Since the Oil Companies are making record profits......

[BuddyP]

How much $$$$ are they going to donate to the Katrina refief fund???

My guess is nil!

(Yes I'm going to donate.)

[Damn True]

Opec is charging $68 a barrel for oil that costs $4 a barrel to produce.
State and federal govts charge upwards of 30% in taxes on every dollar you spend at the pump.

The oil companies are getting the smallest piece of the pie. Granted, they are making money, but not as much as you'd think.

The real enemy here is the green weenies who have prevented domestic oil exploration and refinery expansion while at the same time demanding we reduce our dependance on foreign oil.

The short term solution is to open the tap on every well in Texas and PA. Drill the hell out of the Santa Barbara Channel and ANWR and tell Venezuela and Canada (where the majority of our foriegn oil comes from BTW) in addition to OPEC, "Thanks, but we have it covered.

And to those demanding we switch to "alternative fuels" I ask this; Name the fuel or technology that will supply every car, truck, tractor, forklift, and jetliner in the country that we can switch to economically and without crippling this economy in the course of doing so and I will support it. If you cant do that, and you cant, shut up.

[getting off my soapbox]

[derekf]

ExxonMobil has donated 2 million dollars (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/exxonmobil/index.jsp?epi-content=GENERIC&newsId=20050830005930&ndmHsc=v2*A1072962000000*B1125467030000*C410249159 9000*DgroupByDate*J2*N1001106&newsLang=en&beanID=2030803304&viewID=news_view), and is providing fuel/oil/lubricants to the "government emergency responders"

ChevronTexaco has donated 5 million dollars (http://www.chevron.com/news/press/2005/2005-08-30.asp).

There's nothing on Shell's website about donations.

Citgo donated 1 million. (http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/DotNet/Newsroom/Query.aspx?SiteName=Citgo&Entity=PRAsset&SF_PRAsset_PRAssetID_EQ=98857&XSL=PressRelease&Cache=True&SubMenu=Releases)

[68protouring454]

wxactely, we do not get a whole lot of oil fromopec but they seem to be the ones who cause our prices to change, as you said the green weenies should let us drill on our own land, this gas/oil deal i gonna make alot of business's fold or come damn close, let alone coat everyone more for delivery etc, this is a joke, here in maine gas went up 25 cents yesterday to 3.00 a gallon, i highly doubt there is a shortage here, but soeone is making all the money, wtf, its a joke, i really wish someone could put together one of these no gas days, companys in all,
jake

[jeffandre]

Here is an excerpt from the company newsletter (internal). "Shell and Motiva will join others in the industry in supporting relief efforts by donating $2 million to the American Red Cross. Additionally, many employees have expressed their wish to directly assist Katrina's victims. To that end, along with the company's direct donation, Shell and Motiva will match employee contributions up to another $1 million. I encourage all Shell and Motiva U.S. employees to consider making individual contributions to help those devastated by Hurricane Katrina rebuild their lives."

Shell is also providing salary continuation to all employees affected, temporary living supplements, and zero interest loans to help employees rebuild their lives somewhat. I would hate to be going through this personally, and I am proud to work for a company that does so much for its employees.

[BuddyP]

And to those demanding we switch to "alternative fuels" I ask this; Name the fuel or technology that will supply every car, truck, tractor, forklift, and jetliner in the country that we can switch to economically and without crippling this economy in the course of doing so and I will support it. If you cant do that, and you cant, shut up.
HYDROGEN....most abundant element in the world.

[harshman]

Man I’d love to see a hydrogen powered 10 second car. That would do it for me I’m tellin’ ya.

[mdprovee]

Jeff, that sounds like Shell, and all the others are stepping up to the plate.

That is a good thing

[Damn True]

HYDROGEN....most abundant element in the world.

Wrong.

You have to use energy to produce, and transport it. In fact, you consume more energy (oil) to create enough hydrogen to run your car for 200 miles than if you just used the oil to run the car.

Hydrogen is an alternative. But not a less costly one, nor is it as efficient. It does produce lower emissions at the end user (your car) but since we have to burn oil (or coal) to produce it and at a rate faster than the vehicles burn said oil we would in fact be creating MORE net emmision than running cars, trucks, and planes on oil.

Not to mention packaging H2 systems in vehicles is absurd. To include an H2 system large enough to run you car for the same distance as a 20ga fuel tank would increase the size and weight of your car by nearly 50%, thus making your car heavier and requireing MORE energy to move it.........see where I'm going here?

[MarkM66]

Wrong.

You have to use energy to produce, and transport it. In fact, you consume more energy (oil) to create enough hydrogen to run your car for 200 miles than if you just used the oil to run the car.

Hydrogen is an alternative. But not a less costly one, nor is it as efficient. It does produce lower emissions at the end user (your car) but since we have to burn oil (or coal) to produce it and at a rate faster than the vehicles burn said oil we would in fact be creating MORE net emmision than running cars, trucks, and planes on oil.

Not to mention packaging H2 systems in vehicles is absurd. To include an H2 system large enough to run you car for the same distance as a 20ga fuel tank would increase the size and weight of your car by nearly 50%, thus making your car heavier and requireing MORE energy to move it.........see where I'm going here?

I agree, the whole hydrogen thing is a crock of S!

And I really hate the GM comercial where the guy says "I produce a vehicle that runs on Hydrogen." Big F'ing deal. You don't sell it, so who gives a damn?

[harshman]

I anin’t no roquet sientst but…


One thing I am sure of is: if successful alternative fueled cars are to be created it will never be because it was government mandated. The market will create a demand for these cars not the government. No matter how many committees are created by the senate and other governing bodies they can not influence the demand. People will drive what they want to drive – it is as simple as that. Look at all the junk the government and media has given to the SUV market and yet it is still one of the most successful markets in the auto industry. If a person can develop an alternative fuel that carries as much kick as an internal combustion then that person will be a success.

[WS6]

I anin’t no roquet sientst but…


One thing I am sure of is: if successful alternative fueled cars are to be created it will never be because it was government mandated. The market will create a demand for these cars not the government. No matter how many committees are created by the senate and other governing bodies they can not influence the demand. People will drive what they want to drive – it is as simple as that. Look at all the junk the government and media has given to the SUV market and yet it is still one of the most successful markets in the auto industry. If a person can develop an alternative fuel that carries as much kick as an internal combustion then that person will be a success.


tell that to CARB.

i agree though that it will come about on its own. forcing it is not the answer. i fully support alternative fuels, but under no circumstances will i give anything up in order to have that alternative fuel. meaning i will not drive a geo metro because someone tells me i have to. i especially will not listen to an SUV driving ignorant ass tell me i cant mod my formula because it will creat more pollution. my modded formula will burn cleaner and create less emissions than your bone stock SUV ever could hope to.

[BuddyP]

Wrong.

You have to use energy to produce, and transport it. In fact, you consume more energy (oil) to create enough hydrogen to run your car for 200 miles than if you just used the oil to run the car.

Hydrogen is an alternative. But not a less costly one, nor is it as efficient. It does produce lower emissions at the end user (your car) but since we have to burn oil (or coal) to produce it and at a rate faster than the vehicles burn said oil we would in fact be creating MORE net emmision than running cars, trucks, and planes on oil.

Not to mention packaging H2 systems in vehicles is absurd. To include an H2 system large enough to run you car for the same distance as a 20ga fuel tank would increase the size and weight of your car by nearly 50%, thus making your car heavier and requireing MORE energy to move it.........see where I'm going here?

Not to get into a pissing match but Wrong X3.

It does take a power source to make Hydrogen but it consist of a generator. Oil products comes into place to basically run a generator. A company called H2Gen Innovations Inc. has already produced a proto hydrogen generating machines. The prototypes are a little smaller than a Dumpster and is ready for mass production to my knowledge. They could operate 24 hours a day using natural gas by means of natural gas pipelines, already used by many gas stations to heat their stores. They claim that "adding a distributed hydrogen fuel infrastructure to support fuel vehicles has the potential to reduce global motor vehicle fuel infrastructure costs by $840 billion to $1.1 trillion over the next 40 years since hydrogen from natural gas requires less investment than gasoline from crude oil. The machine has the capacity to generate hydrogen for $2 a kilogram, which is equivalent to 90 cents for a gallon of gasoline excluding highway taxes." They are saying the machines could support 160 fuel cell cars per day while the average gasoline station refuels 175 vehicles per day.

As far as packing the H2 in cars, GM already has a drivable concept (the "Sequel") that uses 10,000psi tanks with a range of 300 miles and a 0-60 time of 9 second. It dayviewed at the '05 NAIAS.

All of this has been done to date, as time, manufacturing processes and technologies increase it will only get better. It's very real and could happen as soon as 2010 if all stay's on schedule (but you know how that goes LOL).

[nitrovette]

Any of you guys own a gas station before?I have ,im just curious if you really realize what the average gas station makes per gallon of gas.

Ok a little run down of what it used to cost me

on regular i could make anywhere from 3-5 cents per gallon,plus i could make 8-10 cents and super 10-12 cents per gallon sold.So what you see posted on your signs on average,there are guys gouging the public too but average station who abides by the laws buys it for only a few cents to 20 cents max per gallon of whats posted on the board.
Now lets see what it cost to run the station,my electric bill anywhere from 550-850 a month depending on how much pumped,telephone 100 or more,heating bill 500 plus in winter,workers pay and benefits for me and the ex wife a small fortune,and the big one $5500 a month to pay to gulf oil company to lease the building.yes just to lease it.insurance was 10000 a year to cover the building,tools liability etc...as you can see you have to pump a whole lot of gasoline to just try and make a living.Plus having to right that big check every few days when the truck arrived to drop the next load off 8800 gallons each time.i had to work 6 am to 2 am every day 7 days a week.I finally got out.It was definitely a learning experience.

[Kenova]

.............that uses 10,000psi tanks.........

OH YEAH! I really want one of them sitting under my butt. :drive2: , or in the car that some moron is driving when he/she piles into the family car at the intersection. There's a big enough problem keeping natural gas contained safely at 1/3 of the pressure. On top of that, hydrogen is also a greenhouse gas that can also have an adverse effect on the ozone layer. Does anybody really believe there will never be a hydrogen leak?
And don't get me started on these damned battery powered cars :enguard: . They are an enviromental dissaster just waiting to happen.
Any alternative fuel will have to be as easy and safe to handle as gasoline. Right now, the only fuels that come close are alcohol and bio-diesel.
Ken

[harshman]

Alcohol… mmmmmm now I’ll drink to that. :cheers:

[MrQuick]

Any of you guys own a gas station before?I have ,im just curious if you really realize what the average gas station makes per gallon of gas.
Yes I do, I worked and managed a shop/gas station. We made .05 on regular .07 on mid and .09 on super. The company(arco) dictated the pricing. We got 2 calls a day whether to drop or raise prices.
The real money was made in the repair shop. My boss told me that the gas was just to get the public closer to the roll up doors.

[yody]

That explains why you look familiar......now I know where I know you from! You were that guy at the full service pump who peed in my tank!! I want my refund!!

[rob07002]

Any of you guys own a gas station before?I have ,im just curious if you really realize what the average gas station makes per gallon of gas.

Ok a little run down of what it used to cost me

on regular i could make anywhere from 3-5 cents per gallon,plus i could make 8-10 cents and super 10-12 cents per gallon sold.So what you see posted on your signs on average,there are guys gouging the public too but average station who abides by the laws buys it for only a few cents to 20 cents max per gallon of whats posted on the board.
Now lets see what it cost to run the station,my electric bill anywhere from 550-850 a month depending on how much pumped,telephone 100 or more,heating bill 500 plus in winter,workers pay and benefits for me and the ex wife a small fortune,and the big one $5500 a month to pay to gulf oil company to lease the building.yes just to lease it.insurance was 10000 a year to cover the building,tools liability etc...as you can see you have to pump a whole lot of gasoline to just try and make a living.Plus having to right that big check every few days when the truck arrived to drop the next load off 8800 gallons each time.i had to work 6 am to 2 am every day 7 days a week.I finally got out.It was definitely a learning experience.



And to think I was thinking about buying a station.....

But correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the bulk of your profits made at the convienence store? Where the pumps pay the bills

[nitrovette]

I had no convenience store,i had to work my butt off in the shop to stay ahead.

[derekf]

The days of the mom-and-pop owned convenience store have ended - the oil companies are taking over the store portion as well; see if you can find an Exxon that isn't an "On The Run" store; similarly, find a Chevron, Shell, or Texaco store that is not corporate owned (sorry, I don't know the official store names for those chains).

At one point I'd even heard rumors that the oil companies were abandoning the stations that weren't corporate-convenience-store locations as the store is where the big money is made - but I can't give any references on that.

[toxicz28]

10,000psi tanks ....
Remeber the Hindenberg......

"OH THE HUMANITY!!!!"

[toxicz28]

The days of the mom-and-pop owned convenience store have ended - the oil companies are taking over the store portion as well; see if you can find an Exxon that isn't an "On The Run" store; similarly, find a Chevron, Shell, or Texaco store that is not corporate owned (sorry, I don't know the official store names for those chains).

At one point I'd even heard rumors that the oil companies were abandoning the stations that weren't corporate-convenience-store locations as the store is where the big money is made - but I can't give any references on that.
Aren't they franchises?? I remember seeing the state business license in a few Mobil On the Run stores and they said something like "Joe's Mobil On the Run" (joe was not his name, I didn't want to post it)

[derekf]

My understanding was that they were not, but my understanding could (and frequently seems to) be flawed.

[Damn True]

Pat Bedard has a fantastic article on the subject this month.
The not-so-simple truth is that it requires more energy to produce H2 burns more fossil fuel and pollutes more than just burning gasoline.


Of particular interest though is the work Gale Banks is doing in high horsepower diesel. If that technology can be dialed we may be onto something. It is estimated that if only 20% of the cars on US roads were diesel powered that the country would consume as much as 350,000 fewer barrels of oil PER DAY. Beyond that, diesel can be produced from entirely organic and renewable sources like soy etc.

[Jim Nilsen]

I could be wrong but in the future hydrogen vehicles will not have stored hydrogen, they will make it as it is needed for the fuel cell. it may take more time and a bit more science but we have come a lot closer than you are giving it credit for. A long time ago they said we couldn't fly and cars would never replace horses.

Mercedes Benz has a fleet of hydrogen powered cars they are testing in Europe right now so don't be so pesimistic about it.

On the tax side of gas prices we at least have a congressman trying to get our gov to stop the tax for awhile. The cost of gas tax here is a percentage and the highter prices have given the state a windfall compared to the project expenditures toward our roads.
Lets hope it happens where I live and elswhere.

I have also seen the dream that someday we will all travel on a laser beam of light, it is really cool and can you imagine how fast you will travel when you don't have a road? Beam me up to a direct flight path and away we go.

Jim Nilsen