72 Nova "bout time"

[Dmaxed]

79178Figured I better start my project thread. My car is a 72 Nova. I recently bought the California car with a stock 350/350, 12 bolt rear with Eaton posi, Corvette drilled and slotted brakes, QA1 adjustable coil overs and Wilwood proportioning valve. The only real rust that I could find is around the trunk seal. I decided I would spend some money on a few areas to help the car perform and might do some body restoration during the winter or something. This way I can hopefully get the car back on the road and hit the track for a bit. I took the stock 350 out and I’m in the process of putting in a 512hp 350 I already had in my project S10. I ordered a complete automatic to Tremec 6 speed conversion kit from American Powertrain. I am also tearing out all of the wiring and have started putting in a Painless wiring kit. I got a set of Corbeau LG1 seats with 4 point harnesses to hold me in place during the racing I plan on doing. I should be getting my Rick’s stainless tank anytime now as well. I plan on documenting all the mods I do with a ton of pics but won’t bore you with pics of stuff you all already know how to do (like taking out a motor!)
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Out with the old. I’m surprised the car didn’t overheat from lack of water flow when I drove it back home after buying it.
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These are my Hedman headers (part 66003) I picked up for my Brodix angle plug heads. I had to put some dents still to get them to fit unfortunately. Got them bolted up and put in the motor.
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Getting the front interior out of the way so I can cut up the trans tunnel for the new 6 speed. I’m pretty sure the car was originally had a bench seat because of the seat bolt holes and the seatbelts in the middle. One of the previous owners put the front buckets in but on the wrong sides so they were lop sided and the release was on the inside instead of the outside. Their fix was to add some spacers instead of just putting the seats on the correct sides. I will take a wire wheel to the floor to help clean it up a bit. I will probably just buy some new carpet atleast for the front.
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I noticed the drive shaft was not on the pallet with my trans so I will call this week and see if I have to call them with the measurements or if it was a mistake. The kit comes with it and I figured they would already have the measurements for a Nova but maybe not. I also have not seen a rubber boot for the shifter so will check on that.
I will take lots of pics of the assembly and install of the trans, wiring and fuel system. Let me know if someone needs clarification or more pics. I appreciate all feedback, good or bad.

[Dmaxed]

The temperature finally cooled down some today so I got some work done on the Nova. I got the trans on the jack, bolted on the Quicktime bell housing and bolted it up to the motor. I jacked up the trans until it started hitting the trans tunnel. The transmission hit at the white lightning shifter, just behind the shifter and the top ear that bolts to the bell housing. I drilled small holes at the corners of where I needed to cut from under the car then used a cut off wheel from on top. I had to cut completely through the floor support under the floor to fit the transmission up high enough. I mocked up the trans on the X factor cross member on the lowest of the 3 settings. I made some relief cuts in order to make more room on top of the trans. I decided I was going to just cut the entire tunnel out because of the amount of patch work and welding and this would also make it look a little cleaner. This is not needed if you cut the approximate areas I started at and weld them back together. I cut down the middle and was just going to spread the tunnel apart and up some then weld a small strip in between. I figure both ways would take me about the same time considering the weld time.
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This is approximately where the new trans tunnel will be. There is about ½ in clearance at the back bolts. I later bent my patch down a bit at the rear so I should have maybe ¾ in clearance. I feel more comfortable with that than the minimum ¼ in the instructions. I started my new patch but making a template out of construction paper. I traced that onto some 18 gauge sheet metal and cut it out. I would normally have bent the patch over a piece of iron and used a hammer but since I moved I didn’t have anything. So, I ended up bending it by hand which was a PITA. I finally got it to fit pretty good though. I then traced around the patch on the stock tunnel. I cut just inside my line by about 1/8 in to allow room to grind and make the patch fit better. The patch is now ready to be welded in. That is where I stopped for the day. I’m pretty sure my Nova is missing some floor supports/seat brackets so I will have to check on those so I can get my Corbeau seat’s installed correctly later on. I think I’m going to go ahead and clean up the floor more, weld up some of the poor previous work that was done, lay new sound deadener and put new front and rear carpet. I might as well while I am at this point.
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Question: I got 4 point harnesses with my seats. The instructions say not to mount the shoulder straps down the back of the seat on the seat bolts but at an angle no less than 45 degrees backward. Where should I mount the straps? I will put a roll cage in the car later down the road but need to figure out something until then. Any suggestions?

[SparkyRnD]

for harnesses without a cage, I went with the Schroth Rallye 4 that bolt to the rear seat belt mounts and are easily removable. That gives you the correct angle and location to keep from compressing your spine in the event of a wreck.

By the way, we make a bolt in aluminum radiator for these Nova's now:
https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?98771-RnD-Fabrication-1968-1974-Nova-Radiators-coming-soon!

[Dmaxed]

SparkyRND, that’s what I think I am going to end up doing. I also saw online there are harness bars in the import world and there was a guy on Steves Nova Site that made his own for his Nova. It mounted to the two rear front seat bolts and came up in a V, then a bar ran back to the rear seat seatbelt bolt. This way the 4 point harness mounted straight back onto that bar instead of an angle to the back seat. Anyways, got some work done on the trans install and floor.
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I got the trans patch panel I made welded into place. There is a ton more room compared to before. It was also probably faster making the piece and welding it in than making small patches and welding the tunnel back together.
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I welded up the holes in the floor where the bucket seats were previously mounted with bolts. I could -only find the tunnel supports and seat brackets for Nova’s and not the 72. Supposedly they work but move the seat a bit. Well they do not work without modification for the Corbeau seat brackets. The seat brackets say 6? To 74 Nova’s. They seem to actually only work on the 72-74 Nova bucket seat brackets because I am having to relocate the bolts on the rear tunnel support to line up. If anyone knows where I can get actual 72-74 brackets I may cut the tack welds on these and swap them out.
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I put the hydraulic throw out bearing in, did all the measurements and supposedly I need 5 spacers. Odd since the directions talk about GM owners sometimes not having enough room so they need to space the bell housing away from the block with washers. Not in my case evidently. I was installing the trans and found out I needed to adjust it on my jack. So I was wiggling it back in forth under the car and almost dropped it off the jack. I panicked and grabbed the output shaft area and my right hand latched onto the hydraulic throw out bearing. Just my luck the dang thing came apart when I did this. Just my luck because the instructions say to not take it apart since it is preloaded with fluid. Now I have to go through the PITA way of bleeding the clutch once I get it all installed.
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I had to take 2 of the bolts for the scattershield and leave them off. One was hitting the oil pan because I have a deep sump and the other was hitting the oil filter. Should still be plenty strong if my clutch comes apart I would think.
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I had clearance issues with the stock booster and the port on my valve cover for a breather. I had a mini booster for my S10 project so I decided to go ahead and swap them for now. This also freed up room for the clutch and hand room to the wiring area at the firewall. The windshield wiper motor is still in the way some for the breather though.
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I got it all mocked up and installed with 2 bolts. Just have to mark for the other 2 bolts and then reinstall it and connect the hoses. For the life of me I could not locate the clutch reservoir in the Wilwood kit. I called up American Powertrain and Bill said he would send me. Awesome guy.
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I have cleaned up the floor with a wire wheel and torn all the wiring out that is getting replaced. I will clean the floor a bit more then seam seal and spray a little bit of primer. Then I can put the new carpet down. I decided to go with the stock style insulation because it came with the carpet for like $30. I plan on putting a cage in later so I will take all the interior back out. When I do that I will spend the time and money on some Dynamat or Thermotech. My Ricks gas tank arrived so that can go in soon as well. Hopefully I can get this back together soon and test it out. I had to make another order for some fuel line parts and forgot to get some wire loom and a plug. I always forget something.

[SRD art]

Very Cool! Lots of new Novas lately, I'm diggin it!

[Dmaxed]

Thanks SRDart. I saw that you have a 74. I will have to keep an eye on it. I got the other two holes drilled for the clutch and got it mounted so I can check that off. The clutch rod was rubbing against the side of the hole and I figured out why it hadn’t before during mock up. I originally did not have a washer between the clutch pedal and heim joint. I took the clutch back out and drilled the slot out a little bit. I then put a slight bend in the clutch rod extension and now it clears just fine and swings smoothly. I attempted to connect the feed line from the HRB to the clutch but it wouldn’t fit. The plastic caps that were on the 90 from the clutch said 1/8 npt on one end and 4 on the other. I’m guessing 4 an. The feed line is a female end that was too small. I checked the instructions and it says 3 an. I guess I will have to give American Powertrain a call tomorrow and see if they supplied me the wrong 90 or if I am supposed to get one myself. I wouldn’t think so considering the trans kit is supposed to be complete but it really isn’t that big of a deal since it should be cheap anyways.
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I moved on to the seat brackets. I used a cut off wheel and cut the 3 spot welds that hold the rear bolts in closest to the trans tunnel. I then set my seat mounts in and marked where the bolts needed to be. I drilled the holes out then welded the bolts back in.
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I decided to move on to the fuel system next so I can get that checked off. I removed the stock fuel lines that were showing some age in spots. Most of the rubber hoses from the tank were rotten and a few actually tore in half when I was taking them off the hardlines. Once I got the fuel tank out of the way I decided to do a quick fix to the exhaust mounts. When the exhaust had been installed the shop just welded a bolt near the seat belt hole. One of the bolts broke in half when I was removing the exhaust at the beginning of my tear down for the trans. I am undecided on what I want to do with the exhaust so I just cut off the bolts and welded grade 8’s in their place. The previous bolts were grade 5. This is just temporary because I will probably end up redoing the exhaust with an x pipe and running it all the way to the back of the car (that will help cut down on the noise inside.)
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I was ready to get the tank mocked up to figure out how I was going to mount my fuel pump, etc and noticed the two smaller bolts for the straps were not anywhere to be found. I had the longer 2 wrapped in with the straps. Guess I will call about them tomorrow. I started to run one of the fuel lines. For now I’m just using some 8 an braided line (I already have a lot so it’s cheap for now). I’m not really a fan of it for the entire system so will upgrade at some point to either ½in hardline or PTFE hose from Pegasus racing. I think the hardline looks much better so I’m leaning toward that. I will probably end up make a tube straightener and take a shot at bending up my own lines. Then just use the PTFE hose for the areas of movement and between the tank, pump and filters.
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I also checked my new seatbelt bolts that came with my 4 point harnesses. The bolts are too small. I checked the stock bolts and they seem to be 1/2in course thread. The new ones look like they are 7/16in fine thread. Guess I will have to do a bit of shopping for those now too.

[SparkyRnD]

nice progress. Been checking out those first few pictures for a while now, keeps egging me on to build a Nova next!

[rchaskin]

Man you have made some serious progress with some killer parts!!!!

I wish the Magnum was available when I did my 6sp swap.

I have only one thing for you to look at. I think your seats are going to be too tall.
Take a look at post 4, 9th pic.
I basically started with the same set up you have with the Corbeau bracket / mounts / slider and my head was against the headliner with a helmet on.

I ended up laying 2 pieces of 1/2" thick x 1" wide x 16" or so long steel bar to the floor pan.
I bolted it through from the bottom, through the outsides of the floor cross members. I'll weld it down one day when all the interior is out.
Then I made a new square slider mount 3/16" x 2" to mount to the flatbar on the floorpan.
I bolted my sliders on this mount, and the seats to the sliders.

This puts the bottom of the sliders about 11/16" off the floorpan.
The driving position is much better now.
It gained me about 2" of head clearance.

Good luck, and get to shifting gears!!!

Randy

[Jon @ Hotchkis]

Wow Charles, the Nova is looking great; I really like the black on white (my favorite combo). Thanks for posting the detailed picture of the trans clearance, I'm keeping them for future reference.

Keep the update coming!

[Moabdude]

Cool project.
I saw this one on Craigslist in May this year when I was visiting the US.
Almost went over to take a look.

Good luck with your project.
I love Nova's!!

[Dmaxed]

nice progress. Been checking out those first few pictures for a while now, keeps egging me on to build a Nova next!
I have been putting in the hours for sure.

Man you have made some serious progress with some killer parts!!!!

I wish the Magnum was available when I did my 6sp swap.

I have only one thing for you to look at. I think your seats are going to be too tall.
Good luck, and get to shifting gears!!!

Randy
I bolted my seat to the bracket and installed it to check. I would prefer my seat to go back further. I don’t have a tilt column and my legs are really tight going under the steering wheel getting in. With my seat leaned back to where I like it to just cruise the top of my head is about 3in from the roof. If I lean it more straight like it would be for racing I maybe have 1in without a helmet. So I guess I will have to make my own bracket too. I think what I will do is use the mounts I welded in still. I will use some 2in x 1/4in flat bar I have and make a shape similar to a square with holes drilled for the mounting bolts. Then drill holes for the sliders. This would drop the seat about 2in or so because it essentially would get rid of the small “L” shaped parts on the Corbeau brackets. I will take pictures when I do it. My concern right now is getting the car going first though.

Wow Charles, the Nova is looking great; I really like the black on white (my favorite combo). Thanks for posting the detailed picture of the trans clearance, I'm keeping them for future reference.

Keep the update coming!
Thanks. I’m not sure what color it will be for sure when I finally redo the body but the black and white is growing on me.

Cool project.
I saw this one on Craigslist in May this year when I was visiting the US.
Almost went over to take a look.

Good luck with your project.
I love Nova's!!
I found it on there about 2 weeks before I moved to California. Luckily it didn’t sell and the guy reposted it right about the day I got out here.
So I had been waiting on a few fittings for my fuel system (most arrived today) and I need a new set of crimpers so I decided to work on the floor and putting the motor together. Mainly just getting the engine ready to start and finishing small things. I decided to swap valve covers to opposite sides so my breathers would clear the windshield wiper motor (why didn’t someone call me an idiot earlier and suggest this?!) I got the breathers put on, ran the hose for the brake booster, ran the vacuum from the distributor to carb, tightened the header bolts, put the plug wires back on, put on the fan and belts. I went ahead and put the same radiator in because I have been having trouble finding the wider radiator hold down. The radiator I want to put in is the wider one that I think would have normally come with big blocks. I have found some of the radiator hold downs but they have all been chrome. On the floor I put new seam sealer around the floor and cleaned it up some with scotch brite pads. Then I sprayed a little bit of primer to cover up the areas where the wire wheel took it down to bare metal. I think I have changed my mind on the floor insulation and will go ahead and order some Thermotech or Dynamat now.

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[rchaskin]

Getting closer...... :6gears:

[Dmaxed]

Well I got married over last weekend and had been pretty busy with that so I haven’t gotten as much done as I would have liked. I also go on my honeymoon this week and will be gone for a bit so progress will be nonexistent after tomorrow probably.

I got my Dynamat installed. I think it turned out okay considering that was my first time using it. I put a couple layers down on trans and toe board area. I started with a kit of 9 pieces and still have 3 or 4 left. I will use them later for the firewall area where the heater is covering probably and behind the rear seat. Just figured I would do that when I put in an under dash ac/heater unit and fill in the panel behind the seat.

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Ran all the wires for the fuel sender and fuel pump. Installed the tank and made a simple mount for my fuel pump. I will probably make a new one and relocate the pump and filters when I change to solid fuel lines so I wasn’t too concerned about the appearance of the mount. I also ran a temporary fuel line to a breather with a rollover valve for a vent. This may get taken off before the car even gets started because I ordered one of the II Much Fabrication fuel vents but it’s back ordered. I wasn’t sure if I should use the stock spacer for the strap so left it off for now. I got some stainless screws exactly like the stock ones for the other end of the strap but couldn’t for the life of me get them to thread through the stainless strap. So… I just used a couple of these allen head bolts with nyloc nuts. It took a few minutes to get the nuts to thread on the bolt because of the small hole to get to them but it worked out.

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I got my driveshaft from American Powertrain. It looked like it was boxed up for shipping before the paint was dry because some was rubbed off and it was stuck to the cardboard. Not that big of a deal to me so I got it put in. Seemed to fit like a glove.

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Quick pic of the wiring tools I’m using. I got these blue handled crimpers from Snap On. They are blue point. I was wanting to buy USA made but these had really good comments and reviews on several sites so I decided to give them a try. I use them for open barrel connectors and they work pretty awesome. The red handled simple crimpers are blue point as well but made in the USA. I use them for all of the normal connectors and they work very nicely because of the long handles and design. The wire strippers are from Lowes and are my favorite design I’ve used so far. Cutters are cutters, I’ve had mine for years and I have no idea what brand, Stanley maybe.

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Got the front headlights, park lights and turn signals all wired together. I haven’t put the powerbraid on them yet because I want to make sure it all works okay first and I am debating on ordering all new sockets for all the lights so they may just get cut back off. They painless kit came with the headlight plugs. I read somewhere that American Autowire came with all the plugs including inside just like factory. Sometimes I wish I went with them but oh well. I am going to order a neutral safety switch and probably the sockets from them though.

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I cut the tips off the wiper control wires from Painless (left) and put new pins on the ends so I could use the factory style plastic plug (right) because it also had the pin for the ground wire.

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I took a similar approach with the headlight switch because the painless plug didn’t have the ground wire pin either. Painless connector (top in second photo) and stock style connector (bottom.)

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Took the wires out of the dimmer plug because the painless one (left) didn’t have the little clips on the sides. I opted for the factory style so it should stay connected better.

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I decided to use the 4 wire plug from between the tail lights as a plug for my cheapo tach (came with the car.) I didn’t see a point in there being a plug between the tail lights anyways. Also ran some wires off the instrument panel wiring for the oil, voltage and water temp gauges so I can just mount them in the cheapo 3 gauge pod (again, came in the car and I currently don’t have a console.)

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Finally found this little guy on the factory wiring diagram so now I can get rid of it. Voltage regulator.

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I posted a thread in the wiring forum about this wire. I was/am trying to figure out what it is. It isn’t labeled at all and it’s not listed in the painless instructions. I traced it on the inside of the firewall and it splits to 2 tan wires. 1 goes to the e-brake pedal switch and the other runs into the harness along with the brake light wires and brake pedal switch. All I can think of is that it would be connected to transmission running down the firewall and under the floor. I don’t think I need it because I rerouted my third brake light wire (no third brake light on the Nova) under the dash and plan on running it along the trans tunnel and out the shifter hole to the trans for the reverse lockout switch. Am I wrong?

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[csouth]

You had a very good foundation to start with. Progress looks good. I'm watching...

[Dmaxed]

Add Content
http://youtu.be/Y7gqPAcZj9g

[Dmaxed]

Double post.

[Dmaxed]

I finally got most of the wiring connections made. I'm waiting on new park, brake and side marker plugs to show up in the mail. I had a hell of a time trying to figure out why the motor wouldn't turn over at first. After tracing all the wires several times and checking several areas with my test light I noticed the purple starter wire was not hot when the key was turned at the plug on the column. I pulled the plug off and found out it was because the male portion on the column got bent upward and didn't go in the female portion of the plug so there was no connection. I was unable to see this the whole time because the metal portion above the column was hiding it. Got that sorted out and the motor fired right up. This video was actually about the third time I started it. I thought I had another issue because I couldn't get the motor to idle the second time then it died and wouldn't start. Then it hit me that I couldn't hear the fuel pump anymore. Turned out I had bumped the switch and turned it off. It now fires right up and will idle. Unfortunately I have to sort out some issues. When the car was tilted backward there was fuel leaking a small amount out of the glass sight on the passenger side rear bowl of the carb. It doesn't seem to be doing it now but I will see about replacing the seal just in case. I couldn't see any leaks anywhere else. For some reason after I switched to the mini booster my brakes aren't working. The pedal has feedback when the car is off but once started it goes to the floor with ease. Should I try bleeding the brakes? I didn't think any air would have gotten in the lines though just from switching boosters. There is also an issue with the clutch and hrb. It is farely stiff but doesn't seem to be pushing the pressure plate enough. I'm afraid to push it too far because I don't want the hrb to come apart. The pedal moves about 4-5 inches right now. Could there still be air in the system and the pedal still be stiff? Third problem is my ground clearance. My motor has a deep sump pan. With the car at the current lowered height the pan is only maybe 3 inches off the ground at most.

[DYNODANNY]

Cool build man, I need to save up some money to do the 6 speed swap. Looking good .

[DYNODANNY]

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I had the same issue with my oil pan from Milodon 8 quart pan , I ran with their stock looking pan 6 quart with a windage tray, it does clear my super comp headers.

[Dmaxed]

Thanks Danny. The bottom of the bell housing is only maybe an inch higher than the bottom of the pan so switching pans won't really change much.

Well I think I have the solutions to a couple of my issues. I took the master cylinder off and noticed the plunger on my new dual booster is only about 1/4 inch or so and the stock one is about 1 1/2 inches. So when I would push the pedal I wasn't even engaging the brakes. My master cylinder is a deep pocket instead of shallow so I have to use a bullet/spacer/slug piece to make up the gap. I couldn't find one from any of the local parts stores but Right Stuff (who makes my booster) said they would send me one. So that should be cured once the piece arrives in the mail.

called American Powertrain. My clutch freely travels for roughly an inch then it is tough but my clutch is not fully engaging. My calculations came out to 5.?? For my hrb so I used 5 spacers. Their tech told me I should have used 6 and that is probably why I have the free travel because I'm just pushing air. So now I will have to raise the car back up and take the trans back out to install another spacer (sucks ass.). Hopefully that fixes the clutch issue. I will go ahead and weld my collectors on and get the exhaust hooked up while I'm at it.

[Dmaxed]

I've busted my butt the past week on the Nova and actually got a ton of progress done. I got the spacer for my brake booster so that is sorted out. I completed all the wiring except the done light connection, trunk light and hooking the speaker wires to the rear speakers. The rest of the wiring is connected, covered in loom and tucked away. I'm having some issues with the dash lights but could be the circuit board thing on the back either needs cleaned or replaced. The all new led lights are pretty nice looking and work great. The new carpet is trimmed and put in. I need to take a heat gun to it to get it to fit a bit better but it looks ok. I spent the last couple days bleeding the clutch since I accidentally took the hrb apart. That has been a pita. Today after vacuum bleeding the clutch I was able to get the trans in 1st but no other gears so I knew I was getting close. I was pretty sure I had all the air out so I adjusted the clutch rod the last 1/8" or so that I could by running the stop nuts back. This proved to be the final clutch issue cause the trans goes right into all gears now. The motor was having some issues running smoothly and turned out to be the spark plugs. Put new plugs in and then I finally drove the car around the neighborhood. I was going to take it on a trip to the gas station and get my speeds up but my brakes aren't quite right. My pedal is a bit spongy and the brakes won't lock all the way up. I plan on bleeding the brakes the next couple days. I also read the instructions for the Wilwood proportioning valve and will tune that a bit. It was set with it locked out for the most bias to the rear brakes. Just when I was parking the car back in the garage it died on me so I started thinking fuel. I checked my gauge on the fuel rail and it was only at about 1psi so I will look more into that tomorrow as well. The normal psi was about 5 preset and it ran great. So I have several issues to fix and tweak but atleast the car is moving under it's own power again and with a 6 speed now.
Few pics of the wiring and putting the car back together. The pic of the seats was added for comic relief. I actually thought the rear seat was black but is in fact a white seat painted black.

[Dmaxed]

Here's a video of the car running with the exhaust on now. I walk around to show the led lights and the cleaner engine bay now that the wiring is completed.
http://youtu.be/2OPdbfJJ1rk

[rchaskin]

The LED taillights are awesome.........:drool:

[Dmaxed]

Thanks, I def liked how they turned out.

Well it seems I keep having issue after issue with this thing before I can really get it road worthy. First I was worried about the car overheating because my temp gauge wasn't working correctly. It was reading all the way to the left at 100. It is a Autometer short sweep gauge. I was reading some tech on their site about how the gauge and the sender worked and then it hit me. The sender works by resistance which changes as the engine gets hotter. I had the temp wire spliced into two. One end went to the gauge and the other I had going to the pin in the plug at the back of the stock gauge cluster in the dash. Their isn't a stock temp gauge in the Nova dash but there is the temp warning light. By plugging it in it was evidently "stealing" the juice because I unplugged it and capped the pin off and now the temp gauge works fine. This brought up my next issue. I had originally bought a thermostat to put in but found out I can't with the Brodix intake. There is a piece of intake that splits where the thermostat would normally go so it won't fit. After some research I have decided I DO need to run a thermostat so the engine heats up faster and then stays at a smaller temperature range making it run more efficient. In order to run one I have to have a spacer on top of the intake. I found a 1" spacer on Summit so I will get that on there soon. I will take pics when I do so people can understand more what I'm talking about. Of course I have more issues.

My brakes haven't been worth a crap. They weren't the greatest when I bought the car either. This is weird because I was told they were C4 brakes. They are drilled and slotted rotors with decent pads all the way around. My pedal is not the stiffest when press it until it's about 2/3rds of the way down. Then it gets real stiff and the brakes work but not that great. It won't even lock up the wheels. The master cylinder appears to be a stock one from a front disc/rear drum Nova. The booster is now a 7" dual diaphragm. I had it laying around from the S10 so I used it because the stock 11" booster would not clear the master cylinder for the hydraulic clutch. I thought maybe there was air in the lines so I bled the brakes multiple times and played with the Wilwood proportioning valve. Brakes are not my things so I finally got irritated and stumped after a couple days and took it to a local brake shop. They confirmed that I was in fact bleeding the brakes correctly and that there was no air in the lines. Luckily they didn't charge me since they really didn't fix anything after the bled the brakes again. They thought maybe the master cylinder needed replaced or there wasn't the correct amount of vacuum. So I have decided to ask around on here and will call some brake manufacturers and see what their opinion is. I don't have a problem buying a decent master cylinder or even not running a power brakes if someone can convince me that is the way to go. I guess I need a little direction. I will copy and paste this in the brake section too to see if I get any help. Anyways, driving the car back from the shop led me to my next issue.

I was driving down the small road to my house which is paved but still not the flattest road and I felt the car bottom out. Well there goes my oil pan I start thinking. This happened literally about 100 yards from my garage. My oil pan is a deep sump stock style pan and it hangs only about 1.25" below the scatter shield/bell housing but it is also only about 3.5-4" off the ground. It was closer to the ground but before I took the car out I cranked up the front QA1 coil overs most of the way to prevent the thing from dragging. I got the car in the garage and got out to see if there was any damage from the impact. There was a nice trail of oil down the drive and a growing puddle under the car. I quickly got a drain pan under the leak and began the cleanup but looks like I will have to find a new oil pan. I have been looking at some baffled road race pans that have wide sumps that can still hold 7 quarts but aren't as deep as mine. If I can find one a little about my bell housing lip then I would think I would be okay. Any suggestions?

[Dmaxed]

My oil disaster and brake setup

[Dmaxed]

Well I got my oil pan delivered today so I was able to get it put on. The oil pan is a road race 7 quart pan from Canton. It was kind of pricey but I actually spent about $75 less getting it from Summit rather than directly from the manufacturer. I will post the narratives of the pictures in this post and the pictures in the next post since I will have to post them from my phone.
1. Shows the original pan and how far down the sump was.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2029_zps39f9918b-1.jpg

2. Old pan off, about to take off the deep sump oil pickup.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2030_zps160b4c99-1.jpg

3. Comparison of the insides of the old and new oil pans.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2033_zpsd681ca4c-1.jpg

4. Side view shows how much shorter the new pan is.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2034_zps8d2228dd-1.jpg

5. New oil pickup that goes with the oil pan. This is for a M55HV pump with a 7.5" deep pan.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2035_zps7024cc24-1.jpg

6. Side by side of oil pickups.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2036_zps46b969a1-1.jpg

7. I was having a very hard time getting the pan on along with the gasket by myself. I ended putting a longer 2.5" bolt in the corner holes of the pan. These were easier to handle and line up which allowed me to push the pan straight up sliding up the bolts and keeping the gasket aligned while I got the rest of the bolts started.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2040_zps572d8ba5-1.jpg

8. Front view after the pan was installed. You can barely see the bottom hanging just below the crossmember. The scatter shield and bell housing are now below the pan.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2041_zps2d7083fb-1.jpg

9. Picture of the sump and steering clearance.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2042_zpsf0b1b446-1.jpg

10. Oil filter clearance.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2043_zps1b2c60c7-1.jpg

11. Starter clearance.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2044_zps4f0194b0-1.jpg

12. This is my current problem now with the new pan. I checked the steering. The inner tie rod is about 1/16" from the pan here and the steering is not at full lock and not rubbing.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2045_zpsc49b37ec-1.jpg

13. The amount of clearance between the inner fender and tire just before the tie rod makes contact with the pan. It is probably less when the weight of the car is on the suspension instead of the jack stands.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/IMG_2046_zps5ae8004e-1.jpg


Now I have to figure out what to do with the steering. I prefer to be able to turn as sharp as possible so I'm looking at aftermarket steering component upgrades or modifying the center link. I will probably fab some sort of steering stop for now. Anybody have any suggestions on parts or fixes?

[Dmaxed]

Fixing pictures.

[rchaskin]

I hate to even type this........but I think I would leave all the steering linkages, and mod the pan.
I would think you need at least 1/4" to 3/8" aound the steering components if you are planning on running it hard.

I had a circle track pan on my motor, and had the same issues, except mine were worse.
My tie rods hit the pan way sooner than yours do.

I ended up getting a 6qt Summit pan.
Mine is about 1" lower than factory, and is a little fatter all the way around the back sump.

Good luck.

[johnny68]

cool car
john

[boneheadzz]

I feel that maybe you should give the oil pan a few 'love taps' with a ball peen hammer. I hate the idea of 'modifying' new parts in such a way but to me it makes sense to do so in this instance. You already have the pan on and it seems you like this pan. I'm using a moroso #20190 street/strip pan on a small block Chevy in my 79 TA. I also recently installed a canton windage tray in the TA and it seemed well made. Haven't run the car as of yet... Priorities... wife kids work. Unfortunately TA comes last. Good luck!
Mike

[Dmaxed]

Bonehead I thought about that. It wouldn't have taken much to do that since there wasn't much further to turn. I really hated the idea of beating on a brand new pan especially a road race pan as expensive as that one. I called Canton and they verified it should fit on my car. The guy called me back today after a day of thinking it over and said I should send it back. He said even though it should fit he couldn't recall anybody buying one for a Nova since he's worked there. I would think Camaro owners would have the same problem with it though. I decided to try another of their pans that is a 5 quart instead of 6. It is the same dimensions except the sump is only 8.75" long instead of 10.5". Canton and Summit were both understanding since the pan is advertised to fit. Summit went ahead and put the order in for the other pan which should get here Tuesday and put in the system for the return shipping for UPS. So I yanked the pan back off and put it in the box to go back. The new pan is 15-244 and the one that didn't fit was 15-250. 15-244 is a bit cheaper so I will get a bit of a refund. I could have looked for other brands but i did really like the quality of this pan so I stayed with Canton. Getting the pans from Summit though saved me about $80.

[boneheadzz]

I looked at both pans on summit's site and yeah the one you're getting looks like it has more clearance at the sump where you need it. I also realized after I posted that both cars I had my pan on were second gen F body(79 TA) and third gen X body(78 Nova) which are front steer vs. the rear steer that your car has. Probably why I had no problems!

By the way, love the car man. Looks great. Someday I'll get another one.
Later
Mike

[FRENCHBLUE72]

Good looking car man keep up the good work... My only concern with the pan is can the starter still come out the rear bolt looks to be a bear to get to?

[Dmaxed]

Thanks Bonehead.


Good looking car man keep up the good work... My only concern with the pan is can the starter still come out the rear bolt looks to be a bear to get to?

Frenchblue. There is actually quite a bit of room around the starter. The starter is a mini off a later model Chevy. It works very well and is way easier than lifting those heavy stock ones into place. I can easily get a box wrench or ratcheting wrench on the bolts. The bolts can’t come all the way down but once they clear the block it looks like I will have room for it to come out.

I got an email from Summit and it looks like they are sending me my new pan next day air so that should be here pretty quick. I got my spacer for my water neck on Friday so I threw it on real quick. The spacer is 1” and has the groove cut for a thermostat. This should make my motor run a lot smoother now since it can warm up faster and stay in a constant temp range. You can see in the second pic why I couldn’t run a thermostat without it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/11/IMG_2051_zps7d09a4d0-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/11/IMG_2052_zpsbcf1838a-1.jpg

[Dmaxed]

So I started my oil pan hunt with Canton 15-250. The oil pan was advertised to fit my Nova but the inner tie rod’s hit the pan before full lock. Canton said they would adjust their site/books to remove Nova’s since the oil pan does not actually fit. Next I tried 15-244. It is only a 6 quart system instead of 7 and the front of the pan is more square. That pan hit my crossmember before I could line up the motor mounts. So I checked Milodon who had a 7 quart pan that was a little over 8 inches deep (compared to 7.5 from Canton). The pan was advertised to fit and had a front depth of 3.75 on Summit and on Milodon’s website. Milodon actually started using a different pan to start their fabrication of the sump that is more square and deeper (like Canton’s 15-244) for a bigger stroke clearance. So the front hit the crossmember and the sump actually did not clear the steering similar to Canton’s 15-250. So I ordered a stock looking pan that was just 5 quarts instead of 6 from Summit. Summit was actually out of date on this product as well because the front of the pan was more square like the rest. Then I got to looking at my poly mounts and compared them to the solid mounts that were on the 350 I took out of the car. The poly mounts were actually about ¾ shorter than the solid mounts. So I swapped mounts then checked the cross member clearance with the Summit pan and it cleared! So I got all those pans sent back and reordered Canton’s 15-244. The pan cleared with the solid mounts by about .25”. So now I have a Canton road race 6 quart system with crank scraper, windage tray and trap doors and I have better ground clearance. The bottom of the pan is even with the cross member just like 15-250 was.

Next I turned my attention back to the brakes. I checked my vacuum and I was only pulling 7-11 with my cam. So after talking with Tobin I decided to go to manual brakes for now and ordered the Wilwood 7/8 tandem mc. I also got the prop valve bracket and their brake lines that go with it. I got it all together and attempted the bleeding process. After a long ordeal I’m pretty sure I have all the air out of the mc because I had my wife push the pedal while I tried to hold my finger over the ports and brake fluid shot out with force. So I moved on to bleeding. Fluid squirts pretty good out of the fronts but there has to be air somewhere or something with my rear calipers. The fluid doesn’t shoot out really on the rears, it kind of flows more when cracking the bleeder under pressure from pumping the pedal. The pedal is also kind of spongy still so I’m sure there is air somewhere. I tested the brakes on the small road I live on and they will stop the car ok but won’t lock up the wheels at all.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/11/IMG_2073_zpsd4d8a420-1.jpg

The brake lines aren’t great to look at but they should work for now. I am getting some tools to make my own brake/fuel lines for Christmas from the wife so I will give my go at making them all nice and neat before too long.

[sebtarta]

Car looks great and thank you for posting all the details.


Tobin told me the same thing about the MC, go manual. I have a 72 Nova which I am trying to finish. I will be putting a LS swap, not sure if auto or T56 yet.

Do you happen to have the part #s for the prop valve, lines and bracket?

[dairdvl]

charles
can you tell me the wheel and tire size you have in the original pics? this is the exact stance i am lookin for.
i like those tsw wheels. what do you think of them?
thanks

[hookemdevils22]

Very nice build.

Are your wheels the TSW Valencias? I very nearly bought those, but pulled the trigger on a set of Tremblants (http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m235/hookemdevils22/Nova%20Pics/6f1578fe-d6da-44ac-a4f0-09887dffa73b_zps6e2672df.jpg) instead. I think it had something to do with offset, but I can't remember. Those look great though.

I ended up fabbing my own brackets for my Corbeaus. The Corbeau brackets put the seats up way too high for me.

[Josh@Ridetech]

Sweet build man!

[dairdvl]

hookem
what size wheels and tires did you go with. this is a hard decision to make for me. prob going to go with tsw Valencia

[hookemdevils22]

I mini-tubbed mine and have coil-overs in the back, so the rear isn't going to help you much. Fronts are 18x8" with 245/40-18 with 5.07" BS (that's with a 1" adapter). Rears are 18x11" (widened from 9.5" by Weldcraft Wheels) with 305/35-18 and 7.82" BS (using 1/2" spacers). That said, I calculated the forward space on the rears and compared that to the Centerlines I had on the car, which were just a tad too far outboard and rubbed the inner fender with 255/60-15s. The rears would fit perfectly in a stock car with the 1/2" spacer, though the shocks would likely need to be moved inboard of the springs.

I bought them in the Ford bolt pattern (5x114) and drilled my axles in the rear, with adapters in the front. The fronts do rub a tad at full lock.

[Dmaxed]

Sebtarta, the prop valve was on the car when I bought it but you can get the same prop valve with the bracket and tubes as a combo, part 260-13190. Someday mine will prolly get an ls but I have plenty of other projects right now. You should def go with the t56. These cars are so much more fun with a stick.

Dairdvl and hookem, the wheels are TSW Valencia's 18x10 all around. The tires are Federal super steel 595, fronts 235/40 and rear 255/35. I would prefer there wasa bit more sidewall but these came on the car. I will switch tires at some point. I can really speak for their handling yet either. My front has been lowered some with QA1 coilovers. I recently raised the front up about 1.5" from what it was in the first few pics so I have a little better ground clearance for my crossmember, headers and pan. My front tires rub before full lock. I have spacers front and rear about 3/8" thick. I have not measured the back spacing on the wheels.

I plan on making my own seat brackets at some point too. They will do for now while I work out some bugs but I'm sure my head will be close or hit with a helmet.

Thanks Josh. Maybe this car will be worthy of ridetech parts and the site someday.

I did get the tools to make my brake and fuel lines so I plan to order up some tube soon and give that a go.

I would have responded sooner but the holidays have been hectic and I'm on the road now headed back to Cali so work should resume hopefully by the weekend.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

More pics and build stuff, click here. (https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/123771-ExtReme-70-Nova-by-Speedtech)