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    1. #21
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
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      1,214
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Goodguy Ed View Post
      The 200 treadwear was what all the other AutoCross events are running and that was where we started so we are just going back to that so tires are not the deciding factor on the cars if you were running other events and could not buy tires for an event of a lower treadwear.
      Nope. The VAST majority of autocross (98% +) 140 treadwear is considered a street tire.




      I don't think that coming on Sunday only is going to attract many people. I have to drive 880 miles round trip to one event, and 300 miles round trip to the other, I wouldn't do the trip for one day, and I'm sure I'm not a minority on this.
      -James

      1974 Z28 SCCA C Prepared
      1990 Firebird NASA CMC
      2005 Mustang GT SCCA F-Street (new for 2015)
      1989 Civic Si SCCA STC


    2. #22
      Join Date
      Aug 2006
      Location
      San Francisco, CA
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      809
      Country Flag: United States
      I am pretty sure Ed is referring to the American Street Car Series; I think it's cool that both series are together on a rating now.
      Steven

      1968 Camaro: Project "TRACKDAY"

      Latest Track Weekend Video

      Build in Progress

    3. #23
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      Elburn, IL.
      Posts
      220
      I have a few questions that I know will effect more than just myself.

      If you bring/register more than one car at an event, can you compete with more than one vehicle?
      As an example, if I bring both of our Chevelles to an event and my wife doesn't want to drive can I compete with both cars?
      To further complicate this, if I manage to win wih my Chevelle does this put me in the pro class if I go to the next event with my wife's car?
      What if I show up at the next event with a truck?
      Please clarify this as I know we're not the only people that have more than one vehicle.

      Thanks
      Chris Jacobs

    4. #24
      Join Date
      Aug 2010
      Location
      now In Dandridge, Tn.
      Posts
      1,301
      Country Flag: United States
      I have to say that I'm not to thrilled by the new rules. This won't stop me from going to events, But I may be a bit less vocal about getting others involved. GoodGuys is trying to make everybody hapy, which is never possible. I have fears that the long term impact of this will be felt most by the autocross sponsors themselves. Goodguys autocross is a selling tool to them, and is tied to the competetive nature of all of us. These sponsors pay a HEFTY price to be involved, and while it is fun for everyone to go out and drive the track, those, like Donny, will go out and buy parts from those sponsors (they're the ones out there proving the performance of their parts) and figure out how to win. This is great for those companies, as they sell more parts to help pay for the sponsorship check they send in each year. Now, if the fast guys move up, to a class they can't win, then slower cars and trucks will get to claim some wins, and by the end of the season, the wins will go out to people not as competetive as the fast class. So, the need to make your car better fades, and the sponsors sell fewer parts. After afew years, the value of the sponsorship may fade, and then it's over.

      I suggested eliminating the vendor class, and splitting the three classes into two groups. - pro, and challenger. The prizes could be split as well so that sponsors don't have to pony up more swag. Venders would run in the pro group of the corresponding class of the car/truck, and like the new rules, once you win your class at the challenger level, you move up to the pro group of your class for the year. This way like cars/trucks run against each other. And the fastest of each class will be recognized.

      As to the points and champion of the new pro class, this can only be won by a vendor now. - perhaps as it should be. But if you start out in street machine, and you win in Indy and move up, the vendors who started gaining points in Scottsdale are too far ahead to catch. I have suggested a simple points system and the naming class champions as a way to create more 'buzz' at the shows and for the competitors. Last year, I tracked all of the results of all classes, and made up a points scale as folows.

      1 point to show up, tech, and complete a pass.
      10 points for a first in class, 8 for second, and so on to fifth place.
      1 extra point for the fastest lap of the wekend.

      A simple scale is easy to score, and gives a lot of incentive to hit one or two more events if your near the top of the list. 2011 ended as follows.

      VENDOR CLASS
      Spectra Camaro 72
      D.T.S. 70 Camaro 61
      D.T.S. 63 Nova 51
      ridetech 48hr Camaro 47
      Gateway 68 mustang 41

      STREET MACHINE CLASS
      Mark Rife 36
      Kevin Miller 36
      Brian Finch 32
      Mary Pozzi 28
      Chris Jacobs 27

      STREET ROD CLASS
      Donnie Friese 44
      Dennis Russel 38
      Eric Wise 29
      Fish Newman 20
      Larry Cristler 12
      Bob Cross 12

      TRUCK CLASS
      Rob MacGregor 92
      Diz Demes 31
      Kevin Bapst 28
      Scott Call 27
      Tyler Gibson 22


      Thats how it shakes out
      Last edited by RobNoLimit; 02-19-2012 at 09:55 PM.

    5. #25
      Join Date
      Apr 2005
      Location
      Cartersville, GA
      Posts
      1,300
      Country Flag: United States
      I posted this earlier, then deleted it because the rules weren't fully clear to me, but I'll go ahead and re-post it.
      I have never understood about GoodGuys...why is a fiberglass replica/kit car popped out of the mold six months ago and assembled out of a catalog worthy, but a real steel, American made car made after 1972 not? Most pre-73s, even the less popular ones, are out of reach for a lot of people who would ordinarily come to these events to compete...and frankly, how many pro touring 1st gen Camaros can one see without getting bored? Maybe I'm jaded from being around cars my whole life, but I'd rather see someone flogging on a car you don't see every day. The vast majority of pre-'72 owners are content to sit in lawn chairs behind their cars, listen to tired '50s music, and collect another trophy for the collection. Let the owners of later models play, too! And not just for a day...that isn't worth the gas money.
      Joe Hinds

    6. #26
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Location
      Hamilton, NJ
      Posts
      4,291
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by SLO_Z28 View Post
      I don't think that coming on Sunday only is going to attract many people. I have to drive 880 miles round trip to one event, and 300 miles round trip to the other, I wouldn't do the trip for one day, and I'm sure I'm not a minority on this.
      Quote Originally Posted by BulldawgMusclecars View Post
      I posted this earlier, then deleted it because the rules weren't fully clear to me, but I'll go ahead and re-post it.
      I have never understood about GoodGuys...why is a fiberglass replica/kit car popped out of the mold six months ago and assembled out of a catalog worthy, but a real steel, American made car made after 1972 not? Most pre-73s, even the less popular ones, are out of reach for a lot of people who would ordinarily come to these events to compete...and frankly, how many pro touring 1st gen Camaros can one see without getting bored? Maybe I'm jaded from being around cars my whole life, but I'd rather see someone flogging on a car you don't see every day. The vast majority of pre-'72 owners are content to sit in lawn chairs behind their cars, listen to tired '50s music, and collect another trophy for the collection. Let the owners of later models play, too! And not just for a day...that isn't worth the gas money.
      I agree. I made that same argument to a local club that hosts a charity cruise night that cuts off at 74. I can roll in a 32 ford with no part built before 2008 and it's ok. I never got that and asked. "A 32 is a 32" was the answer I got from them. Lucky for their charity they don't know the difference between a 74 and a 77 Camaro.

      I never went to any GG event because my 77 was not welcome. Sunday only is no carrot. Based on other events I am familiar with (so I could be wrong) I'd guess a lot of guys blow off Sunday to go home, so a trip like that is not worth it to me. I'd like to do one of these some weekend, but I drive my car. And it isn't going to sit in the parking lot on Sat. just my $0.02.
      Scott from NJ.

      Vent Windows Forever! ...

      Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold
      I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors

    7. #27
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Beach Park IL
      Posts
      2,838
      Country Flag: United States
      hey, hey ,hey. This is the thread to bitch about the autocross rules..... Your points are valid but there are two other threads about the cutoff already. More importantly for the context of this discussion, the year cutoff is not a new rule but one that has been in place for many years.

      FWIW, I can build a 69 camaro with all new parts too.

      Rob, I don't like the pro class either but I don't think the answer is more classes. It was simple before, easy to comprehend. You show up and run and were divided by year right in the middle. If has a bed it's a truck, if you are a displaying vendor you're in vendor. Simple. Now you will have vendors in regular classes until they get bumped up to pro. How many cars and very capable drivers are in the Hotchkis stable? Long term it should make the show better but we won't know until we know.

      Thanks for putting that points system together! That's pretty cool. How many events did you do last year? I went to four. The only problem I see with a points system the championship becomes more about attendance than anything, go to more shows and you will win......I wish I could go on tour, that would be awesome! So it really ends up like what pro class is, I think, where the guy with the most shows will likely be the champion. I really think you have to treat all of these events as just that, individual events. If the rules get to complicated it won't be good, simple is good. I really don't know what the answers are.....

      Everyone, I have mentioned the new rules to say the same thing, "what is this, Kindergarten? Everybody wins, everybody gets a trophy?"

      On the bright side, I'll get my chance to run head to head with the ridetech hot rod.

    8. #28
      Join Date
      Aug 2006
      Location
      Vinland Kansas,66006
      Posts
      647
      Country Flag: United States
      Well,GoodGuy's autoX might be dead in about 2years.At these bigger event's like DeMoines there was 40 cars running.Us reg. guys will only get about 3 runs a day.That as bad as going a SCCA autox.You only get 4 runs all day there.Thats why it was cool to go to a GG event.You could get 30 runs a week end.People dont want to sit around all day and just watch the vendor's.We want to get there and run and ajust on our cars.Kevin and I have planed to show to about 7GG events this year.I hope we get alot of runs,or may just have to start our own Good Dude's event's.LOL

    9. #29
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      Elburn, IL.
      Posts
      220
      Quote Originally Posted by 66SuperSport View Post
      I have a few questions that I know will effect more than just myself.

      If you bring/register more than one car at an event, can you compete with more than one vehicle?
      As an example, if I bring both of our Chevelles to an event and my wife doesn't want to drive can I compete with both cars?
      To further complicate this, if I manage to win wih my Chevelle does this put me in the pro class if I go to the next event with my wife's car?
      What if I show up at the next event with a truck?
      Please clarify this as I know we're not the only people that have more than one vehicle.

      Thanks
      Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
      Chris Jacobs

    10. #30
      Join Date
      Aug 2010
      Location
      now In Dandridge, Tn.
      Posts
      1,301
      Country Flag: United States
      Think of the car and driver as a team. Joe B. and his camaro, vin #...73. If Joe wins in the street machine class, in that car, the Team of car and driver moves up to pro. If Joe's wife or brother drives the car, camaro vin#...73, at the next event, that team is in Street Machine, Joe can also drive the camaro at the same event, in Pro class, but each team of car and driver will need it's own entry registration card ($55 to goodguys registration). If Joe has another car, even another camaro, with a different vin, say #....78, the team of Joe and his second camaro is in street machine class until he wins in that car too.
      At least thats the way it was explained to me. Hope that clears things up.

    11. #31
      Join Date
      Nov 2009
      Location
      Elburn, IL.
      Posts
      220
      Thanks Rob. That was the answer I was looking for.
      Chris Jacobs

    12. #32
      Join Date
      Aug 2007
      Location
      Roanoke (FortWorth) Texas
      Posts
      786
      I like the new rules myself. Perhaps next year it will grow to Pro-Street Machine, Pro-Street Rod, and Pro-Truck, along with armature Street Machine, Street Rod, and Truck. With every Racing/Sport organization, there is always a need to move into higher classes and/or handicaps. Im not familiar with the history of the GG auto-x but perhaps it once started out with only one class and was split to the current structure to make it fair. I see this as just further evolution. Im just happy there is enough growth here to warrant steps to keep things fair. I'll show up to 2-3 events this year and dont plan on winning any of them. I'm just there to have fun and improve.
      Chris

      Total Cost Involved - Ridetech - Fatman - Total Control Products - Gateway Performance - MaverickMan Carbon

    13. #33
      Join Date
      Jan 2012
      Location
      Dallas, Texas
      Posts
      144
      Country Flag: United States
      I would like to think I am the guy that the GoodGuys show is looking for. I have attended numerous shows in the past and find it enjoyable. However the influence of seeing the autocross there along with personalities such as Mary Pozzi have inspired me to take my car in the direction of a (semi)pro-touring car. I have to operate with a small budget, but would love to get out and have fun WITH the big guys. I can't think of a more friendly environment to get seat time with a talented driver in the passenger seat (which I have seen Mary do several times) to help me learn. Unfortunately my car along with Mary's are built in 1973. So with no change other than build date I am left with no choice but to seek out events such as RTTC to share my love of the sport. I get that there must be a cutoff, but perhaps it should roll at say 30-40 years old?
      Sorry to ramble, just wanted to share my disappointment as I anticipate the arrival of my PTFP suspension upgrades......
      Last edited by V8240Z; 02-22-2012 at 10:31 AM. Reason: spelling

    14. #34
      Join Date
      Aug 2006
      Location
      San Francisco, CA
      Posts
      809
      Country Flag: United States
      "Rule number 1: There can only be X rules"

      Speaking in generalities here, I just hope that these grassroots series don't start taking themselves too seriously. Safety rules are one thing, but there's a lot to be said for simplicity when there's nothing really at stake except bragging rights and happy spectators.
      Steven

      1968 Camaro: Project "TRACKDAY"

      Latest Track Weekend Video

      Build in Progress

    15. #35
      Join Date
      Dec 2007
      Location
      Wisconsin
      Posts
      604
      • Sponsors of the AutoCross are automatically put into the PRO-Class. The Street Machine, Street Rod and Truck class winners after each event will be in the PRO-Class for the remainder of that season.
      So only sponsors will run pro class? So then companies like Hotchkis, Heidts, Gateway, Spectre, etc would run street machine, street rod, or truck until they got the one win they are allowed before they are deemed a pro? Did Rob McGaffin just get bumped into Pro class with PHR Project Olds? Sorry Rob.

      No worries Donnie. When I attend an event with the Olds, whether or not I'm doing coverage, I have myself placed in vendor or just run exhibition because of my relationship with GoodGuys and SIM.

    16. #36
      Join Date
      Aug 2006
      Location
      Nashville TN
      Posts
      771
      I can see the reasoning behind this as it does get old for most people to see the same person win time over time, this is one of the reasons I choose to make myself ineligible in the American Street Car Series. I want others to experience the feeling of being on top which will cement them in the sport and push them to get faster and faster. That usually = spending some $$$ with the sponsors.

      Also remember that this is a car show with a performance exhibition happening in the middle of it so is far from a formal race. I for one will just try to come out on top of an event in the new Pro group once I am moved up so the challenge is still there to improve, if this also means I get more runs then I am all for that.
      Brian Finch
      Pro-touring Hero

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    17. #37
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Location
      Central California
      Posts
      2,050
      Country Flag: United States
      I expect you to be promoted to Pro after your first GG autocross, Brian ... No brainer there.

      Mary Pozzi
      mpozzi . . . '73 Camaro RS, '69 Camaro SCCA/Trans-Am vintage racer, and a 1989 R7U 1LE Players Challenge car.

      "STICK, you B*TCH!!!!!!"

      "It's not a horse. You can't train it!! "


    18. #38
      Join Date
      Jan 2012
      Location
      london, Ontario, Canada
      Posts
      48
      Country Flag: Canada
      you guys realize that if you run at the top of every hour, 2 min to line up, listen to Rob, 34 second run, 1min and 30seconds to park x 10 pro cars = 30 min out of an hour, I went to first GG show last year loved it! ran twise,it was the only reason I came down from Canada, I would have done anything to run more. I really hope that I get a chance to run more than 2 times, Its alot of fun to watch and learn from you guys, you are great people with very positive and friendly out going attitudes, don't take this the wrong way, but most people can only watch the same commercial so many times before they loose interest. Just saying.

      Hans

    19. #39
      Join Date
      Mar 2006
      Location
      Garden Grove Calif
      Posts
      138
      I think the average joe taking his car to to a Goodguys autocross will get fewer runs per day now. (which is exactly who I am, joe average). I might never win but I keep trying. I dont need to get "moved up". More drivers will be disappointed that they had to sit and wait every hour for the pro class to run. And to see great people like Mary go is stupid. She has helped us all. I mean ALL. She will help, talk to, advise, ride along, give rides. I think there are many of us that with her help and advice have have done better and want to return and run better. It sounds like to me, a good thing is about to get messed up..........Mike

    20. #40
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Location
      Central California
      Posts
      2,050
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      Quote Originally Posted by hotrod69camaro View Post
      I think the average joe taking his car to to a Goodguys autocross will get fewer runs per day now. (which is exactly who I am, joe average). I might never win but I keep trying. I dont need to get "moved up". More drivers will be disappointed that they had to sit and wait every hour for the pro class to run. And to see great people like Mary go is stupid. She has helped us all. I mean ALL. She will help, talk to, advise, ride along, give rides. I think there are many of us that with her help and advice have have done better and want to return and run better. It sounds like to me, a good thing is about to get messed up..........Mike
      Thanks for the nice words, Mike, but this hold-fast decision about not letting my '73 Camaro run has more to do with business than anything else. GG knows my thoughts about it but their hands are tied. It's okay as I've got quite a few offers to drive some very cool (and well set up) cars at various GG events this year. Hope the schedule works so I can do them ...

      Mary Pozzi
      Last edited by mpozzi; 02-24-2012 at 08:42 AM.
      mpozzi . . . '73 Camaro RS, '69 Camaro SCCA/Trans-Am vintage racer, and a 1989 R7U 1LE Players Challenge car.

      "STICK, you B*TCH!!!!!!"

      "It's not a horse. You can't train it!! "


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