Holy crud, can I get some PNs and some pictures of the Willwood setup on a 66 Chevell

[cactuss4]

My car is all kind of messed up. the kits looks totally wrong, the mounting carrier bolt has been rubbing on the rotor and made a groove on the inside. (kind of deep). Wheels don't move that easily, this appears to be a huge cluster. Not my install, but I'm taking it apart to see what's going on, but just looking at it tells me something is wrong. The carrier is wrong or they miss spaced the carrier mounting, or missed a thick washer to prevent the carrier bolt from protruding into the rotor..

And why wouldn't someone install the Wildwood emergency brake kit, if they are putting 4 pot rears on to begin with with a custom Moser rear diff.. uugh, holy heck!!

I make mistakes, don't get me wrong, but seriously if the wheel doesn't turn without lots and lots of effort or the car doesn't free roll after mounting brakes, there is something wrong. Let's not forget the grinding noise, sparks that must of had to been there for the first how ever many miles to wear this grove into the rotor.

Will need to get some assistance here. I'm waiting on the paperwork as this stuff is all suppose to be new, but looking at this not only on the install but talking about a lack of pad contact, haven't torn this apart yet, but the pads have to be soo tiny, nothing here makes sense.

Thanks for putting up with my excited self! Any assistance appreciated

Tory

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[kochevy67]

I would start by finding out if the application was for your car. If it was I would then find out who put them on if you know and ask some ?'s as to what he did. It definitely appears that there is some mismatched parts going on there.

[cactuss4]

I would start by finding out if the application was for your car. If it was I would then find out who put them on if you know and ask some ?'s as to what he did. It definitely appears that there is some mismatched parts going on there.

Ya, that's what I'm trying to do. Passenger side looks like it actually caught fire.. uugh, long weekend, so can't get with wilwood to help identify the cause. I'm guessing it's wrong hardware or incorrect washer/shimming. But even the drivers side, only the outside pistons moved, the caliper should be able to move outside and inside pistons to grab the rotors, this should not be a one sided affair.

I'm wondering if it's because of the tubular A-Arms or NHB steering arm in combination with everything else. Too much new **** up front, will take a bit to work it out.

Passenger side appears to have caught on fire or gotten really warm!!!! <1st world problems I know, but I just picked up this car and to see some of the expensive bits be fubar before I get to drive it..""!"!"!"!"!
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[MuscleRodz]

problem is plain as day in your second pic. caliper mounting bolt is too long and making contact with the inside rotor face. In the first pic you can see where it is making contact.

[cactuss4]

problem is plain as day in your second pic. caliper mounting bolt is too long and making contact with the inside rotor face. In the first pic you can see where it is making contact.

Oh yes that was an easy spot, but trying to figure out the cause, the hardware appears to be the correct stuff based on some reference pictures. But to me I believe it's missing some thicker washers. Or the kit was assembled with bolts that were too long, just need to figure out if this was installed per Wilwood instructions, or are some of the other modifications causing less room than a stock setup, too many questions, but it get's worse :)

Can you see what's wrong on the side that appears to have caught fire? Ya that bolt backed out, the wheel turns about 3/4 of a turn and stops. i'm unclear how the car rolled. This inside bolt hits the carrier mounting bolt and the wheel/rotor can't turn any further. Just maybe when it's on the ground there is enough negative camber that these bolts are separated and there is nothing to hit on the top <shrug> who knows. Just w0w however! Obviously this bolt backed out, because someone wouldn't forget to torque/tighten a single bolt right?

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[GeoffP]

I would replace all of those button head bolts with the kind that can be safety wired. I'm not sure why your kit came with those unless it was specified to use Red Loctite instead?

[dontlifttoshift]

Looks like this kit (http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-10510-DR&year=1966&make=Chevrolet&model=Chevelle&option=Drum+Brake+Spindle), 12.19 rotors and Dynapro 6 calipers. Here are the instructions. (http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds617.pdf)

Is the caliper centered over the rotor? It doesn't look like but there isn't a clear shot to tell for sure. I think the wrong spacers were used between the caliper bracket and spindle. That pushed the caliper and the bracket too for outboard causing your issue. There is usually two shims between the caliper bracket and caliper, I don't see any in your pictures.

[Ron Sutton]

Looks like this kit (http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-10510-DR&year=1966&make=Chevrolet&model=Chevelle&option=Drum+Brake+Spindle), 12.19 rotors and Dynapro 6 calipers. Here are the instructions. (http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds617.pdf)

Is the caliper centered over the rotor? It doesn't look like but there isn't a clear shot to tell for sure. I think the wrong spacers were used between the caliper bracket and spindle. That pushed the caliper and the bracket too for outboard causing your issue. There is usually two shims between the caliper bracket and caliper, I don't see any in your pictures.

I agree with Donny. This is simple.

You don't have the caliper shimmed to the correct placement, so the caliper & bolt are hitting the rotor. Use the gold machined washers to shim the caliper so it is in the center of the rotor.

Best wishes.

[cactuss4]

Thanks, i would agree, although the rotor does appear to be centered in the caliper. But I do agree that there is a spacer or other washer missing, the bolt should not of been allowed to go that deep and to the point of the installer and previous owner (if not the same person) didn't recognize their error, really get's my goat. (beyond other things!).

I'll find some Grade 8 washers (probably not really needed for this, but have always used Grade 8 for suspension stuff). And I can space the bolt out, that will take care of the rubbing on the rotor. I can fix the backed out bolt and make sure the wheel turns freely (maybe even put some blue loctite on each one and reinstall (I'll use the instructions provided (thanks!) for a torque value.

Also my drivers side does not seem to run all that easy, even with no brake caliper on, so trying to diagnose that.

Thanks guys

Centered:
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[GeoffP]

Safety wire is your friend on any bolt that goes through heat cycling. Also use RED not Blue on any bolts not safety wired. Blue will release easily with moderate heat applied whereas red takes a considerable amount of heat to release. I have the same 12.19 with Dynapro 6 calipers on my Camaro. All of the bolts are drilled for safety wire except for the bracket to spindle bolts. The instructions specified red loctite for those. I have inspected my installation a couple times since I installed it and have never found a loose bolt.

[MuscleRodz]

if the other side is tight without the caliper then the wheel bearing preload is too tight. I would also check the other side as well.

[cactuss4]

if the other side is tight without the caliper then the wheel bearing preload is too tight. I would also check the other side as well.

Thanks, I'm pulling everything apart and will reinstall based on instructions. If safety wire was to be used and is not there, Ill do it. I have the tools and the wire. I have one of the first sets of Wilwood brakes made for the S4 on my S4 (uhh), so not new to this, just this particular 'merican kit and the various issues I've found were a bit of a quandary. Just wondering who installed and what their thought process was. I would think a shade tree would be reading instructions, I would think a pompus shop would go by feel/experience and fudge it up <shrug>

Thanks all for the pointers again. I will use red vs blue, will safety wire what needs safety wire and read up on how to set the wheel bearing pre-load. I may have to get the passenger caliper looked at by willwood, based on the amount of heat it saw, make sure the seals/gaskets on that side of the rotor didn't seize the pistons or anything.

Thanks again!
Tory

[MuscleRodz]

In some of the new wilwood kits do not use safety wire bolts anymore I have seen, just make sure they are the correct bolts.

[MonzaRacer]

As for any tapered wheel bearing preload isnt that hard actually. some of the older cars you could still get the actual tighten too torque then you backed off so many flats or what ever.
so in over 25 yrs of working on cars, building and as my job, match up some new seals (most times NAPA can source what you need) I would either use a full synthetic wheel bearing grease or at least I use the Coastal in the silver can from AutoZone, the moly fortified product.
It is speced higher than other non synth.
I pack all my bearings well, either by hand or packer, fill my hubs full, install the rear bearing and seal.
Push it on to the spindle then with careful finger remove excess from around spindle and just where outer bearing goes. This removes most of the air. some people call me crazy and dont put any grease in wheel but then the grease in the bearing isnt held in or resuppliedas some of it breaks down.
then install the outer bearing,washer, nut (as your parts are) then using a pair of channel locks I start tightening the bearings down as hard as I can ,just with those channel locks(you dont need to hold a horse back just seat the bearings well) and do this while rotating rotor. Dont lock it up just a hard turn while they are torqued. THEN back it off to just unload the nut, dont turn or touch the rotor and then just tweak the nut back till it touches the bearing and lightly seats, as in VERY little then add what ever retention tool there is, castle key over nut, or castle nut and install cotter pin.
I have had to change washers, add extra on older spindles, etc or for when customer brought cheap bearings.
I have thousands this way with ZERO failures.
Many think I have too much grease but its supposed to go into the cap, not inside the hub. air compresses, if the cup stays in place then when it cools down and grease is more fluid (softer) and seal works like it should the hub and bearings should always be greased and nothing coming out.
I had a guy with a small car running a bbc and he was overloading the bearings AND not lubing them properly, so when they got hot all the grease ran away from the bearings, and tada, burnt bearings.
Oh and when putting on thes rake kits its sure more than plug and play, gotta make sure bolts dont hit, all are tight and loctited, etc. someone threw it together fast and you get too fix their ineptitude.

[cactuss4]

So pulled everything apart today. Nothing on the hub/rotor assembly was torqued and obviously since one backed out on the pass side, there was no loctite applied either. I also think there were multiple washers/spacers missing.

I pulled it apart, cleaned it all up, changed the grease, packed it well and excessive. Torqued and used the red for all the hub, rotor bolts. Yes, someone was right they are doing star/torx heads now and requiring red loctite vs safety wire. i will have to ask at some point when I meet someone from the Wilwood camp why. So both wheels turn with ease and will spin for a few cycles, not to lose as i don't want in/out movement from the hub bearings. But tight enough that there is no movement and the wheel spins freelyish. I acquired some washers should I believe were missing, and installed them, no carrier bolt into the rotor anymore,

I'll drive it in the next couple of days to see how it feels. I still worry about the calipers, enduring as much heat as they did (melted the powder coating, came off in plastic feeling sheets), so I'll give it a test drive and see if the pistons on both sides of the caliper push and retract..

Found some more things that I will investigate and if i fail at the answer, will post in the area of rear diff Moser discussions (leaking out the front of the diff (the yoke (If i remember my merican parts correctly_..

Thanks again for the help and pointers, it's appreciated
Tory

[a67]

I'm not sure why they would spec torx button heads bolts and red locktite for the rotor to hat bolts. IIRC, red locktite releases at around 400* F, which could easily be exceeded at that location.

Bob.

[drmatera]

83123My 14" 2 piece rotor/hat combo came with bolts drilled for safety wire. We locktited and safety wire them

[Chevy Kid]

In your very first pic it looks like the bleeder screw is pointing down. Maybe there is one on top too?

[cactuss4]

Thanks tim

These calipers have bleeders top and bottom, for when a different mount is used. Obviously one is not going to bleed from the bottom (I do have a funny story on another vehicle, the first time I installed big brakes.. Yes I put the calipers on the wrong side (left on the right and right on the left, which put the cross tube in the wrong place and I spent an entire day, and bled it like 30 times, finally a friend said "umm I hate to ask, but did you install them upside down?", I had!!! hahaha

But these are good, I've since remounted both sides, re-torqued all bolts etc.etc. Now I'm chasing down a hard pedal issue

Thanks!
Tory