Proforged suspension parts? Good/bad?

[Samckitt]

What the subject says, good/bad stuff?

[Rod]

I know that I'm using there Tall Upper ball joint on a first gen camaro and have put it through the paces on larger tracks at well into the hundreds of MPH and on the little tracks like AutoX, SCCA, and Goodguys peanut and they have held up very well, I think David Pozzi did some testing on them look at his website

[David Pozzi]

We have two years on the ball joints on Deanna's Camaro & they show no wear. Mary's car has their steering linkage with a year on it but we only have a little less than a year in her ball joints. No issues. I have geometry tests on my web page for 1st & 2nd gens.

[Jameson]

I spoke on the phone for a Hr to a particular suspension company last week that made me decide to send my order of Proforged uppers and lowers back and go with Howe balljoints. Scot if you PM me I will go into more detail.

[David Pozzi]

The Howe parts are very nice, plus rebuildable, but more expensive.

[Proforged]

I spoke on the phone for a Hr to a particular suspension company last week that made me decide to send my order of Proforged uppers and lowers back and go with Howe balljoints. Scot if you PM me I will go into more detail.

Would you mind posting it up for everyone to read?

I'm proud of the materials we use, the design we have, and the processes we go through to make our ball joints. Almost every set of tubular control arms that gets sold on this forum runs our ball joints - we supply most of the manufacturers in the musclecar industry. The engineers from each of those companies run our ball joints on their personal vehicles, driving them in autocross events on the weekends and putting thousands of hard street miles on in between. They drive their families around on our products.

I've never heard of one of our ball joints failing on a musclecar. In fact, we've never even received a warranty claim for wear, failure, or anything else, for that matter. We had one guy break an S10 ball joint once - I read on the forum later that he was glad it failed going at a slow speed, because he was hopping the truck at 65 mph on the highway a few minutes before. The truck was on airbags and didn't have limiting straps - that will break any ball joint on earth.

I have nothing bad to say about Howe ball joints - they're nice units. I happen to prefer our boot design to theirs. The other main difference is that theirs is rebuildable. For most customers, a rebuildable ball joint won't be necessary - because our ball joint will usually outlast the life of the car it goes on.

Anyways, I'd really like to hear the reasons why you decided to return your product - if there's anything we can incorporate into the design to make it better, I'd like to know about it.

I'll make you an offer. PM me and I'll send you a set of our uppers and lowers, free of charge. Put them on the car and report back here if you have a problem.

And if a few years go by and you're still happy with them, it would be great to hear that, too.

[UMI Tech]

Absolutely stellar customer service from Zack right there.

[Rod]

I'll make you an offer. PM me and I'll send you a set of our uppers and lowers, free of charge. Put them on the car and report back here if you have a problem.

And if a few years go by and you're still happy with them, it would be great to hear that, too.

There you go!! let the parts talk for you

[gak68]

I just ordered up all my front steering components from them last week. They came in two days and it seems like top quality stuff.

[SLO_Z28]

So I looked into ProForged a lot a few months ago (mostly because I have a financial interest in them) and they manufacture a top quality part. I wouldn't hesitate to run them on even the most hardcore wheel to wheel race car.

That said I have Howe tall low friction ball joints and they are awesome, but its a pain in the ass to check them, and I'm really not sure if the low friction part really matters or not. Maybe Zack could get one of his tech guys to chime in on that?

[79-TA]

I, like others in this thread, run the pro-forged 0.5" tall upper ball joints and I have no complaints.

[Proforged]

So I looked into ProForged a lot a few months ago (mostly because I have a financial interest in them) and they manufacture a top quality part. I wouldn't hesitate to run them on even the most hardcore wheel to wheel race car.

That said I have Howe tall low friction ball joints and they are awesome, but its a pain in the ass to check them, and I'm really not sure if the low friction part really matters or not. Maybe Zack could get one of his tech guys to chime in on that?

James,

For 99% of enthusiasts, a low friction ball joint will not probably make a difference. The breaking torque of a "standard" ball joint may feel like a lot by hand, but with the weight of a vehicle on it, it is really quite small. If you went with all low-friction components (tie rods, center link, idler arm, pitman arm, ball joints), they all would probably add up to something detectable - but the ball joints alone, I doubt anyone could tell the difference.

A ball joint like ours uses a spring in the seat to control the tightness of the joint. Some circle track companies are selling "low friction" versions of this type of ball joint - it uses a weaker spring to achieve lower friction. The problem is that you're basically buying a half-worn ball joint. We don't really think that's a great way of accomplishing it. Note that this doesn't apply to Howe's version, which is a springless design - they machine their balls and cups to a tight tolerance, and then make the cap/cup adjustable to allow for wear compensation. The downside of this type of joint - besides the cost - is that it takes more time and expertise to check for wear and adjust it out.

Also, I was curious what your financial interest in Proforged was? Are you secretly sending us money that I don't know about?

Anyways, thanks for the kind words about our products!

[Samckitt]

Hey I started the thread, how about some free ones for me.... LOL.


Really though, the rebuildable ones from Howe or Moog are overkill for me. I want to put the taller ones on the bottom & top of the Monte. I think i am going to order the Proforged ones soon.

[Marcus SC&C]

There`s not really a lot to say here that isn`t obvious. ProForged ball joints are stock OE type ball joints made in a factory in Taiwan and marketed under the ProForged name. They`ve made some of them taller,copying our work and our years of R&D without even knowing why they were doing it. That said I (grudgingly) think they`re among the better OE type replacement parts currently on the market. Despite having pivot balls and races much smaller than even stock parts they seem to hold up fine. Saddly parts from once trusted companys like Moog and NAPA are not what they once were. We do use the ProForged uppers in our Street Strip drag race package where we do not expect massive side loading and the taller pins add a bit of geometry improvement and droop travel.
Please let`s not try and compare them to Howe ball joints,which are in a completely different class. They have become the standard by which all other ball joints are measured in serious racing circles. They are the number one choice when careers,millions of dollars and lives are on the line. They are made by Howe Racing in Michigan,USA, by American citizens who speak english and they are made of 100% American materials. They are made as well as ball joints can be made with current technology. They cost a few dollars more than foreign made OE type parts. They`re smooth and low friction because they are made to very precise tolerances. A ball joint stud bouncing on a spring is not precise, it`s a tiny pogo stick. Please. The Howe ball joints lifespan has been shown in severe racing and military use to exceed that of OE ball joints by an average of 5 times. They are adjustable but,as we sell them, they come preadjusted and do not need to be adjusted again,nor should they be, until vertical endplay is encountered. We have some with over 150,000 all weather street miles that still have not worn through the low friction coatings yet, let alone developed end play. In short, their life span is longer than most of ours. If you live long enough to need to adjust them it`s childs play and takes seconds. It`s done without removing them from the vehicle. If you can`t handle that,please put down the tools and step away from the vehicle. ;)
David Pozzi,to be fair you might also want to mention that you and Mary have been running Howe tall ball joints, from SC&C, for many years now. It`s got to be what, 6 or 7 years? How many wins do you two suppose you`ve had with them over the years? It`s been mentioned here before once or twice and in Camaro Performers, but I think it bears repeating. I`m just sayin... Thanks, Mark SC&C

[Samckitt]

Convinced me just by saying "made in Michigan, by American citizens that speak English"

Thanks Mark.

[David Pozzi]

The Howe are excellent & we only had to adjust up the RF once due to wear after a couple of years of running. Those Goodguys autocrosses are hard on the right front. The balls on the Howe are larger than any other ball joint and have no grooves & I suppose that contributes to the extended life. They are more costly though & the Proforged units do look good after a year, so they are a viable lower cost alternative.

[SLO_Z28]

OE type ball joints made in a factory in Taiwan and marketed under the ProForged name.

That's where my financial interest in them comes from. For the record I didn't thread crap THIS one...


I will also say that some of the complete garbage that American companies are putting out(no one in this thread) means that made in Taiwan isn't such a bad thing anymore.

[Jameson]

Would you mind posting it up for everyone to read?

I'm proud of the materials we use, the design we have, and the processes we go through to make our ball joints. Almost every set of tubular control arms that gets sold on this forum runs our ball joints - we supply most of the manufacturers in the musclecar industry. The engineers from each of those companies run our ball joints on their personal vehicles, driving them in autocross events on the weekends and putting thousands of hard street miles on in between. They drive their families around on our products.

I've never heard of one of our ball joints failing on a musclecar. In fact, we've never even received a warranty claim for wear, failure, or anything else, for that matter. We had one guy break an S10 ball joint once - I read on the forum later that he was glad it failed going at a slow speed, because he was hopping the truck at 65 mph on the highway a few minutes before. The truck was on airbags and didn't have limiting straps - that will break any ball joint on earth.

I have nothing bad to say about Howe ball joints - they're nice units. I happen to prefer our boot design to theirs. The other main difference is that theirs is rebuildable. For most customers, a rebuildable ball joint won't be necessary - because our ball joint will usually outlast the life of the car it goes on.

Anyways, I'd really like to hear the reasons why you decided to return your product - if there's anything we can incorporate into the design to make it better, I'd like to know about it.

I'll make you an offer. PM me and I'll send you a set of our uppers and lowers, free of charge. Put them on the car and report back here if you have a problem.

And if a few years go by and you're still happy with them, it would be great to hear that, too.

There`s not really a lot to say here that isn`t obvious. ProForged ball joints are stock OE type ball joints made in a factory in Taiwan and marketed under the ProForged name. They`ve made some of them taller,copying our work and our years of R&D without even knowing why they were doing it. That said I (grudgingly) think they`re among the better OE type replacement parts currently on the market. Despite having pivot balls and races much smaller than even stock parts they seem to hold up fine. Saddly parts from once trusted companys like Moog and NAPA are not what they once were. We do use the ProForged uppers in our Street Strip drag race package where we do not expect massive side loading and the taller pins add a bit of geometry improvement and droop travel.
Please let`s not try and compare them to Howe ball joints,which are in a completely different class. They have become the standard by which all other ball joints are measured in serious racing circles. They are the number one choice when careers,millions of dollars and lives are on the line. They are made by Howe Racing in Michigan,USA, by American citizens who speak english and they are made of 100% American materials. They are made as well as ball joints can be made with current technology. They cost a few dollars more than foreign made OE type parts. They`re smooth and low friction because they are made to very precise tolerances. A ball joint stud bouncing on a spring is not precise, it`s a tiny pogo stick. Please. The Howe ball joints lifespan has been shown in severe racing and military use to exceed that of OE ball joints by an average of 5 times. They are adjustable but,as we sell them, they come preadjusted and do not need to be adjusted again,nor should they be, until vertical endplay is encountered. We have some with over 150,000 all weather street miles that still have not worn through the low friction coatings yet, let alone developed end play. In short, their life span is longer than most of ours. If you live long enough to need to adjust them it`s childs play and takes seconds. It`s done without removing them from the vehicle. If you can`t handle that,please put down the tools and step away from the vehicle. ;)
David Pozzi,to be fair you might also want to mention that you and Mary have been running Howe tall ball joints, from SC&C, for many years now. It`s got to be what, 6 or 7 years? How many wins do you two suppose you`ve had with them over the years? It`s been mentioned here before once or twice and in Camaro Performers, but I think it bears repeating. I`m just sayin... Thanks, Mark SC&C

Zack,

This is exactly what I heard and where I heard it from.

Jameson