Introducing Project Unfair, The fastest All Around Pro Touring Car On The Planet!

[ProdigyCustoms]

Subscribing

This sounds like some awful heavy hinting around to me.

.

Or could just be a statement?

Just a few more hours.

[jy211]

Just a few more hours.

Cool. Then I can finally get a hold of you! Your on rock star status...

[Steve1968LS2]

No one said 45 days, more like 8 months or so. magazine articles will stretch over 12 to 14 issues.

See how interweb rumors start.. pretty soon it would have been 4.5 days.. ;)

[John Wright]

See how interweb rumors start.. pretty soon it would have been 4.5 days.. ;)

Hahaha....I almost posted 4-5 days just to hurry the deadline along...LOL

[stealth71]

Sweet project can't wait to see how it turns out. Might have to swing by and see if I can look under the covers.

[preston]

Congrats on the new project. AFter reading the car name and all the hype though I actually expected a car that was going to push the envelope a bit more rather than staying in the bolt on universe. I understand your market though.

Personally I think raising the floors is the wrong direction to go, I"m always surprised more people don't do what I did (obviously I'm not the first and last, Mustang in last month's Hot Rod for example) and running the exhaust through fabricated rockers. This allows you to LOWER the floor and the seat and therefore the roof and the entire car body 1-3". No ergonomic problems either.

Interested in how the Whipples handle the road course. Now I know the FGT and ZR1 and Cobra as well as the Big Mercs are all using PD blowers, but I also seem to hear they have heat induced power loss after lapping, more so than the turbo and super cars. I"m guessing a lot of that is the inability to fit a big enough heat exchanger under the blower.

Love to see some new IRS options for PT too. That is one of my big regrets on the car, I was planning on using some Dutchman and C6 parts to build a 9" based custom IRS, but shied away.

What I'm really really interested in is aftermarket ABS and some more TC options. right now Racelogic or an expen$ive MOTEC ECU are really the only options I've seen for TC.

The alum weights above look good except for the fender. How does a fender go from 26 to 9 lbs ? Alum parts can really only be about 50% lighter in a decent thickness, and you usually save a few lbs by removing some of the extraneous bracketry or bracing, but 9 lb alum fender I don't believe it. And this is coming from someone who was 50% of the way to building hand formed alum fenders for a '67 Mustang. I gave up when I saw the mountain of work ahead to finish them and realized they were only saving me 19 lbs ->11 lbs=8 lbs each.

--- on edit
I re-read this post and didn't mean to come across sounding negative. I think we all like to ponder the different parts of projects and what we like and don't like. This thing should be rad - try and get that engine setback as far as you dare !

[customshop]

Great looking project. I will have to keep in touch. Thanks for the help with the whels and brake on our project. got it wrapped up today for him. Turned out really nice. Good Luck again. you can see pics of it on my site. www.customshop.org

[xxxturbo6]

Congrats on the new project. AFter reading the car name and all the hype though I actually expected a car that was going to push the envelope a bit more rather than staying in the bolt on universe. I understand your market though.

Personally I think raising the floors is the wrong direction to go, I"m always surprised more people don't do what I did (obviously I'm not the first and last, Mustang in last month's Hot Rod for example) and running the exhaust through fabricated rockers. This allows you to LOWER the floor and the seat and therefore the roof and the entire car body 1-3". No ergonomic problems either.

Interested in how the Whipples handle the road course. Now I know the FGT and ZR1 and Cobra as well as the Big Mercs are all using PD blowers, but I also seem to hear they have heat induced power loss after lapping, more so than the turbo and super cars. I"m guessing a lot of that is the inability to fit a big enough heat exchanger under the blower.

Love to see some new IRS options for PT too. That is one of my big regrets on the car, I was planning on using some Dutchman and C6 parts to build a 9" based custom IRS, but shied away.

What I'm really really interested in is aftermarket ABS and some more TC options. right now Racelogic or an expen$ive MOTEC ECU are really the only options I've seen for TC.

The alum weights above look good except for the fender. How does a fender go from 26 to 9 lbs ? Alum parts can really only be about 50% lighter in a decent thickness, and you usually save a few lbs by removing some of the extraneous bracketry or bracing, but 9 lb alum fender I don't believe it. And this is coming from someone who was 50% of the way to building hand formed alum fenders for a '67 Mustang. I gave up when I saw the mountain of work ahead to finish them and realized they were only saving me 19 lbs ->11 lbs=8 lbs each.

--- on edit
I re-read this post and didn't mean to come across sounding negative. I think we all like to ponder the different parts of projects and what we like and don't like. This thing should be rad - try and get that engine setback as far as you dare !

I too thought that lowering the floor thus (lowering the center of gravity) would be better, but I guess it's done just to hide exhaust and other stuff... But in reality it's only an 1-1/2''... Frank does great work and so does John so I would bet this thing will turn out killer...

[MrQuick]

well if you think about, if you raise the floor you can tuck crap up higher thus you can have a lower car with out the lowered problems. might even have room for a full pan.

there is a method to the madness.
Vince

[MrQuick]

FYI, I never said who I was talking to.

We are only a few hours away now boys!

haaa haaaa haa
Love it. Your getting good at this Frank..... can we get the web cam up?


Vince

[Gitter Dun]

The alum weights above look good except for the fender. How does a fender go from 26 to 9 lbs ? Alum parts can really only be about 50% lighter in a decent thickness, and you usually save a few lbs by removing some of the extraneous bracketry or bracing, but 9 lb alum fender I don't believe it. And this is coming from someone who was 50% of the way to building hand formed alum fenders for a '67 Mustang. I gave up when I saw the mountain of work ahead to finish them and realized they were only saving me 19 lbs ->11 lbs=8 lbs each

I'm gonna have to defend AMD on this one soley because I'm expecting delivery of their front clip on April 28th.

I will weight fender and post weight then.

Proof's in the Pudding

[ProdigyCustoms]

OK guys, so here it is. The Art Morrison 5 link!

What? Too many bars?

Well what you are looking at is what Mr Quick guessed, a 34 link, or better written a 3 / 4 link! (Remember I never said who I was talking too when I said you're getting pretty close).

That right there is a true no compromise road race 3 link set up when the upper outer bars are removed. That is also a true no compromise Drag Race 4 link (just like a Pro Stocker) when the upper center bar is removed! Quite honestly this is one of those things that is right in front of you no one saw it!

We approached Art and Craig Morrison at SEMA with this idea of building the fastest ALL AROUND Pro Touring car ever including 8 second quarters. Art told me I really should not party so much when I am in Vegas, LOL! So we told the Morrison's of our idea of making the car a "Pro Touring transformer" of sorts. A car with the ability to quickly (few hours) transform from a great autocross / road race car to a great drag car by moving some stuff around and swapping some easy to change Components (Read more later). The idea was for a suspension system with massive adjust ability. Those Morrison's are so damn smart. Craig made my day one morning when he called, GOT IT! A 3 / 4 link! Of coarse I thought immediatly! I could not call Parson's fast enough.

I am sure all the suspension scientist here will agree a properly tuned 3 link is as good as G machine suspension gets. Personally I think it is the best, but that could be argued all day.

And no one can even argue a proper (drag race) parallel 4 link is the absolute best on the drag strip!

So yes guys, it Will work on the road coarse, it WILL hook at the drag strip.

You guys are welcome to ask any questions, I will answer the big ones now.

(1) Will this set up be available to buy? YES! We will have these available SOON! But DO NOT call Prodigy or AME to buy YET! Please give us sometime to get it in the car, look at packaging and minor fabrication.

(2) When will we be ready to take orders? SOON! While we DO NOT need to have this in a running in the car to KNOW it works, We simply have to work out the final fitment and cost. So I can take reservations immediatly and I suspect we can start taking orders in 30 days, but again, PLEASE do not inundate AME or me with phone calls quite yet. Remember you are getting a preview before we should give you a preview.

(3) How much will it cost? AME is still working on that. Keep in mind, Project unfair is a car with a goal, so cost analysis comes AFTER you have the real thing in front of you. The suspension system was done the same way, build it and get it done, look at cost later. Craig and I did discuss some general cost ideas and tragets, and basing it on the current AME rear clip in a Tri 4 bar or 3 link is right around $3600 to $4000 for clip and housing (DEAL), Hopes are to keep this multi link clip and housing set up in the $5000 to $5500 range. But again, all the cost still have to be examined.

(4) Does the car have to be back halfed? NO! the frame rails are molded to fit the original rear floor like AME's other 3 Link and Tri 4 Bar clips. You just drill out your old frame rails and weld these new stronger molded 2 X 3 rails in place. HOWEVER, there is some penetration through the floor where the upper links connect, and there will be some reliefs and closeouts that will have to be fabricated, but this should be very mild fabrication.

(5) How big a tire can this handle? More then a notched factory frame as long as you do not use pre packaged tubs. The outer frame rails are 1" more narrow then the narrowest possible frame width with thinnest factory frame rail notch one can do. And what is so cool is you not only keep a full rail where you normally notch, but you have a stronger rail also. Our drag tires will be 345 / 35 / 18 Drag Radials with a section around 14.5"! So we will be making bigger mini tubs for Unfair.

I will leave it at that for now. So ask any questions

Enjoy

[fishtail8]

Very cool, I wonder if there would be any difficulty converting a car already set up with a 4 link for the 3 link brackets on the diff and crossmember to accomplish the same?

You're going to set alot of people on their ear's with this one. Look forward to seeing the finished product!

[Bad94]

I really like that set up.

[oestek]

Very interesting! Like the multiple adjustment points for IC tuning on the 4 link.

Does the center upper link mount on the rear axle require a body dimple as well?

What are your exhaust plans?

Nice looking piece, the AME crew does outstanding work.

[ProdigyCustoms]

AFter reading the car name and all the hype though I actually expected a car that was going to push the envelope a bit more rather than staying in the bolt on universe. I understand your market though.

Preston, you obviously have some skills and knowledege. Your car is a badd ass race car. It would be very easy for Prodigy Customs and II Much Fabrication to do a super heavily fabricated, 5000 hour project no other mear mortal could duplicate. Project Prodigy and II Much clearly fall in that category. But for every one person that digs that kind of stuff, there are another 10 people that see it like a Playboy model, great to look at but totally unobtainable. John and I think we can build the best all around Pro Touring car (a street car that races well) with stuff everyone here can buy or fabricate with basic fab skills, without building something unobtainable.

Personally I think raising the floors is the wrong direction to go, I"m always surprised more people don't do what I did (obviously I'm not the first and last, Mustang in last month's Hot Rod for example) and running the exhaust through fabricated rockers. This allows you to LOWER the floor and the seat and therefore the roof and the entire car body 1-3". No ergonomic problems either.

You do not understand why we raised the floor. The front and rear subframes are attached to the floor, so raising the floor, lowers the body without compromising suspension travel. This lowers the COG, improves aero dynamics and looks cool as hell as a side benefit. The fact that it tucks the exhaust is a side benefit. Except for headroom and a few fab procedures, which we have a plane to lower the seat mount, there is no other negative to raising the floor.

Interested in how the Whipples handle the road course. Now I know the FGT and ZR1 and Cobra as well as the Big Mercs are all using PD blowers, but I also seem to hear they have heat induced power loss after lapping, more so than the turbo and super cars. I"m guessing a lot of that is the inability to fit a big enough heat exchanger under the blower.

It is not a Whipple, it is a Kenne Bell. And heat soaking a blower on a road coarse is always a concern. Exactly why we choose Kenne Bell. The KB blower is water and oil cooled for ice cold (in blower terms) Inlet Air Temps. Also keep in mind we will be doing 3 to 10 to 20 laps, not a Trans Am race!

The alum weights above look good except for the fender. How does a fender go from 26 to 9 lbs ? Alum parts can really only be about 50% lighter in a decent thickness, and you usually save a few lbs by removing some of the extraneous bracketry or bracing, but 9 lb alum fender I don't believe it. And this is coming from someone who was 50% of the way to building hand formed alum fenders for a '67 Mustang. I gave up when I saw the mountain of work ahead to finish them and realized they were only saving me 19 lbs ->11 lbs=8 lbs each.

I have not weighed the fenders yet, but I have held them in my arms and I will not be surprised if they are under 10LBS! I will weigh them.

[parsonsj]

Kevin,

Yes, we believe we'll need to dimple the floor some for the 3 link upper bar.

Exhaust: Frank and I both have strong beliefs that a real street car exhaust needs to get to the rear bumper, so no doubt I've got my work cut out for me (that's one of the things on my side of the balance sheet, lol). I see exhaust cutouts in the crossmember and some "interesting" routing to get exhaust to the rear bumper.

jp

[ProdigyCustoms]

Very interesting! Like the multiple adjustment points for IC tuning on the 4 link.

Does the center upper link mount on the rear axle require a body dimple as well?

What are your exhaust plans?

Nice looking piece, the AME crew does outstanding work.

Yes the center link will require a slice and cover in the floor

For exhaust we will most likely do something similar to what we did on EmptyNest and do some exhaust plenum to go over. See pic below.

I think we will do a round through pan exit on the exhaust ala Project Prodigy. See pic below


We fabriacted the trunk floor for EmptyNest, we used a 4" mandrel 90s and put half moons in the trunk pan for the 3" tailpipes. Works fantastic and easy to install.


Project Prodigy has 4" round tips.

[LSx_88_Ciera]

Is there a reason why you are going with the Watts pivot attached to the rearend housing. I thought that having it frame mounted was better am I misinformed.

[srh3trinity]

That suspension set up looks awesome. I applaud you for laying out some hefty goals while also considering meeting these goals in such a manner that there is the possibility for reproducibility by board members here. It should be fun to see if you meet those goals and if you do, I am sure that many of us will question what this group of minds/fabricators could do if you did do the 5000 hour full-out custom fabricated build.