Holley EFI Users, Step Inside Please

[Garymac69]

I've looked at those manuals and searched around the Holley website and forums. The main TBI harness is documented but not the 2 x 4 TBI injector harness #558-206. Since this is TBI, the connection will not be Injector A = cylinder 1, Injector B = cylinder 2, etc. Thanks

[youngmuscle]

Derek,

I didnt want to start a new thread, cool that you have a rolling thread here.

You probably remember me, but Ill remind my specs anyways. 454, Holley HP MPFI with FAST dual synch and LS2 coils running sequential. t56 trans with 3.90 rear gears. Cam is a bit rough, xe284h (110 LSA, .574/.578 lift). Around 10:1 compression

I am having a few fine tuning issues. I figured its a bit harder since Im trying to daily drive with a 6 speed.
Issues:

1. In order to keep from having a lean cough under load (1200-1500 rpm), in my top 4 target AFR cells, the car needs about an 11.2 AFR to keep from stumbling under load (84-105 MAP). This seems too rich to me. I pulled some timing but didnt really seem to help (currently around 27 in that area). I try to cruise in 6th at about 1400 RPM to work. Works with 11.2, but maybe its just because of the cam? Any tips or advice here....

2. When I am shifting, especially from a stop, I have to clutch quite a bit or I get a lean cough. The reason is ( I think), because as im clutching and giving gas I have a low MAP and if I let off the clutch more abruptly the computer cant change the AFR and timing quickly enough and it coughs and stumbles. Its a little embarassing because I am either riding the clutch and revving or its stumbling. I dont want to lower the timing and enrich the AFR in my 1000-1500 rpm cruise cells. I played around a bit with acceleration enrichment by increasing the total slope 10 points, but didnt see a difference. Any ideas?

3. Is this lean cough the same as detonation? Sometimes it does sound like a knock. Sometimes it just runs better.... which may be due to gas quality etc. Anty Holley GErman tuners you kow of? lol. Im pretty confident I can figure it out, but she just doesnt run right on the autobahn. Car doesnt want to cruise over 100mph, like it doesnt have power. Ill have to datalog it and figure that out seperately though.

Thanks Derik, I plan to shift some business your way when the time comes to upgrade. The guy I bought my HP from was great, but no tech support. And Danny Cabral over at Holley forums can be a bit mean at times haha. May procharge this winter...

-Paul

[Derek@ModernSpeed]

Derek,

I didnt want to start a new thread, cool that you have a rolling thread here.

You probably remember me, but Ill remind my specs anyways. 454, Holley HP MPFI with FAST dual synch and LS2 coils running sequential. t56 trans with 3.90 rear gears. Cam is a bit rough, xe284h (110 LSA, .574/.578 lift). Around 10:1 compression

I am having a few fine tuning issues. I figured its a bit harder since Im trying to daily drive with a 6 speed.
Issues:

1. In order to keep from having a lean cough under load (1200-1500 rpm), in my top 4 target AFR cells, the car needs about an 11.2 AFR to keep from stumbling under load (84-105 MAP). This seems too rich to me. I pulled some timing but didnt really seem to help (currently around 27 in that area). I try to cruise in 6th at about 1400 RPM to work. Works with 11.2, but maybe its just because of the cam? Any tips or advice here....

2. When I am shifting, especially from a stop, I have to clutch quite a bit or I get a lean cough. The reason is ( I think), because as im clutching and giving gas I have a low MAP and if I let off the clutch more abruptly the computer cant change the AFR and timing quickly enough and it coughs and stumbles. Its a little embarassing because I am either riding the clutch and revving or its stumbling. I dont want to lower the timing and enrich the AFR in my 1000-1500 rpm cruise cells. I played around a bit with acceleration enrichment by increasing the total slope 10 points, but didnt see a difference. Any ideas?

3. Is this lean cough the same as detonation? Sometimes it does sound like a knock. Sometimes it just runs better.... which may be due to gas quality etc. Anty Holley GErman tuners you kow of? lol. Im pretty confident I can figure it out, but she just doesnt run right on the autobahn. Car doesnt want to cruise over 100mph, like it doesnt have power. Ill have to datalog it and figure that out seperately though.

Thanks Derik, I plan to shift some business your way when the time comes to upgrade. The guy I bought my HP from was great, but no tech support. And Danny Cabral over at Holley forums can be a bit mean at times haha. May procharge this winter...

-Paul

11.2 @ WOT is way off base for a N/A Engine on Gas ( I assume you are on pump gas). It should be 12.8-13.3 AFR. So before we get to far into this, do you have a data log(s), and a matching global folder? That would be great for trouble shooting your issue(s). I recall the cam is decent, but how much vacuum, or what KPa is it idling at? What injectors are you running, and what base fuel pressure?0

[youngmuscle]

Derek,

Thanks for the response. Ill get you a datalog as soon as I can.

My vaccuum with the carb was about 9", now it idles at about 70-77kPa (a little high?) at about 800 RPM. My injectors are 42lb/hr and I have it set at 43psi, with vacuum maybe 39 at idle.

Ive put maybe a few thousand miles on it in a short period of time (hour of driving a day). My fuel mileage even with the 6 speed is under 10 which I know is also off considering sequential injection and mostly cruise with leaner AFR's and timing. My base learning table stays at about -36 in most of the cells, essentially saying its too rich, but, like I said if I lean it out, she coughs all over the polace under load or acceleration. Maybe that also helps paint the picture. Ill try and post a pic of a datalog, if not Ill email it (assuming "[email protected]")

Thanks!
Paul

[carbuff]

Instead of targeting such a rich condition, have you tried adjusting the Acceleration Enrichment tables? I think you need to work on those for your lean couch. I had similar issues when I first starting working on mine, and those tables helped a lot. You may also want to look at the Holley tech forums. I found a great post there by searching that explained how those AE tables related to different adjustments you can make on a carb (power valves, accelerator pumps, etc).

Good luck! I really like my Holley now that I have it setup, although I still haven't had it on a dyno for tuning yet...

[youngmuscle]

Bryan,

That would be awesome, Ill look over at Holley. Thinking of it as carb would certainly help understand it. Ive posted this issue over at Holley as well and Danny Cabral is giving some advice. He did tell me to wait until I get the base figured out until I touch the acceleration enrichment. I did find one issue that Danny thought of, Ill just quote him here:

"Acceleration Enrichment can't be tuned until the Base Fuel Table is well tuned.
If you have a momentary lean spike, on light throttle acceleration, read below:
What are your AE vs TPS/MAP RoC Blanking values (in Fuel Modifiers/Fuel Control)?
If they're 15 & 7, those are the old values from the V1 firmware.
Change the AE vs TPS RoC Blanking value to 7 or 8.
Change the AE vs MAP RoC Blanking value to 4 or 5."

I did indeed have the old settings somehow, so Id check your as well to make sure your is the newer setting. I have no idea what it changes lol, still learning.

I dont think changing acceleration enrichment will change my lean cough scenario in 6th gear though. Cruising in 6th at 1400 RPM puts me at about 11.5-11.2 AFR (shouldnt be that rich), and if I hit a hill and lightly throttle up while lugging 6th she'll still cough sometimes. Could just be my cam I guess but I dont think so, thats a really rich AFR. I have a few things Im going to try today (fix my IAC issue, confirm my inductive delay setting, and reset some of my learn tables), see how that helps. I really love the system as well. The issues arent Holleys, its just me tuning myself and in the process becoming a better Hot Rodder. Im learning every day.

Derek, I sent you an email with 2 datalogs, but Im not sure if those files worked for you or if it was the wrong email. Just let me know bud.

Thanks,
Paul

[sccacuda]

Paul,

What resolution are you using for your tables? With a big cam, it helps to make higher resolutions (more tables) for your cells in the idle and tip in rpm range. Basically your decreasing the rpm difference between cells and are able to tune each one more accurately, either yourself or let it. We've made some big cams idle well, and tip in response very good by doing this. Previously on different controllers without the cell resolution capabilities of the Holley, Alpha-N was necessary.

[GRNOVA]

Good morning,
First off information in this thread is great,thanks Derek for monitoring this. First off my build is a 65 Nova. 408,2.8Lkennebell,DBW, 90 mm throttle body, paddle shifted 4l80e controlled by compushift II, PCS pushbutton shifter all powered by Infinitywire(ISIS).
I saw a lot of information about the use of all the connectors, but with my set up which ones do I actually use and where do they go?
On the Kennebell where does the MAT go, and since I am running DBW, I'm guessing that the IAC is not used or do I by an adapter harness of some sort.
And when fuel pressure connector just tap into the fuel linein front of rail?
And then the CTS on the drivers side head?
When I ordered a aux harness for the O2 sensor which one?
Sorry for the novice questions but just getting started.

Here is a shot of progress so far

[carbuff]

Paul,

Danny is definitely a great resource, I've read a ton of the threads over there in which he had replied. Yes, I have my Blanking values correct, I've seen that same warning from him there as well. Mine are set at 9 and 5.

When they say to not touch the AE tables until you have the Base Table tuned, I agree with that. My approach to that (right or wrong, like you I'm learning) was to set up my Target AFR tables to where I wanted them, and then to just run the engine and hit as many of them as I could while sitting in the garage. Obviously it's impossible to hit all of the load conditions, but I could get the most basic table positions in place. Then drive the car, trying to hit a few also. Yes, you may get some 'coughs' as you describe. When I felt that I had a good sampling of runs, I transferred the learned table to the base. I did this a couple of times. The learned table will quickly get to a point in which you don't have very large percentage changes after a couple of runs.

That's when I started working on the AE tables. I could be sitting still and blip the throttle and get a stumble. Watching the datalogger, I was getting a very lean spike with a quick throttle blip. I slowly started adjusting the AE tables to clear that up. I also read a lot of the posts on the Holley forum about which tables to adjust for these cases.

My car is definitely not fine-tuned, as I don't have a local tuner with much Holley experience. But I've been able to get the car to a point where it drives very well not with my limited adjusting. I've never had the high-load cough you are experiencing, but I was able to tune out some slight stumbles under heavy load.

On the Holley site there is a reference to a tuning guide on the Edelbrock site which covers both fuel AFR as well as Spark timing. I found that to be helpful reading. See if you can find the link to that document if you haven't already.

Good luck! Learning how to tweak this system is fun, and relatively safe as long as you move in slow increments towards your goal.

[Derek@ModernSpeed]

Derek,

Thanks for the response. Ill get you a datalog as soon as I can.

My vaccuum with the carb was about 9", now it idles at about 70-77kPa (a little high?) at about 800 RPM. My injectors are 42lb/hr and I have it set at 43psi, with vacuum maybe 39 at idle.

Ive put maybe a few thousand miles on it in a short period of time (hour of driving a day). My fuel mileage even with the 6 speed is under 10 which I know is also off considering sequential injection and mostly cruise with leaner AFR's and timing. My base learning table stays at about -36 in most of the cells, essentially saying its too rich, but, like I said if I lean it out, she coughs all over the polace under load or acceleration. Maybe that also helps paint the picture. Ill try and post a pic of a datalog, if not Ill email it (assuming "[email protected]")

Thanks!
Paul

Well first thing, I did not receive an email, so please resend the files to [email protected] Next, you do NOT want to adjust the AE settings until the base fuel map is tuned correctly. We know that is certainly not tuned as it's needing 11.2:1 to cruise. What injectors (brand/part number) are you using, and what injector off times did you use in your base tune? Lets say you have an LS3 injector, and use the holley drop down injector data. You could very well be cutting the injector off, and only getting half the fuel your engine needs. So your commanded AFR has to be much richer to compensate. Just one of many possibilities. Please resend your complete global folder in a zip format, and a matching data log. I'll be happy to take a look.

[Derek@ModernSpeed]

Good morning,
First off information in this thread is great,thanks Derek for monitoring this. First off my build is a 65 Nova. 408,2.8Lkennebell,DBW, 90 mm throttle body, paddle shifted 4l80e controlled by compushift II, PCS pushbutton shifter all powered by Infinitywire(ISIS).
I saw a lot of information about the use of all the connectors, but with my set up which ones do I actually use and where do they go?
On the Kennebell where does the MAT go, and since I am running DBW, I'm guessing that the IAC is not used or do I by an adapter harness of some sort.
And when fuel pressure connector just tap into the fuel linein front of rail?
And then the CTS on the drivers side head?
When I ordered a aux harness for the O2 sensor which one?
Sorry for the novice questions but just getting started.

Here is a shot of progress so far

I would love to tell you to install the MAT in the factory postion, however I've never installed a KB blower, and they may want you to measure the IAT's in the manifold. Best bet on that is to call their tech service. You will not have an IAC, as the DBW throttle body will serve as your IAC. You will get your fuel pressure reading from a rail or port on the regulator. Your main harness should reach the CTS on the driverside head. J2A (558-401) is the input harness pre-terminated for the second wideband. Give me a call tomorrow if you would like to order any parts. I'm giving 20% off SRP until Dec. 31. However on 11-30-14 there is a substantial price increase on all Holley branded products.

[Garymac69]

Derek, For my EFI install, I have the option of locating the CTS in my aluminum heads or at the intake thermostat fitting. What is the recommended location?

Also, do you have a recommendation for a grommet for the main harness through the firewall?

Thanks

[another69]

Can the tach signal for the Holley ECU be shared with an Aeromotive pwm fuel pump speed controller? Aeromotive wants the signal from the MSD CD box to go directly to the FPSC and then split off to the tach. Can I just tie the signal to the Holley ECU in at the FPSC or is there a potential for some kind of interference?

[mightymonte]

I just purchased Holley HP kit 550-601 for my Stealth Ram project. My project is going into a 1983 Monte Carlo SS with a 383. I have a couple of questions.

I am looking at using a dual sync distributor. I would like to use the Mallory/Accel dual sync distributor if it is compatible. The distributor is part # 77100 in both brands. Is this distributor compatible with the system?

I also would like to run the 99-04 corvette style fuel return. The return system and fuel pressure regulator is built into the filter. WIX 33737. I would also use a regulator at the fuel rail and not totally depend on the filter regulator if necessary. This would allow me to use the existing lines (feed and vent) and not be obligated to run a new line for return. It would also make for less places to leak and its clean.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/LS1-Fu...Kit,41791.html

The inlet side of this filter/regulator is the end with the (2) male port tubes. The larger 3/8" tube is the pressure inlet from the pump. The smaller 5/16" tube is the return to the tank. The female side of the filter assembly utilizes the male 'snap' in fitting. This is the outlet side of the filter for the line to the fuel rail of the engine.

I see a lot of guys using this for LS swaps so I don't see why this wouldn't work but this was made for LS series stuff and not Holley stuff.

[andrewb70]

I just purchased Holley HP kit 550-601 for my Stealth Ram project. My project is going into a 1983 Monte Carlo SS with a 383. I have a couple of questions.

I am looking at using a dual sync distributor. I would like to use the Mallory/Accel dual sync distributor if it is compatible. The distributor is part # 77100 in both brands. Is this distributor compatible with the system?

I also would like to run the 99-04 corvette style fuel return. The return system and fuel pressure regulator is built into the filter. WIX 33737. I would also use a regulator at the fuel rail and not totally depend on the filter regulator if necessary. This would allow me to use the existing lines (feed and vent) and not be obligated to run a new line for return. It would also make for less places to leak and its clean.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/LS1-Fu...Kit,41791.html

The inlet side of this filter/regulator is the end with the (2) male port tubes. The larger 3/8" tube is the pressure inlet from the pump. The smaller 5/16" tube is the return to the tank. The female side of the filter assembly utilizes the male 'snap' in fitting. This is the outlet side of the filter for the line to the fuel rail of the engine.

I see a lot of guys using this for LS swaps so I don't see why this wouldn't work but this was made for LS series stuff and not Holley stuff.

I would not go with the Corvette fuel system with the Stealth Ram. There is already a regulator nicely mounted on the rail. Use it and run a return line back to the tank. Make sure you either use PTFE braided hose or use as much hard line as possible with only short runs of rubber braided hose.

Andrew

[Derek@ModernSpeed]

Derek, For my EFI install, I have the option of locating the CTS in my aluminum heads or at the intake thermostat fitting. What is the recommended location?

Also, do you have a recommendation for a grommet for the main harness through the firewall?

Thanks

Mount the CTS in the head. Earl's used to make some nice grommets. Not sure if they still have them or not.

Can the tach signal for the Holley ECU be shared with an Aeromotive pwm fuel pump speed controller? Aeromotive wants the signal from the MSD CD box to go directly to the FPSC and then split off to the tach. Can I just tie the signal to the Holley ECU in at the FPSC or is there a potential for some kind of interference?

That would be a question for Holley Tech Service. I've never had that question lol

[lxmodguy]

Can the tach signal for the Holley ECU be shared with an Aeromotive pwm fuel pump speed controller? Aeromotive wants the signal from the MSD CD box to go directly to the FPSC and then split off to the tach. Can I just tie the signal to the Holley ECU in at the FPSC or is there a potential for some kind of interference?

Which holley ECM are you running? tack signal should split either way, just curious. Why not just configure one of the outputs to provide tack signal

[GRNOVA]

Can the tach signal for the Holley ECU be shared with an Aeromotive pwm fuel pump speed controller? Aeromotive wants the signal from the MSD CD box to go directly to the FPSC and then split off to the tach. Can I just tie the signal to the Holley ECU in at the FPSC or is there a potential for some kind of interference?

That is exactly what I did with my Aeromotive controller, also shared it with my campushift II.

[another69]

I'm running the Terminator system, so basically the HP computer (will be using as an HP to run an LS in the future).

Can you configure an output as a tach signal? If there is no problem tying the tach, Aeromotive FPSC, and Holley ECU all to the MSD tach output then I am happy to do that.

[andrewb70]

I'm running the Terminator system, so basically the HP computer (will be using as an HP to run an LS in the future).

Can you configure an output as a tach signal? If there is no problem tying the tach, Aeromotive FPSC, and Holley ECU all to the MSD tach output then I am happy to do that.

I would be surprised if there isn't already a dedicated "tach out" wire in your harness, so you shouldn't need to burn an output just for that.

Andrew