Need help: LS swap options

[scottymonte]

Hello all,

i have been building my 76 Monte Carlo as pro-touring themed and now it's time for engine/tranny purchase.
I am looking for some suggestions for swap combos and price. Use for the car will be mostly street with occasional track day.

Needs:

LS
at least 400hp+
6 speed
engine controller
Hedders

budget= 11000.00

any ideas or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Scott

[Tom Welch]

used lq4 or lq9 from a salvage yard. Easily make 400 hp. Cast iron block makes it strong and these engines are cheap, several low mileage engines have got to be within spitting distance of you. GMPP crate engines will get it done, too. More money though. The t56 or tr6060 will eat int your budget quite a bit as well. Headers from Stainless works run 900.00 or so. PSI performance has a pretty good price on the harness which can be modified to fit your application. The parts for sale section on this forum will be a big help, that is where I found my t56. good luck.

[scottymonte]

used lq4 or lq9 from a salvage yard. Easily make 400 hp. Cast iron block makes it strong and these engines are cheap, several low mileage engines have got to be within spitting distance of you. GMPP crate engines will get it done, too. More money though. The t56 or tr6060 will eat int your budget quite a bit as well. Headers from Stainless works run 900.00 or so. PSI performance has a pretty good price on the harness which can be modified to fit your application. The parts for sale section on this forum will be a big help, that is where I found my t56. good luck.

Thanks for the reply Tom.

Do you think a LQ4/LQ9 with stock heads/intake would do it, or switch to the LS3 stuff?
Should I leave the stock bottom end as is if everything looks good?
Do you think something like a FAST harness and controler would be worth the extra money? I am guessing this would save on tunning and dyno time.

Thanks, just trying not to dig myself in a hole that is going to cost more in the long run as opposed to going with a pre-built short block or somthing.

[garys 68]

Go with an LQ9, 400hp with just exhaust and a tune (link below). Lots of LS T56s out there. Looking at under $2000 each for good, low mileage pieces (motor should include accessories, sensors, ecu, harness, petal, etc for that price).
Leave the motor stock, use stock ecu, no dyno time needed. If you want you can swap intake, cam, heads to put you over 500hp. That was my plan, but found I was very happy with it in stock form. Bottom end will hold up to lots of hp.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0710_6l_ls_series_small_block/viewall.html#ixzz21ehbAsre

[srh3trinity]

Don't forget to factor in your fuel system. That being said, you should be able to accomplish this with your budget. there are plenty of people that make good power with cathedral port heads. If you decide to do a cam swap there are plenty of, options to make good power. You may have to switch to a car intake for hood clearance.

[scottymonte]

Thanks to all that are chiming in, I have been having a tuff time trying to decide which way to go. Now that I finally have money to pull the trigger I keep second guessing my choices as if there is something better out there.

For the fuel system I have a quote from MCB for a ricks tank with the vaporworks setup.

My other area of concern is engine mounts and tranny crossmember. A 76 monte carlo is probaly the least popular option for this swap (it is no first gen camaro) so info is scarce.

Thanks, scott

[SShep71]

Scotty I sent you a PM

[garys 68]

You can save a few bucks by using the stock GTO or Corvette exhaust, if they fit. They flow really well and can be found used for about $50.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ls1_engine_header_test/

[scottymonte]

You can save a few bucks by using the stock GTO or Corvette exhaust, if they fit. They flow really well and can be found used for about $50.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ls1_engine_header_test/

Thank you for the link, that's some good info. Although not much is as cool as a set of stainless hedders.

[garys 68]

Less money on "show" means more money for "go".

Thank you for the link, that's some good info. Although not much is as cool as a set of stainless hedders.

[srh3trinity]

There was a low mileage ls2 and t56 in the classifieds on lateral-g.net

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=42416

[scottymonte]

There was a low mileage ls2 and t56 in the classifieds on lateral-g.net

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=42416

Thanks for the link, I will try to contact him. Shipping from CA to OH has to be crazy though.

[srh3trinity]

If you go from dock to dock, freight isn't too bad. I bought a block and rotating assembly and from Tx to AL it was reasonable. Certainly a complete engine and trans is going to cost more, but if you can't find one locally and you buy that right it might be worth it.

[cactuss4]

Thanks for the link, I will try to contact him. Shipping from CA to OH has to be crazy though.

Depending on the weight of the motor. Last time I crated my motor up and shipped it, it was a few hundred dollars. Although the weight of my engine was under 500 lbs and thus could use a standard handtruck. Nothing special.

Tory

[scottymonte]

Thanks for all the info guys, my over all plan is starting to come together.
I plan on getting the ricks tank order in this week. Along with either the BRP swap kit or dirty dingo LS mounts(still not sure on the best way to go here). I am concerened about not finding a cross member that would fit if I do not use the BRP setup, any thoughts?

Thanks again,

[srh3trinity]

The dirty dingo sliders would help. Check out crossmembers.com or I think american powertrain makes a universal

[garys 68]

On the crossmember, Speedway motors sells universal ones in various drop heights pretty cheap. Mock it up, see what you need.
On shipping, I've bought 2 motors on ebay. Lowballed an offer by email after the auction closed without a sale at reserve. Shipping for a motor alone was under $100 to a truck freight terminal. One even hat it here the next day! Has to fit on a pallet, so not sure if trans and motor could ship together.

[scottymonte]

Hello, thanks again for the input.
I found a LS1 / T56 GTO take out with about 75k on it. What is a good price for one of these? Is there any big reason not to go LS1 except for the limited head options?

Thanks,

[garys 68]

Price mainly. Aluminum blocks get about 3x the price of iron. Shifter position on the GTO is set back, might be an issue.

[csouth]

Thanks for the link, I will try to contact him. Shipping from CA to OH has to be crazy though.

If you're in OH, why don't you call Cleveland Pick-a-Part? They are always selling full swaps. They have and LS2\T56 on ebay now. I have never used them, but I think they used to advertised on Lateral-G a lot. You can also get those heads ported or swap in 243 heads.

http://www.clevelandpickapart.com/

[scottymonte]

If you're in OH, why don't you call Cleveland Pick-a-Part? They are always selling full swaps. They have and LS2\T56 on ebay now. I have never used them, but I think they used to advertised on Lateral-G a lot. You can also get those heads ported or swap in 243 heads.

http://www.clevelandpickapart.com/

Thanks for the advice and link, Cleveland Pick-a-Part is the place where I found the LS1/T56 combo. Starting bid was 4999.00. I will probably call them tomorrow to see if they have a out-the-door price on it. If it is anywhere near th starting bid that would be a no brainer I would think.

Thanks, scott

[badazz81z28]

Just be cautious on what you buy especially on Ebay and the salvage yard. I highly recommend a new engine. The transmission too if you can afford it. I always seem to try and save a buck or two and end up kicking my self later. You will much more pleased with a clean engine that you know hasn't been abused.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19258770/overview/

[wayward]

Here is what I've done...

5.3L $500 had 18k miles
LS 6 intake $ 350. I don't remember exactly what I paid but this is close
TR 224 cam - haven't done yet.. Going to get it running and then do a cam swap
T56 I bought a ctsv on eBay for about $480
Requires a different bellhousing - quicktime $500
Had Jason at Texas Driveline Performance do a f body conversions and stage 2 kit. About $1100
Holley efi controller $1400. No dyno necessary, self learning.
Doug's header and ls mounts $800 . Don't use , they do not fit well and I've looked at a lot of pictures on line.
LS7 clutch and flywheel
Speedway motor hydraulic lines and speed bleeder

According to the magazines 400 hp is achievable with this combo with some head work but wanted to get the check in the block for now and intend on doing a LS2 swap in a few years. I'm doing a complete frame off and couldn't spend as I would like to on every piece of the build.

I know this is really pieced to gether but my budget is the largest comstraint due to scale of the project. This combo cost a less than $6000 and with the exception of the long block is complete for the project and future. You could look at pieces and look for alternatatives...

Make sure your engine mount and headers work together. I had to buy multiple sets and still not happy with fit due to my headers..

Also don't forget the harness & oil pan
EL

[wayward]

If you have a cubic inch fetish start with bore size.. Otherwise LS1 would be fine. I would call someone one like http://texas-speed.com for HP and head questions. Then I would call Jason at Texas Drivetrain Performamce to see if you have options for the shifter.

The base of these engines and granny's are build on the same platform. I would also make sure if you want to go gen 3 or gen 4 before I bought my computer.

I went gen 3 because I'm doing a driver and if I ever do build a big hp motor I will just do the 24x reluctor.

[67rally]

Price mainly. Aluminum blocks get about 3x the price of iron. Shifter position on the GTO is set back, might be an issue.

You can get an aftermarket shifter to put it anywhere you like. I have an '04 GTO T56 in my '67 Camaro.

[cmac06]

You could get a pullout from a GTO for under $6k. That'll have the harness and trans. If you don't mind running an external fuel pump, conversion of your tank should easily covered with $1100. That gives you a little to play with for headers, mounts and accessories.

[Vicinity]

You could get a pullout from a GTO for under $6k. That'll have the harness and trans. If you don't mind running an external fuel pump, conversion of your tank should easily covered with $1100. That gives you a little to play with for headers, mounts and accessories.

Brand new tank from Tanks Inc with a fuel pump in tank (with a sump) for $650 or so. I have one, works great.

[67rally]

Brand new tank from Tanks Inc with a fuel pump in tank (with a sump) for $650 or so. I have one, works great.

I have the same one, and am very happy with it.

[scottymonte]

I do not think they offer one for my application (76 Monte Carlo). I might have to call and check.

Thanks,

[srh3trinity]

Tanks inc makes a weld in kit. Order up a replacement tank so you don't have to cut or weld on an old tank.

[badazz81z28]

I do not think they offer one for my application (76 Monte Carlo). I might have to call and check.

Thanks,


You can't go wrong with a Rick's tank. Like I mentioned...re-think any money saving ideas you have. "less cost" sometimes cost less for a reason.

[scottymonte]

You can't go wrong with a Rick's tank. Like I mentioned...re-think any money saving ideas you have. "less cost" sometimes cost less for a reason.

Should I go with the vaporworks or the standard tank? It looks like the only real benefit is hard cornering and acceleration with low fuel level. Is this correct?

Thanks,

[cmac06]

A lot of newer cars use a setup like the vaporworx system. If you can afford it I would do it to avoid running the pump dry.

[wayward]

Tanks inc makes a weld in kit. Order up a replacement tank so you don't have to cut or weld on an old tank.

This is what I have done.. New stainless tank from eBay less than 200 bucks for an abody.

Great kit!

[wayward]

Should I go with the vaporworks or the standard tank? It looks like the only real benefit is hard cornering and acceleration with low fuel level. Is this correct?

Thanks,

The vapor works is the cats meow.. Baffled with multiple pickups across the tank. Very expensive!!

I personally don't see the cost vs benefit unless your driving like your on a g pad. (Prolonged turns in one direction) However you do need to find a solution with some type of baffling to keep fuel around the pump intake during "typical aggressive" style of driving.

In my opinion if money is no object you can't do better than the vaporworks setup. But function of the tanks inc kit is great! No problems after several units of experience (buddies cars).
I would stay away for the spectra unless they have improved. I made this decision about a year ago, so more may be on the market today..

[Later-A-body]

To save you quite a bit of money I recommend using a '90-'96 Impala gas tank. I have one installed in my '73 Grand Am. It fits perfectly in my frame and works flawlessly. I only had to modify the straps. The tank is plastic and very light, is already baffled. The cost was $60.00. You will need to buy one from a car that had the LT1 installed in order to be able to have the correct pickup. You will need to purchase a new fuel pump pickup harness from Racetronix for about $200.00. This comes with a 255 liter Walbro pump. This is a very high quality kit.

[scottymonte]

Would you happen to have any pictures of it in the car?
Thanks for the info.

[scottymonte]

So I pulled the trigger on LS1/T56 takeout with only 70k on it. Pick it up Monday.
What is the best place to get the wire harness modified?

Thanks Scott.

[scottymonte]

Hello,

I picked up the LS1/T56 combo Monday, it is in great shape. My next issue is the wiring harness.
Questions:
Who should I send the harness to be reworked? I would like to send it out this week as I am sure there is some lead time to complete this kind of job.
Texas Speed looks like my first choice for ECU reprograming possibly with one of there cam kits, any others I should consider?

Thanks again,

[67rally]

I hear Speartech is good for modifying your existing harness.

I went with a new stand alone harness from PSI Conversions, and then sold my old one on eBay. Jon at PSI was great to work with.

And I'd let whoever does your harness do your ECU flash as well.

[Tom Welch]

we have purchased 2 harnesses from PSI and we were happy with both of them, ask as many questions as you can, they will do this too, and you will get a good product from them. Your ls1 should be a great swap, just dont get discouraged when you run into the inevitable fitting issues. As for power, my combo is pretty mild, 6.0 block (lq4) ls3 heads and intake, cam from EPS, 1.75" primary longtube headers, almost 500 hp and 473 lb ft of torque. all parts are stock except the cam, springs, headers, oversized pistons. our 5.3l has an ls6 cam and intake and its almost at 400 hp with headers. you are gonna love the power potential of your ls1.