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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Waterloo, Ia
      Posts
      1,409

      Poncho powered pro touring/auto x cars, check in!

      Hey guys. Just wondering if anyone here is running a traditional Pontiac powered pro-touring/auto x car and what their powertrain consists of? What are your likes and dislikes about the old traditional Pontiac etc? Does it make adequite power? Or do you hate it and cant wait to go LSx? Show off your pontiac powered pro touring car and brag here....

      -Nick
      -1967 GTO I drive and race
      -Build threads:
      -http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=615847&page=23
      -https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...project-thread



    2. #2
      Join Date
      Jun 2008
      Location
      Greenwood, Indiana
      Posts
      271
      Country Flag: United States

      Poncho powered pro touring/auto x cars, check in!

      I'm running a Pontiac 400 stroked to a 468. I switched to a built 700r4 and a moser 12 bolt. I love it but in my opinion there should be a separate class for traditional iron powered cars. It's hard to compete with an aluminum block dry sump car. I'm putting down 540hp and 600tq at the crank.

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Jul 2006
      Location
      Hackettstown, NJ
      Posts
      1,026
      This one is based on a 455/ T56 combo
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...S-FINALLY-DONE!!

      Its a beast and awesome. plenty of power. Been building poncho's for years. Like anything, they have their quirks which you engineer creative solutions. Aftermarket is decent w/ some very impressive options. Never would think about it or will drop a chevy motor in my T/A. If you want to do that get a camaro and join the see of the jones'. any old iron can be made to compete with the modern stuff, just economics.

      the gen 4 chevy motors are tough to beat , but I enjoy my classics. The LS swap to PT cars is the same as the old sbc to the street rod world. not exciting and a whore. Every one has done the swap volvos, bmws, old iron, lawnmover ect. bla.

      building a '56 olds and guess what...no LS, just modified 1956 324 ci Oldsmobile mill.

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Jun 2007
      Location
      Easley, SC
      Posts
      249
      Country Flag: United States
      My Formula 400 still has an iron block Poncho w/ Butler prepped aluminum Edelbrock heads, and a Richmond 5-speed. Makes around 450 or so and is fun to drive. I really like the torque band when autocrossing. I can use 2nd gear and it pulls pretty well at all rpm's. That's about it for what I like (Sorry Pontiac guys !).

      I don't like the fuel economy, the carb, the leaks, the size and weight, the cost, or working on it. I am really considering an LS swap this winter. I've spent some time w/ LS powered cars and worked on these engines, and the popularity is well earned. Heck, if I price an EFI kit for my Pontiac, it costs darn near what an whole LS engine does !!

      I figure if I sell my 400 and tranny and buy a pull-out LS / 6-speed, my swap cost won't be too bad at all, AND, I could actually afford to drive it !

      EDIT 10/18/2013 - I couldn't actually make myself swap the Pontiac drivetrain out of an original Formula 400, so I'm currently building a '64 tempest w/ LS power that will be done soon.

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      David

      Current rides:
      1970 Firebird FORMULA 400
      1964 Pontiac Tempest
      1986 Mustang LX 5.0 coupe

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      Ca
      Posts
      201
      Country Flag: United States
      Name:  firebird4.jpg
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      My 67 firebird has a 400 (406) with kauffman heads and a FAST EZ-EFI infront of a T56 and a 12 bolt. Plenty of power for what we all like to do.
      Durring the build, I got soo much crap from people b/c I didn't go with an LS. Yes it would of been cheaper, better and not leak oil... But, I like to be different. There are way too many pro-touring cars out there with LS's its hard to keep up anyways. In my mind I like to think: Its a 60's car! go ahead and make some noise, leak some oil, burn some gas and have fun! Thats what hot rodding is all about.

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Posts
      41
      Country Flag: United States
      Running a mildly built 400 out of a 78 formula 400 firebird. Not sure exactly what it has for a cam. Has small chamber 6x heads and supose to be .040 and flat tops. Bought the motor used and told that's what it had. Confimed the flat tops and a little lump at idle. Compression tested it and pretty even 168 psi on all 8. Guessing about 8.5:1 compression. Pulls pretty darn good. Going to run it for a while. Eventually want a 6 speed so I can get the hwy RPMs down and get some 3.73's in place of the 3.23's to make it launch better and ease up on the clutch. Still deciding on suspension but really like what Andrewb did on his 70 GTO and may duplicate it. It seems to work really well.

      Eric

      "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." Winston Churchill

      70 LeMans Sport Convertible. Mildly built 1978 W72 400 aka T/A 6.6, Eddlebrock RPM intake, Demon 750 Factory Munci 3 Speed with Hurst, Factory Safety Track (Posi).

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Oct 2004
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      17
      Here's my 67. 2 1/2 year build 455 with all the PT goodies. Updates coming soon. New Wheels that are killer.

      http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...7_pontiac_gto/
      She was featured in HPP.

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    8. #8
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Waterloo, Ia
      Posts
      1,409
      Quote Originally Posted by 69CamaroPT View Post
      Here's my 67. 2 1/2 year build 455 with all the PT goodies. Updates coming soon. New Wheels that are killer.

      http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...7_pontiac_gto/
      She was featured in HPP.

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      Hey Nice color! Did Prodigy Customs build that car? I ordered a 9" from Frank and I think he sent me a few shots of it detailing some wheel backspacing you used, while it was under construction. Ive got one the same color!

      -Nick
      -1967 GTO I drive and race
      -Build threads:
      -http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=615847&page=23
      -https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...project-thread


    9. #9
      Join Date
      Jan 2005
      Location
      Netherlands
      Posts
      1,012
      I gues im at the for front what poncho power has to offer. brand spanking new 475ci aluminium all pontiac ia II block/ 4 inch stroke / 4.35 bore / 3.40cfm edelb heads / big valves / custom BRC pistons / Vari-Lift rokkersystem / ratio1.18 below 3000/ 1.67 above / Victoor EFI manifold/ titanium valves / termal coated cumbustion chambers and valves / and pistons .including teflon coating outside and inside.. Forged crank REM treated / 6.8 eagle rem treated rods/ Dry sump system stage 5 no hoses/ 10.5 compression/730hp 700 lbs ftq /, Torque curve 5000 rpm .max rpm 7300... bring on the LS7!!!!!!!!!!!...



      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...-One-quot-quot

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Oct 2004
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      17
      Yes, Frank did paint and suspension. Corvette Masters in Orlando did the motor, trans and exhaust setup. The car turned out awesome.Name:  IMG_7391.jpg
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    11. #11
      Join Date
      Jun 2007
      Location
      Fort Myers, FL
      Posts
      1,003
      That is one sexy motor
      Chris Smock aka Blazed67
      1967 Firebird Convertible- Tough Luck- never ending
      2003 VW Jetta Wagon 1.8T- the new DD
      2006 Suzuki SV1000R- greatly missed

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Posts
      215
      Country Flag: Afghanistan
      Mine is slowly coming together right now. Engine is done. With the frame being boxed and POR-15 coated in a few weeks. I went for a mish-mash of Global West,SPC,Edelbrock etc suspension pieces I put together over a number of years of saving.

      428 +.030 (440)
      Wiseco custom flat tops
      Zero Deck
      Eagle 6.625 rods
      10/10 crank
      Race bearings
      Melling MS54D pump
      RPM intake.
      72cc E-heads
      .051" Cometic Head gaskets
      Comp Custom Hyd "Extreme Street" lobes 248/254 @.050 .619/.639 lift w/ 1.65's
      Crower Stainless 1.65 rockers
      Mega brace
      11.04:1 on pump gas
      Ferra valves
      Canton 15-452 road race pan, pickup, and windage diamond stripper
      My custom built 1000 HP annular
      MSD Drop-in & Blaster 2


      Going into a 1967 Pontiac Lemans Hardtop coupe I've owned since highschool.

      Global West springs 680# front
      SPC hollow front bar
      SPC rear bar with links
      SPC lower control arms
      Global West upper control arms
      First run C6 Corvette spindles adapted for A-bodies
      KORE3 C6 Z06 front calipers/stainless lines/ NAPA non-cross drilled rotors
      LG Motorsports front brake ducting kit
      18x9 front wheels with 255/40/18 michelins
      18x10 rear wheels (5.67BS) 285/35/18 Continentals

      All along with varied stacked plate coolers for transmission,oil, and powersteering etc.

      Once I get all this put together and dialed in I will chime back in.




      http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...3&d=1196745091

      http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...4&d=1165603448

      http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...0&d=1165603286

      It looks like hell after being recovered from being stolen I realize. It will be a rat-rod with modern underpinnings haha! As far as "adequate power" it will make in excess of 550HP and similar torque numbers. At this point in hot rodding tech horspower is easy to come by with modern heads being released by varied vendors for legacy Pontiacs and LS and soon LT1 engines. A true 350HP street car already has too much power than can be put down on the road. Much less my own 550HP Pontiac or the over the top 600-750HP LSx naturally aspirated or boosted engines. I could boost mine and make another 200HP with lower compression heads no problem. But then the car would be even more uncontrollable as it is. At this point it's less about power and torque and more about seat time behind the wheel to get faster. Just my opinion.
      Last edited by hectore3; 11-08-2012 at 06:25 AM. Reason: Clarification

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Jan 2009
      Location
      NYC
      Posts
      120
      im in all business no chrome
      Attached Images Attached Images      
      yes it does have positraction

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Waterloo, Ia
      Posts
      1,409
      edit
      -Nick
      -1967 GTO I drive and race
      -Build threads:
      -http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=615847&page=23
      -https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...project-thread


    15. #15
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Waterloo, Ia
      Posts
      1,409
      Quote Originally Posted by 69CamaroPT View Post
      Here's my 67. 2 1/2 year build 455 with all the PT goodies. Updates coming soon. New Wheels that are killer.

      http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...7_pontiac_gto/
      She was featured in HPP.

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Views: 9700
Size:  186.4 KB
      Did you have to do any frame/wheel well mods to fit the wheel/tire package? What size wheels/tires are on there? Do you have any side shots?
      -Nick
      -1967 GTO I drive and race
      -Build threads:
      -http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=615847&page=23
      -https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...project-thread


    16. #16
      Join Date
      Jan 2007
      Location
      Port Orchard, WA
      Posts
      497
      Country Flag: United States
      I'm in, 400 stroke to 461.


    17. #17
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Waterloo, Ia
      Posts
      1,409
      TTT for some more! There seems to be a surge of Pontiac's lately!
      -Nick
      -1967 GTO I drive and race
      -Build threads:
      -http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=615847&page=23
      -https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...project-thread


    18. #18
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      Atlanta
      Posts
      431
      Country Flag: United States
      Mine is running the numbers matching 350 block but with Pacific Performance Racing's stroker kit, and Kauffman heads. With a TKO600 it pulled down 337hp & 375tq at the rear wheels last summer. I drive it daily and love it. If it ever blows up, maybe I'd do an LS, but I don't know.

    19. #19
      Join Date
      Dec 2005
      Location
      Birmingham, AL
      Posts
      3,356
      Country Flag: United States
      My Firebird has an LS3 418 on the engine stand. The g8 gxp had the ls3 so I think the poncho purists will agree it is Pontiac powered.
      Stephen

    20. #20
      Join Date
      Oct 2005
      Location
      Toronto
      Posts
      1,465
      I can tell you that I've had fun with my Poncho power however the economics """""SUCK""""".

      To compete with a serious pro-touring car and drive it like it was stolen will cost a fortune... I've had 461's, 473's (and a 535ci IA II that I sold before even attempting to fire) all of which are sold off at this point. The Killer in all of this is when the light bulb goes on in your head and you realize you're flogging a dead horse you'll be so upside down it's not even funny. Try 25K for 5K on the last motor (a 473CI CV-1) with less than 2,000 miles on it as a real life example....

      Poncho's cars are gorgeous,,, and if your playing with drag racing,,, or the wax the paint off your trunk scene you'll do great with Poncho Power. If you're building a real Pro-touring car to compete, drive distances to events and generally plan to beat like an evil headed step child,,,, there is no option but an LS in my opinion after walking both sides of the street for multiple years. I've had multiple Poncho motors built and none could hold up to the abuse of the combination of auto cross, road course and long haul without failure in one way or another... To get a poncho to put out the power is not hard,,,, they just can't hold up to the sustained rev's without breaking the bank on super exotic aftermarket All Pontiac combos...
      Carbon Kustoms Limited
      A.K.A. Albert from Toronto

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