Is there a best time to buy a turn key Pro-touring car?

[cactuss4]

Please don't tar and feather me.

I started looking for a complete, almost complete vehicle in the last couple of months. I missed a really nice 66 Chevelle at the beginning of the month and as far as 69 Camaro's, there seems to never be a shortage of them (just the price disparity).

While I love to wrench, have a good idea once in a while and do have a mid lift in my garage (built some nice Euro machines that match your more built up HP/TQ numbers), I've decided that I would like to buy vs build this time, not only does it save coin (generally), but I don't have the time, the back etc that I once had. But growing up with older american iron, I would like to get into one to drive around and get my boy interested. the wife already has the glint in her eye when we see or more importantly hear something idling or cruisen by that has that throaty ya wut, cam/exhaust sound.

Is looking around during the summer stupid, should I be waiting for when some of the cars are not being enjoyed "winter or other", or is it really, keep an eye out (cars-online, ebay, local CL, pro-touring, pro-street forums), and have your hand inside your wallet to pounce?

I'm not spending the $50K plus, so many of the cars/owners are out of the running for me. If I can get something that could use some changes i'm up for that. But because I want a classic with a more modern handling performance oriented vehicle, pro-touring is where I should be. While I love pro-street cars, 4 link and big tubs don't do well in the corners, but more importantly the kid would like to come along, so a back seat is important.

So is there a best time, or is the simple answer, is the best time is when you found the right one and you turn the key of "your" new baby? Is there better places to keep a look out?

Looking for 66 Chevelle, or sorry to some 69 Camaro.

Thanks
Tory
Livermore, CA
2001 Cactus S4, 550+hp 3.0L GT28RS turbo's with all the fixens
2002 GoodWood Green S6, stock, undergoing 6spd conversion.

[Flash68]

Just like real estate.... when there's blood in the streets.

[alocker]

Just like buying anything (not retail), you must be very patient, look everywhere, and be quick on the draw with cash ready. I would say prices are on the upswing now so waiting until the market crashes again (you know it will) there will be some deals.

[riles]

Patience , they will come down again. When the NObama care kicks in and peoples deductibles and premiums double , you'll see some who need to get rid of the 'toys'. Also there's about to be another housing problem with the rates going up and most still in the red as far as cost-value, won't make it any easier for housing. There is also going to be changes in employment status, such as cutting hours to under 30hrs a week to avoid the insurance and other ways for companies to save. Then there's the market correcting itself after the feds stop dumping cash into it to keep it afloat. Tough times ahead, unfortunately it's going to be at the cost of good people.
If your antsy and need something soon, fall is a good season to buy, due to people wanting to avoid another year of storage fees over winter or just not wanting to prep the cars for another winter.

[cactuss4]

I guess I don't know what down is? I was thinking the $30-$35K realm for a nicely done 66 Chevelle was in order and was hoping one could get a 69 Camaro at similar costs, but they are on a tear north bound. So I guess I need to start researching past sales to get an idea what this "they will come down" price is, so that I'm more informed.

Thanks,

Tory

[zipsimons]

You can get into a very capable car in the 30-35 range. Your best bet is to find something with a great paint job that is only a few years old and a well built mild motor. These type of cars are plentiful with nice interiors too. Pick one up, do some suspension and wheel upgrades but only based on necessity. Feel free to PM me or call if you would like any more information.

[eldogg]

I would look for a car that running, driving with nice paint and interior. Buy suspension, brake, wheels & etc. that YOU WANT and either install them yourself or pay a local shop to install it for you. A project like that would only take about a week to complete.

[ho428]

Around here you can get some really nice Chevelles well under 30K, big blocks, small blocks, 4 speeds, etc... probably add 5-10K for your west coast location.
Like Eric said, find one of those and do the brake suspension conversion, it's mostly bolt on stuff anyway.

A true tricked out PT build is not only more expensive but much harder to come across. While this forum makes it seem like they are everywhere, they're really not. For every 10 modified, cloned or restored stocks at a show or cruise they'll be 1 true PT build.

[csouth]

Sometimes you just need to check the classifieds here. Not my car, but I browse from time to time to see whats out there

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?100001-69-Camaro-416-LS3

[cactuss4]

Thanks, saw that and while I always thought a 69 RS/SS was my go to classic, I've really started to think the 66 Chevelle is a better choice for me, they are more interesting to me now (after a couple of months at looking at both). This is a really nice Camaro and is a great start for a good street / track driver, but again I'm starting to back away from my want of a 69 Camaro and focus more on the 66 Chevelle. I think I could do the 69 for the right price, but if I'm up in the $30K range, I think the Chevelle is winning the race at this time (and on the other hand, i think the Camaro is a better form factor for a track car, while the Chevelle would make a better trip/cruise car).

so I need to get out and start touching some metal, vs looking at pictures on the intrawebs :)

Thanks!

Tory

[jtwoods4]

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[jtwoods4]

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[jtwoods4]

I guess I don't know what down is? I was thinking the $30-$35K realm for a nicely done 66 Chevelle was in order and was hoping one could get a 69 Camaro at similar costs, but they are on a tear north bound. So I guess I need to start researching past sales to get an idea what this "they will come down" price is, so that I'm more informed.

Thanks,

Tory

A nice "turn key pro-touring" car will cost in the 50k range. The engines alone in these cars are at least 10k. It would be tough to find any real pro-touring car for 30 to 35k unless the seller is loosing money. I have over 50k in my 69 GTO.

[csouth]

Thanks, saw that and while I always thought a 69 RS/SS was my go to classic, I've really started to think the 66 Chevelle is a better choice for me, they are more interesting to me now (after a couple of months at looking at both). This is a really nice Camaro and is a great start for a good street / track driver, but again I'm starting to back away from my want of a 69 Camaro and focus more on the 66 Chevelle. I think I could do the 69 for the right price, but if I'm up in the $30K range, I think the Chevelle is winning the race at this time (and on the other hand, i think the Camaro is a better form factor for a track car, while the Chevelle would make a better trip/cruise car).

so I need to get out and start touching some metal, vs looking at pictures on the intrawebs :)

Thanks!

Tory

Well Chevelle's and Camaro's are probably the most sought after muscle cars in general, but both good platforms. Be prepared to find some that may be overpriced for the condition just because the the nameplate.

[MonzaRacer]

If your buying a pre built car or a current project.
From picking up un modded car then working it over.
My biggest thing is watching guys with simple skills TRY to emulate big car builders.
Stripping cars down to bare shells, then spending tens of thousands of dollars on parts just like the big time builders.
Dont get me wrong, if you want to spend and build like that.
I want to see people do PT with LIMITED budgets, AND reasonable budgets constraints.
It shouldn't have to be that EVERY PT car costs $50k+ to build.
Hence my 77 Monza 2+2 "Cheap Trick"
Ebay disc Brakes from Corvette
Kore3 or other version of adapter depending on use of ZQ8 spindles.
Looking at 4wd S10 rearend with stock disc(in case I want to take off 17's and swap in some 15's with slicks)
Using LT1 FI intake, then will put on twin ebay turbos as parts are picked up
Building my own seats, from $10 swap meet seats and Monza seats as my car takes a real narrow seat.
My suspension I HOPE will be at least functional. Was thinking of Air Ride but since Ridetech came out with Coil-Overs I am thinking of at least having them in front and maybe air in back. Time and budget will tell.
BUT picking the base to work from also entails just how skilled you are,, if you fall in love with a rust bucket, you better be ready to get extra jobs to pay for body work, special metal shaping is included here.
Basic paint and prep are fairly easy or your local paint and body guys may moonlight on custom stuff.
It doesnt TAKE $5000-$10000 in wheels to make a car WORK. These are the I wants talking.
Does everyone love Rushforths or Forgelines, sure they are nice, looks great, well built. BUT could it look good and function and not cost more than the average used car?
That being said, dont get me wrong, I would love to be able to order a set of custom wheels above. BUT sometimes how about putting reality AND dream together? I had a guy with a 71 o 72 Camaro, wanted to drag race. Started with fresh 307 he got for $50, previous owner said it had burnt valve. Had flat cam. So we pulled it down, no ridge, clean, and he found a guy selling a set of forged std flat tops, older Eagle I beams. Hit swap meet, and got a steel crank that wasnt a 350 (ie large journal 327)
Bought a engraved sfi balancer and a rebuild kit with mild cam.
Found a craigslist aluminum intake with carb.
His car ran low 9's high 8's with $380 in parts.
Guy down road had another kid and swapped his 3.73 LS 12 bolt for buddies 2.73 LS rear end.
Ran 8.20's, another guy bought a converter then switched to 4 speed my buddy got it for $75.
Ran 7.80's.
We tuned around and got him into low 7's (all 1/8th mile times).
He decided to pull engine down and do some more work AND make it fast and drivable as truck and trailer was killing him.
One cylinder in block looked bad so he bought a .030 350 that was bored and squared, sold his 307 block, forged pistons and stock rods to local kid. Built a steel crank 327, added LT1 intake and MegaSquirt III and has been working things over.
Basic suspension mods, big Vette brakes, Vette wheels, ridetech 4 link, even found set of ShockWaves. Using old A6 compressor for air supply and swap meet Ridetech solenoids.
He is now saving for TigerCage and some updates on ShockWaves but has hit could of Autocross somewhere. Even hit some SCCA thing once I believe.
So far the car he had $2k or $3k in. And MAYBE he had same amount in car parts. And over 5 or 6 yrs now has reasonably priced and very well performing car.
Build smart over building expensive.
Just some thoughts and observations and what one guy did.

[bs46488]

Some great advice here....

I think it depends on the type of care you want to get. As soon as you said Chevelle and Camaro your price just went up. You could get a different not-as-popular body style and save thousands. When I bought my project Nova, I found something almost driveable vs. for the same price range a rusted out not running chevelle.

I like what Zipsimons and ELDOGG said, find a clean car and upgrade the suspension/brakes/wheels that you want. You can find clean classics (and tons of trucks) that guys have already done the body/paint and engine work on. You can easily upgrade suspension with kits and be rolling in the matter of a couple of weekends or probably 2-3 days if your paying a shop.

I'd do this for entry level...
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/3909286723.html
1971 C10 Chevy, 350 V8, frame off restoration < $10k
stage 3 suspension < $2k
Wheels/tires <$2k (Sell the ones on the truck)
Seats/interior <$1k
Steering upgrades <$1k
....so far we've only spent $16k and your driving by the end of July! For $16k you can barely purchase a running Camaro.


Monza brings up a good point also about $$ vs. performance. I have this same mentality when looking at upgrades and purchases for my road/mtb bikes. Sure I could drop $1-2k on sweet carbon rims and wheels for my road bike. But the moral of the story is that I could still stand invest the time and effort into becoming a better rider (and better shape, lose a couple more lbs on myself) than shelling out more cash.

[sccacuda]

I would not be looking for a PT car. I would be more concerned with the "foundation". Never buy a recently painted car. I would look for at least 3-5 year old paint job. Whatever nasties are underneath and fixed incorrectly will make themselves known. Look for good body lines and gaps, and make sure you put it on a lift and see what the underside condition is in. If I were you, I'd look for a restored or cosmetic resto and add your PT flare. These cars tend to be more affordable, especially if it's a clone. I see these sell for what the resto alone cost. Mid 30's, and then just bolt on your goodies and sell what comes off back to the resto crowd.