1969 Firebird TA clone track car build

[jlwdvm]

I covered some of the body work that has taken place over the last 4 years (only 2 years behind schedule now) in a previous thread:
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/101980-The-Money-Pit?p=1020598#post1020598
So far I have stripped and reprimed with SPI white epoxy. Then I decided to replace the roof and lower filler panel due to rust pitting from a previous vinyl top. I filled the seams between various body panels with weld and filler rod. I also fitted the windshield trim to the new roof and filled any gaps with All Metal filler. The Trans Am Repro hood, spoiler, and fender extractors have also been heavily massaged to get the fit just right. The subframe is now getting a Ride Tech stage 2 kit with coil overs, muscle bar, and TruTrun installed. I have a Wilwood 6-piston front brake kit waiting on the shelf as well. The big questions right now are whether to go with an LS3 and Tremec https://sdparts.com/details/chevrolet-performance/19301360
, or rebuild the 455 and maybe use the M20 that is sitting on the shelf ($11-12,000 for a Kaufmann 515hp turn-key motor). I'm thinking about using a Currie crate 9" with the Ride Tech 4-link and trying to decide on wheels. 17" Vintage Wheel Works V40's with sticky street ribber are the front runners right now. 82754

[gto406]

Hi Joe,

I am so glad to hear you are considering putting a Poncho back in this Bird. What would truly be interesting is to consider an aftermarket F.I. system - e.g. the FAST EZ-EFI v2 or perhaps the Holley EFI?

Another option may be to consider doing a stroker 400 motor to give you 460+ CID. Some of the kits from Butler (I am sure KRE has them as well) are pretty reasonable, and the cranks included (I think they are Eagle) and rod-kits can hold up decent power levels.

This is a really great project - I shall be following this one closely. The '69 T/A is my absolute favorite pony-car!

Thanks for sharing this!

Cheers,
Brian
'72 GTO 406 Pontiac (restification - see '72 GTO Just-A-Driver Project')
'69 Firebird 406 Pontiac (street/strip).

[jlwdvm]

I considered EFI, but that makes the LS3 look even better when you crunch the numbers. As it stands, the LS and everything associated with it would cost the same as the Kaufmann crate motor (carburated), and the LS has a 2 year guarantee! If I added the price for the EFI and associated fuel tank, the Pontiac route would be more expensive. I already have a 67 Firebird with a lumpy cammed 400 and a 4-speed to get that fix if I need it. Which ever route I go, it has to be reliable, can take a beating, and not leak! The road course I take my Boss (and hopefully my 69 some day) to is 3.6 miles and 20+ turns (Autobahn in Joliet, IL). Lots of decisions to make and money to spend!

[rickpaw]

I'd say go with the LS, especially when you have another bird with a Pontiac engine. Unless you're a purist, I can't see how a Pontiac motor will make sense, considering what you're planning to do with the car. I swapped a 5.3/4L60e in my 67, and wished that I had done it sooner.

[jlwdvm]

I was able to install most of the front Ride Tech suspension this weekend. I'm not sure if I will have to pull the coil overs and cut any of the spring pocket yet for more clearance. At full sag the shocks don't touch, so maybe I will be ok. I started to install the front Muscle Bar. I'm in the process of drilling holes for the mounts and I'm not sure if I will have to trim any metal from the subframe bumps for clearance as it states in the directions. I am close to getting the Wilwood's mountes as well. I have to get a shorter lower caliper bracket mount bolt since I am using TruTurn and the bolt no longer has to pass through the caliper mount, bracket, and steering arm since the TruTurn steering arm mounts in a separate location. I also need to order a Camaro drag link since the Pontiac drag link doesn't work with TruTurn. Pictures to come!

[jlwdvm]

83059830608306183062I had to trim a little off of the front subframe cross member for Muscle Bar clearance. I'm still not sure about trimming the metal bump stops.

[68400BIRD]

Front suspension looks great. Keep the pictures coming.

[Buryingthesun]

looking great!

[rickpaw]

Wow, it will be a very nice car when you're done.

[jlwdvm]

I should have mocked up the suspension before I sprayed the subframe. I have to remove the metal bump stop from the bottom of the subframe (in front of the spring pocket) for sway bar clearance. Luckily a cut-off wheel and a grinder should do it. Shouldn't be too hard to touch up the SPI epoxy.

[jlwdvm]

A few TA goodies. I am going to trim some metal from the lip of the dog house to get a little more air flow from the fender extractors. THey are more "show" than "go" as delivered from GM. I did quite a bit of fitting with Tiger Hair filler to get the gaps for the fender extractors and the spoiler pedestals tight.

[jlwdvm]

8353483535I used a cut-off wheel to get the bulk of the subframe bump stops off and then ground down the rest of the factory weld. I touched up the area with some SPI black epoxy. I also removed a little over 1/8" of metal from the inside edge of the factory spring pocket for coil-over clearance. I need to get some high temp bearing grease and get the Wiwood bearings packed so I can get the hubs, rotors, and calipers mounted. Then it is on the the rear 4-link!

[jlwdvm]

83691I tried to put the pads in last night and it looks like I will have to shim the caliper mounting bracket to move the caliper outboard. THe inside pad has plenty of room (not touching the rotor), but I can't slide the outside pad in. I'm going to try to get ahold of Wilwood today to see if this is common with RideTech spindles.

[bonecrrusher]

Nice brakes/swaybar setup!

[jlwdvm]

84121841198412084122Started to install the 4-link. I had to massage the area of the floor pan at the front bar quite a bit and also a few areas where the trunk pan was ribbed (you can see where I was pounding on the floor pan). Trying to figure out how to get the frame rail L-brackets flush for welding. The bottle jacks give me a souple extra hands since I am doing all of this by myself!

[Captain7787]

Awesome looking car man. Can't wait to see it done!

[jlwdvm]

8509885099After much pounding and massaging, I got the 4-link where I think it needed to be. I held it in place with a bottle jack on each side (working alone) and ran a plumb bob down from each upper coil over mount. Then I measured to a bolt hole on each side at the front leaf spring pocket to get it as close to square as I thought I could (within 1/8"). Welding is almost done. I have to get my 9" ordered and getting closer to biting the bullet on an LS3 and trans!

[jlwdvm]

883878838888386I've had a lot going on lately to say the least and the car has been on hold. I got married and moved into a new house. I managed to get the Chassis Works 6-point cage welded in. My new garage has similar dimensions but I am going to change a few things. i am going to park the Boss in the 3rd stall (shortest stall) and have the 69 in the middle with clear tarps/curtains hanging from the ceiling on a steel rod similar to a shower curtain set up. We removed 2 4'x4'x1' sections of concrete and poured 5000psi concrete so I can install a lift! http://www.revolutionlift.com/RTP9-9000-Pound-Capacity-Two-Post-Lift-P1C3.aspx#MoreDetails I've decided on a Texas Speed LS2 with a Tremec and a Strange S60 rear end. I got a set of Toyo R888's 275's and 315's for my tires. Now I can figure out rim size and get some v40's ordered, then I can get my rear end width figured out and get that ordered.

[Buryingthesun]

Awesome updates!

[jlwdvm]

Still trying to get the new garage up and running. You can see the new footings for the lift that need to cure a little longer before the lift can be installed. Prior to the move I trimmed the metal lip from the area behind the fender extractor openings and then welded the edges back together to make them a little more functional. The fresh meats were delivered just after xmas and I have a new 670 steering box on the way from Speed Tech.

[rohrt]

subscribing

[jlwdvm]

While I'm waiting for the concrete footings to cure before I start installing the 2-post lift I thought I would start measuring for wheel-tire fitment. I'm still leaning toward the Vintage Wheel Works V40's as long as they will be strong enough for road course outings. I about crap my pants every time I look at the prices of forged wheels! I have a Wheel Rite tool to help get the correct back spacing. Since I will be ordering my rear end, I can get it any width I want, so I need to get some input on what I should run for backspacing to get a good looking dish to my rear wheels. I don't want them super deep...just enough. There is plenty of room in the rear for the 315's, but the stock leaf springs are limiting inboard space at the moment. I'm gonna have to hit the back spacing just right to get the front 275's to fit, but if I have to massage the inner wheel wells it won't be the end of the world. In these pix you can also see where I welded in the rocker-quarter seam and the quarter-rear lower filler seam. I also welded in the seam between the quarter and the lower rear windshield filler panel...I used 1/8" steel rod and a couple thousand individual welds!

[1965gp]

Car looks great. I have a 69 TA clone that ironically was a track car before I got it.

Your doing awesome work on it- here is a pic of mine:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/01/a3cd2bca-1.jpg

[jlwdvm]

Nice car...that was the direction I was going when I first bought my 69 off of craigslist. I sold the 455 and gas tank last week....I guess there is no backing out of an LS motor now! I also got my copy of the new LS Swap book yesterday and have been talking with Speed Tech about maybe putting a package together to get everything needed from bumper to bumper.

[jlwdvm]

9031290313Hoping this will make it a little easier to work on the car! Finally got my Lee steering box from Speed Tech. Also talked to Texas Speed. They talked me into ordering a 570hp LS3. it should be done by the end of March!

[bergers59]

what kind of wilwood calipers are those? are they solid mount or floating?
-Brian

[jlwdvm]

FNSL6R non-floating, 1 piece slotted rotors.

[jlwdvm]

912759127691277912789127991280I got a chance to do a few things with the car up on the lift.....so much nicer than using a creeper! Installed the Lee 12.7 box and started measuring for the front rims. I'm going to need to massage the inner-outer fender area between the yellow tape. There is a long thread on Lateral-g about getting 275's to fit a stock sub frame using Tru turn. My measurements and pictures were taken at ride height with the coil over removed. The other debate going on is which LS oil pan has enough clearance to use with the Tru Turn tie rod adapter....looks like the Mast pan might work without cutting the pan or the frame.

[Mr Nick]

Awesome project!

I see you race at the Autobahn in Joliet, are you familiar with their rules/open days etc? I'd like to take my Cutlass (or even daily driver Mazda3) there, but I've never road raced and have no experience. Maybe a classroom session first, if they offer that?

[jlwdvm]

I have been there twice with MVP Track Time and it has been a great experience both times (will be going again this summer). You can find the tech rules on the MVP site. I hope to have my TA there the summer of 2015. You will have to sign up with the novice group until you get some experience. They will provide instructors for free! I watched fottage of the full course on you tube before I went with my Boss...what a blast!

[bonecrrusher]

2 post FTW!

[Later-A-body]

Just read through your build. Terrific build. Really love the car. Good choice on the LS. I went through the same problem as you deciding which route to go before I pulled the trigger on the LS7. I love my Pontiac stuff but was tired of the leaks and wanted the modern drivetrain and EFI. I am building my car to track day and autocross as well. Going to subscribe to your site.

[jlwdvm]

926359263692637Waiting for parts...I ordered a set of V40's from Matts Classic Bowties in 18x9.5 and 18x11 2 weeks ago, bit got word the other day that the mill at the plant is down and they can't make the rears at the moment (custom 7" back spacing). Kim at Matt's has been great at keeping me posted on what is going on. Good news is that the 570 horse LS3 from Texas Speed will be at my doorstep tomorrow! It was shipped with a GM Hot Rod oil pan that I think I will be switching out to either a Mast or Speed Tech pan for improved baffling and fit with the Tru Turn system. I have been watching a couple threads to see what combo of motor mounts, oil pan, headers, etc are going to work best with the Ride Tech system. I fitted the stock Pontiac air dam that should help funnel air through the rad. Thinking of either a C&R or Ron Davis for the radiator with a built in oil and power steering coolers (if needed). Also thinking about fabbing up some wire mesh to use in the front bumper instead of the original grill inserts to increase air flow through the radiator too.

[Stovebolter]

I really like the birds. I almost went this route with one available in Missouri but the fellow just wanted too much. Looks great.

David

[jlwdvm]

I've been following your build too since we are using similar front end set ups. How is your Tru Turn working out? Do you have 275s on the front and what is your back spacing?

[Stovebolter]

I'm fond of the set up myself. I'm running 18x9.5's with 5.75 bs with 275/35/18 BFG's. I wish now I had gone with 6" bs and lightly notched the frame if needed. It is tight! I did quite a bit of modifying to the inner fenders for clearance. Basically, the flange (lip) on the outer that the inner attaches to, is at an angle in factory form. I made that flange angle up at 90 degrees and made the inner fender fit it with a piece added and a lot of splits and bends. With all the variances Im hearing about I would try to borrow a wheel mock up tool.

Disregard: just noticed you have a mock up tool.

[Stovebolter]

Btw. I'm happy I finally found someone (you) that has a good picture of the Ridetech airbar installed, as I am going a different route with the suspension and instead fabricating a torque arm system. I just couldn't wrap my imagination around them installing their air springs without encroaching into the trunk floor. And now I see. Thanks.

[Stovebolter]

And by tight i mean you couldn't cuss a cat without getting hair in your mouth tight. Lol.

[jlwdvm]

I want to get the rest of the rear suspension mocked up, but I have to wait for my wheels so I can measure for a rear end to get made! That mock up tool for the wheels (Wheel Rite), was ok, but too flexible and not accurate enough to justify its $80 price tag, so I sent it back to Jegs. My front wheels will have 6" back space, which I hope will give me a little more wiggle room to get fitment right with the use of steel wheel spacers (if needed). I am prepared to do some bending, cutting, welding to the front inner and outer fenders as well.

FYI: I had do do quite a bit of banging on the floor pan on each side of the pinion snubber (removed) to get the area of the 4-link cradle around the front mounting tabs and bar to sit right so the frame mounts on each side would sit flush.

[1965gp]

Can't wait to see this thing on the ground- anxious to check out the stance

[Buryingthesun]

This is exciting! glad to see more progress!

[jlwdvm]

9277092771570 horses delivered. Motor meet car...car meet motor! Now I have to decide on an oil pan, motor mounts, headers, etc.

[novajess1972]

Great progress on your Bird.

I also wanted to go 11 inch in the rear, but settled for 10 inch and 9 inch up front on my Nova. The Tru Turn system is perfect and gives you lots of room. I did 5.75 BS up front and 7 BS out back. Also using 275s up front and they work perfect.

Can't wait for more of your updates.

[jlwdvm]

Nice build...I'll have to check it out a little closer. I hope my luck is as good as yours when I get my 275's mounted up and installed up front. Kim from Matt's called today and said my wheels should hopefully be here late next week! I might try to get the motor install stuff ordered this weekend, but a lot of places have the motor mounts back-ordered.

[novajess1972]

Your motor is sweet! I eventually want to go LS. I just plan to get the TKO first and cruise with the sb350 until I decide on exactly what the LS plan is.

[jlwdvm]

Well, I bit the bullet and made some orders!
I ordered an LS install kit from Jegs today that has the 302-2 pan, 1 7/8" coated headers, motor mounts, x-member, and Prothane mounts for motor and trans. The price was the same as if you pieced the kit together from Summit, but most of the parts aren't in stock at Summit. My Jegs order will be here Thursday (headers next week). I decided to go with the Holley pan because I want the extra oil capacity it provides. If I have to, I think I will grind a little off the corners of the Tru Turn bracket (with Ride Tech's blessing hopefully) to relieve any interference that people are seeing between the sides of the oil pan and the corner (bend) in the Tru Turn bracket. However, I'm not sure there will be any because with the 275's on front I think I will loose a little turning radius which might prevent the bracket from touching the pan (seen at full lock).
I got a "kit" on the way from Blowler Transmission that includes a T56 Magnum with 2.66 1st gear, Tilton throughout bearing kit, Quick Time bell housing, Stage 3 clutch and pressure plate, trans fluid, Shift lever, install hardware, and a Quick Shifter. They have been great to deal with as well.

[Gil]

Hi Joe,
Love the way it goes
More or less what I dream to do with mine
Very nice !
Gil

[Josh@Ridetech]

Very good work! The car looks like it's coming along great, let me know if you come up with any questions!

[jlwdvm]

Josh,
I thought I sent you a PM about grinding a little off the Tru Turn bracket. Doesn't look like there would be much needed. There is a lot of discussion going on right now in this thread (see post 41 and 45 for pictures of where we are seeing interference) http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1707895-new-hooker-holley-1st-gen-parts-compatibility-ridetech-truturn-3.html

That is the big question right now. My Hooker LS install kit, 302-2 oil pan, etc should be here today, but my T56 trans, bell housing, etc should be here next week.

[jlwdvm]

93173Hooker cross member installed...that took all of 5 minutes. Wheels are supposed to be delivered today!

[jlwdvm]

932349323593236Wheels and tires are getting mounted up today. Started installing the Holley-Hooker LS swap kit. The bottom pix is at full lock...it's gonna be close with the tire on there!

[instro84]

nice work makes me miss my 69 bird.

[bergers59]

what size wheels?

[jlwdvm]

Fronts are 18x9.5 with 6" backspace and 275 tires. Rears are 18x11 with 7" backspace and 315 tires. I have to dial in some negative camber to the front to see how tight things are really going to be. Right now I have zero shims in and I thing I am at positive camber.

[bergers59]

I'm surprised how good the 18's look, usually not a fan of bigger wheels. Keep us updated on how they fit.
-Brian

[jlwdvm]

9333493335933369333793338933399334093341CarX did a great job of getting the tires mounted. I went with 315's in the rear, but would have had plenty of room for 335's I think. The 275's fit better than I thought in the front. I need to do some work to the fender lip to get rid of rubbing on full lock turning....but need to get the front alignment close first. I have 1.3ish degrees of neg camber at the moment with the wheels straight. I had ride height set at 24" on the front.

[glr0212]

When are you expecting to have the alignment done? Looking forward to seeing the final resting place of those front wheels.

[jlwdvm]

I have to get toe set. Not sure how much adjusting caster will affect the tire position. Camber is just ruffed in with scrap steel spacers. I have to look up what Ride tech recommends and get it set to those specs. I will probably run more negative camber at the track. Hopefully will have some more answers in the next few days. The R888's are known for having square shoulders, so I might have a tighter fit then some other brands.

[jlwdvm]

LS swap mounts installed.

[zamora7]

Wow, bunch of nice parts going in this bird. Can't wait to see more of it.

[jlwdvm]

I had to cut the windage tray that came with the motor so the Holley 302-2 pan would fit. The front 6 inches has to be removed and a corner notched for pickup tube clearance. Transmission stuff should be here from Bowler in a couple days.

[IrishBoxer92]

Beautiful, can't wait to see more progress

[jlwdvm]

93974I got a new oil pan gasket and installed the 302-2 pan. I used RTV in the corners per the directions...hope it doesn't leak! My shipment from Bowler arrived yesterday. They have been great to work with.

[jlwdvm]

94429The Quick Time bell housing checked out ok.

[jlwdvm]

So I thought I was making progress yesterday when I got the clutch-pressure plate and bellhousing installed. I started installing the T56 and could get the splines engaged, but I couldn't get the input shaft to slide into the pilot bearing. I thought the clutch and alignment tool might have sagged a little when I was tightening down the pressure plate. The plastic tool didn't slide in very easy when I tested it, so I figured I needed to get the clutch centered better. I also figured out I installed the pilot bearing backwards!!! Back to square one again. Hope to drop the subframe and have the motor-trans in this week.

[jlwdvm]

9472294723Progress!

[cwylie]

I did almost the same thing on mine. I fought with the trans and fought with the trans until I figured out I had a corvette through out bearing in the motor. Went and got the right bearing and then put it in backwards. I messed it up a little getting it back out so I just went to get another one. Lesson learned.

[jlwdvm]

94891948929489394894I dropped the subframe Tuesday night and had a few minutes free Wednesday night to see how everything fits.....it does! I don't have the motor mount or trans bolts in yet, but the holes look good. Hope to get the headers mounted up soon. The Strange 9" should be here in a week, so I can get the rear 4-link installed. 2 major things left to order: Vapor Works Tank and a radiator.

[jlwdvm]

95574955759557695577Strange 9" with 3.89 gears and an S-trac arrived friday...looks stout enough! THe Wilwood D154 brakes should be arriving today. I got around to ordering a Vapor Works tank with a ZL1 pump from Matt's Classic Bowties. There is a 4 week wait on those at the moment. I installed the headers and will have to dimple the headers silghtly on both sides I think to clear the inner tie rods (and remove and plug the grease zerks). An other area of concern is the front of the drivers A-arm. It is going to be very close to the power steering pump pulley as negative camber is added. 3/4" of shims might be max for camber.

[jlwdvm]

Got the rear D154's installed and getting the 4-link started. I also cut an access hole in the trans tunnel for accessing the Bowler Quick Shifter once the car is back together. It will be covered with a bolt-on steel plate.

[rickpaw]

Looking forward to seeing this done. One step closer.

[MadGoat]

Wondering why when you started with a new rear end you did not have welded on the lower control arm brackets for the 4 link and instead are using the bolt on bracket to the stock type spring perch?

[jlwdvm]

9590995908I think the only manufacturer out there that might weld on the RideTech lower mounts is Moser...Strange won't. I would have rather had the cleaner look of the weld-on brackets and I thought about doing it myself, but want to limit the amount of welding on the new rear so I don't warp the axle tubes. I have new 1/2" u-bolts that should be plenty strong. I actually thought about tacking the bracket to the spring perch as a little added insurance. I have the lower bars mounted and I am starting on the uppers. Looks like I will have to do a fair amount on grinding on the weld-on tabs to get them to fit the axle tubes. Also, Strange installed the breather vent right where one of the tabs will need to be welded on. Its threaded into the axle tube, so I an going to plug it and re-tap the tube somewhere else.

[MadGoat]

Yeah Moser even stopped welding the brackets on for RideTech's kit as it is too challenging to get everything right pinion angle wise etc. And since you still have to weld on the upper tabs, and should you want to add the sway bar brackets you will have to weld them on too, in the end with those, and the breather tube location change, you could see where it is best to just weld all the brackets on instead of using the leaf spring perches. You could jig it so no warping occurs, and weld on everything while you have the chance. Looking forward to seeing this together. Great job so far.

[jlwdvm]

9655196550Trying to get the front subframe squared up so I can measure up the rear and get the upper tabs welded in. It is currently 3/8" out of square.

[jlwdvm]

9670796708Over the weekend I was able to get the front subframe lined up as close as I could to square with the rear frame (less than 1/16" out of square). I measured diagonally from the gage hole in the front sub and the hole in the rear frame rail and also front to back (on the same side) using the same holes. I then ran a plumb line down from the center hole in the front sub engine cradle and also a line down on each side of the rear frame rail to find the center of the rear frame. Then I ran a line down from the center of the yoke on the rear end to see how far off center the rear was....and it was dead on! However, there is 3/4" of difference in the distance from the wheel mounting surface to a line ran down from the quarter panel when comparing the 2 sides (the drivers side tire will be 3/4" closer to the wheel lip than the passenger side). I guess the big thing is that I think I have the front and rear aligned to each other as close as I can get them. Now I have to weld in the upper bar mounts.

[lucky13firebird]

Wow, love the wheels and how it's all coming together. Looking good.

[jlwdvm]

9695496953Decided on a radiator: C&R with duel fans, oil and power steering coolers after talking to Paul Hammond. He said I will have to make a few small modifications to my core support to get it to work.

[jlwdvm]

97504I measured...and measured again. I have a line on the floor that is 1/2 way between the rear frame rails and a spot marked from the center hole in the front sub. If I run a line from these 2 points, the plumb line from the center of the rear is with in 1/32" of the center line, and the trans output shaft center is within 1/16". Close enough I hope...even though the rear axle yoke is centered in the tunnel and everything else in the drive line is very close, the rear axle still isn't centered in relation to the wheel tubs.

[jlwdvm]

9755997560I am in the process of getting the upper arm tabs fitted to the axle tubes by adding metal and grinding to fit. I have the passenger side done and moved to the drivers side last night and found that it was different from the passenger side. I measured the axle tubes and found that the drivers side is 1" shorter than the passenger. When fitting the upper tabs on the driver's side the inner tab is on top of the end of the 3rd member case. Wondering if this is normal....taking into consideration that the 3rd member yoke is centered in the body-trans tunnel for the drive line.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Do you want the yoke centered, and not just the width of the entire rear centered?

[jlwdvm]

I would think you would want the yoke centered with the car and lined up with the rest of the drive line (as my car is now). If I moved the rear to the driver's side to make the upper mounts better, I would then have a tire rub on the drivers rear fender because the rear is already biased 3/4" to the drivers side as it sits with the lower mounts bolted up and the yoke centered. I wonder if the Strange 3rd member case isn't symetrical?

Brit Marolf from Ride Tech replied to my thread in the Suspension forum:

Upper Arm Tabs:
So long as you have the front and rear suspension square with each other, and as square as you can get it to the car, the upper bar mounts will fall wherever they fall.
It all depends on what rear end you have. It all looks good from the pics.


Measuring:
What you have determined is exactly what everyone else who ever worked on a 60's vehicle has figured out. . .they were built with HUGE tolerances from the factory.
It is very common for a bone stock F-Body to have different measurements at the quarter panels. They simply didn't care when they only had 7" bias plys to fit under there. Now, have someone cut the quarters off and put on new ones and you never really know where they are going to end up.

Without cutting the quarters off and placing them exactly where you want them in the car, the only thing you can do is get it as close as possible.
If the rear is 0.75" off from WMS to plumb line from quarter, then you can "cheat" it over 0.375" so it's even.

I applaud your efforts to make sure it's all in there as square as can be. However, let's look at this from a real world perspective. . .Say it's my car, and I've measured and done everything you have done. I'm not going to "re-center" the body panels, so I'd put the rear in there and cheat it to one side, keeping it as close to "theoretical" center as I can while still providing ample room for the wheels/tires.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

the case does not look symetrical in your pictures. I would center it [for wheel fitment] and if the yoke is off center, no big deal, thats what u joints are for.

[jlwdvm]

I'm more concerned with vibration at speed than I am with wheel fitment being symetrical. I have ample room for my tires as is and the drive line is all centered with each other and the car.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

the yoke does not need to be centered at all. It will not cause vibration. The yoke off centered to the side is the same as the yoke off centered in terms of height and angle to the tailstock of the trans. The height offset is on most cars out there. The side offset is exactly the same.

[jlwdvm]

Maybe I'm wrong (I'm gonna ask Ron Sutton), but with the rear yoke centered with the trans output shaft there is only one set of angles involved for the u-joints: the 3 degrees down for the trans and the 3 degrees up for the rear axle yoke. If the rear was also offset to one side, that would add a set of angles to the equation right? I think (and I think Ride Tech agrees) that it is more important to center the trans with the 3rd member than it is to center the wheels in the wheel tubs.

[jlwdvm]

To get the front and rear wheel center lines lined up I had to move the rear axle about 1/2" towards the passenger side. This should also help square up the Front-Rear WMS diagonal measurements too. I have the upper brackets fitted and hope to get them welded up soon. Then it is on to fitting the C&R radiator with steering and oil coolers. I also have a Vapor Works tank with ZL1 pump waiting to be installed as well!

[jlwdvm]

After a month of measuring, getting info on chassis set up, scratching head, etc I tack welded in the upper tabs last night. I used the guage tool sent by Ride Tech to get the outer tabs tacked in square and perpendicular to the rear axle tube, then installed the upper arm to get the inside tab tacked so I was sure everything would fit. I used a come-a-long to keep the rear end where I wanted it, and the 2x2's to simulate the coil-overs at ride height (14.5" eye-to-eye).98693986949869598696

[Gil]

Very nice work !
Keep plugging away !
Your Bird is already awesome
Gil

[jlwdvm]

993809938199382993839938499385Back on the ground...5 years in the making!

[Gil]

Very nice work !
Keep plugging away !
Your Bird is already awesome
Gil

What I said !! Bad a$$ car & stance !
Gil

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

Well done car, always wanted to do a 69 Bird. Subscribed!

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Looks awesome!

[jlwdvm]

100113100112Started to modify the radiator core support so the whole front of the radiator would get air flow. I trimmed out the drivers side vertical length so that it could be welded back in to give an original-looking appearance. You can see the lines where I cut the support initially. Then I ligned the corners of this piece up with tho opening and made another cut that will be the seam to be welded. A few short sections of the lip will need to be fabbed up. This mod allows the whole front of the rad to see incomming air. I'm going to fill in all the unneeded holes and drill new holes to mount the rad on cushions. C&R said the rad was basically a "bolt-in with a few simple mods to the core lip"...Ya right!

[jlwdvm]

100248I was able to get the sectioned piece welded in, welded up as many holes as possible, and filled in the 2 short sections of the opening lip. I used a little filler to smooth out the welded areas. This opened up the radiator opening almost 4" and now the complete front of the radiator sees air flow.

[jlwdvm]

101226101222101223101224101225I got the rad support smoothed down and painted. I was able to install the radiator and get things back into the car. Before I did that I changed out the power steering pulley to a smaller one because the original was too close to the upper a-arm.

[jlwdvm]

103107Finally got the rear Muscle bar installed and tabs tacked on. Now I can get my Vapor Works tank with ZL-1 pump installed and plumbed in.

[jlwdvm]

103188103189103190Vapor Works tank installed. Having a lift made it a breeze!

[Trackman]

Great write up, thanks for the info so far on your build.
Did you have to cut the tunnel to get the T56 to fit? Any pics of the clearance it has with the tunnel? Would you be kind enough to take a picture of the headers from the side showing how much they hang down past the frame?

[Peter Mc Mahon]

those back tires are huge! Awesome looking car.

[Cop Magnet]

Nice build! I think you are overthinking the pinion offset front to rear. As long as the drive angles of the trans and diff pinions are the same, the angle of the driveshaft side to side or up and down (within reason) shouldn't be much of a factor.

[jlwdvm]

It wouldn't be a factor as far as drive shaft vibration is concerned, but it would affect the overall handling of the car it the rear tires weren't traveling in a line that was parallel to the front tire track. http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=42568&page=14 check out post #137...Ron said handling in right and left corners would be much different.

[jlwdvm]

I didn't have to touch the trans tunnel and I can get my hand in between the top of the trans and the tunnel! I can get you a picture of header clearance, but if I remember they barely hang lower than the subframe...if at all.

Great write up, thanks for the info so far on your build.
Did you have to cut the tunnel to get the T56 to fit? Any pics of the clearance it has with the tunnel? Would you be kind enough to take a picture of the headers from the side showing how much they hang down past the frame?

[Cop Magnet]

It wouldn't be a factor as far as drive shaft vibration is concerned, but it would affect the overall handling of the car it the rear tires weren't traveling in a line that was parallel to the front tire track. http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=42568&page=14 check out post #137...Ron said handling in right and left corners would be much different.

I think we are talking about different things. The front and rear tire tracks have to be in sync, no question. The differential can be off center and this can still be accomplished, and I think this is what you were describing unless I missed something (axle housings were different lengths).

[Jedrattle]

Really nice build. You made the perfect wheel choice!

[jlwdvm]

Right. With The advice of Ron Sutton, I squared the front and rear wheel mounting surfaces as close to perfect as I could get by adjusting the front subframe as well as the rear axle (prior to welding 4-link tabs on). In the end, the tire clearance to fender lip on the rear is very close to being equal, the WMS is square, and the rear axle center line is off a little bit...but that is what u-joints are for! The axle tubes aren't equal length, but I believe that is how they came from the factory...Strange built the rear axle to factory specs.
I think we are talking about different things. The front and rear tire tracks have to be in sync, no question. The differential can be off center and this can still be accomplished, and I think this is what you were describing unless I missed something (axle housings were different lengths).

[jlwdvm]

103538Lots of header ground clearance

[rchaskin]

Man this thing is awesome!!

You will throw rocks at that Boss after you get this thing on the road!!

[jlwdvm]

103612103613103614The Boss is a awesome car. I'm selling my 67 firebird convertible in the hopes that the new GT350 will be worth buying. Finishing mocking up an access panel to get the the Bowler shifter on my T56 if needed.

[jlwdvm]

103882103883Finished up the shifter access panel and started looking at wiring, spark plug wires, coil relocation brackets, air intake tube...etc. Lots of projects to get done.

[jlwdvm]

104005104006Decided to run the wire harness through the blower motor hole that I left open when I was closing up openings on the fire wall. Thinking about mounting the coils under the dash too.

[jlwdvm]

104180104181104182104183It was a lot more difficult to get part numbers for hoses that would work with my application...I thought there would have been more info floating around for the right hoses! These work well, I had to cut about 4" off the end of the upper hose. The upper hose could be a little tighter at the radiator, but I think it will be ok. I also put a recipe together for a cold air intake that will place the 7" K&N cone filter behind the drivers head lights. only 1 cut to 2 sections of 4" exhaust pipe was needed! I ordered 60 and 60 degree bend sections to get the filter where I wanted it. I ordered the fittings coming off of the throttle body from Spectre/summit.

[jlwdvm]

104253104254104255104256104257Got the intake tube welded up. I need to make a mount to secure the far end to the inner fender well and get it painted. It will be drawing cool air from behind the driver's head light area. I was able to get the clutch master cylinder mounted up after removing a little metal from the original hole in the firewall. The adapter bracket is from Bowler. To get the brake master and proportioning valve mounted I had to remove the pedal mount from inside the car and replace the top 2 bolts with longer ones. Getting ready to mount up the new brakes after consulting with Ron Sutton. He figured out that for what I am going to be doing, I needed to go bigger. Pix are what I had, and what I went to.

[jlwdvm]

105460105461105462Starting to get the front brakes mocked up...I've been a little busy with other things lately.

[SamHatco]

Nice Buck. Kansas?

Sam

[jlwdvm]

That's how we do it in Iowa!

[Widetrax]

Joe,
Just finished reading the whole thread, your doing a great job! I am working on a 68 firebird so a lot of your work caries over to what I will be challenged with. Thanks for getting the answers to many questions I have without even having to ask! Like the tire track being more important than the u-joint side angles. Much appreciated. Keep up the awsome project.

[jlwdvm]

105867105866105865NO problem. I just sold my 67 firebird to make space for a 2016 GT350 that I got lined up with a local dealer. I did a lot of the work on that car before all this stuff was easily found on the internet. Thinking back, I did a lot of things the wrong way the first time!

I got the Goodridge fuel line ran from the tank to the engine bay, front brakes are mocked up, and now working on the rears....they're just a little bit bigger!

[Stovebolter]

The bird is looking great Joe!

[jlwdvm]

Thanks...the new goal is to have it running by spring...maybe! Just ordered a truckload of parts to get a lot of little projects done. The list never ends!

[jlwdvm]

I was able to get a few projects done. I decided to mount the coil packs to the valve covers since I couldn't find a good place under the dash that wouldn't require extremely long plug wires or further extensions of my coil pack wiring. I had to elongate one hole on each coil pack bracket and put 3 washers under each hole and they mounted up great. I also installed a rear axle catch can/breather that I have to plumb after I get a bung welded into the left side of the 3rd member housing. I got the II Much gas tank vent installed and plumbed too.

[lucky13firebird]

nice, looking spiffy

[jlwdvm]

107466I was originally thinking I would route the plug wires between the block and the headers, but thinking I might do something different. This would be a more direct route and significantly shorten up the wire length and keep them away from the headers.

[jlwdvm]

107837107838107839107840I decided to build a shelf to mount the motor electronics in the glove box area. the harness comes in through the blower motor hole. I cut a small slot to get the harness up onto the shelf and hope to be able to use a stock kick panel (after some trimming). I might also mount the 3qt accusump I have coming under the shelf to keep it out of the way, but still accessible.

[Wacker7977]

Beautiful car! All the progress looks great!

[jlwdvm]

107875107874Plug wires turned out good. I tested all of them with an Ohm meter prior to installing. I'm expecting a big shipment from Ron Sutton this week: Sparco Pro2000 seats, Sparco steering wheel with quick release, and Simpson 6-point belts. Ron has been a great source of info on the build. He gave me a lot of input on getting the 4-link welded up in the right relationship to the body and subframe. We also decided that my original brake set up wasn't going to work for what I want to do this the car on track....thus the much larger brakes front and rear. I was scratching my head for quite some time on getting the power steering lines figured out with my Lee 670 box, pump, and cooler...materials to build those should arrive today. My The punch list to get the car started is still extremely long!

[jlwdvm]

108213This fit my butt like a glove. Ron Sutton explained how to take some measurements from my hip and shoulder area so we got the right seat ordered. My side will have a Pro2000 to fit me tightly. the passenger side will have a Pro2000+ to fit a wider range of people...instructors mainly.

[Motown 454]

I like what you did with the plug wires, it all looks great!

[jlwdvm]

108293108294108295I was able to get the PS pulley off and changed out the high pressure side fittings to gain clearance for the hose. Whoever put the original fitting on the pump must have used an impact wrench! I sourced the longer fitting from Turn One. I;ll make the high pressure hose from Fragola 6000 hose and fittings. About 3' should get me from the pump to the Lee box.

[Motown 454]

Nice fix.

[jlwdvm]

108457108458108459I was able to source a heater bypass hose from autozone. It has the bend in it and has a different size on each end to fit the motor outlets. I also made my high pressure power steering hose. I made a small bracket to attach a hose clamp to the hose to keep it in place.

[jlwdvm]

108518I painted and wrapped the Cold air intake tube. I figured if the wrap can keep heat in a pipe, it can keep it out.

[Motown 454]

Nice idea.

[jlwdvm]

108759108760108761I was able to start making my battery cables. I picked up a HF hydrolic crimper that seems to do a good job. I also got the battery mounted in the trunk. I'm going to try to tackle the wiring this weekend. I have an AAW Highway Plus 20 waiting to go.

[Justin@EntropyRad]

Looks like its going to scream

[Motown 454]

Nice. How do you like that crimper?

[jlwdvm]

The crimper seemed to do a good job with my 1/0 cables. I didn't test it by cutting a sample crimp in half to see how well the strands were packed, but some people did on Youtube.

[Motown 454]

Thanks

[jlwdvm]

109197109198I mocked up the Accusump under the dash and took measurements for all pf the plumbing associated with the sump and cooler. By the time it is all said and done I will have over $900 in the plumbing, Accusump and Improved Racing thermostat! The guys that put the word "budget" in their thread title are kidding themselves...or I am going about this all wrong!!!

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Wont' you have pressurized hot oil inside the cockpit?

[jlwdvm]

I considered that. After talking to Ron Sutton about it, I figured I would be ok. It isn't uncommon to run them in the cockpit, trunk, door, etc. The risk of a blowout is small, and it is protected by the roll cage.

[jlwdvm]

109985109986109987109988109989109990Started on exhaust and wiring. Dynotech recommended a 3" steel driveshaft with solid 1350 u-joints. It took them a week to have it on my door step! I had to add a short straight section to the header collector so the x-pipe would work with the Hooker x-member.

[jlwdvm]

110375I had a hard time locating a wire crimp that didn't brake the bank, but was still able to do single and double crimps for my wiring harness. CarShopinc.com carries a Fastronix crimper that cost $70 and seems to do a great job. My second crimp doesn't look too bad!

[jlwdvm]

110573Dove in to TIG welding stainless....got the Borla XR-1 mufflers tacked in place. I had to remove the stock E-cable brackets from the frame rails. I might tack them on more forward if I need to use them. I'm going to add a 30 degree elbow and turn-down to the mufflers to direct the exhaust straight back.

[jlwdvm]

110811110812I was able to finish up wiring the headlights and fitted the bezels...not bad for repops. Started converting the 6-point roll bar to a 10-point cage. Tied in the subframe connectors. I have to fit the roof halo and A-pillar bars yet. I waas able to buy a pre-bent 10-point conversion kit from Jegs.

[cwylie]

Looks good. I wish that X-pipe would fit with my speedtech torque arm.

[jlwdvm]

111321111320I had to cut out the corner of the front and upper dash to get the A-pillar bars located. they will tie in with the front of the door bars. I has to trim the roof hoop down a little and made sone cardboard sleeves with the coping shape cut out so I can slide them up to the main hoop to help me get the appropriate angle to the cope since the roof hoop will be attached at the main hoop corner bend. The strap attached to each side of the roof bracing helped a lot in getting the hoop placed...have to get creative when working by yourself!

[gator68428]

Love the build. Very sweet. I want that tranny cross member. Necessary relief for the 3" exhaust to maintain ground clearance. Wish other aftermarkets would consider that!

Heads up on the position of your MAF sensor. In the inside radius of that bend will be a low flow zone. Greg Banish (http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Management-Advanced-Greg-Banish/dp/1932494421) would recommend you rotate it 90deg.

In my case I found that rotating it an entire 180 deg helped. I'm using 102mm (ID) MAF and 102mm ID custom made fiberglass tubing and was worried about lack of sensitivity at low flow. So i put it on the outer radius of the bend to sample fastest flowing region as possible. Recalibrated the MAF xfer function of course. In my application with a much less severe bend and much longer straights before and after, the effect was still pretty significant--30%!

In my case its a little bit of an S shape, but the flow does seem to prefer the side the MAF is angled at in the picture--as measured by 30% larger flow reading on that side vs 180deg on the other side of the tubing. Also like the fiberglass to insulate the incoming air.

111322

[jlwdvm]

111398111399111402111403111404Thanks for the heads-up on the MAF! I'll look into it.

After much cutting, grinding, checking, measuring, and repeating I got the roof bar and driver's A-pillar bar tacked in. I have about 6" clearance between my helmet and the roof bar. I installed the A-pillar to be parallel with the A-pillar when seen from the drivers view to keep visibility at the max and still be able to install the a-pillar trim. As seen from the side it isn't at the same angle as the a-pillar, but I was more concerned with the driver's view. The Sparco seat and brackets fit well. I also have my column (with lock pin removed) back from GMTilt.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Nice project you have ! What is the diameter of the steering wheel? and is that a quick release? if so, what brand.

[jlwdvm]

I am going to have to get a different quick release...this one doesn't look like it will work with a gm column. I thought it would since I am going to weld it on. I'm waiting to hear back from Ron Sutton on suggestions. I'll get back to you on the wheel. it was the diameter suggested by Ron.

[jlwdvm]

The wheel is a 368.

[jlwdvm]

111763111764111765111766

Had to move the 69 out so I could get the Boss up on the 2-post to get front and rear tow hooks installed.

[1965gp]

Cars sits perfect. Looks like you were able to get pretty good alignment on the headlight housings/gaskets. That's the hardest front end I've ever put together. Has to be like 25 pieces!

[jlwdvm]

The front is certainly a pain...especially when there is a mix of original and aftermarket parts! The bumper is a repo that will need to be bent on the lower passenger side to get it to bolt up correctly. The headlight surrounds still need a final tweeking too, but they are close. I am still trying to figure out if I can do away with the surround gaskets by body working the plastic surrounds with fiberglass. The stance is close, but will need a final tweeking as well. there are no shocks in the front at the moment, just a threaded metal rod with adjusting nuts. I have to masssage the inner fenders to get a little tire clearance, so the rods are easier to remove to put the suspension through its range of motion and check for rubs. The rear springs may need to be swapped since they are truned almost all the way down to get the car to sit that low in the rear. I might have to give Ridetech a call after all the weight is finally over the rear to see where the springs want to be.

[glr0212]

So,

I'm back from the dead. You may have posted this already, but where did you end up on your alignment specs? Looks like at least 1.5 degrees camber. Caster? Ride height at the front fender?

[jlwdvm]

112316112315I haven't set my alignment yet. I'll do that before I start cutting on the front inner fenders. Right now I just have a threaded rod in place of the front spring and shock. I can remove the rod easily and put the front wheel through its range of motion to see where clearance is going to be an issue.

I started removing sections of the dash so I could get the top cross bar welded in. It will serve as a reinforcement for the A-pillar bars and a mounting point for the sheet metal dash I will need to fab up. I installed the GMTilt column and DES rag joint with an NRG short hub and removable steering wheel adapter. The Sparco seat bracket holes line up well with the OEM mounting holes.....for my 5'6" height! Elbows and knees are bent well for aggressive driving and helmet is 6" from the roof halo.

[Ron Sutton]

Car is looking good Doc !

:cheers:

[jlwdvm]

112455Thanks Ron...it helps to be able to get good advice and products! I started welding the dash back together. I'll grind down the welds and smooth the edge where the top of the dash meets the front with some filler and get it painted. It looks like my ECU should work the the IQ3 dash with the OBD2 port. I'm going to call Racepak to confirm and get that ordered from Ron.

[jlwdvm]

113927113928113929113930I wrote down the "To Do" list part 2...there is still a long way to go and there is more to add to the list! At least I can check things off and see some forward movement! I am probably going to pull the motor to install an Improved Racing oil pan baffle kit to help keep the motor alive in the corners...along with the Accusump. Too bad it wasn't available when I installed the Holley 302 pan! Ron said the RacePak digital dash with OBD2 hook up is on the way. I'll need to finalize plans for the dash. The front and rear of the car is wired now. I have to finish wiring up the ECU, ignition, Fuel and Fans now.

[jlwdvm]

114919114920114921I have been getting a few things crossed off...but more gets added to the list all the time! I have everything off the motor and it is ready to come out so I can get the oil pan trap-door baffle installed to keep the motor safe in hard long turns. I did a lot of looking and found very little on getting the gas pedal mounted, but I think I got that figured out. I got the idea from a build on the DSE site. The 3/8" plate I fabbed up mounts to existing holes in the firewall and feels plenty stiff. More importantly, the pedal feels and measures out like it is in the right spot! Most of the wiring is done. After I get the fans, fuel pump, and dash kill switch wired up I will be very close to being able to firing up the motor!

[Motown 454]

It's coming out great! Nice work.

[jlwdvm]

115396115397115398well, I figured if I didn't pull the motor now I might have to pull it later after it blew up from oil starvation! I'm probably overthinking things, but there is a lot of talk about LS3's having oil starvation problems at the track. I installed some piece of mind that will work in conjunction with the 3qt Accusump. The pan baffle wasn't available for the Holley 302 pan when I first installed it.

[jlwdvm]

116574116575Motor is back on the sub frame and piece of mind is installed in the oil pan. While the sub is on the ground I filled some holes in the firewall and repainted it. I have some Duplicolor spray and roll-on bedliner for the bottom of the car. It is already in good shape and has black paint on it. I also dropped the rear to finish up the bracket welds, install the breather bung that will go to a catch can/breather in the trunk, and will get it painted. Going backwards to go forwards!

[jlwdvm]

116689116690116691Removed the Strange 9" to finish up the suspension bracket welds and install a 6AN breather bung in the housing that will go the the catch can/breather in the trunk. My make-shift paint booth worked well...the SPI black primer looks great and is a good match for semi gloss black.

[Motown 454]

It looks good.

[jlwdvm]

Got the rear end put back together. I noticed that the ARP wheel stud heads were contacting part of the park brake mechanism, so I did some grinding to clearance things. I also noticed that the stud head comes extremely close to the yellow park brake spring...hopefully this won't be a problem. I sprayed some Duplicolor bed liner on in the wheel wells and repainted the upper Ride Tech cradle. I'm waiting on a roll of copper nickel brake line, an Eastwood flarer, and a steel braided hose for the rear end. I think it will be as easy as it can get to bend the brake lines while the front sub and rear are off of the car.

[jlwdvm]

117207117206117208117209Bending brake lines with some home-made and purchased tools.

[rohrt]

Looks to nice to hang under the car.

[jlwdvm]

The Eastwood flaring tool works great. I have been cutting the tubing with a air grinder, but I am going to start using a tubing cutter to get a square cut since work-hardening isn't a problem with the copper-nickel tubing. I ordered another roll of tubing since most of my first run lines could use a little improving.... I will use them for templates. I decided to go with this tubing instead of the cheap Amazon stuff for the final lines: http://store.fedhillusa.com/ I figured an extra $25 for a roll was worth it for piece of mind when dealing with mu braking system! This tubing is made in the USA...not China.

[jlwdvm]

117680117686117687117688Started rebending lines with the Fed Hill tubing....actually Made in England I think. The wall thickness is visibly thicker, but still fairly easy to bend. I ran Right Stuff gravel guard over the lines as well.

[Motown 454]

Its looking good, nice job!

[jlwdvm]

120021120022120023Brake lines are officially done...unless I have any leaks! I was able to make a 1-piece line from the master to the right front caliper. I'm not sure how I got that done in 1 take, but it turned out well! Exhaust is close to being done. The rear hangers are tacked on and extensions are on the mufflers. I still have to fab up a pair of turn-downs. I welded in the dash pad holes and filled the front speaker area. Filler is waiting to be sanded flat. The next project is to get the driver's dash and Race Pak figured out. I noticed that after recentering the front sub frame and setting wheel base I have more front tire fender clearance. I will have minimal fender lip tweaking to do.

[icemanrd19]

Where and how are you mounting the ecu and fuse box? I've really been debating about putting it in the kick panel hole

[jlwdvm]

120233All of the wires run through the hole where the blower motor used to live. I made a shelf out of sheet metal that will bolt up the the same area on the front where the glove box hings does, and also bolts to the firewall. My Accusump is also bolted to the bottom of the shelf. All of my relays and extra fuse blocks will be bolted to the shelf as well. I thought I had pictures of it somewhere in here, but here is a recent one during some sheet metal work to the dash. The whole-car fuse box is in the original location. I used an AAW universal kit and fit it to the car since they don't make one for the 69 firebird.

[jlwdvm]

120468120469120470Cold air intake version 2.0 I replaced the rubber 90 with steel and moved the MAF to the straight section for better readings. The whole tube is wrapped with 2 layers of DEI...it took about 5 tries to get it right! Working on getting the RacePak dash mounted to the steering column now.

[jlwdvm]

120519Installed with clamps hidden.

[jlwdvm]

I made a steering column mount for the Racepak with some 16g sheet metal and a piece of 4" metal pipe left over from the air intake. It attaches with a wide t-bolt clamp. Now I can move on to fabbing up a sheet metal dash insert.

[1967marti]

I would worry about the accusump popping on you... I have seen many of them fail at random and shoot oil all over the floor. I'd think having one go off inside the cabin would be hell to clean up, Great work BTW!!

[rohrt]

Pretty sweet build.

[jlwdvm]

That was considered. There are trade-off no matter where you put it. I would rather clean up oil from inside the cabin then have to trailer the car back home after it was scraped off the guard rail because I got oil on the tires. I thought about mounting it in the trunk, but then the oil line has to be extremely long. A large part of why they pop is from improper clamping/installation...from, what I have heard. I'm not even sure I need it since i now have the baffle in the oil pan.

[1967marti]

They are great for pre-lubing the engine and keeping wear to a minimum.
I agree with the logic of having a sill contained inside the car versus having it all over a trailers floor. I would fab up a cover for it at a minimum if you are keeping it where it is, a simple box that covers it in case it pops while you are driving.

[CA69RS]

Should be very cool when it's done

[jlwdvm]

I was thinking that very thing!

They are great for pre-lubing the engine and keeping wear to a minimum.
I agree with the logic of having a sill contained inside the car versus having it all over a trailers floor. I would fab up a cover for it at a minimum if you are keeping it where it is, a simple box that covers it in case it pops while you are driving.

[jlwdvm]

120983120984120985I wasn't sure I liked having the Race Pak mounted to the column when I was going to have to fab a new dash up anyway. So I started working on dash version 2.0. The Race Pak will still be angled so that I am not looking at it at an angle when seated. I will be mounting the battery kill switch in the center of the dash so it can be reached through either window or by me. Time to break out the Harbor Freight sheet metal bender.

[RogueFab]

I love your coiled hardline "uncoiling" fixture. I'm copying that for my shop. THX!

Really nice job on the car too ;)

[jlwdvm]

121361121360I removed the bracing that was behind the stock dash to make room for 1" square tubing that will support my new dash.

[jlwdvm]

122116122117122118Installed everythig to get a final mock up before I pull out the interior and paint the roll cage, firewall, dash, etc. I have Eastwood xtreme mat on the way for the firewall and floor. The passenger side seat is a Pro 2000 Plus, which is a little wider than the drivers seat....in case instructors are wider than me! I only had to drill 1 hole in the inboard bracket on the driver's side to be able to mount the seat with the stock holes. I will have to make an adapter on 1 side to use the Sparco mounts on the passenger side.

[813Demon340]

Any updates? Love what you did with the dash!

[bergers59]

What type of kill switch is that, a two pole or a four pole?

[jlwdvm]

124106124105124107124108It is a 2 pole Joe's Racing switch. I am also going to use a on-off switched positive terminal end at the battery.

I have made lots of progress in the last couple of months...trying to stay occupied while waiting for my '16 Shelby GT350 to get here (ordered in June). Wiring is basically complete. Initially I had a problem wiring the ignition switch since the AAW directions show that of a non-tilt column...which is opposite of a tilt. I placed quite a bit of DEI heat wrap on electrical, clutch lines, etc to protect from header heat. I made a pre-luber out of a Harbor Freight 5 gallon air tank and some fittings I already have to use with the oil cooler and Accusump lines. I was able to prime the motor up to 20psi with Joe Gibbs BR oil. Trans, gas tank, power steering, rear end, rad all filled with fluids and did a once-over on everything. I unhooked the fuel line at the rail and flushed the line by turning the key on and activating the fuel pump. After priming I took the fuel pump and ECU fuses out and cranked the motor until I got 40psi on the mechanical gauge that I installed over the filter area. Then the moment of truth...turned the key and it fired right off!

[Gil]

Congrats Joe, it's awesome !
I love your car but I'm a bit partial.
All the work you did is starting to bear fruit
we need a video !
Keep plugging away mate !
Gil

[jlwdvm]

124626124621124622124623While I am waiting for the weather to warm up so I can paint the dash and roll cage I decided to strip out all of the unused wires from the AAW fuse panel so that I didn't have unused wires coiled up under the dash. I can always add them back later if I need them. I also started laying down Eastwood Extreme mat on the floor and firewall. The engine bay is nearly done. I have to make oil cooler lines and plumb them into the cooler, but I am going to wait until after I do the first oil change. I am not getting any oil info to the dash through the ECU because of what Racepak calls "Inhanced PIDS" that my ECU has for oil sensor info. I had to buy a Racepak cable to wire into the oil pressure sensor wires from the harness and an oil temp cable-sensor that I will install into a port on the oil cooler thermostat. I can get about a 1000 other things out of the ECU, but no easy oil info to use for the dash...figures.

And after 15 months of emails, BS from A-hole car dealers, and waiting, my new family car arrived on Saturday. It was ordered June 4th, built January 4th, placed on a train car on February 7th, and arrived at a great local dealer on Saturday! It is a Track Pack car...of course!

[rchaskin]

I'm no Ford guy....but wow!! That thing looks awesome!

[rickpaw]

I'm no Ford guy....but wow!! That thing looks awesome!

+1. Actually the new Mustang is kind of grew on me.

[jlwdvm]

+1. Actually the new Mustang is kind of grew on me.
I thought the same thing. They look much better in person...and parked in my garage!

[Nine Ball]

The new GT350 is good enough for me to consider another Mustang. Last one I bought was in 2006, and it was junk.

[jlwdvm]

I was able to get the correct Racepak 5V sensor line to hook the dash into the GM oil pressure sensor. After calibrating the sensor to the dash everything works great. Eastwood Extreme Mat was placed in the driver's side so the seat could be bolted in. I am using grade 8 studs and nuts (made the studs from bolts) instead of the factory seat bracket bolts. that makes it much easier to remove/install the seat as needed. I had the scuzzy 4 speed shifter ball that I had temporarily been using and wasn't able to find a ball that I really liked. I started sanding on the ball to remove the parting lines, seams, etc and coated it with black plastic paint. For texture and grip I then coated it with spray-on bed liner. It doesn't look too bad!

[jlwdvm]

125843125842

The maiden voyage.....about 30 feet.

https://youtu.be/ax2N2kAvSIY

[rchaskin]

Sounds good!!

That was a nice trick that you did to make the camera fall back so we could see the botom side....LOL

[jlwdvm]

That's my version of the Barret-Jackson chassis cam.

[jlwdvm]

127033Started finishing the dash. Interior, trunk, and roll cage paint will be next. i can't decide if I want to pain the roll cage white or black. I'm still thinking the exterior will be 69 Trans Am theme.

[jlwdvm]

128653128654128655128656Baby steps...baby steps. The car has been on the back burner for a while now, but I managed to get the cage and dash prepped and sprayed with SPI white epoxy. What a PITA! I bought a $13.00 Harbor Freight detail gun and it actually worked great...for the most part. The finish is great and for that price, the gun is practically disposable!

[Motown 454]

Joe it came out great. Nice job.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Any updates on this or the mustang? I love both cars!

[jlwdvm]

The only thing I have done to the GT350 is add PCV catch cans and a Schroth 4-point harness. I had it to Autobahn in June for a HPDE on their 3.6 mile course. I am no expert, but I think it is all it is cracked up to be. I have been on that track 6 times in my '13 Boss, but the GT350 already feels like a completely different animal!

[jlwdvm]

I got the dash put back in the car and the Racepak dash tach adjusted. I added a fuse at the (+) terminal at the battery to prevent any electrical fires. I also have a master kill switch in the center of the dash that can be reached by me or safety crew from either side of the car. It has been a slow summer with the project...I've had it for 7 years now, but the direction has changed a few times! I'll try to get some pictures up soon.

I was able to get the GT350 to the track earlier this month. I was bumped up to the intermediate group. I was passed twice all day by 2 Z06 C6 vettes. I let them pass, but then was able to keep up with them all the way around the track. It still takes some getting used to shifting at over 8000rpm!130858130859

[jlwdvm]

All business. I went with white for the Nascar/Trans Am look.131209

[Oregon]

The dash looks great! I'm digging the white.

[Josh@Ridetech]

Nice job! The Firebird is beautiful...but so is your GT350, lol. I'm a little biased towards Mustangs. The S550 platform is phenomenal.

[jlwdvm]

I actually thought about putting a coyote or roadrunner 5.0 crate motor in it to really make it different! I had it out of the garage this weekend to check tire-rim clearance. I have a finger's width between the tire and inner fender on each side when the wheels are straight, but at full lock the inside of the tire hits the subframe and comes very close to hitting the muscle bar end link arm where it bolts to the bar...even after grinding off the corner.

[jlwdvm]

At full lock on either side I have a little over 3/8" clearance to the tire from the fender....not sure if this will be enough with body roll figured in. The GT350 isn't a garage queen!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/L50_0367_zpsmixfpqwt-1.jpg (http://s1258.photobucket.com/user/jlwdvm/media/L50_0367_zpsmixfpqwt.jpg.html)

[jlwdvm]

The front parking light-turn signal area will be used for a brake cooling duct inlet, so 132396132397132398132399132400132401132402I was able to find a headlight with a built in LED turn signal that fit with little modification to the tabs on the backside of the light. I had to change out the 2 flashers on the fuse panel to no-load grounded flashers to work with the LEDs. I drilled and tapped a small hole in the front of the lower A-arm to act as an adjustable steering stop.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

What kind of on off switch is that? What's the plans for the rest of the interior? Never mind the switch, I read earlier that it's a Joes

[jlwdvm]

I have more of the Eastwood sound & heat barrier to install, then carpet, head liner, and a few interior panels to fab up. Interior will be mostly all business. I have a Sparco Pro2000 Plus for the passenger/instructor seat. I took measurements tonight to get Wedge slider seat brackets ordered to use in conjunction with the Sparco mounts.

[jlwdvm]

132729132730I started to dial in the toe so I could then get the steering stops adjusted correctly. With the wheel centered, I ran a line across the rear tire to the front, then measured from the line to the rim to get 1/8" toe in on each side....I hope this means that each side is now even. I figured I can now use the toe plates to adjust each side equally to get the toe to around 1/8". Any thoughts?

[Centerforce]

Nice job on the cage! It looks like it fits nice and tight against the chassis. Do those rear bars comply with your sanctioning body?

[jlwdvm]

What sanctioning body?) I won't be racing door-to-door. Originally I used them because I thought I was going to have a rear seat. Most of the cage is made by Chassis Works, but the roof halo and a-pillar bars are made by Jegs.

[Josh@Ridetech]

At full lock on either side I have a little over 3/8" clearance to the tire from the fender....not sure if this will be enough with body roll figured in. The GT350 isn't a garage queen!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/09/L50_0367_zpsmixfpqwt-1.jpg (http://s1258.photobucket.com/user/jlwdvm/media/L50_0367_zpsmixfpqwt.jpg.html)

Awesome! That's what it was built for! :headbang:

[LERM]

Both your toys are awesome sir. Your pre oiling system has my attention too. I'm getting ready to fire an LS motor that has been dormant for a couple years.

[jlwdvm]

I'm sure that it was added insurance to the initial start up. I also pulled a fuse and cranked the motor it get additional oiling....per the GM Performance Parts instructions for crate motors.

[LXCam]

What a great job your doing with this build. It sure looks like you're on the home stretch too which has got to be exciting. Congrats and keep up the fantastic work.

[jlwdvm]

133262133263133264After much head scratching and research, I came up with a seat mount that is sturdier than the OEM 4-point 5/16" alternative that allows for some adjustability with the Sparco seat mount brackets. The OEM holes lined up (barely) on the driver's side, but the seat could only be mounted in the front-most holes on the bracket (placing the seat very close to the wheel). I was going to have to fab up a mount for the passenger side since that seat is slightly wider and the holes wouldn't line up. I used 1"x3" steel tubing with 1" cross bars. The rear cross bar will be the mounting point for the crotch belt. I then welded the bracket to the OEM seat pan. I have about 4" of adjustability now on each side. I used the plumb bob to center the seat with the steering wheel.

[Motown 454]

It looks good and, it will definitely be sturdy enough.

[jlwdvm]

Life gets in the way of a lot of our builds...right? It sure slowed mine down, but it is picking steam again since I had a 125lbs tumor removed (my x wife:). The first order of business is to get the turning radius increased and the inner and outer fenders reworked to increase clearance. I got a set of 1/4" wheel spacers from Jegs to remove the frame rub issue I was having at full lock (my wheels have 6" back spacing when Ride Tech recommends 5.75") I then came up with a plan to gain clearance when at full lock and with body roll considered. I sectioned the outer fender lip after flattening in out. I then hammered it over, but left enough room to get my new inner fender panel behind it. I removed 16" of the inner fender and fabbed up a template it increase the height of the area where it meets the outer fender (the new shape will resemble Speedtech's replacement inner fender shape). I got a sheet of 18g sheet metal to make the new inner fender area. Wish me luck!

[BlackHD]

Nice! Can't wait to see more progress.

Sweet ride.

[67SSDan]

Hahaha, I know all about long builds. My thread has been going on forever.

Digging the car!

Dan

[jlwdvm]

138712138713138714138715138716138717

Finishing up inner fender work. The painters tape shows the area that was modified (from the inner edges of the tape). Lock-to-lock clearance is ok. but I am wondering about the tire hitting the corner of the modified area when I hit a big bump. I tried to follow Prouty's directions and maybe I am over thinking things.

[jlwdvm]

Driver's side inner fender looks cleaner and went quicker. Now I just have to get the inner fender lip flattened out. I thought that the passenger and driver inner fender were the same, but they are shaped differently.139409139410139411

[beater65]

That's a fantastic idea for inner fender skirt.

I may steal that for my Chevelle. lol

[jlwdvm]

Fog light-turn signal area turned into brake cooling duct opening. The turn signal is in the outboard headlight now. The bracing of the lower inner fender had to be cut and bent back a little to clear the duct. I form fit the front of the duct with the back side of the turn signal opening with tiger hair filler. 140636140635140634140642

[Mach1_Ron]

N i c e .............

[Josh@Ridetech]

I wish I had your fab skills. I can't wait to see this car together.

[jlwdvm]

Finally got it titled in my name and registered after nearly 9 years under construction! The plate seems appropriate with nearly 600 horse on tap and Borla mufflers....it's loud!140663

[jlwdvm]

The 3rd version of the dash. I had to hurry because the windshields will be installed on Thursday so I can shake the car down before paint (later this summer)....ans I also want to try to get it to Cars and Coffee this weekend for the maiden voyage! The upper dash was originally white to match the cage and lower dash...bad idea due to reflection on the windshield. Then I changed the upper to semi-gloss black, but I didn't like the finish. I decided to try duplicolor bed liner. I think it turned out great!141199141200141201

[jlwdvm]

Windshields went in without any issues. I'll just have to tape the heck out of them when it comes time to finish sanding and paint.141384141388

[jlwdvm]

It took nearly 8 years, but it is back on the road. I put about 50 miles on it Saturday. I had a fire extinguisher as a copilot. It ran well, but the brakes don't grab well yet...hopefully they just need to be bed in. My son helped me bleed them last night for the 3rd time and no air appears to be in the system. Lots of looks and it is loud and fast as hell (as far as I can tell so far...still breaking in the drivetrain).141589141587141588

[Motown 454]

Congratulations! Keep us in the loop on the break in.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Awesome, congratulations!

[jlwdvm]

I noticed a couple drops of tranny fluid on the floor and traced it back to the rear seal. This pic is with the rear at full drop. Maybe I had a little too much fluid in the trans at initial fill and it expanded when the trans heated up.141631

[Motown 454]

Did you look at it with the suspension compressed? Does it get any tighter?

[jlwdvm]

This is at ride height. I think I will be ok...unless I go airborn.141712

[Motown 454]

It looks good.

[gator68428]

Loving this project BTW. My favorite part about the 69 is rear wing. Just put a stock spoiler on my 68, but I like the wing better. Will be nice to see it out on the track, sometime soon hopefully. What part of the country are you? I'm in FL.

Ever think about Optima USCA? I just got bit by the bug this year and am preparing for further upgrades to be more competitive next year.

I like your cage. I recently put in something similar in my 68 Firebird. From Rhodes Race cars. The price was right and all of the bends were spot on: some of the pieces were too long, but that was no issue as it allowed me to customize it to my liking, some of the pieces were pre-notched and some weren't and some were notched on too long of a piece that need cutting--but that's my only critique--for the price I was more than happy. I squeezed it as high and tight as possible and you almost can't tell I have a cage from outside the car. My main hoop is further back as I plan to sit as far back as possible and soon I will move back steering wheel, pedals and shifter (may accomplish that by moving engine back if I can tackle such an endeavor). I have a project thread but I'm still playing catch up. Hope to be current soon. I still need to add door bars and a dash bar, and i want to put down bars from firewall in the engine compartment. Any plans to do the latter two on your 69?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/06/20170409_122821_zps50lemyhe-1.jpg (http://s393.photobucket.com/user/mitch_mac1/media/20170409_122821_zps50lemyhe.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/06/20170412_134936_zpsbs6yh7hs-1.jpg (http://s393.photobucket.com/user/mitch_mac1/media/20170412_134936_zpsbs6yh7hs.jpg.html)

[jlwdvm]

My 8-point cage is by Alston with the halo and a-pillar bars coming from Jegs. I also added a cross bar between the a-pillar bars that braces them and also acts as the dash mount. I may add the front firewall-sub frame bars later. Next on the agenda is to get the sub frame connector mounts welded to the sub and attached the the connectors before I have to move out of my current home on 7/21. I won't be able to move into my new garage with attached house (1200sq ft, double deep 3rd stall with 2-post lift, 4-post lift, 220 outlets, heat, tv, etc!) until mid October. I hope to get the car into a few autocross events to get the bugs worked out before I hit a larger track like Autobahn. I have a baffled and trap door oil pan, but still need to get the Accusump and oil cooler plumbed in, but I am waiting to do that after I get the break-in oil changed out. I would love to do an Optima event. Road America is about 4.5 hours from me.141725

[Motown 454]

Beautiful garage! pretty nice house attached to it also. That's going to be sweet to work on the car.

[gator68428]

My 8-point cage is by Alston with the halo and a-pillar bars coming from Jegs. I also added a cross bar between the a-pillar bars that braces them and also acts as the dash mount. I may add the front firewall-sub frame bars later. Next on the agenda is to get the sub frame connector mounts welded to the sub and attached the the connectors before I have to move out of my current home on 7/21. I won't be able to move into my new garage with attached house (1200sq ft, double deep 3rd stall with 2-post lift, 4-post lift, 220 outlets, heat, tv, etc!) until mid October. I hope to get the car into a few autocross events to get the bugs worked out before I hit a larger track like Autobahn. I have a baffled and trap door oil pan, but still need to get the Accusump and oil cooler plumbed in, but I am waiting to do that after I get the break-in oil changed out. I would love to do an Optima event. Road America is about 4.5 hours from me.

Wow awesome--that will be a nice shop!

Oh wow, so you integrated the dash bar into the dash. Hidden well, good idea.

Good idea on the getting the bugs worked out on the AutoX courses, same thing I did with mine in the few years prior to my first track day in 2014. I'd love to do RA one day.

Interesting that you mention the Accusump. I am considering what to do with mine. I have baffled trap door oil pan too, but old Pontiac not nearly as good oiling as a LS7 (assuming that's what you have... but same goes for LS-anything). I am planning to rebuild the Pontiac with Eagle rods and forged crank--get the rotating assembly from Butler for ~$2400. Since I'm already invested in with the KRE heads and roller cam etc., and I do the engine assembly myself, its my most cost effective option and will allow me to keep the Pontiac pride going... This 4-bolt main 428 with stock bottom end (My dad, brother and I did the rebuild back in early 2000's) has held up to track abuse well and given me more than I could have expected--and I want to rebuild before I ruin the block. I'm also a little bit lucky too b/c depending on the track and the length of the sweepers, I know I need a better oiling system to be safe.

The Accusump seems like a great intermediate before going all out dry sump--and frankly something I should have done a while ago. The only thing I'm debating for after the rebuild, is whether to go full dry sump or not. Mainly because I want crankcase evacuation of some sort. Butler sells a vacuum kit for $1000. But if I go dry sump I won't need that, but the cost would instead be closer to $2k with custom fab work required on my end... But actually, Butler vac kit + Accusump will be $1500, so I'll have to keep thinking about it. Keep up the good work on your build. Looking forward for updates when you get it on the AutoX and track.

[jlwdvm]

I have an LS3. LS motors can have oiling problems with high g corners, so initially I went with the largest Accusump I could get. Then Improved Racing came out with a trap door/baffle insert for the Holley 302 pan that wasn't available when my motor was built. I got tired of thinking about it, so I dropped the motor with the sub. I pulled the pan and installed the insert for piece of mind. I looked at having Kaufmann build me a 400 in the 550-600hp range, and it was the same as having Texas Speed build my LS3...so I went that route.

[jlwdvm]

I'm in between garages at the moment, but trying to sort out the brakes with the help of Ron Sutton. When is the last time the president of Summit Racing called you back on a Sunday night to help you sort out an issue you were having with your build?!?! I can't say enough about the all of the advice Ron has given me both before and after the sale on products I have used for this build! Heck, he even sent some brake pressure gauges for me to borrow so we could get a better idea of what is going on with my system. One more month, and I will be in my new garage!144348144349

[jlwdvm]

Still lots to do to get the new garage up to speed and it seems like forever since anything has been done to the car, but at least I got it scheduled to be painted after the 1st of the year!146740