Newport Nova Newbie

[kuchinski70]

Hello fellow pro-touring enthusiasts! I wanted to introduce myself since I just purchased my brothers 1970 Nova and want to start restoring/modifying into a Pro-Touring Nova. I've been a fan of Nova's since before I was able to drive. My first car was a '66 Nova which I regretfully sold before I moved to Southern California, but now I'm stoked to get going on this 3rd Gen. It's been sitting in my parents garage for close to 8 yrs. now and I just got it running last weekend.

My list of future upgrades is a mile long, but for now I just want to get it street ready and safe to drive. Looking forward to picking your brains to help me bring this car back to life!

Kevin

Below are some progress pictures from the last month of work.
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[Jon @ Hotchkis]

Welcome to the board, Kevin! She looks like a great starting point. I've got a '72, so if you have any questions along the way, feel free to give me a call.

Do you ever go to Cars and Coffee?

[kuchinski70]

Hey Jon! I've heard about it but never checked it out. Once I get the Nova from Covina to Newport (next couple weeks) I will definitely be there for sure. Looking forward to chatting with you.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Hey Kevin, Man that thing looks great cleaned up! :) Glad to hear another Nova is getting back on the road!! I've got two Novas in progress, one for me and one for my son, and have owned several Novas over the years. You've probably also seen Blake's Nova at events, we here at Speedtech love 'em so we'll keep an eye on your progress. There's great info and great people here to get help and insight from. Keep the photos coming! Welcome aboard!

[kuchinski70]

Just when you think everything is all buttoned up and ready to go...

I got the engine started and it was running a bit rough. You could definitely smell gas out of the exhaust so I knew that something wasn't firing right. I ran a compression test and all the cylinders seamed to be up to par. Checked the spark plugs and distributor, they were working fine. I bring it to an automotive shop around the corner to have them check it out and they say its a bad piston ring in the #8 cylinder and the #7 has a sticky valve. And after all the work I have put in to this project the last month I wanted to shoot myself for not pulling the heads and checking the cylinders. Now I have to pull the engine out and rebuild it or find a 383 stroker short block to replace the 350 I have. Pretty bummed since its almost a brand new engine but it has sat for 8 yrs without being started. Im wondering if its possible that there is gunk build up that can be worked out with some engine additives. Any advice would be appreciated.

Kevin

[Ben@SpeedTech]

I'm curious how did they determine that?

Good cylinder pressure would indicate the valve isn't sticking, at least not when you did the test.

Wouldn't bad rings cause oil blow by rather than raw fuel in the tail pipes?

Based on what you said it sounds like a cylinder is not firing rather than what they said. How did you determine that all plugs were firing? Have you got a heat gun that can measure each header tube's temp? You can get one for about $15 or so. If they're all about the same temp pretty good chance they're all firing.

Have you looked at the carb? Carbs are notorious for internal leaks when they sit for long periods of time. Also how is the choke working? Is it sticking causing a rich condition? Running rich would easily foul a plug and make the car run rough. Are any of the plugs black and sooty after running at normal temperature for a bit? That's a good indication of that cylinder running rich.

Do you have dual exhaust? If your pipes are not connected with a cross over you can narrow your search by which side has fuel smell/ coming out.

If the valve is sticking, I've heard from guys that run shops say Seafoam works wonders, sorry I haven't any experience with it in motors. I had a high mileage Caravan that had a sticky valve and would sometimes shift totally erratically. The shops I checked with said it was rebuild time. I heard about the Seafoam Trans additive and thought it couldn't hurt. Within maybe 10 miles the problem was gone and it worked great, never had the problem again. I think Autozone carries it.

I think you may want to do some more checking before you go through the trouble of tearing the motor out. Just my .02.

[kuchinski70]

Thanks for your input Ben.

I believe they determined it from a wet and dry compression test and a cylinder leak down test. I don't have the readings on hand cause I left the car in my parents garage. But the #7 and 8 cylinders were not within normal range.

I determined that all the plugs were firing by attaching the timing light to each plug wire and it lit up on each one.

The carb was working fine just a few months ago when I had it on my jet boat. So Im not sure that would be the issue.

I do have dual exhaust without a crossover and both sides were smelling rich.

I will give seafoam a shot this weekend when I get back over to my parents house. I definitely want to explore all my options before I tear the motor out.

Thanks again for your advice.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

The timing light might only indicate the plug wire is transferring power. I know it's a long shot but could a plug be cracked and not firing? The heat gun will help here. All header tubes will naturally heat up as the heat transfers through the metal, but with a heat gun you should see a considerable drop if one isn't firing. I got mine for a decent price at Harbor Freight.

Check for a sticking float in the carb too. Any extra fuel seepage in the carb bores while running?

Just trying to think of all little issues first...

[kuchinski70]

Good idea... just bought a temperature gun from amazon for $15. I'm gonna check it this weekend.

[kuchinski70]

I was looking into forums on Seafoam and some guys suggested to use Marvel Mystery Oil because it's less pricey and does the same job. Do you have any experience with Marvel Mystery Oil? Also, If I were to go with seafoam, how did you apply it to relieve the sticky valves?

[Jon @ Hotchkis]

Sea Foam is typically applied through a vacuum line on the intake; it needs to mix with the air and coat the inside of the intake, intake runners, and back sides of the valves. I would assume you could apply the MMO the same way if it does indeed work the same way.

First I would do as Ben was saying, check the header tubes with the car warmed up to see if there is a cold tube, verify the plugs are not fouled and are actually sparking.

You said you had this carb in your jet boat, did you jet the carb for the car's engine? How different are the engines?

[kuchinski70]

The carb was originally on the nova before it was parked for 8 yrs. Recently I was having trouble with the carb that was on my boat so I put the nova carb on it and it ran perfectly. The boat engine is a 350 motor as well. I haven't changed anything on the carb from swapping them.

[Jon @ Hotchkis]

Did the Nova run well 8 years ago? How similar are the engines?

Have you checked the fuel pressure? If not it would be a good idea to hang a gauge on it to make sure your fuel pressure isn't too high.

Let us know what you find.

[kuchinski70]

8 yrs ago it was my older brothers car and it he said it ran fine which is why im not convinced it would be a bad piston ring causing this.

I haven't checked the pressure, I need to pick up a gauge. What pressure should I be at? I am running a 650 holley double pumper with a holley red fuel pump. I heard the magic number is 4psi is that correct?

[Jon @ Hotchkis]

Somewhere in the 4-7psi is the usual go-to number.

[kuchinski70]

Thanks Jon. I purchased a pressure gauge... hopefully it arrives before the weekend so I can test it. I'll let you know how it goes.

[kuchinski70]

Just wanted to give an update from the progress over the weekend.

I started out by running the engine and testing the temperature on the header tubes with the infrared thermometer. I was able to pinpoint the cylinders that were not firing which was cylinders 3,5 and 8 which were below 200 degrees. The rest of the cylinders were around 400 and above. I pulled the plugs that were in the engine from 8 yrs ago (should of done this when I first started) and notice they were pretty black, probably from old fuel. I swapped the plugs from the cylinders that weren't firing properly and presto... the engine ran like new.

Since there was some build up on the plugs I figured I should run some additive through the engine to help break up whatever is remaining and change the remainder of the spark plugs. I added 4 ounces of MMO to the gas tank and the remainder of the quart in the oil. I didn't have time for a street test but I did run the engine for 10 minutes to let the MMO settle in. I still need to get the car registered which will be in the next week or two. Then I will be ready to tear up those new tires.

Thanks again Ben and Jon for your advice... the infrared thermometer is something every gear head should have in their shop. Saved me a lot of time and hassle.

[Sean Cooke]

Welcome - I'm over in HB & always cruising around - feel free to hit me up if you need a hand -

[kuchinski70]

Thanks Sean, nice chevelle btw... just started browsing your thread. I will definitely hit you up if I need a hand.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Congrats!!! Isn't it a great feeling when you find something simple compared to what the "shop" told you could potentially cost a couple thousand. Unfortunately anything automotive is making your best guess based on symptoms, not much unlike doctors, lol! Start with the cheap and simple fixes that might resolve those symptoms and go from there.

On the rings, we can't discount that a motor that sits for a long time may go through condensation cycles enough that rings start to rust and either deteriorate, start to bond with and etch cylinder walls or both. Since you had consistent decent compression it didn't seem this was an issue, but until you tear things down it's sometimes hard to tell for sure. I'd say run it for a bit, maybe put some miles on it, and when you get a spare moment go over things again, like compression and all, just to give yourself peace of mind.

Keep the progress going!!

[Jon @ Hotchkis]

Glad to hear it was something simple! I do like Ben is saying and run the engine for a bit, and when you get some spare time do a leak-down test to see if/how bad the rings are. Now get that thing registered and on the road so we can meet up at Cars & Coffee!

[kuchinski70]

So ready to get it on the road. I'm starting to have dreams of driving it. Hopefully I can get some time this week to make it over to DMV.

[kuchinski70]

Hey Jon,
I finally brought the nova home to Newport after several months of wrenching and tuning. It still needs a few tweaks but I am happy with the way it is performing. Looking forward to taking it over to Cars & Coffee, are you going this weekend?

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Congrats! Now, drive the snot out of it! Enjoy! :)