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    Page 17 of 37 FirstFirst ... 7 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 27 ... LastLast
    Results 321 to 340 of 721
    1. #321
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      Anaheim, Ca
      Posts
      138
      Country Flag: United States
      How big is your front sway bar? A long long time ago I had a 71 skylark with a 1 1/4" front bar that kept pulling the sway bar bolts out. A guy told me that running a front sway bar over 1" was a waste because the frame would flex and twist before the bigger bar did anything unless you I had the forward roll cage bars to stiffen up the front of the frame.

      This was a long long time ago and to be honest this guy could be full of it but it kinda makes sense, I dunno if someone else can chime in with their experice on stock frame flex with big sway bar set ups, just a thought....


      JORDAN

    2. #322
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      My bar is 1.5" dia 0.375" wall tube...it is VERY stiff.

      Before that I ran a 1.5" dia 0.250" wall tube bar in the same mounts and the difference between the two bars was huge.

      I have no other frame stiffening on my car except for the UMI front chassis brace.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    3. #323
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      Anaheim, Ca
      Posts
      138
      Country Flag: United States
      Is chassis flex not a concern? I'm just curious, as that is a pretty hefty front bar. I've done some full chassis cars and when I went to jack up the driver side front tire the other side came up almost the exact same time but on the average street car you can get the one side a good way off the ground before the other side starts to move, I just was just curious to know if this is even a factor in a pro touring car or if that UMI brace fixes most of it. (I haven't seen what they look like but I'll google it now lol)

      Thanks


      JORDAN

    4. #324
      Join Date
      Feb 2012
      Location
      Central NY
      Posts
      240
      Country Flag: United States
      The UMI brace ties the front horns together with the middle cross member under the engine. Kind of triangulates the front end.

    5. #325
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      On these cars the chassis is very flexible, actually the body acts like a unibody and is used to strengthen the chassis instead of the other way around.

      That said, we have dialed in the front and rear roll resistance and front suspension geometry to take that into consideration and it has not been an issue. The car is neutral balanced in corners as is which lets it carry as much speed as possible resulting in great times. Here are the raw results from our autocross last weekend.

      https://kcrscca.org/results/solo/201...vent11_raw.htm

      And here is a video of the car on course with a tightened down front sway bar...

      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    6. #326
      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Location
      Anaheim, Ca
      Posts
      138
      Country Flag: United States
      I know what you mean by flexible, I unbolted the front clip on my car and now the doors don't line up! That UMI brace looks pretty cool wish I had one on my skylark 10 years ago lol. I didn't know Ron took torsional stiffness into account in his suspension set ups I mean I just never really about it especially in stock frame cars till now. Ron is an incredibly intelligent guy, I can't wait to start working on the full chassis we are doing on my car!


      JORDAN

    7. #327
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      Just a little update for my racing friends on something several of us have been working on this off season. Many of us that are trying to race our older muscle cars have had issues getting our triangulated four link rear suspensions to do something they weren't ever really designed to do...keep both rear tires planted when cornering hard. I have tried many band aids on Barney which all have helped a little, but none really solved the issue completely so I decided it was priority number one this off season. I'm tired of my rear wheel drive car lifting the inside rear tire in the air on corner entry.

      My first thought was to put a Watts link on the car to lower the rear roll center. The issue is with the lowered ride height, the very short upper control arms are at an extreme angle and this puts the roll center somewhere up around 18" high or so. A Watts link (or Panhard bar) is sometimes used to lower that roll center to a fixed height but what we found is that the axle housing also migrates left and right while the axle is articulating and if you try to hold the roll center in a fixed position, it puts the rear suspension in a bind.

      I first discovered this by doing a little demonstration on my rear axle which you will see in this video. The shocks, springs, and sway bar were disconnected, the axle is held at ride height with a jack and articulated to simulate body roll. You can see the axle migrates over a half inch each direction...no good...and the roll center is somewhere up around the trunk floor and it moves around as the axle articulates. Right after I did that I saw that Scott Wheeler posted pictures of his newly installed rear axle in his bare A body frame and he also had a Watts link frame in place, so I contacted him and asked him to do some additional testing for us with a camera running. I had him disconnect his springs, set his axle at ride height and articulate the housing under several scenarios. What we found was the Watts link bell crank had to be near the very top of the frame in order for the axle to articulate without bind. The idea behind adding a Watts is to not only lower and fix the rear roll center, but to also be able to adjust the roll center quickly to track conditions. This shows us that we just can't get the rear roll center where we want it without creating a bind given the constraints of a triangulated four link. We even took it one step further and disconnected the driver side upper arm to create a"Poor mans 3 link" to show that movement as well. Huge shout out and thanks to Scott for helping with this, the videos really help to show exactly what is going on. Also thanks to Aaron, Ramey Andrew and Ron for contributing to this discussion and helping to find a cure.

      Hopefully this visual demonstration will show others that are trying to help their four link suspensions work better what is going on under there...and help them find a solution as well.

      We are working on a new plan for Barney which will be revealed soon but we now know this...it will no longer be a four link setup for sure.

      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    8. #328
      Join Date
      Aug 2015
      Posts
      8
      Country Flag: United States
      So... Barney is getting a torque arm then???

      Jeremy

    9. #329
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      corona,ca.
      Posts
      1,078
      Country Flag: United States
      Scott Parkhurst used a fays2 on his wagon,and he never had any problems with bind with his.

      Very interested in what you come up with,i too have a watts in my chevelle but with no testing yet.
      72 chevelle.

    10. #330
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      "Any problems with bind"

      I have found this is actually pretty hard to discern or diagnose, hence the further testing we did. Will a watts on a triangulated 4 link function properly for average street driving? Sure... Will it still go around a corner at moderate speed and function properly...maybe. Will it be stiction free enough to maintain the same rear spring rate mid corner that it has when going straight?... Not a chance... So this is what you end up with.

      Say you have a 250# spring in the back at ride height on a straight, when you dive into that corner and the body rolls and starts to load up that outside rear tire...as the suspension starts to bind up...the spring rate goes up. How much it increases is hard to tell as each case can be different...that is what makes a setup like this so unpredictable. A total bind like you see in the first test Scott did puts the spring rate at infinite...like having a solid suspension under the car. A partial bind like you see in the second part of the video creates a variably increasing spring rate, the more the suspension binds under roll, the stiffer the spring rate gets. In other words, the harder you push the car the worse the back is going to get. the only way with that setup to completely eliminate stiction is to have the bell crank all the way up...which kind of defeats the purpose of the watts link in the first place...right?

      There are many other variables in this depending on the car's upper and lower control arm placement, some systems start out at a much better position than others, but in the end, the travel is the same. The rear axle will migrate left and right due to the design of the 4 arms.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    11. #331
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      corona,ca.
      Posts
      1,078
      Country Flag: United States
      One problem that was noted to me on the video is, the use of spherical bearings in the diff housing.
      There should be rubber in there.

      Not sure of what the lowers in the video have.

      I have a roto joint on the frame side of the lowers and uppers, 1le camaro rubber ones on the frame side.(i machined/welded my own arms.

      The concept of
      running a watts with a C4L was from the NASA American Iron Extreme road race
      series where it`s quite popular.
      Ie,94,97 mustangs.

      I dont know if you or scott have spoken with jim fay,or marc from sc&c.
      They have quite the experience with watts links in a c4link.
      Im no expert so please dont take it that way.
      I'll try to get a video of mine in action.
      I do remember hearing the propeller should be set close to the rc of those upper arms.
      Also one other purpose of the watts is to reduce side to side axle migration,not just for rc height.
      Im also guilty of this but scott needs to test his car together and running.once with one of the axle clamps off then with the whole works,and not just a bare frame.

      As i said not trying to sound like i know it all just some ideas,imput on this C4L setup with a watts link.
      Phil
      72 chevelle.

    12. #332
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      It's been a while since I've updated this thread...mainly because there hasn't been much to update on. Life has taken a front seat lately and Barney has been relinquished to the back seat for now, it's all good though...many updates are planned and in the works once my schedule relaxes a bit.

      I did make an upgrade to my crankcase ventilation setup which worked wonderfully, it's detailed here http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=54712 and I also added the Chad Ryker GoPro external mic mod just in time for my first time out on a big track in almost a year.

      Last Thursday I went to the SCCS Track Night in America event at the freshly repaved and reopened Heartland Park Topeka road course. What an awesome event...if there are any TNIAs near you, I highly recommend attending if you can. It's a great value mainly designed to get noobies acclimated to running on a road course but also gives veterans a place to play on the cheap as well. We got (3) 20 minute sessions in on course for $50...can't beat that.

      The car worked great, this was my first time on a road course since adding the locker, big rear springs, 18" wheels and of course sticky RE71s and the changes were noticed immediately. I did have to spend some time knocking the rust off the driver, and could use some more of that apparently after watching all my missed shifts in the video. I think my shift rail has finally reached the point of needing some attention, I seem to struggle to find both 3rd on an upshift and 4th on a downshift. Coming over the top of a blind Alpha 0 hill at 130 mph at end of front straight may have contributed to my missing of the 5/4 downshift a few times as well... :D



      The catch can worked awesome, the engine didn't use a drop of oil nor miss a beat and I LOVE the microphone mod... Check out the video of my last session and turn your speakers up..



      I spent the first couple of laps trying to keep up with my friend Keith...unsuccessfully, once he got away I settled down and got a few good smooth laps in. I have learned (at least on this slick new pavement anyway) that these RE71s are slick when cold...have about a 2-3 lap window of goodness...then slowly go away again as they overheat. I don't remember the Falkens having such a narrow window of goodness...but the extra fun laps of stickiness make up for that I'm certain.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car


    13. #333
      Join Date
      Sep 2004
      Location
      DFW, Texas
      Posts
      217
      Country Flag: United States
      Any update is a good update! Interesting read on the PCV problem, a few of the suggested links were familiar..

    14. #334
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
      Posts
      15,971
      Country Flag: United States
      Lance,

      I just read your whole thread. Quite the journey!!!

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    15. #335
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      It sure has been Andrew, thanks! And it continues even today!!

      Drove the car 113 miles around town yesterday running errands. It was in the low 90s, the AC ran all day, wife stayed comfortable (except for the getting in and out of the race seats part) and only used a little over a quarter tank of gas. Probably close to 25 MPG I figure. Not bad for a race car right?

      Heading to Midwest MuscleCar on Thursday, can't wait to see everyone and get some more track time in my grocery getter...
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    16. #336
      Join Date
      Aug 2011
      Location
      Granite City
      Posts
      114
      Hey Lance, I see your from KC.

      Just curious if you are planning to attend any of this years Hot Rod power tour? Reason I ask, is second stop of tour is Newton IA and they are doing an auto-x. I would love to tug your ear if you end up being there. This will be my first event to run.

      I have read through the Sticky in suspension forum, and WOW. what a plethora of great information im sure I will be referencing for next few years as I hope to get my feet wet in Auto-X and attempt to dial my car in. I feel like its gonna be a loooooong road lol.

    17. #337
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      I haven't planned on it as of yet even though I have several friends that are doing the Power Tour this year. While I probably won't make the Newton, IA PT stop...I "may" go up to Des Moines for Good Guys July 4th weekend...
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    18. #338
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      Finally figured out how to export my Midwest MuscleCar videos at Putnam from Solostorm with data overlayed on them. This first lap was my fastest lap of the weekend (1:23.684) chasing Keith Lamming... Check out the sustained cornering Gs and top speed on the front straight.

      https://youtu.be/g09r7HZAdks





      This lap was a 1:25.501 but if you look at the top speed on front straight it was about 7-8 mph slower because the car was fuel starving coming on to the straight. The rest of the segments were faster than the fast lap above.

      https://youtu.be/JjRT9c0Zyl8




      I did a little prep work on Barney this weekend and he is registered to race at Heartland Park Topeka next Sunday for the SCCA autocross there. Big plans are getting closer to happening with the pending sale of our house...hopefully will be able to show some parts soon...

      Meanwhile...we wait...
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    19. #339
      Join Date
      Feb 2012
      Location
      Central NY
      Posts
      240
      Country Flag: United States
      1.2g's in a G-body is awesome!!!!!

    20. #340
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      Just got back from CAM East where Aaron Oberle and I wheeled Barney all weekend. Here is my update post from facebook for those that don't do facebook...



      Finally caught up and have fully reflected on last weekend at CAM East. What a fun event... I know everyone has their own idea of what makes an event fun for them, this one just seems to hit 100% on all of mine. It's a great mix between a super fun and fast, yet still very technical course, a FANTASTIC group of attendees and people that put the event on, and just the right amount of fun mixed in yet still very competitive at the same time. Even though Aaron and I in Barney didn't have anything for the top drivers in our class...we gave the mid packers everything we had and by the end of the qualifying runs Sunday morning, I made it into the Challenge which was a first for me. I am so glad that I decided to go.

      It was very cool to see so many of my distant racing friends (family) again, it's amazing how even though you may not have seen someone for a year or so, you start right back where you left off the last time. You all are good peeps for sure!!

      Barney is wounded...but still left all he had out on the track. I have to say thanks to the Ron Sutton Race Technology tuned suspension and especially this weekend the RSRT locker which kept both rear wheels pulling all weekend long. Pretty sure there will be a few more of those installed in some other cars in the coming weeks. I worked course on corner 5 and there sure seemed to be a lot of mad posi units by the finish of every run. If anyone wants to know more about the locker, just let me know.

      Here are my last three (and fastest) runs from Sunday morning. The third was a 44.5XX which put me in 14th out of 28 cars I believe in class. Watching these back along with other driver's videos, I know there was a 43.XXX for us out there for sure...that just shows why the really good drivers are always at the tops of the charts.



      Can't wait to do it again, we'll be back locked and loaded ready for the fun and the competition this event provides.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

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