Driveline angle of LS installed in a 69 Camaro

[69importkilla]

Curious, the transmission and engine are pointing down at 5 degrees which is too much. This is with Edelbrock plates and an ATS crossmember. Anyone else experience this? To get this angle correct i would have to either move the engine down or the transmission up. The later would require cutting the tranny tunnel which I am not fond of.

Any suggestions?

[GeoffP]

I don't know if it will help but I used the Swaptech plates and Energy Suspension motor mounts and turned them upside down to get the engine lower in the chassis. I'm not overly familiar with Edelbrock's plates but I suspect you could turn them over (swap sides) to get the same result fairly easily assuming the oil pan has clearance. I ended up with about 3/8" gap between the frame and the oil pan (I'm running Holley's swap pan).

[garys 68]

It's not necessarily an issue. What's your pinion angle and driveshaft angle?

[67Soto]

I am fighting the same gremlin with the same plates/crossmember. I will try to shim the tailshaft of the trans tomorrow to get close to 3 degrees but it is a tight fit in there and I doubt it will have room. I have room to drop the front of the engine a little bit but not sure if my plates will allow this. Is it necessary that I am at 3 degrees for a 67 camaro LS1/T56 Hotchkis 3" drop leafs/drop coils up front? Just when I thought I was all good to go, the hotrod aspect of this build kicks in ;-) Any thoughts guys????

[Toddoky]

I am fighting the same gremlin with the same plates/crossmember. I will try to shim the tailshaft of the trans tomorrow to get close to 3 degrees but it is a tight fit in there and I doubt it will have room. I have room to drop the front of the engine a little bit but not sure if my plates will allow this. Is it necessary that I am at 3 degrees for a 67 camaro LS1/T56 Hotchkis 3" drop leafs/drop coils up front? Just when I thought I was all good to go, the hotrod aspect of this build kicks in ;-) Any thoughts guys????

You can get the engine and transmission you are using into your car at a 3 degree inclination angle and completely under the 1st-gen Camaro without cutting by using the new Hooker engine mounting brackets and T56 crossmember. The lower you put your cart in the rear the more severe your U-joint angles will become, so if you start with a large inclination angle (like the OP's 5 degrees) you will end up with some installed geometry that is not conducive to achieve optimized working U-joint angles. As a side benefit, the installed position provided by the Hooker mounts keeps the bottom of the T56 tucked up into the chassis more so than I've set with any other mount/crossmember combination. I can post photos for anyone interested.

Todd

[67Soto]

You can get the engine and transmission you are using into your car at a 3 degree inclination angle and completely under the 1st-gen Camaro without cutting by using the new Hooker engine mounting brackets and T56 crossmember. The lower you put your cart in the rear the more severe your U-joint angles will become, so if you start with a large inclination angle (like the OP's 5 degrees) you will end up with some installed geometry that is not conducive to achieve optimized working U-joint angles. As a side benefit, the installed position provided by the Hooker mounts keeps the bottom of the T56 tucked up into the chassis more so than I've set with any other mount/crossmember combination. I can post photos for anyone interested.

Todd

Pics please. Do those new plates place the engine far forward enough to clear the f-body low mount alternator?

[69importkilla]

Thanks for bringing this up again. I am curious about the Hooker mounts. I was looking at the new mounts offered by Chris Allison. They lower the motor, helping the angle.

+1 for pics!

[67Soto]

Another option would be shorter frame stands, I believe 67 Z-28 stands are shorter. I might look into that as well. It would be great to get some pics of the new holley set up. I was just looking at their new oil pan 302-2 yesterday so it is cool that Todd replied to this thread as well.

[Toddoky]

Another option would be shorter frame stands, I believe 67 Z-28 stands are shorter. I might look into that as well. It would be great to get some pics of the new holley set up. I was just looking at their new oil pan 302-2 yesterday so it is cool that Todd replied to this thread as well.

Here's an LS engine sitting on a pre-production set of the mounts that will give you the general idea. If you look closely you can see the adapter plates sandwiched between the subframe and the clamshells and the the new Holley oil pan hugging tight to the crossmember. The adapter plates bolt to your subframe in place of the frame stands with countersunk head bolts and then the clamshells attach to them...you only have to drill one hole per side through the subrframe if you want four-bolt attachement (GM normally used only 3 bolts to attach them). The middle photo is the Hooker T56 crossmember that is supporting a TH400 as we are working on a spacer kit that will allow installing it or 2004R on the same crossmember. Finally, the bottom photo shows the Hooker 4L60-4L75 crossmember, which can also be used to install a Powerglide, TH350 or a 700R4 with another adapter kit we are working on currently. 873778737887379

[67Soto]

Todd, thank you for the pics, that system looks like a great addition to the market! I have a question regarding your pan, do you know why there is no internal baffle in the sump similar to the stock GM Fbody pan? Also, why not add the sensor for the oil level like stock? Just a couple questions I have always pondered while shopping for pans:-) Finally, I am assuming this kit will not work work Fbody accessories? I researched a little more and it looks like I would have to purchase the Holley alternator bracket, alternator, and power steering pump to make this work as well. I highly commend you for your attention to detail especially as it relates to ground clearance for the headers/oil pan, oil pan to steering linkage clearance, and most importantly your consideration of driveline angle on our cars, great job!!!!

[Toddoky]

Todd, thank you for the pics, that system looks like a great addition to the market! I have a question regarding your pan, do you know why there is no internal baffle in the sump similar to the stock GM Fbody pan? Also, why not add the sensor for the oil level like stock? Just a couple questions I have always pondered while shopping for pans:-) Finally, I am assuming this kit will not work work Fbody accessories? I researched a little more and it looks like I would have to purchase the Holley alternator bracket, alternator, and power steering pump to make this work as well. I highly commend you for your attention to detail especially as it relates to ground clearance for the headers/oil pan, oil pan to steering linkage clearance, and most importantly your consideration of driveline angle on our cars, great job!!!!

Thanks for your feedback, the answers to your questions are:
1.)A basic street type baffle comes with the new Holley oil pan and optional drag race and road race baffles are coming
2.)The oil level sensor is usually deleted by most swappers so adding the machining operation to add it to the pan would add non value-added cost to the pan and make it more expensive to you to purchase. The sensor would also not be compatible with the coming race baffles.
3.) You can run the F-body accessory drive set-up, excluding the A/C compressor, by performing a minor notching operation to the subframe. If you are determined to run the low-mount F-body A/C compressor, you would have to notch the crossmember and
fabricate a custom passenger side mount that mounts further back on the subframe (I know, easy for some of us, not so much for
others). Moving the engine forward enough to directly run the low-mount alternator was not worth the associated weight
transfer penalty in our opinion and an affordable high-mount relocation bracket is available from Holley.

Thanks again for your input and noticing the attention to detail that we poured into this system of matching components, your acheivable ground clearance and driveline geometry will not be close to this with any other combination of parts I can assure you.

[69L48Z27]

Todd,

It looks like the headers are tucked way up in the subframe. How far below, if at all, do the headers hang below the subframe? Any pics? Also, what exhaust are you using from the header back?

Thank you!

[Toddoky]

Todd,

It looks like the headers are tucked way up in the subframe. How far below, if at all, do the headers hang below the subframe? Any pics? Also, what exhaust are you using from the header back?

Thank you!

This is the side view of the same car and Hooker components you saw above...keep in mind these are 1-7/8" headers with 3" collectors and a 3" exhaust system, which is also new from Hooker(the answer to your last question)for this application and 2nd-gen Camaros also. The Hooker transmission crossmembers are the key components that make all this ground clearance possible, without them we would have the same ground clearance as everyone else. As you can imagine, the 2.5" Hooker exhaust system runs just about level with the bottom of the subframe as it shares the same centerline path as the 3" system.

[69importkilla]

Todd,

Awesome thanks for taking the time to post the pictures. Looking good!

To add another couple of questions, will the mounts work with the GM F-body pan, how about some of the already developed aftermarket headers, and where does it position the engine ( stock, forward, back )? If you already answered these I apologize in advance....

[Toddoky]

87393The mounts are compatible with the new Hooker 302-1 oil pan, a notched 4th-gen F-body pan, various aftermarket steel pans and most likely also the Mast pan. As far as being compatible with other brand headers, I couldn't say as no attempt was made to validate such fitments. However, since all other brands of headers are designed to install using the stock frame stands and swap plates they should be expected to hang lower than intended when installed with the Hooker mounts since the engine height is lower with them then the discrete height achieved with the frame stand installation scenario. This image shows the fore/aft positioning provided by the Hooker mounts...as you can see it a very neutral position that is compatible with using the stock SB heater core or stock A/C evaporator case and eliminates the normal interference of the 4L60e transmission servo cover with the tunnel sheet metal on the passenger side.

Running the Hooker engine mount, header and crossmember combination will allow you to bolt in a Powerglide, TH350, TH400, 2004R, 700R4 or T56 manual into a 1st-gen behind an LS at 3 degrees inclination angle without a single rotation of a grinding wheel or blow of a hammer. You can also install a T56 Magnum on the same crossmember as the T56, but it requires slicing of the tunnel sheet metal to create the needed extra room.

You can also install all of the above listed Hooker components and GM automatics with the same results into a 3rd-gen Nova; the T56 or T56 Magnum will require slicing the tunnel open due to the lower tunnel height of the X-body cars.

[Birdbrain]

Does anyone have the part numbers for these engine mounts, headers and crossmembers?

[dhutton]

Does anyone have the part numbers for these engine mounts, headers and crossmembers?

Post number 10:

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/110967-any-use-these-engine-mounts?p=1098213&highlight=#post1098213

Don

[Carbo]

Good thread. Subscribed.