View Full Version : Should I raise it or keep it as is?....UPDATE...Raised It
Okay, i'm starting a poll to see what you guys think, see the thread here to see the pics of the car,
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum_main.htm
so should i raise it up an 1" or keep it as is? with the headers a-scrapin?
Ralph LoGrasso
08-23-2005, 09:24 PM
Keep it as is, it looks awesome. We did some 4x4ing during the CE cruise (:lmao:, well not really, but the road was pretty rough) and pretty much everyone was scraping their headers and exhaust. In the end, we had one slightly damaged front spoiler, but everything was fine. Just be really careful driving around on crappy roads and steep driveways.
MrQuick
08-23-2005, 09:28 PM
hey i dont see the "Who give a crap choice" ? LOL
jk Do a DSE coil over kit so we don't have to see the "my cars too high" thread.
vince, watch it forces more powerful than us are watchign lol! :)
jeffandre
08-23-2005, 10:33 PM
Leave it low, setup the exhaust properly and drive! As long as the tires do not rub everything else should be modified for clearance.
TonyL
08-23-2005, 10:41 PM
Im thinking modifying the exaust and keeping the height the same. There are guys out there that could custom make an "oval" tube setup for ya.
ProdigyCustoms
08-24-2005, 02:59 AM
Now everyone will understand why we build around the exhaust. Yody, one speed bump and you are calling a wrecker like it is. I have been there, done that. Got one hung on a speed bump at a cruise and tried to lift it off, only to bend the **** out of a fender. it was ugly, and we were still stuck! It was really embarassing!
DJ Mabe
08-24-2005, 05:15 AM
Put the shorter headers on it and let it eat. The car looks good low, leave it.
Derrick
F70t/a
08-24-2005, 07:07 AM
It looks sweet like that. The lower the better
Steve Chryssos
08-24-2005, 07:11 AM
First of all you should never drive with your cell phone hanging off the underside of your car. Heat from the exhaust will probably melt it and it's extremely difficult to answer a call.
2.25" to 2.5" ground clearance is not nearly enough for a performance car. Looks like your crossmember is too low as well. Forget the speed bump and driveway crawl. What really counts is ground clearance when you are haulin ass down your favorite curvy road at 70mph. If you hit a nice dip in the road, you will essentially negate the grip provided by your tires. Your car becomes a sleigh. Scraping at 10mph is annoying. Scraping and bouncing at 70mph is deadly.
Raising the car is easy. Raising the car and maintaining its cool look is expensive:
-Custom Exhaust (Shorty headers and smaller collectors. It's okay to compromise 10 HP peak in the name of overall performance and safety.
-Custom Springs (taller springs and/or increased rate)
-Taller sidewall tires (What are your exact tire specs? Taller tires work in conjunction with increased mechanical ride height to fill the wheelwells and raise the car slightly)
You will probably need a combination of the above. I'll even bet that at your current ride height, you have taken your front suspension geometry beyond its sweet spot.
SO RAISE IT! And take lots of pictures throughout the process because many/most pro-touring enthusiasts are in the same boat. Maybe one of the magazine's will publish your efforts.
/Steevo
Steve1968LS2
08-24-2005, 07:27 AM
Three words.. BEND TO FIT
The oval tube exhaust is a great idea.. That is what I am running and it saves an inch or two on clearance..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
I am going to run it with the new LS2 deal but I want to get it coated.. Your car looks so good with that stance.. at leave it that low till after we shoot it for PHR.. lol
I think it looks great that low but Streetfytr has an excellent safety point. I would rather raise it and have a safe car than leave it low and have a wrecked car.
OLDFLM
08-24-2005, 08:15 AM
I have to agree with Street Fighter Steve...
Maybe leave it as is until after your mag feature(s) but then raise it and enjoy driving the hell out of it!
You do plan to drive it right? LOL :drive1:
V/R,
Ty
BEEBE
08-24-2005, 08:32 AM
I opt for option #3
Install a Pontiac 474 Stroker , and scoop up on a set of Tunnel Port Rons limited Tri-Y Headers for second gen Birds !!!
Steve your response is almost enough to make me change it, as i had the same feeling about the front suspension. The front tires are 26" tall. So maybe I'll just put another set of front springs in it and only cut 1/2" coil off this time. But I also like the other steves idea about waiting until htey shoot it? Also shorty headers are going to kill way more than 10hp and change the entire torque curve and kill tons of low end torque, which I don't have much of anyway
paul67
08-24-2005, 10:29 AM
Do you buy the pipes oval or make them? cause if you want to make a set what we do is put 2 pieces of wood the dia you want the pipes either side and get a oxy or accet bottle and roll it ove them.
paul67
Steve Chryssos
08-24-2005, 11:04 AM
Just remember that the first time you go sleigh riding, you may end up making a "Yule Log" in your pants.
CAMAROBOY69
08-24-2005, 11:32 AM
Like I said in the other thread. My car is lower than yours and is very rare for it to drag at all even on crappy Michigan roads.
Yeah you can completely forget speed bumps. :drive2:
Keep it low for now and if problems progress, go from there. I have been driving mine this low for a year now.
Just think. After a couple times of bottoming out and you will already have flat pipes like Steve.
Well it looks like I have to replace the springs, I drove it again more aggresively and it just won't work this low, the tires rub some and the headers bang on everything, hopefully a 1/2 coil off of the new springs will give me about 3/4" more clearance, heres another pic just because
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
F70t/a
08-24-2005, 05:51 PM
cody, what's the tires rubbing on?
Drewhelm
08-25-2005, 01:46 PM
Damn that's the RIGHT stance!!! It'll still look killer an inch higher, but it just looks perfect like it is.
Steve Chryssos
08-25-2005, 03:36 PM
That head on shot sure does look good. Will it fit in your living room? Maybe you could leave the ride height alone and use it as a coffee table?
/Steevo
or raise it up like yours? Then I could clear small dogs and children, maybe I could put a solid front axle on at the same time! Obvioulsy i am going to raise it some, going to get another set of springs, and only cut 1/2" this time and see where i am at, last time i cut abuot 7/8 off.
jeffandre
08-25-2005, 06:25 PM
I guess you will have to raise it for now, but make custom headers and exahust when you get a chance, and modify hwatever else is rubbing. Your car looks way to bada$$ when it is low so hopefully you will find a way to get it back down there someday. Keep up the good work!
the tires rub some on the lip of the front fender, i could increase the backspacing some(I;m already running a small spacer on front, can easily machine it down) plus they are already cambered in a lot,(need to get an alignment) I think about 1/2"-3/4" will be sufficient, it is still going to bang on dips and such but that is just part of the territory
yumyumchoppers
08-26-2005, 02:22 PM
lower it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ProdigyCustoms
08-26-2005, 04:12 PM
Taller tires will give the illusion if being lower. Some 27 to 27 1/2 will add at least 1 1/2 of an inch of ride heigh as you get 3/4 inch on the bottom half of the tire to the pin, and another 3/4 inch raising the car to cup the tire the same amount and still look just as low.
Also, 27s fit those big round wheel wells better, and will give a little more aspect ratio which would be better for handling and ride anyway.
Now sleigh riding, that does sound interesting!
my rear tire is 27" tall, so it is only 1/2" higher sidewall. It is a pretty beefylooking sidewall, i think it would look mighy funny on the front, maybe on a 20" wheel it would look okay.
primate
08-27-2005, 04:17 AM
man, the stance is killer yody. since this thread got derailed a bit ago, what agout airride? that way you can raise it as lil as you want, and still decapitate ants when you want. :headbang:
PRO TC
08-31-2005, 07:00 PM
it sure looks sweet. mine was the same way it scraped the header backing out of the driveway and my driveway is pretty level. so when i did my baer brakes and all new front bushings and guldstrand mod i installed new springs.thay raised the car about 1 inch and that all it took its way more drivable than before. so if you dont want to bag it id say change the spring just enough. pro-touring is all about driving your car
barry
Well I had to do it. I couldn't even drive the car normally without something scraping the ground. It sure doesn't look as good, thats for sure but I raised it up about an 1". But when i put the nose,innerfenders,lower valance, bumper brackets, and headlights, I figure that will add about 100ilbs to the front which will hopefully lower it just a little more. The problem with the second gen birds is that the fender arches are HUGE and its hard to make the wheels tuck without ridiculously lowering it. The headers havent' scraped yet, but I am sure they would with a passenger on driveways. I think this is its limit. Man I hate looking at those before pictures!!!!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
DarkBuddha
09-01-2005, 09:47 PM
I feel for you... you've tasted the apple and can't go back now. Ignorance is bliss...
A thought occurred to me that might help get you a bit of both worlds. Is it possible to run a taller sidewall tire? Even just at the rear? This would get you a higher ride height and give you that "tucked tire/wheel" look which we all love. Even if you just did it in the rear, that would get you back the rake of the previous stance and keep the tucked rear wheel look (ala pro-street) and the current front ride height. I know, I know... kind a pricey proposition.
yeah, thanks for the condolences! I already have a pretty tall back tire 27.1"'s. It don't get much taller than that!
DarkBuddha
09-01-2005, 10:26 PM
Wow! I didn't realize those were already that tall, but it sounds about right considering you're running 19s. About the only thing left is a step up to MTs. Kinda too bad though, 'cause I think it might've looked ok:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
Wow! do they sell that kit at Jcwhittney? maybe some air shocks could hook me up :) like the front that back tire looks funny though
Steve Chryssos
09-02-2005, 11:39 AM
If the nose doesn't drop with the added weight, 1/2" longer leaf spring shackles are the easiest part in the world to make. But I'd be on the lookout for some 40 series rubber once these tires wear out. What are the specs on your current tires (both width and aspect ratio)
DarkBuddha
09-02-2005, 11:58 AM
Wow! do they sell that kit at Jcwhittney? maybe some air shocks could hook me up :) like the front that back tire looks funny though
JCW has got you covered:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
Ralph LoGrasso
09-02-2005, 12:04 PM
JCW has got you covered:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://imageshack.us)
LMFAO! :lmao: Oh man, that is priceless!
I think i just crapped my pants LOL!!!
255/35/19
295/35/19
Steve Chryssos
09-02-2005, 12:41 PM
That reminds me of the 911 Targa from "Bachelor Party"
Back to the tires:
BAD NEWS: Based on a search at tirerack.com, you're out of luck on 295/40-19, but
GOOD NEWS: You CAN do a 255/40-19, and your front sidewalls will still be ever so slightly shorter than your rear sidewalls. So you can better fill the front wheelwells without the front tires looking taller than the rears. The math:
255mm * .4 = 102mm
295mm *.35 - 103.25mm
GOOD NEWS: Ten results came up for 255/40-19
MORE BAD NEWS: Two results came up for 295/35-19 and neither of them match the ten 255 results.
Conclusion? :banghead: If you seek perfection (and I know you do), you'll probably need to go to a 20" wheel out back in order to achieve the perfect combination of stance, ride height and wheelwell filling. There's always floorboard mods and custom exhaust, but I still think your crossmember will be too low.
Look on the bright side: This is an excellent exercise for other 2nd genners considering 19's.
/Steevo
so first you say its too low, now you say too high, what is this a bad joke??
TonyL
09-02-2005, 01:26 PM
"the 911 from bachelor party"
I was sitting there, looking at that pic, going where have I seen a car that tacky before???
Steve Chryssos
09-02-2005, 03:01 PM
Me? I just see this as routine. A monkey can just slap a car together with the wrong stance, wrong ride height and wheelwell filling. But if you wanna nail the look, you gotta juggle parts. I think Kyle Tucker says they re-arched the leaf springs on the Red Witch at least a half dozen times.
So now (just my opinion):
-Your front ride height is just right
-Your rear ride height is 1/2" too low
-When you fix the rear ride height both ride height and stance will be perfect, but now your tires don't fill the wheelwells.
-So now you need 40 series tires to fill the wheelwells, but you chose 19's instead of more common 18's and/or 20's.
So I'd be hitting every tire manufacturer's website to see if anyone makes both 255/40 and 295/40 (or maybe 295/45) tires.
/Steevo
MrQuick
09-02-2005, 04:17 PM
I "f"in told you that it would look better with 18's in front.
DarkBuddha
09-02-2005, 04:26 PM
Me? I just see this as routine. A monkey can just slap a car together with the wrong stance, wrong ride height and wheelwell filling. But if you wanna nail the look, you gotta juggle parts. I think Kyle Tucker says they re-arched the leaf springs on the Red Witch at least a half dozen times.
So now (just my opinion):
-Your front ride height is just right
-Your rear ride height is 1/2" too low
-When you fix the rear ride height both ride height and stance will be perfect, but now your tires don't fill the wheelwells.
-So now you need 40 series tires to fill the wheelwells, but you chose 19's instead of more common 18's and/or 20's.
So I'd be hitting every tire manufacturer's website to see if anyone makes both 255/40 and 295/40 (or maybe 295/45) tires.
/Steevo
Rather than all that noise, I say you just go ahead and channel the body. :hammer:
I think the front actually just needs to go down just a tad, but I think it is most wise to wait until the front is assembled. Heres a little trick about the rear ride height, the front spring eye perch is drilled so the leaf spring is mounted higher. I could relocate it which would raise the rear about 1/2". Guess its worth a try but i thought the rear sat perfect. And NO vince 18's would be worse, they would make the car sit lower in the front and create a bigger gap between the fender and top of tire.
Camaro_Dan
09-03-2005, 04:56 AM
My 2nd gen camaro is too low aswell. the headers hit on EVERYTHING. I'm going with shorty headers and maybe even a oval pipe for the first bit of the exhaust.
The back is raised since the picture was taken, I now have 1" taller rear shackles.
I run 15" wheels and thinking about putting on some nascar style slicks. what do you think?
here is a picture:
well since you asked, I would get rid of those wheels, those are left over from the prostreet and even earlier days. Also it must be a pain to see over that hood!! That car would look good with some 18" billet wheels. Maybe someone can photoshop your car with the right tires?
Camaro_Dan
09-03-2005, 10:18 AM
Well, I don't like the look of 2nd gen with large rims, 1st gen is awesome lookin, 2nd gen is just wrong. sure it is a little challenge to se over the scoop on the hood, but not as bad as you think. I don't want the scoop but it came with the car, and the hood won't clear the engine. but what I want to know is how it's going to look with 15" slicks, wide ones! front and back. I have seen a 1st gen in progress here on the forum that had the slicks Im talking about! it looked the part!
Well, I don't like the look of 2nd gen with large rims, 1st gen is awesome lookin, 2nd gen is just wrong. sure it is a little challenge to se over the scoop on the hood, but not as bad as you think. I don't want the scoop but it came with the car, and the hood won't clear the engine. but what I want to know is how it's going to look with 15" slicks, wide ones! front and back. I have seen a 1st gen in progress here on the forum that had the slicks Im talking about! it looked the part!
okay, then make a post and maybe someone will see and let you know, but not sure if anyone here has 15" wheels with slicks on a second gen? you might try nastyz28.com and do a search
69Nova
09-03-2005, 10:57 AM
Camaro Dan- I say get some diffrent 15" wheels and nascar style slicks would look awsome.
Andrew Petty
Camaro_Dan
09-03-2005, 11:17 AM
yes, Im thinking of getting some cragar wheels 5spoke or something similar.
sorry, won't take up more of your pressious thread here yody :D
TonyL
09-03-2005, 11:52 AM
yes, Im thinking of getting some cragar wheels 5spoke or something similar.
sorry, won't take up more of your pressious thread here yody :D
actually, starting your own thread in multimedia would be a good idea. head over there, post alot of pics of your car and we'll photochop on the wheels and tires you like. I have many "nascar" looks to choose from. Your car and your idea would get full attention in it's own thread. Making other people with similar ideas better able to search and find a thread on nascar looking camaros.
actually, starting your own thread in multimedia would be a good idea. head over there, post alot of pics of your car and we'll photochop on the wheels and tires you like. I have many "nascar" looks to choose from. Your car and your idea would get full attention in it's own thread. Making other people with similar ideas better able to search and find a thread on nascar looking camaros.
yeah, thats all i meant, wasn't trying to be rude.....I swear!
Roger Poirier
09-05-2005, 07:33 PM
Yody,
I believe you are correct to wait. Let the springs settle. Once additional weight is on the front you will have a better idea.
Note: My GTO has 235.40.18 in front. I used the 40's to fill the wheel well space, yet I still have 275.35.20 in the rear.
Its all good here.
R.P.
man I am jealous of your headers!! however it would be too much right now to take on that project, probably later I might just to gwith that project, i am going to wait until all the weight is on the front, probably leave the back as it is. And then lower the front just a tad if needed
OLDFLM
09-06-2005, 10:35 AM
I agree with Yody. Don't change anything until the front is completely assembled and had some time to settle. It might just be the exact stance you had before! If not then raise the rear or cut a half coil, but I think the rear mod would be easier and more easily adjustable...
V/R,
Ty
if i cut any more spring, it wouldnt be a half coil more like 3/4" of the coil. Teh only difference between now and the previous stance is about 1/3 of a coil. Very sensitive. As it sits it seems to be about 1 1/2" higher.
OLDFLM
09-06-2005, 08:09 PM
I think it looks great as is... the added weight will drop the front down some... maybe another .5-1 inch! Our 2nd Gen Firebird wheelwells are huge! I think you've done a great job filling them up with 19s. Get it assembled, let it settle and leave it alone. But most of all enjoy driving it!!!!!!
V/R,
Ty
p.s. When do you expect to have the front completed and painted?
those are the plans. Hopefully in the next 2 months.
OLDFLM
09-08-2005, 07:51 AM
Seriously! I love what you've done to your car!!
Wish I had your brakes/wheels! LOL
Anxiously awaiting more updates and the finished product!
V/R,
Ty
Matt@RFR
03-02-2006, 05:41 PM
Uhh, Ty? Yody's been banned for quite some time. :)
protour_chevelle
03-02-2006, 06:02 PM
Uhh, Ty? Yody's been banned for quite some time. :)
uhhh... Post date check? 09-08-2005 :pat: :slap:
-Matt
F70t/a
03-02-2006, 09:32 PM
any other site with updates?
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