Whos using oil analysis to their benefit?

[AMSOILGUY]

I thought I would share my recent experience with oil analysis. Please share how you have used oil analysis whether to find a problem or just extending your intervals like in my case. Now this isn't a pro-touring car its actually my wife's DD but is something we depend on all the time. Its a 2012 Subaru with the 2.5. I use AMSOIL 5w-30 Signature series oil and WIX oil filters. AMSOIL states that this oil is good for 15,000 miles in severe service and 25,000 miles in normal operating conditions. We live in town so this vehicle gets a combination of these conditions.

Since AMSOIL didn't have an oil filter for this application I used the WIX and changed them every 5K even though AMSOIL states I can go 10k on the WIX filter. So at 15,000 miles I pulled an oil sample and had it tested at Oil Analyzers in Indianapolis the kit was 25 bucks that included freight UPS. When I received my report back it stated that the TBN was low and to change the filter top the sump off and go another 3,500 miles. Then at 18,500 I pulled another sample had analysis completed again and the report came back the same change the filter top the sump off and go 3,500 miles. So that is 22,000 miles on this oil change. Now for me that was more then enough I drained the sump and put a new filter on.

When the report came back that the TBN was low I was concerned so I called Oil Analyzers and asked them to further explain this to me. What they explained was that the TBN (total base number) is what fights the acids that are in the oil. By changing the filter and topping off the sump you restore the TBN and can continue to use the oil. The viscosity was still a 30 and other then the TBN being low the oil was in good shape. Now it is questionable to me if doing this in my wife's car is really worth it or not because were talking 5 quarts of oil. I did this for piece of mind and plan on just continuing to change the oil at 15,000 miles regardless. Not only that but I wanted to get my hands wet and fully understand this technology.

Now who really benefits from this are those that have much larger sumps and were talking gallons of oil rather then quarts. Plus those that are looking for contaminates or checking for wear materials in the oil. For 25 bucks and being able to determine a problem before a failure in a race application totally makes sense. With that said share your experience if you have used this tool to your advantage.

Jacob

[2yellow69]

Jacob,

That's really good information. I use this technology on a daily basis for work. I work at the local Caterpillar dealer as a field service mechanic (I don't work on tractors though. I work on stationary engines. Think generators the size of a box van.). EVERY engine we do an oil change on or are having a run-ability problem gets an oil sample done. On the oil changes we also do a coolant sample. This has saved hundreds if not thousands of very expensive engines. Some of the guys do this for their personal vehicles as well. I know of at least 1 person who has been able to go to the Chevy dealer and get a new engine out of them. He had been sampling his oil from day 1. At about 40,000 miles he had high contaminants in the oil. The lab test showed the bearings were chewing themselves up. He barely even had to argue. I WILL be doing this on the engine I just finished for our Camaro. Well, if I ever get the car done. I think it's only about $15 through the Cat dealer. We actually have our own lab on site.

Matt

[Rod]

?? so the oil analysis is 25 bucks a pop? and you did it 3 times? that's 75 dollars and since you're an amsoil dealer couldn't you just have changed your oil 2 times for the same amount and had change left over and not worry about it?

[AMSOILGUY]

?? so the oil analysis is 25 bucks a pop? and you did it 3 times?

Yes it was 25 bucks. Rod I only pulled 2 samples at 15k and 18,500. The report at 18,500 said to change the filter and top it off which would put me at 22k. I changed the whole system at the 18,500 anyways. Before using AMSOIL I changed it at 3k because that's what I was told to do. So I'm impressed and confused why nobody explained the difference between oils earlier:dunno:.



that's 75 dollars and since you're an amsoil dealer couldn't you just have changed your oil 2 times for the same amount and had change left over and not worry about it?

I only added a little bit of oil and used 1 filter to get another 3500 miles, plus the 25 bucks for the kit. Not much of a savings in my car and not completely why I did it anyways. It was fun learning and actually doing the testing and seeing the results. Like I said above this will clearly benefit vehicles with larger sumps and those used in performance applications more. None the less I found it useful.

[Rod]

learning is fun, and oil is a very guarded secret, there are only four or five companies in the US make oil additives the largest is Lubrizol and Amsoil and a few other big brands buy from them

[broken1234]

Been done for years on aircraft engines... very valuable tool, especially as the engine ages.

[silvermonte]

Ive done this with Royal Purple just to see if the claims of 20-25k miles on an oil change is true.This is on my DD 1990 olds cutlass with a brand new 3.1, I put 15k miles on the motor before I started this test. First test i ran the oil to 5k miles and sent the sample in while driving with the new oil, the test came back nice and clean. Then i ran the next to 10k miles and changed it, it came back that i need to change the filter and top off the oil. Then on the next one i ran it to 12k miles took me an entire year to do that and it came back with the same results, change filter and top it off. I dont care how good oil is if its older then a year old im going to change it. So what i got out of this is if you run good oil is i can change my filter at 6 months of top off the oil then do a full change at the end of the year. Yeah I spent $75 bucks but that was over 2 years total for this experiment and I learned i can trust the mileage claim for Royal Purple. I only use RP because I can get it stupid cheap from a buddy who owns a shop.

[AMSOILGUY]

Miles thats awesome that you have had good results with RP. I've never used their products but have read about happy customers. So who out there has some diesel equipment that isn't using this tool? If not why?

[MonzaRacer]

Now the odd thing is that a LARGE tree trimming service came to a shop where I worked, Royal Purple came in and switch ALL of their equipment over to RP products, the equipment FAILURE rate was 28% in just the over the road equipment (trucks,cars,etc.) and much higher in stationary equipment (chippers, saws,etc.)
Trust me I have NO bone to pick with RP or any other oil brand, YET extended oil changes with over priced (compared to other brands)(also NOT just one brand) synthetics, even with sampling, I dont trust.
Why, the number and scope of failures in vehicles running lengthy oil changes of certain types just dont stack up to the claims.
Local to the shop where I work, one of the mini sprint (600cc R6) had had TWO engines blow up well before main races.
First one was low miles salvage engine, second was professionally WITH aftermarket ,name brand parts(pistons/rods/etc.) and SAME thing happened, holed the block.
Luckily the builder of second engine agreed that something was wrong and has built a new engine for free. Oil was one of the previously mentioned brands (name withheld to eliminate bashing claims on oil) of synthetics.
Again, no bone here just history. Ran 15w50 Mobil 1and Shell Rotella T6 5w40 Synthetic in my 350 roller when switched over to HOT GMPP cam, on second engine with same cam/lifters.
Good Luck to all on which ever oil you use, I have even used Kendall synthetics when I could get it reasonable,,,then Shell bought the Quaker State/Pennzoil names which upped their contract capacities and let Shell move into more venues with their quality, and I and my brother switched to the Shell Synthetics.
OH and lots of the BMW guys LOVE the Shell T6 as its seems to quiet noisy engines and no failures.
Oh and I have been giving cases of Shell products ,Synthetics and regular oil, with engines I built. And I had built/rebuilt MANY performance engines and gotten awesome service/reliability.
Hmmm maybe Ill see if I can get some Rotella and try it in my Buick.

[AMSOILGUY]

Lee in the race motors and the equipment that had failures was a sample taken?

[RonJitsu]

AMSOILGUY - Is the 2012 Subaru a turbo 2.5 or N/A?
The Subaru turbo motors are notorious for destroying oil. I ran Amsoil Signature 0w30 for the life of my Subaru WRX 2.5 turbo (150K miles before I sold it last year) with UOA's along the way... With mostly highway driving, the most I could safely go was about 7500 miles on an oil change.

I'm an Amsoil guy too, but one of the things that we all have to understand is that you cannot make a blanket statement that any oil will last X number of miles. All engines are different, environments are different, usage is different, and all of these things combined will dictate an estimate of how long an oil will last in a given engine. And as you said, a UOA is the only way to know for sure how long you can safely run an oil in your engine. People get caught up in the marketing of oils and almost nobody uses a UOA to actually test how their engine and oil is performing (TBN, wear metals, fuel dilution, insolubles).

Great post recommending Used Oil Analysis. I hope more people get into it.

[mpozzi]

I use it often for my work ...

Mary Pozzi

[Ron Sutton]

I use it often for my work ...

Mary Pozzi


Where do you work Mary? ... and what do you do ?

[AMSOILGUY]

AMSOILGUY - Is the 2012 Subaru a turbo 2.5 or N/A?
The Subaru turbo motors are notorious for destroying oil. I ran Amsoil Signature 0w30 for the life of my Subaru WRX 2.5 turbo (150K miles before I sold it last year) with UOA's along the way... With mostly highway driving, the most I could safely go was about 7500 miles on an oil change.

I'm an Amsoil guy too, but one of the things that we all have to understand is that you cannot make a blanket statement that any oil will last X number of miles. All engines are different, environments are different, usage is different, and all of these things combined will dictate an estimate of how long an oil will last in a given engine. And as you said, a UOA is the only way to know for sure how long you can safely run an oil in your engine. People get caught up in the marketing of oils and almost nobody uses a UOA to actually test how their engine and oil is performing (TBN, wear metals, fuel dilution, insolubles).

Great post recommending Used Oil Analysis. I hope more people get into it.


Her Legacy is non turbo.


Is there anybody that runs OTR or something along those lines? That will do some testing(which isn't really testing at all because its already been tested)? Lets get technical here and see where your oils are at. Anybody?

[RonJitsu]

Here is a 1985 VW Jetta 1.6 Diesel that I rebuilt with a friend a couple of years ago. We set it up with an Amsoil Bypass filtration setup and a valve for easy oil sampling. I'll see if I can find some of the UOA's from the new engine breakin...

80124
80125
80126

[AMSOILGUY]

That's as good as it gets for oil filtration. AMSOIL by-pass filters filter to 2 microns. Most full flow are 20-30 microns.

[RonJitsu]

That's as good as it gets for oil filtration. AMSOIL by-pass filters filter to 2 microns. Most full flow are 20-30 microns.

Yea its been hugely beneficial for that 1.6 Diesel. It increased the oil capacity from 4 qts up to 9 qts when we use the large filters. The valve makes sampling the oil easy and we're pushing 30K OCI's. Hoping for 50-60K OCI's in the future, we'll keep going longer and longer as long as the UOA's keep coming back good.

[AMSOILGUY]

I use it often for my work ...

Mary Pozzi

Mary what about in your toys? Unless that is your job you speak of?

[badazz81z28]

OAP is very good idea for very expensive and critical engines which failure could lead to catastrophic results. IMHO a waste of money for your DD or even your race car. When you consider...what is there to gain?

It makes perfect sense in aircraft engines because if you have internals going south you want to catch that before it grenades in flight because if you don't your going to crash and die. Despite that, aircraft engines are becoming very reliable and actually OAP is slowly becoming obsolete. OAP doesn't tell you when it's time to change your oil and the cost of the analysis doesn't really off-set the cost of oil.

[AMSOILGUY]

OAP is very good idea for very expensive and critical engines which failure could lead to catastrophic results. IMHO a waste of money for your DD or even your race car. When you consider...what is there to gain?

It makes perfect sense in aircraft engines because if you have internals going south you want to catch that before it grenades in flight because if you don't your going to crash and die. Despite that, aircraft engines are becoming very reliable and actually OAP is slowly becoming obsolete. OAP doesn't tell you when it's time to change your oil and the cost of the analysis doesn't really off-set the cost of oil.


The race engine to a team is just as important as the aircraft engine to the airline. If you can recognize a problem in an aircraft engine the same can be done for a race motor. Difference is you could have a bird falling out of the sky vs having to put your car on the trailer. Yes I recognize the difference and importance but both applications can benefit.

For the DD you can benefit from extended drain intervals which can be a cost savings, time saver, and if you are worried about wasting resources it helps with that too.

[badazz81z28]

The race engine to a team is just as important as the aircraft engine to the airline. If you can recognize a problem in an aircraft engine the same can be done for a race motor. Difference is you could have a bird falling out of the sky vs having to put your car on the trailer. Yes I recognize the difference and importance but both applications can benefit.

For the DD you can benefit from extended drain intervals which can be a cost savings, time saver, and if you are worried about wasting resources it helps with that too.

How does OAP determine drain intervals? Are you suggesting the oil must be good based on the PPMs? What is considered normal? How would OAP determine viscosity break-down or servicability of the oil?

[AMSOILGUY]

This will help in answering those questions clearly. Oil Analyzers website (http://www.oaitesting.com/?=zo1856266)

[mpozzi]

I use lubricant analysis mostly for wear metals and TBN for insurance claims investigations. Pre- vs post-collision and vandalism/theft claims mostly. Between this and a cylinder leak down test, the engine's state of health can usually be determined without the added expense of a teardown.

I have done oil analysis on the engines for our customers and on my own cars. Most of what I own also uses Amsoil lr Redline products so minimal worries there.

Mary Pozzi

[AMSOILGUY]

I use lubricant analysis mostly for wear metals and TBN for insurance claims investigations. Pre- vs post-collision and vandalism/theft claims mostly. Between this and a cylinder leak down test, the engine's state of health can usually be determined without the added expense of a teardown.

I have done oil analysis on the engines for our customers and on my own cars. Most of what I own also uses Amsoil lr Redline products so minimal worries there.


Mary Pozzi


Mary do you receive the AMSOIL Action News? Which is the monthly magazine AMSOIL mails out?

[AMSOILGUY]

OAP is very good idea for very expensive and critical engines which failure could lead to catastrophic results. IMHO a waste of money for your DD or even your race car. When you consider...what is there to gain?

It makes perfect sense in aircraft engines because if you have internals going south you want to catch that before it grenades in flight because if you don't your going to crash and die. Despite that, aircraft engines are becoming very reliable and actually OAP is slowly becoming obsolete. OAP doesn't tell you when it's time to change your oil and the cost of the analysis doesn't really off-set the cost of oil.

Not sure if you have heard of this guy or the Buell name but I bet he is glad that Oil Analysis is available. It sounds like it saved him a whole lot of trouble. xFiCXkrUbnM

[mpozzi]

Mary do you receive the AMSOIL Action News? Which is the monthly magazine AMSOIL mails out?

I do.

Mary P.

[SShep71]

If you are serious about your car. truck, bike, etc then oil analysis is worth every cent. Especially when building a motor and the initial break in period, oil analysis and oil filter analysis are super important. Oil analysis can show potential problems prior to anything actually happening.

[T_Raven]

When I was a tech at a Honda dealer the couple Amzoil customers we had use to drive me nuts wanting samples. The one would always come ask me how the oil looked. It looked like used oil lol.

Some good points have been brought up that I've never considered before. It wouldn't make much sense to do regular UOAs for the life of a car, but doing a few to get an idea of how long you can go on an oil change makes sense. I'll definitely start doing this on a couple of my vehicles, and for sure when I build the engine for my 67 since that engine will be worth more than most of my other vehicles lol.

[Olav]

When i was workshop manager at a shipyard we used to take samples of the oil on thrusters. They often had 6000- 8000 litres of oil. The saving was big at annual survey. Often the oil could be reused and we could minimize job on the units to only sealchange instead of full teardown.

[David Pozzi]

I've used it on heavy farm equipment. It can tell you when a gear case has a bad seal & dirt is entering, & if heavy wear is occurring. On engines, we used regular oil that passes Caterpillar & John Deere specs, & verified change intervals through oil sampling. I liked getting the old oil out of the engine instead of doing the extended interval game.

I've seen final drive tests on our Caterpillar where the service advisor said the test was bad, (dirt & wear metals) but he couldn't recommend weather to tear it apart for service or not. In the end, I had to decide, & they were of no help, which was disappointing.

[AMSOILGUY]

When I was a tech at a Honda dealer the couple Amzoil customers we had use to drive me nuts wanting samples. The one would always come ask me how the oil looked. It looked like used oil lol.

Some good points have been brought up that I've never considered before. It wouldn't make much sense to do regular UOAs for the life of a car, but doing a few to get an idea of how long you can go on an oil change makes sense. I'll definitely start doing this on a couple of my vehicles, and for sure when I build the engine for my 67 since that engine will be worth more than most of my other vehicles lol.

Traven,
When you decide to do this I would get this little guy it was super useful!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/08/G1206-1.jpg
If you are interested in using AMSOIL's products to maximize your results let me know and I can show you how to save 25%.



I've used it on heavy farm equipment. It can tell you when a gear case has a bad seal & dirt is entering, & if heavy wear is occurring. On engines, we used regular oil that passes Caterpillar & John Deere specs, & verified change intervals through oil sampling. I liked getting the old oil out of the engine instead of doing the extended interval game.

I've seen final drive tests on our Caterpillar where the service advisor said the test was bad, (dirt & wear metals) but he couldn't recommend weather to tear it apart for service or not. In the end, I had to decide, & they were of no help, which was disappointing.

I hope I never have that problem with Oil Analyzers and am surprised that Cat advisor couldn't do his job.