 5.3L seems to be the cheapest way? Also, im going to do a cam swap with the comp thumpr cam, the mild one so it idles and is driveable on the street. I saw somewhere of people using ls6? (could be wrong there) valve springs to compensate for the higher lift. Is this something possible? or do i need to drop the 180 bucks and an extra 70 bucks on new comp springs and retainers? Any luck with TEA porting your heads?

Thanks guys for all this info, its really helping!!

I have a set of LS2 heads that I sent out to TEA. They did a very nice job with them. I have them on my LQ9 (6.0l) with a custom grind comp cam that puts out over 450rwhp.

[csouth]

All chevelle ss came equipped with a 12:1 box... and in 1970 there was 53000 plus produced so being as any from 68-72 would fit it shouldn't be hard to find one if he doesn't have one already

I would say its a lot easier to find a 96 Jeep Grand Cherokee box, JMO


I think just cutting the hoses i have and putting on the different fittings to adapt to the stock ps pump on the 5.3L seems to be the cheapest way? Also, im going to do a cam swap with the comp thumpr cam, the mild one so it idles and is driveable on the street. I saw somewhere of people using ls6? (could be wrong there) valve springs to compensate for the higher lift. Is this something possible? or do i need to drop the 180 bucks and an extra 70 bucks on new comp springs and retainers? Any luck with TEA porting your heads?

Thanks guys for all this info, its really helping!!

I think you need to look more at the spring seat pressure than lift. Please don't cheap out because breaking a valve spring could cost you more in the long run.

[chevy4life]

I have a set of LS2 heads that I sent out to TEA. They did a very nice job with them. I have them on my LQ9 (6.0l) with a custom grind comp cam that puts out over 450rwhp./QUOTE]

Do you remember what the turn around time was? It is truly amazing the amount of power these engines are capable of with such little work. I'm planning on reaching around 430ph with the cam and ported heads with a 5.3l.



[QUOTE]I think you need to look more at the spring seat pressure than lift. Please don't cheap out because breaking a valve spring could cost you more in the long run.

Well i guess what you put it that way, im more than happy to spend that money! I've decided to do this project over a year or two so i'm going to do it the right way. thank you.

[garys 68]

car-part.com, found mine 15 minutes from me, picked it up the same day. Priced from $30-50.

I would say its a lot easier to find a 96 Jeep Grand Cherokee box, JMO.

[67rally]

Do you remember what the turn around time was? It is truly amazing the amount of power these engines are capable of with such little work. I'm planning on reaching around 430ph with the cam and ported heads with a 5.3l.

It was 4 weeks door to door, and that was in March at the height of their season. Mike is a really good guy, spec'd my cam, and responded to all my emails/PM's.

I initially looked at Advanced Inductions, but after several weeks of less than stellar communication, I contacted TEA and am very glad I did. Here are the TEA Stage 2 243's:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/03/Headsandstuff005x_zps810ca112-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/03/Headsandstuff008x_zps3087f816-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/03/Headsandstuff004x_zps3ee3ec5a-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/03/Headsandstuff001x_zpsd0f01e45-1.jpg

[chevy4life]

wow those heads look mint. i'm going to do this in a few short stages so 1 is getting the motor in the car and drivable(aiming for the summer). 2 is getting the new comp cam and swap it in sept(when my bday is). 3 is having the heads ported(the following xmas). i want to make this a fun project, not something to just rush and do. I like my stock stance for the car right now, maybe lower the back an inch at most but i never have any clearance issues, and in mass the roads are terrible and i need all of it. with that said, do you think i will run into any problems if i kept the truck oil pan?

[BLACKLIST]

i have a 71 chevelle. i picked up a 5.3 out of a tahoe. has the ****ty 706 heads. i guess certain ones were prone for leaking. ill just switch them out.

anyways.. i have some questions as well if i may butt in here if thats ok...

questions i have

-what engine harness do i use and what computer? do i just get the wiring diagram off LS1-tech?
-is it ok just to use the TH400 trans? (yes i know about the spacer part ill need)
-cant you just use a external fuel pump like a aermotive a-1000 instead of switching tanks?
-are you guys just getting a custom driveshaft made?

[chevy4life]

instead of taking the time to drill ur tank if it has no return port, why not spend the 500 bucks and get a brand new efi tank with a internal pump and sender from tanks inc? it has a baffle so if you want to track the car or drive hard you'll never run into that issue? i am building my chevelle on a budget but am going to spend the money on the tank so i never have to worry about fuel shortage. i will just have my driveshaft shortened with a new slip yoke to fit my 4l80e. for the wire harness and computer, so many options. im sure many people here can offer their advice. the shop im buying my motor from is including a cut harness and computer set up for me.

[garys 68]

no way the truck pan will work, it hangs several inches below the crossmember. The CTS-V is the best economical choice. It's only about 3/4" below the crossmember. If you don't lower the car too much, you'll be fine with it.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/DSCN0286-1.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/rdoact/media/DSCN0286.jpg.html)

[garys 68]

You can easily modify the stock harness.
A TH400 will bolt up but an OD trans would be a better choice.
The A body tanks are low and flat, terrible for fuel starvation with external pumps. Check out the impala/caprice tank with intank pump
you can order a driveshaft cheaper than modding or having a custom made
http://southwestspeed.com/?sec=view_menu&cat=Drivetrain&sub=Driveshafts&ssub=!!2 1/2\" Steel Driveshafts


i have a 71 chevelle. i picked up a 5.3 out of a tahoe. has the ****ty 706 heads. i guess certain ones were prone for leaking. ill just switch them out.

anyways.. i have some questions as well if i may butt in here if thats ok...

questions i have

-what engine harness do i use and what computer? do i just get the wiring diagram off LS1-tech?
-is it ok just to use the TH400 trans? (yes i know about the spacer part ill need)
-cant you just use a external fuel pump like a aermotive a-1000 instead of switching tanks?
-are you guys just getting a custom driveshaft made?

[67rally]

wow those heads look mint. i'm going to do this in a few short stages so 1 is getting the motor in the car and drivable(aiming for the summer). 2 is getting the new comp cam and swap it in sept(when my bday is). 3 is having the heads ported(the following xmas). i want to make this a fun project, not something to just rush and do. I like my stock stance for the car right now, maybe lower the back an inch at most but i never have any clearance issues, and in mass the roads are terrible and i need all of it. with that said, do you think i will run into any problems if i kept the truck oil pan?

I would do the heads and cam at the same time. If you are going to spend big bucks on porting your heads, you'll want a cam with enough lift to take advantage of the flow.

If you just put a big cam in without doing the heads, you're still going to need to do valve springs and pushrods to handle the lift, and the new cam isn't going to do much for you.

Get the engine in and running, and then save up and do heads/cam at once. You'll need to have it tuned afterwards as well.

[67rally]

i have a 71 chevelle. i picked up a 5.3 out of a tahoe. has the ****ty 706 heads. i guess certain ones were prone for leaking. ill just switch them out.

anyways.. i have some questions as well if i may butt in here if thats ok...

questions i have

-what engine harness do i use and what computer? do i just get the wiring diagram off LS1-tech?
-is it ok just to use the TH400 trans? (yes i know about the spacer part ill need)
-cant you just use a external fuel pump like a aermotive a-1000 instead of switching tanks?
-are you guys just getting a custom driveshaft made?

-I used PSI Conversions for my harness. Nice product, and they are easy to deal with.
-You could use an external fuel pump, but you want to avoid sloshing and fuel starvation, so that's whey most people switch to a tank with an internal pump and baffle.
-I'm using an M12 trans, so I can't help you there, but I already had a fairly new aluminum driveshaft for my old Saginaw, and just had it shortened and rebalanced. The splines were the same.

[SparkyRnD]

we also make a bolt-in radiator for the LS swaps into Chevelle's, let me know if you end up needing one (we also offer PT.com discount as we're a sponsor here)

[chevy4life]

im not sure if this would screw at all with timing but i dont really like the look of the coils ontop of the valve covers. is it ok if i were to run longer lines and mount the coils on the inside of the firewall? im into the "hiding the wire" stuff ever since my uncle hid almost every wire on his 67 fastback. it looks so good

[raustinss]

There are lots of companies which make coil relocation brackets and kits for l.s motors....probably the best then to do is just start looking at other people's set ups and ask what they used, any loss is performance due to the added resistance within the longer wires would be so minimal you'd never notice...maybe a couple hp... and if you need a rad or fan definitely check out RnD Fabrication...i bought a hood release cable n handle...great guys to deal with wouldn't hesitate to deal with them again at all
Ryan Austin

[chevy4life]

im not too worried about relocation brackets just lengthening the wires. so if its that minimal then i will go ahead and do it! thank you and i will keep RnD in mind for future parts