Advice needed: Economic basic mod for 67-69 camaro suspension

[Buckeyecamaro]

Nice board, I stumbled upon this going a search for First Gen Camaro suspension.

Sorry if this has been discussed here at length. All I could find was full blown suspension overhauls when I searched.

I am looking for advice on some economic modifications I can do to a stock 1st Gen Camaro. I will not be auto crosssing this car or racing of any type. I would like to have some fun on street turns with out the car rolling and slogging like it does with the stock set up.

Is sub frame connectors, front/rear sway bars, bushing change, decent tires going to result in a noticeable change or am I going to have to do deeper than that? Perhaps some advice on basic shock replacement would help.

Nice board and thanks for your help.

[baz67]

Welcome to the site. Do a search for the Guldstrand mod and you will find alot of the information you are looking for.

[boodlefoof]

Welcome to the board.

I hear you on needing some improvement in a first gen Camaro. When I bought my '68 almost 20 years ago now it was painfully stock... It even still had manual drum brakes all around. It was downright scary. My budget was also pretty much non-existent so I had to do upgrades bit by bit. The car was also my driver then and so I also didn't want a lot of down time. I was a very rookie-wrencher at the time.

After blowing my budget for several years on getting the brakes squared away with some disks and swapping the 14'' wheels for some 16 inchers with better tires, I did the following (I still have the car to this day in the same configuration and it is a great street driving car, though a little stiff on rough roads):

First, I put in some bolt-in subframe connectors and solid subframe-to-body mounts. Both were from Competition Engineering. At the time this was about $150. Probably cost you $200 now. This made a much more noticeable difference than I had anticipated. Eliminated a lot of creaks and groans that were annoying too.

Next, I replaced the worn-out shocks with KYB gas-a-just shocks that cost something like $30 at each corner. These shocks were much stiffer and also made a noticeable difference.

Then, I replaced the worn-out front control arm bushings with poly bushings from Energy Suspension and replaced the rear leaf shackle bushings. This cost 50 or 60 bucks. Again, the old ones were pretty worn out, so the upgrade probably seemed more dramatic than it would have been were the rubber bushings in good shape to start with. If I had this to do over again, I might have tried to save up and get solid bushings for the control arms.

To try and give a little extra life to the very worn out mono-leaf springs, I added a set of South Side Machine lift bars. They are like leaf spring slapper bars, but bolt on to the leaf near the front eye to stiffen up the front half of the spring. It helped with tire spin. I don't know that they still make these.

Shortly thereafter, I discovered a crack in one of my mono-leaf springs... so it was time to replace them. While I was at it, I decided to replace the springs at all four corners...

Out back, I replaced the mono-leafs with a set of "factory replacement" 5-leaf springs that I got from Rick's First Generation Camaro. They were the cheap ones that Rick's stocked... about $110 for the pair. I want to say they were a 175# rate spring, but I may not be remembering right. They made the back end sit up too high, so I had to add a 1'' lowering block. Added about $30 to the price tag.

Up front, I got the 2'' lowering coil springs from Hotchkis. At the time they were about $130/pair, now a bit more. They are a 600# rate spring. I also replaced the original sway bar with the Hotchkis 1 1/8'' piece. At the time, this was about $175, now a bit more.

After replacing the springs all around and swapping the sway bar, it was a completely different car. Very little body roll and inspires more confidence in the corners.

When I later took the car all apart, I did the Guldstrand modification (relocating the mount point for the upper control arm to gain more camber/caster) and replaced the factory steering box (which had some slop in it) with a unit from AGR. I couldn't really tell much difference with the Guldstrand mod, but then again I'm not pushing the car to the limit.

[Buckeyecamaro]

Thanks for the info guys.

I don't want to do the Guldstrand mod. I am not going to race this car. I just want a nice bolt in system to improve the overall handling of the car and allow me to have some fun on the occasional a twisty road. John, thanks for the thoughts on a basic adjustment.

The Hotchkis kits caught my eye. Adding sub frame connectors and their shock package to their basic kit would take the total cost to $2700
Hotchkis Sport Suspension (http://www.hotchkis.net/6769_camarofirebird_tvs_system_small_block.html)

I am trying to keep the cost to $2K and that kit appears to deliver what I need though slightly over budget.

Maybe doing my own shopping for the parts in that kit would bring a lower overall cost.

Anyone have a better complete "bolt on" set up for under $3K?

[65 drop top]

This kit seems to fit your needs

Classic Car and Truck Brake, Steering and Suspension Parts (http://www.classicperform.com/Complete-Performance-Package/6774CPP-K.htm)

Have you looked in the classifieds yet? You may find some higher end parts that fit your budget.

[boodlefoof]

...

Maybe doing my own shopping for the parts in that kit would bring a lower overall cost.

...

I think you can piece it together with suitable parts for less. A quick spin through Summit Racing's website turned-up the following:

1. Summit generic branded bolt-in subframe connectors (p/n SUM-770400) $130. ** does not fit convertible ** The Competition Engineering ones that cost about $30 more (those are the ones I have - they went in easily).

2. Competition Engineering solid body mount bushings (p/n CEE-3027) $53.

3. KYB Gas-A-Just front shocks (p/n KG4515) $41/each.

4. KYB Gas-A-Just rear shocks (part number will depend upon year and leaf spring pack) ~$45/each.

5. Control arm bushings - if yours are in good shape, you could put this part off and see how it feels with the other parts upgraded. Otherwise, a polyurethane replacement set from Prothane (p/n 7-217-BL) is $59. You could go with solid ones, but it would cost more.

6. Rear shackle bushings - again, could put this off, but a poly replacement set (p/n PTP-7-1011-BL) is $47. Or, you could do it with standard rubber bushings for a little less. If you get a leaf spring set that comes with replacement shackles, you wouldn't need this.

7. Rear leafs springs - the ones I got from Rick's were p/n SS-25. They have this part number at $180 a pair, though I'm not sure whether it is still the same spring rate and everything. It was a long time ago. Recall that I needed a lowering block kit to get the back end down where I wanted it. Summit has lowering blocks in various amounts of drop for $30-$40 for a kit. Again, depending on the leafs you get, you may not need this. Summit has leaf pairs from Detroit Speed (DSE) and Global West in the mid-$300 price range. The DSE ones are 175# rate, just like Hotchkis. The Hotchkis ones are about $450, but include shackles. I doubt either would require the lowering block.

8. The Hotchkis coils are now $190/pair at Summit. Summit carries other brands that are a bit cheaper (Eibach, etc.), but I'm not sure about the spring rates.

9. For a front sway bar, the Hotchkis is a 1.125'' diameter hollow bar. Summit has it for $220. They also have a Hellwig-made bar with similar specs (p/n HEL-55705) that is $157. Might be an easy way to save a few bucks.

10. I'd try it without the rear sway bar and see how you like it. You can always add it later.

There will be other various and sundry items you may end up needing to replace - clip nuts for the front leaf eye mount, leaf spring mount pads, etc. Factor in another $100 for those bits and pieces... but I still come up with a potential total of around $1,500 even if you go with the Hotchkis springs all around.

[bret]

From my personal and professional experience, the 2 biggest improvements you can make on an early Camaro are:

1. shocks - Although todays shocks LOOK like pretty versions of what the OEM provided since the early fifties, the technology inside is dramatically different. A nice monotube shock will tame most of the road irregularities that you're currently absorbing through your tush. total cost as low as $500. ttp://www.ridetech.com/store/shocks/

2. taller spindles - the OEM GM front suspension geometry tilts the loaded wheel away from the turn. The RideTech spindle is about 1.75" taller [balljoint to balljoint] and serves to tilt the wheel into the turn [like leaning a bicycle into a turn]. The difference in cornering power and overall feel is dramatic. Cost = $350 Components :: Spindles - RideTech.com - Suspension Specialist - Online Store (http://www.ridetech.com/store/components/spindles/)

After that... steering box, sway bars, bushings, front springs, rear springs, new seats, steering wheel...in that approximate order.