A-body spring question

[Mr_Roboto]

OK guys, I have a few questions on springs. First off, I've been picking through a Moog table or two in order to see what I need. Based on the options listed on Rock Auto, my replacements would be 5400/5401. I have a 71 Lemans sedan, no A/C or PS, manual trans and a 350 Pontiac. Spring rates are 358 and 127 respectively. Based on the little driving of this car I have done, it's got the 70s "cloud ride." What I'm looking for out of this is something that's far more in line with modern handling, and possibly a smallish (1" or so) drop over what I have now. Then again, I think it's also possible my springs have sagged some so I need to take body height measurements. The other thing is I have no rear sway bar and my front one is likely the 15/16 unit. I'm looking at getting the Addco rear bar right now, then figuring out whatever else I want to do down the road. I'm also curious about JY bars that work, but seem to hear mixed stuff on which ones will or won't.

These are the candidates I have:

MOOG-6041-appear to be from late 50s-early 60s "B" cars. based on the fact that these are 499lb/in vs 358 lb/in and the same free height I expect to have to knock some coils out to get these to a decent height. I would expect that to raise the rate a decent amount.
MOOG-5536-These are a decent candidate at 487 lb/in, and a free height 2" shorter than the stockers. I think these are plausibly a great candidate for what I'm looking to do. They also were used production in A-bodies during 68-72 so it's good from a compatibility stand point.
-candidates for fronts
MOOG-6381 Another A-body spring. I think they'd need quite a bit of cutting to get down to a stock ride height.

Any other candidates I'm not looking at that I should be? I'm looking to do ultra budget on this, the amount of cash I have to do it is very finite. That's one of the reasons I'm looking at the Moog springs is they seem to have a decent price point although they're not powder coated etc. That also means if I make a mistake on my selection I can get another set without too much looking. What about JY candidates for springs, any good ones out there? I know there's a WS6 GTA at the yard that could pony up some parts. Based on the #s I can find though they are going to be on the tame side for me.

Here is how I got there:
Keep in mind that these are some #s I'm pulling out of a certain place, but I'm wanting to see if I'm on the right track with this.

As an estimate the car weighs ~3750, but say 300 of that is unsprung weight so we subract that out giving 3450. (btw do control arms count as unsprung weight?) Weight distribution is 55F/45R based on what I've read.

3750-300=3450lbs*.55=1897.5 front weight
3450-1897.5=1552.5 rear weight

Diving each of these by 2 gives 948.75 front 776.25 rear weight being applied to the springs at rest. Dumping that into the specs for the 5400s and 5401s I get:

17-948.75lb/358lb/in=14.35in installed height front
13.15-776.25/129=7.13in installed height rear

Am I over simplifying this? Over complicating it? Also does any one have any info on Sedans of this era in regards to weight distribution?

[djfxall]

For a mordern car feel you would benefit more from front upper control arms along with some springs the a body front geometry with stock uppers has bad camber sc&c has a good article on there site

[UMI Tech]

We have a new set of 530 lb fronts and 130 linear rears. These combined with our caster corrected upper arms make the float go away...

[shep]

700-750 front with a small bar is right in the range you are looking for 200-250 rear would work with the front. These cars respond well to a stiffer spring. I don't know what your budget is but I would go with circle track springs and adjusters. You can find springs for $30 a corner the adjusters are about the same so for around $180 you could have it set up. you will want the 9.5 x 5 inch spring for the front and 11 inch with a pig tail on one end for the rear. If you don't like the spring rate it is only $60 to switch out the front or rear. Speedway has the adjustable shims and southwest speed has the springs cheap.

[Mr_Roboto]

So it's actually a camber issue? Very interesting. That will be some more reading. The Circle track stuff is definitely interesting, especially in the rear where you can't trim springs safely to adjust height due to them being pig tail style.

I've been doing some reading that lots of camber can make a vehicle difficult to steer. Will turning into The Hulk or getting power steering going to be mandatory if I get upper arms?

[djfxall]

There are allot of factors that come into suspension here is a link to the sc&c article http://scandc.com/new/node/674
I am no expert on suspension but have started my homework on it the first thing you need to do is make goals realistic ones and then figure out how to get there. From what I have read if my goals were to just get a more modern feel I would start with upper control arms then sway bars along with a 98 cherokee box swap after that springs the list can keep going on and on but umi has a sale right now and they have a tall ball joint upper that would help out allot give them or sc&c a call let them know your goals take there advice. I just had a son last year so I know what it is like to build on a budget my 700r4 lost 2nd and 4th about two weeks ago so I have been saving to rebuild it so I will not have to again. In the mean time I am studing up on other mods and options I have for doing the rest of car. Hope this helps a little.

[Mr_Roboto]

There are allot of factors that come into suspension here is a link to the sc&c article http://scandc.com/new/node/674
I am no expert on suspension but have started my homework on it the first thing you need to do is make goals realistic ones and then figure out how to get there. From what I have read if my goals were to just get a more modern feel I would start with upper control arms then sway bars along with a 98 cherokee box swap after that springs the list can keep going on and on but uci has a sale right now and they have a tall ball joint upper that would help out allot give them or sc&c a call let them know your goals take there advice. I just had a son last year so I know what it is like to build on a budget my 700r4 lost 2nd and 4th about two weeks ago so I have been saving to rebuild it so I will not have to again. In the mean time I am studing up on other mods and options I have for doing the rest of car. Hope this helps a little.

My son just turned one last week so I understand entirely. Establshng goals is the funny part I wanted to do a drag vehicle for the van but dont know with this. Just know brakes are the first mod priority right now and planning the rest.

I need more reading for certain, as this build is pulling my budget a few directions between body, engine suspension and brakes.

Btw if you want I can tell you how to probably get your tranny working again for under a hundred bucks. Not prett but beter than dead. gave up on the 700 in th van and went 80. Have an sm326 I have as of yet to make a decsion on in the lemans.

[djfxall]

I know I vould just change the band but I plan on adding 5 pinion ac delco planetaries and need a good converter along with the billet servos instead of the corvette servo already have allot of goodies in it as it was bought as stage 2 trans so now I'm just going to add the rest of the goodies and be done with it 1000 later in parts and fluid

[Mr_Roboto]

Got a std band with super servo? Prob punched the place the pin hits. Was thnking sun shell personall could be the sprag too maybe.

Oops missed where you said std servo be sure you get a high end band for that.

[djfxall]

It has a beast sunshell in it already along with the 29 element sprag the .5 boost valve. I also think I sheered the band were the pin hits, it went under full throttle take off. I am also gonna have to change the clutches out in the 3/4 drum they put in 9 clutches so I was going to swap them out for an 8 clutch set of red eagle alto clutchs with kolene plates. Also going to change the reverse drum and go with the wide carbon band. For the converter was thinking about the PATC mega raptor with a 3200 stall. I spent some time on the the phone with PATC told them what was already in it and what they suggested. I probably really don't need the 5 pinion planetaries as I will never have slicks on the car.