Second opinions....

[PT Sportwagon]

Bass is more feel than hear. so having a sub firing into the interior is a mute point. I have a single 10" Rockford Band pass box in my wifes lincoln Town car. It sits on the side trunk shelf. with the port firing backwards. with 300w PPI A300 sounds good. As Scott said. adding more speakers can cause trouble. I won the 2002 USACi Sound Quility world championship with only 5 speakers. the winningest car in SQ Car audio compitition Richard Clark's Grand National only has 6 speakers with a 1500 watt Amp to each speaker. So less is more as they say.

Tim

[scott_fx]

yeah. to combine what pt sportwagon said and my post. 5 speakers = front mid, front tweeter and sub. no rear speakers.

i never run rear speakers in my builds. best example of this... when you go see a concert... when do they put speakers behind you?

[andrewb70]

I am bringing this thread back up from the dead. I think a lot of you saw the thread regarding my MicroSub experiment. If not, you can see it here:

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...Sub-experiment

After goofing around with the MicroSub, I decided to really take a look with my existing set-up. I discovered that the rear package tray was not exactly solid. The "professionals" that installed the box in the first place, cut out a huge square section right out of the middle, which really weakened the package tray. This isn't so much of an issue, unless there is a 50 pound box with a substantial sub attached to it. I am quite certain that the whole package tray used to move around quite a bit, which isn't exactly ideal. Also, I found that the box itself wasn't well made. Part of it was made of MDF, while another part was made of regular particle board. Also, instead of installing a proper terminal, they simply made a hole in the box, passed the wire through, and called it a day. No silicone...nothing...not even gum.



On a brighter note, once I pulled the sub, I realize that it was a Diamond Audio M6...and not a M3 as I originally thought. This was the top of the line sub back in the day and has dual 500w 4 ohm voice coils.



At least they wired it properly for a 2 ohm load. The other good news is that the box is the right size for the driver. Diamond Audio designed these subs to work in fairly small sealed enclosures, around .75 cubic feet. I took some measurements and after a few calculations got .72 cubic feet, after taking the volume of the driver into account. The good news is that with a little TLC, I think I can reuse this box. It is just the right size to fit on top of the hump that GM A-bodies have in the trunk and obviously the volume is right.

So now the questions...

Would it be better to point the driver towards the rear?

Would it be better to point the driver towards the rear seat back?

Any suggestions for anchoring this thing?

I am also quite certain that I am not driving this bad boy with enough power. Right now it is getting 350 watts, and that's just not enough. I bet the driver isn't even broken in.

I did pick up a used Xtant 601 a while back, so I am tempted to use it for the sub.

All comments and suggestions are welcome...

Andrew

[alocker]

Andrew,

Back in the day when my buddies and I were poor, we spent hours tuning our systems to get the most out of them. If your car allowed the sub to face rearward, you got the best overall response. You would think facing the driver forward would be the best but it isn't. We also found and upward facing driver was the least desirable in certain cars. As for anchoring, an "L" bracket screwed to the rear seat divider frame would be a decent way so you don't have to go into the trunk floor.

That thing should hit pretty good even with 350 watts RMS.

[alocker]

Now that I re-re-read the whole thing, just throw the big amp in there and put it any way you want. That's the most fun option by far

[andrewb70]

Now that I re-re-read the whole thing, just throw the big amp in there and put it any way you want. That's the most fun option by far

Hahaha...Now you're thinking like I am. I first have to see if the 601 eBay special will even work. It arrived with some questionable solder joints on a couple of capacitors. I resoldered them, but it may not even work. The other issue I am having is that both the amps are HUGE! Where in the world am I going to mount them?

Can they go under the rear seat?

Andrew

[alocker]

1/2 the reason you buy an old Xtant is to show it off, it would be a shame to hide it. I also think airflow is more critical for the old a/b class amps. Since I don't know your box dimensions, it's hard to recommend another spot. If the box is short enough, on the bottom of the rear deck is an option. You just have to make sure you leave a small gap for airflow on the bottom of the amp chassis if you mount it upside down.

[andrewb70]

So I had a chance to play around today. I fixed the box by adding a proper terminal box and otherwise making sure that it is sealed up. Then I started playing around with placement. Just about anywhere in the trunk sounded way better than firing through the rear deck. Probably the best was firing backwards, but it was really hard to tell the difference. It definitely hits much harder even with just the same old amp. I did hook up the Xtant 1001x and I think it is dead. It seems to power up, but I wasn't able to make it go boom..boom...

Now I have a dilemma. I can mount the box in the center, just behind the rear seat back, and fire it backwards. The questions is where do I mount the amp?

It used to be attached to the box itself, but with the speaker facing to the rear there is no longer a nice flat spot that is easily accessible.

Ideal?

Andrew

[andrewb70]

What do you guys think about facing the driver towards the bottom of the trunk? I am pretty sure that I can raise it up about 2 inches away from them trunk floor and wedge it in tightly between the floor and the rear package tray. This also solves my amp mount dilemma...

I got the idea from some of the Jeep boxes that are on the market.

Andrew

[alocker]

Almost every home theater sub fires that way and is fine. I would test it to make sure you like the way it sounds.

[andrewb70]

Almost every home theater sub fires that way and is fine. I would test it to make sure you like the way it sounds.

I did a little testing and it certainly felt like it hit harder. It is really hard to judge because things are rattling around and the box itself is not fully secured. I imagine that after I bolt it down and eliminate the rattles it will sound even better.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

In short, FML.

I spent about 6 hours doing this:



Only to try this afterwards:



What look like cheap ass 12" Kenwoods totally rocked...If only I had done that first...as I said, FML.

Andrew

[alocker]

Nice. Its all about optimization. We had friends spend a gazillion dollars on high end stuff with custom installs that looked awesome. They always sounded average though. The subs were always mounted to look cool and you could not move them to try different angles. An optimized enclosure with a little tuning can make a huge difference.

[scott_fx]

In short, FML.


What look like cheap ass 12" Kenwoods totally rocked...If only I had done that first...as I said, FML.

Andrew

it probably has to do with the increased distance it gains by having the subs pointing toward the back. try to spin that single sub box you built so it's facing the rear. you may notice some gain as well then you can move it to one side and mount the amp (facing rearward also) on the same plane

[andrewb70]

it probably has to do with the increased distance it gains by having the subs pointing toward the back. try to spin that single sub box you built so it's facing the rear. you may notice some gain as well then you can move it to one side and mount the amp (facing rearward also) on the same plane

Scott,

Thanks for the suggestion.

I really would prefer not to have that giant box back there. I will try my single 10, firing back and see how that works. I may end up building a custom box that fits nicely off to one side. I wish some company would make a molded box that fits nicely up on that shelf. Surely I am not the only person that owns a 68-72 GM A-body that wants a nice compact system that hits hard.

Maybe I should try the MicroSub in the trunk while I am at it...Hmmm...

Andrew

[andrewb70]

I scratched the fiberglass box idea. Instead, I decided that it would be simpler and easier to build a shelf behind the seat that would support the sub on the passenger side and allow for space for the amp on the driver's side.

Here is what I came up with. It isn't super pretty, but it will do the job. The trunk of my car was never meant to be a show piece, it is there to haul crap.



The shelf is 1/2" MDF and is supported by the hump in the middle and some trimmed down 2x4s on the edges. The 2x4s will be attached to the trunk divider and the sub will be anchored to the bottom of the package tray. Should be pretty solid.

Here you can see where the amp will go.



There will be ample space all around it for cooling and all the wires will come in from behind and underneath and should look pretty clean.

I even decided that I should make everything a little prettier and wrapped the sub in black felt and I will do the same for the shelf.



Stay tuned for more, as I just placed an order with Don at Sound Deadener Showdown

This is turning into sub/interior sound deadener redo...

Any comments and suggestions are welcome as always.

Andrew

[scott_fx]

looks good but... do i spy an xtant amp?
I had a 603x... (or was it an x603) back in the day... such a phenomenal amp! I like your setup, i'm pretty sure that's about the same configuration that i'll be using (when my car gets back from the body shop) Did you notice some gains by having your sub aimed towards the rear?



have you thought about turning the amp 90 degrees and flush mounting it?

[andrewb70]

looks good but... do i spy an xtant amp?
I had a 603x... (or was it an x603) back in the day... such a phenomenal amp! I like your setup, i'm pretty sure that's about the same configuration that i'll be using (when my car gets back from the body shop) Did you notice some gains by having your sub aimed towards the rear?

have you thought about turning the amp 90 degrees and flush mounting it?

Scott,

That is indeed an Xtant 603e. I've had it since I first built the car and I bought the amp new. It's probably just broken in...LOL

I like a simple 3 channel set-up and this amp was designed specifically for that. I got everything wrapped up and I am pretty pleased with the results. I am learning that bass response is funny. In my other thread I was experimenting with mounting a JL MicroSub inside the cabin, thinking that printing the bass closer would be better, but clearly that is not the case. For fun I mounted the MicroSub in the trunk and it sounded better than behind the driver's seat. Go figure...




Andrew

[scott_fx]

Scott,

That is indeed an Xtant 603e. I've had it since I first built the car and I bought the amp new. It's probably just broken in...LOL

I like a simple 3 channel set-up and this amp was designed specifically for that. I got everything wrapped up and I am pretty pleased with the results. I am learning that bass response is funny. In my other thread I was experimenting with mounting a JL MicroSub inside the cabin, thinking that printing the bass closer would be better, but clearly that is not the case. For fun I mounted the MicroSub in the trunk and it sounded better than behind the driver's seat. Go figure...




Andrew

yeah, I've only had a couple amps that sounded better and i can't say that definitively. the xtant was only 75 watts with passive x-over, the others were 150 wrms and running active.


here is what i was talking considering mounting it flush:

[andrewb70]

The flush mount is definitely sexy, but I just didn't want to bother. My trunk isn't "show" quality, so I think what I have now looks pretty good. The Xtant has a sexy stainless cover and at least the wires are all hidden and neat.

Andrew