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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Posts
      8

      electric wires in gas tank?

      Hey guys, I dont want to sound like a dumb ass but can someone explain how a electric fuel pump works in a gas tank. It does not make sense to me how this can be safe. I thought SPARK+FUEL=BOOOOM

      Thanks

    2. #2
      Join Date
      Jul 2006
      Location
      Keller, Texas
      Posts
      250
      Spark+fuel+oxygen=boom
      Greg
      1970 challenger convert-in process
      1970 barracuda-driver

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Sep 2004
      Location
      Near Dayton, OH
      Posts
      547
      Quote Originally Posted by gkring View Post
      Spark+fuel+oxygen=boom
      Exactly and in a gas tank you have fuel-spark-oxygen=no boom. Even with fuel+spark you'd still need oxygen to go boom.
      Andrew
      1987 Olds Cutlass Supreme FE3X Clone
      EFI455/T56/9" w/ 4.30 gears
      __________________________________________________ __


    4. #4
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Newbury Park, CA
      Posts
      5,821
      Country Flag: United States
      But there is fuel and oxygen, but no spark. Think brushless DC and a fully encapsulated motor.
      VaporWorx. We Give You Gas http://www.vaporworx.com

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Nov 2004
      Location
      Colorado
      Posts
      1,260
      Country Flag: United States
      Gasoline also has very high resistance.



    6. #6
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      Location
      Santa Maria , CA
      Posts
      94
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by BigBlockOlds View Post
      Exactly and in a gas tank you have fuel-spark-oxygen=no boom. Even with fuel+spark you'd still need oxygen to go boom.
      so dont run out of gas or your fuel tank will explode. jk

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Jul 2009
      Location
      South Orange County
      Posts
      598
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by edog1 View Post
      so dont run out of gas or your fuel tank will explode. jk
      LOL---Manual pump anyone?

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Oct 2002
      Location
      Houston,TX
      Posts
      630
      Thats one of those things that no matter what, it just never will sit well with me... Pump is out of the tank on my car
      James J.

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Jun 2005
      Location
      Lynnwood Wa.
      Posts
      248
      Country Flag: United States
      If it is so dangerous, Why are there pumps inside OEM tanks.
      Oliver Shultz
      It's OK to giggle and snicker. don't laugh and point

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Newbury Park, CA
      Posts
      5,821
      Country Flag: United States
      Because it's the best place to put it. The pump is submerged in fuel to keep it cool, the noise is masked by the pump, it takes up less roo, uses fewer hoses, etc.

      Also, OE's do not use just pumps in the tank. They use modules, which include many features that make them significantly better than just a pump.
      VaporWorx. We Give You Gas http://www.vaporworx.com

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Jan 2011
      Posts
      1
      Take an old pump apart sometime, you'll be surprised to learn that the fuel actually passes through the pump motor for cooling. There is no danger, as mentioned above, not only is oxygen necessary to support combustion, but there needs to be close to 14.7 times more oxygen than fuel by volume for ignition to occur. This will never happen inside a tank, not even an empty tank because the gasoline fumes will displace almost all of the oxygen. Think about it, other than in a collision, how many fuel tank explosions have you heard of?

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Nov 2008
      Location
      So. Cal.
      Posts
      1,240
      Country Flag: United States
      Its always baffled me also. Good question. And not just fuel pumps, but fuel level sending units. Heck, they are sometime not much more than a coil of wire that the pickup lead passes over as the fuel level drops. There is electrical current passing though the leads and over the coil. I would have to think there is some sparking going on with a strip of metal riding over a coil. And the coil is not always submerged in fuel.

      Heavy fuel vapors must be the key. No O2 in the tank then huh?

      But? Fuel tanks are not sealed. As you use up the fuel you introduce air into the tank. So it would seem like an empty 20 gallon tank would be a fuel and O2 rich environment no? Replaced 18 gallons of fuel with 18 gallons of air. Plenty of air in your mostly empty tanks.

      And Im not thinking so much about the fuel pump, cause it should always be under fuel, even if you run the tank down.

      But what about the fuel sender coil? Now its in a fuel and air (O2) environment. You would think NO WAY do you want a spark to happen. But sliding contacts over open coils CAN produce sparks.

      I dont get it. And the thing is, they have been using open electrical components in fuel tanks forever (40 years in my case, maybe longer if my 62 had the same type of fuel level sender).

      What either ballsy or very smart guy decided that electrics in the fuel tank might be something to try out many years ago?

      Yup, Im very in tune with electricity and how it works, but to shove electrical components inside of a bomb, like a fuel tank is beyond my knowledge. That was a ballsy and tested theory back then.

      And so far I haven't seen any real positive explanations here. Some theory, like why it doesnt go BOOM. But no real explanations why. JR
      What I write is opinion, none of it is factual. 2010

      Even though I'm conscious it doesn't mean I'm coherent. 2011

      I'm getting better with age. Best thing about old age is I don't know any better. 2012

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      Rockford Illinois
      Posts
      3,947
      Country Flag: United States
      All things grounded won't spark I believe is the key. Fuel tank systems are always grounded when on so it is constant and when it fails the current stops. I could be wrong on the exact reasoning but that's what I would think would keep tanks from being bombs in the eyes of engineers.

      We surely aren't insane about the reality of a spark and fuel going kablewey since it gets us down the road! It would seem reasonable to think that it could arc and in a full tank it is a no brainer on its ability to blow up but when it is empty it must be as rich as a full piston full of gas and it won't blow.
      May The Horsepower Be With You !!!

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Mar 2010
      Location
      San Gabriel Valley CA
      Posts
      148
      Country Flag: United States
      Its kinda the same reason why a "flooded" engine will not fire.
      Mike Lara

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Dec 2007
      Location
      Carlsbad, Ca
      Posts
      1,213
      Country Flag: United States
      It would seem reasonable to think that it could arc and in a full tank it is a no brainer on its ability to blow up but when it is empty it must be as rich as a full piston full of gas and it won't blow.
      i may be reading it wrong, but the way im reading it you have it backwards. a tank full of gas is way above its UEL and wont explode, a tank thats empty is closer to its flammable range, but still most likely above its UEL.
      Tim

      The WidowMaker: Garage Built 70 Chevelle

      Special Thanks To: Rushforth Wheels, MuscleRodz, Kore3 & SC&C

      Build Thread Link

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      Location
      NW burbs IL
      Posts
      1,732
      Ok.............. the next time your at 30k feet on an airliner, think about the fuel boost pumps 2 per tank ( 3 phase 115v ). I have seen burnt pins on the pump cannon plugs, they are enclosed in a sealed Aeroquip hose assy, but sh*t can happen.

      One reason why I like first class and booze.
      Matt


      Current project: " Chain Reaction "

      A.K.A. " BIG " by wife, biatch in garage.

      1969 RS Camaro L92 T56 Quadra-link, CW sub, Ford 9" a progressive build.

      Ex track car: 1995 Camaro LS1 T56

    17. #17
      Join Date
      Dec 2007
      Location
      Carlsbad, Ca
      Posts
      1,213
      Country Flag: United States
      Ok.............. the next time your at 30k feet on an airliner, think about the fuel boost pumps 2 per tank ( 3 phase 115v ). I have seen burnt pins on the pump cannon plugs, they are enclosed in a sealed Aeroquip hose assy, but sh*t can happen.

      One reason why I like first class and booze.
      uh oh, does twa 800 ring any bells? while boozing repeat after me; it was a missle, it was a missle, it was a missle..........
      Tim

      The WidowMaker: Garage Built 70 Chevelle

      Special Thanks To: Rushforth Wheels, MuscleRodz, Kore3 & SC&C

      Build Thread Link

    18. #18
      Join Date
      May 2011
      Location
      La
      Posts
      20
      My friend, a coworker, and my boss always run their cars down to empty before refilling. It was mentioned that the pumps are in the gas to keep them cool. Well, in the ast year, all 3 of their fuel pumps in their cars went out. When they went to replace them, the pumps in all 3 had gotten so hot that a wire melted off the pump inside the tank and was just hanging in there and no boom. So apparently its safe, at least with the pumps the OEMs use. It was a Ford, GM, and Jeep, and the same exact thing happened to all 3.

    19. #19
      Join Date
      Apr 2006
      Location
      Huntington Beach, CA
      Posts
      2,415
      Country Flag: United States
      Don't most people run their cars to E before refilling? Out of everyone I know, I only know one person who doesn't
      Please Subscribe to the AutoXandTrack YouTube Channel

      Autocross and track blog about running autocross and track events with pro touring cars

    20. #20
      Join Date
      May 2002
      Location
      Northern California
      Posts
      10,715
      Country Flag: Bosnia Herzegovina
      most modern tanks will have enough fluid in it to keep the pump cool.
      electrical systems in questioned are designed for submerged usage. Grounding circuits, low amperage circuits keep everything safe. I've seen a few pumps burst into flames when guys try to bench test them. Straight battery hook up with no fuse or relay protection.
      MrQuick ΜΟΛ'ΩΝ ΛΑΒ'Ε

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