thoughts on building a sleeper

[epeterson]

So I've been wanting to sell my 1971 Buick Skylark for some time now. Someone is finally buying it this week and now I have to decide what i want to do next. So i was shopping around on craigslist and found a 1970 Chevrolet Monte Carlo (pictures will be at the end). And what I've been wanting to do for some time is create a sleeper. Something that doesn't have rust but the paint is nowhere near up to par and the interior isn't great but has a massive engine. Now this monte currently has a 350 with 350 transmission as well. If I bought it then I would remove the 350 and drop in a 383 stroker crate engine making 465 horsepower. I've always dreamed of building a sleeper and now I actually have an opportunity. It has discs in the front and drums in the back and stock suspension. This guy is asking for 2500 dollars. NADA guides vales low money 1970 Monte's at 5,700 so this seems like a pretty good deal. He says theres no rust and the body is straight but we'll see when we get there. Not sure if I would keep the 350 trans or buy a new one. (I live very close to chicago and manuals are a pain with all the stop and go traffic around here) i prefer automatic trans. Any suggestions on the trans tho? So drop comments and tell me what you guys think about building a badass sleeper!

[Nicks67GTO]

You could keep the Buick and do something like that? That would be much more of a sleeper!!

[Schwartz Performance]

Too bad you're selling it! At least you get to fund another project though :)

I'd go for a 700r4 so you don't have any electronics to worry about, or throttle position sensing.

[PT Sportwagon]

everyone does chevys, so why not do the Buick. But atleast it is a unique one.not many Monties around.

Tim

[bs46488]

I think sleepers are pretty cool. But it can be hard to pull off the sleeper look.

[thunderzy]

I love the sleeper concept. Beef up the drive train, upgrade the suspension, the brakes, and put some wide tires on it. I built my 79 firebird into a sleeper. Left all the dings, scratches, and faded paint on the exterior alone. It was fun and surprised most on the road and the track. But I think there is a fine line between the sleeper, unfinished, and the rat look. To me a sleeper is hiding something. It doesn't look great but doesn't look sloppy or unfinished either. A sleeper blends in. Original paint, some patina but the dialed in suspension and performance tires and brakes give it away. Only those in the know can spot those things.

[72BBSwinger]

Everyone loves sleepers. I would use a lighter car though. A small block in a tank like that isn't going to surprise to many people imo.

[SRD art]

Back in the early 90s I built a banged up '73 4 door Nova into an 11 second sleeper. Had a lot of fun light to light runs with Camaros, Mustangs, Corvettes, etc. It was a lot of fun and folks liked my car but it never had the same appeal as a nice finished "muscle" car. They always got the limelight, even if they ran 14's but were pretty. I still like sleepers but now would love to have a car that looked nice AND ran well. JMO

I love first gen Montes and would add one or two to my collection if I could. They have a longer wheel base than a Chevelle, for what it's worth that may affect handling slightly. They also weigh a lot, I agree with the small motor and big car deal, not always the best combo. A 700 hp 572 might feel more at home in there than a 383. Even better a 900 hp Duramax that produces 1200 ft lbs would work fairly well too. :)

If it were me, I'd

A. make a sweet cruiser out of it. Nice low buck torquey small block or LS so you have passing power, a 4L60/4L80E for better mileage, A/C, and a nice comfy interior.

B. Put some nasty TT LS, huge Big Block, or Diesel in it, beef up the suspension, add 17x9 steelies all around, and go scare some import owners.

:drive1:

[thunderzy]

B. Put some nasty TT LS, huge Big Block, or Diesel in it, beef up the suspension, add 17x9 steelies all around, and go scare some import owners.

:drive1:

I like this suggestion!!

[epeterson]

Haha thanks for all the input guys. If not a first gen Monte then what else?

I love 69' AMX's and that could truly be a built up pro touring car but its somewhat out of my price range. This sleeper or pro street build would have budget in mind. What classic car do you guys think?

[Craig510]

If you really want a sleeper, build a Falcon. Most of the Mustang parts will bolt up, they only weigh a tick over 3000# (with an iron head small block and a T5), and no one thinks they are fast.

I surprise a lot of people at the Autocross.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDG914wTRgY

[Todd in Vancouver]

Had a Monte in my youth and while it was a an awesome ride to pick up a date and go for a drive with its super smooth feel and a BIG bench seat for getting busy it did weigh something close to the Queen Mary's tonnage. My buddy had one as well and to make a long story short he needed a built big block to catch my SBC Camaro. You'll need lots 'O torque to get that baby moving but they have nice lines and are killer in shinny Black.

[1966longroof]

Sleepers are fun!! As far as your 460+ HP 383, the torque should be the same if not higher. So that should be a good choice. Also, agree with the use of a 700r4 for trans, (2004r is also a viable option as the aftermarket now makes them beefy). It took awhile, but around here most of the newer Stangs, Camaros and Mopars leave me and my ol' wagon alone. Have fun!!!!

[72BBSwinger]

If you really want a sleeper, build a Falcon. Most of the Mustang parts will bolt up, they only weigh a tick over 3000# (with an iron head small block and a T5), and no one thinks they are fast.

I surprise a lot of people at the Autocross.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDG914wTRgYI honestly thought those were lighter! The build in the back of my mind is a 65 Plymouth Valiant. It has alot of the same styling ques as the Falcon and Novas. They weigh in the 2800lb range with a small block.

[406 Q-ship]

Not sure this is the sleeper thing but it is a pro-touring Monte.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/06/DSC_0012-1.jpg (http://s664.photobucket.com/user/Q-ship/media/Monte%20Carlo/DSC_0012.jpg.html)

[SRD art]

Haha thanks for all the input guys. If not a first gen Monte then what else?
...What classic car do you guys think?

Anything lightweight with 4 doors. I'm a Nova fan first, so that would be my suggestion. My 73 had 'glass hood, front bumper, fenders, and trunk lid. Took the front inner fender wells and back seat out, and with the factory front bench and steel wheels it weighed in at 2950 without me in it. It was built for old school street racing rather than autocross, but it still surprised A LOT of folks. I built it in '92. With a small block with no power adders, lifted the left front wheel and ran a 1.63 60' and mid 11s around 110 at the track. That's slow by today's LS standards but it was quick back then.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/4drlaunch1-1.jpg

Another option is a station wagon. I didn't intend my wagon to be a sleeper at all but people keep calling it that. I guess just because it's a wagon makes it count. Mid size Nova and Falcon wagons are light, G Bodies aren't too bad either. Both are supported by the aftermarket autocross based parts manufacturers. Avoid full size wagons, A body based- Chevelle etc. are heavy similar to the Monte, Impala wagons even worse.

Fairmonts are great Ford sleepers, light and based on a fox Mustang chassis. They come in 2 and 4 doors and wagons. How about a Pinto wagon?? Same chassis as a Mustang II, 8" rears are fairly strong and the Mustang II front suspension has tons of options.

[thunderzy]

Love that falcon.

[Craig510]

Love that falcon.

Thanks!

[Bryce]

I don't think my falcon is much of a sleeper but it is light at 2710 without driver. My dads stock 65 ranchero weighs in at 2863 so they can be light cars. But you cannot fit the same tire as a Camaro.

[drmatera]

Back in the early 90s I built a banged up '73 4 door Nova into an 11 second sleeper. Had a lot of fun light to light runs with Camaros, Mustangs, Corvettes, etc. It was a lot of fun and folks liked my car but it never had the same appeal as a nice finished "muscle" car. They always got the limelight, even if they ran 14's but were pretty. I still like sleepers but now would love to have a car that looked nice AND ran well. JMO

:)


It may have beat alot of mustangs and camaros back then but I remember a little grey Buick (john Kerr) you couldn't get around... lets see if you remember me???? . A little hint- I drove a turbocharged 88 fox coupe. The ultimate sleeper as it was beige

[SRD art]

I remember running a 71 (?) Skylark a bunch of times, he had a built 455 Poncho in it and I couldn't shake him until 3rd gear, but it was green and driven by a Spanish kid named Jose I think. Off hand can't remember any other Buicks I ran. Got pics? Tell me more, old age has weakened the memory, lol!

I remember getting beat by a white 70 Chevelle but he got the jump and I paced him from then till the end. There was another guy with a 67 Chevelle with a 383 on the bottle (I think) that prolly would've beat me but we never got around to lining up. Fastest street driven regularly Fox Stang in the area that I knew of at the time was a non turbo'd white GT that ran .01 slower than me at the track. We ran twice one night in Lake Worth, we both won once and were both traction deficient. Would've been a great track race. He owned Thunder autosports or whatever that Mustang based shop that everyone went to was called.

Did you hang out at Horsepower sales and had a TH400 behind your 302? Seems I remember one of the guys down there that had a quick tan notch back. Gimme more I can't remember! :)

[Twentyover]

If you really want a sleeper, build a Falcon. Most of the Mustang parts will bolt up, they only weigh a tick over 3000# (with an iron head small block and a T5), and no one thinks they are fast.

I surprise a lot of people at the Autocross.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDG914wTRgY

You NEED a faster steering box

[72RBMonte]

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Depending on your intended use and if you'll put some better than street tires on the car I'd recommend a TH400 w/gear vendors O.D. On street tires the 700r is great and excellent gearing just wont last with good tires and lots of power, faster than 12's, ill be in 10's with traction issues too. It's a very strong combination and can take the power if the trans is built, is my name indicates I'm a Monte fan myself, and going to a BBC from a very new 383 just want more, the motor is awesome, in the works with a Chassis Works Fab9 w/Wilwood brakes and a Hugh's TH400, have plans already for lots more power and cage to tie the chassis together, runs strong just not where I want to be. I'd rather have power always on tap.
Great choice either way, Montes are not as common same as Buicks.

[Craig510]

You NEED a faster steering box

Its a 16:1 with shelby quick steer arms and short steering arms. I have thought about adding a quickener but it works ok for now.