Problem with SPC front LCA + AFX + tie rods + stock sway bar. 64 A-body/Chevelle

[64Chevelle]

Hi,

after waiting for ages for the correct idler arm I've finally about to finish my front end rebuild.

1. Can't mount sway bar! The tie rods ends are mounted too far forward/too high compared to the stock location. Perhaps because the SPC lowers moves the ball joint forward and the AFX spindle moves the tie rod mount location up to avoid bumpsteer.
- Buy new swaybar with different layout? OR
- Buy new and longer sway bar mount bolt?

2. Visible toe-out even when tie rod sleeve is adjusted to it's innermost position. Tie rods are exactly as long as the old ones. The new adjustment sleeve is about 1/2" shorter than the old one. New center link is also exactly like the old one. I don't know if the AFX spindle steering arms moves the tie rod end mount point in towards the frame.
- Use the old/stock tie rod sleeve (bad solution though)? OR
- Cut the tie rod ends?

Parts list:
- SPC UCA + LCA for AFX spindle
- AFX spindle w/A-body steering arms
- Supposedly matched front end steering linkage kit (Moog). Turned out to be the wrong idler arm.
- Tie rod adjuster sleeves (Spohn) included in above mentioned kit.

[1badchevelle]

I think you need to use the ats steering arm as well. The stock ones will cause issues. Might be part of the reason you are having a problem.

[64Chevelle]

Yes, I am using the AFX/ATS a-body steering arms. I bet that the adjuster sleeve would work perfectly for a 68-72 a-body, if I'm not mistaken they have a wider center link/tie rod setup.

[64Chevelle]

Well, I've cut two of the tie rod ends to be able to dial in enough toe-in.

And I guess I'll just have to go without the front swaybar for a while.

I think it's strange that noone else has run into the same problems though...

[ProTouring442]

How about a few pics so we can see.... I am guessing your sway bar issue will need a different length bolt.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[64Chevelle]

Good idea with pictures...

Tierods adjusted with maximum toe-in
http://trotter.lorentzenconsult.com/top.jpg

Tierod adjusters (stock and the new ones from Spohn). You can clearly see the Spohn ones are about 1/2" shorter.
http://trotter.lorentzenconsult.com/tierod_adjuster.jpg

Stock swaybar can't be mounted with stock swaybar endlink bolt.
http://trotter.lorentzenconsult.com/swaybar.jpg
http://trotter.lorentzenconsult.com/swaybar2.jpg

Old and new inner and outer tierods compared. They are pretty much equal length give or take a few millimeters.
http://trotter.lorentzenconsult.com/tierods.jpg

[TitoJones]

The toe issue is being caused by the shorter than factory Spohn adjusters. You are bottoming the inner and outer tie ords out on each other. You can cut the threads off the tie rod ends, or use a better adjuster that is the proper length.

Also you should be worrying about the alignment settings of the car before setting all that stuff anyhow. Get the toe good enough to drive it to the alignment shop. It will change after they set the caster and camber on the control arm.

The sway bar issue- I've seen this before. From what I recall it needs a different length endlink to work properly. I know Marcus at SC&C has a solution to this one, give him a call.

Tyler

[b-man]

Marcus at SC&C told me about the stock sway bar end links needing to be cut down until they fit properly. I was placing my order for the same front end components that you're using when he gave me that tip.

Cut down the end link spacer until the bar clears everything with the car's full weight sitting on the suspension, then buy the proper length bolt to match the spacer.

If the car isn't almost ready for the road, then wait until later to do the end links.

[64Chevelle]

Marcus at SC&C told me about the stock sway bar end links needing to be cut down until they fit properly. I was placing my order for the same front end components that you're using when he gave me that tip.

Cut down the end link spacer until the bar clears everything with the car's full weight sitting on the suspension, then buy the proper length bolt to match the spacer.

If the car isn't almost ready for the road, then wait until later to do the end links.

Thanks a lot, good tip there. That means the swaybar will mount BELOW the tierods, right? My immediate thought is that the angle of the end link bolt will be far from optimal, but it might not be such a big issue after all

Have you done this mod yet?

[79T/Aman]

the tie rod sleeve would not affect the tie rod ends butting each other, first if you add the end jamb nuts it will be the same length as the stock one, and regardless of the length of the sleeve the distance between the inner and outer tie rod pivot point don't change.

[64Chevelle]

the tie rod sleeve would not affect the tie rod ends butting each other, first if you add the end jamb nuts it will be the same length as the stock one, and regardless of the length of the sleeve the distance between the inner and outer tie rod pivot point don't change.

You are right of course. What was I thinking... The combined length of the tierods has nothing to do with the adjustment sleeve since the sleeve allowes the tierods to be adjusted inward until they are bottoming out on each other. Well, I've already cut off about 1/2" of the inner tierods to allow for correct adjustment.

What puzzles me is why the AFX spindle steering arm isn't correct for the application.

[Derek69SS]

I wouldn't worry much about any of it until you get wheels on, and the car off stands. You can't get anything close to accurate settings or clearances at full-droop.

[64Chevelle]

I wouldn't worry much about any of it until you get wheels on, and the car off stands. You can't get anything close to accurate settings or clearances at full-droop.

Point taken, I do have a tendency to worry too much, this is my first build after all, but I'm learning a lot from it, much thanks you the excellent help on this forum.

[b-man]

Thanks a lot, good tip there. That means the swaybar will mount BELOW the tierods, right? My immediate thought is that the angle of the end link bolt will be far from optimal, but it might not be such a big issue after all

Have you done this mod yet?

Right now the new front end parts I bought will have to wait until the engine and trans (LS3/4L70E) are in the car. Soon I'll be replacing my B-body spindles and Hotchkis upper control arms with all of the new ATS and SPC parts, can't wait to get this thing put together.

Here's a pic of my '64 Tempest front suspension as it sits now hanging down with no weight on it, this might help give you an idea of where your sway bar will end up. The sway bar pictured is a factory 1.25" 2nd-gen T/A unit:

[Randy67]

Thanks a lot, good tip there. That means the swaybar will mount BELOW the tierods, right? My immediate thought is that the angle of the end link bolt will be far from optimal, but it might not be such a big issue after all

Have you done this mod yet?

I checked my car last night to see if I could put the bar below the tierods, but not enough room on mine (Stage II setup, stock spindles). The bar would just fit with no room to spare. I ended up keeping the bar above the tierods and used a 4" spacer length on the endlink to make it work. Any more than that and the sway bar may start hitting the frame when the suspension is compressed. I will be keeping an eye on mine to make sure it isn't hitting. The bar is a 1-1/8" 2nd gen F-body one, BTW.