power steering cooler

[81 trans-am]

Would It be of benefit to use the trans cooler built in to my radiator as a power steering cooler. My car has an Lt1/t56 combo and the ps pump is on the passanger side next to the tranny cooler. And the remote resivouir can be mounted higher than the top line to prevent drain back. I have done a search and could not find a definite answer.
Thanks
Karl

[funcars]

Sometimes it's easier to use a separate cooler and that way you don't add to the thermal load of the radiator. Power steering coolers don't need to be really big so they are easy to package.

[silver69camaro]

The added heat to the radiator should not be a problem at all due to the minimal PS fluid capacity. However, is is generally recommended that these are not used as PS coolers because of the flow restriction. A good PS pump should not need a cooler at all.

[81 trans-am]

Thanks for the replies. I guess i'll buy another cooler.

[WS6]

You can get one off an LS1 Fbody. It's the aluminum thing that was in the upper radiator hose on many of those cars. I believe they had to be SS or WS6 cars. Those work well for what they do. Matt is right though, a good PS pump won't need a cooler. If your pump is stock, it's not a good pump. It spins too fast is what ti comes down to. So doing auto cross duty will kill it and or over heat the fluid. Turn One has finally made an LT1 pump and it's a great piece. http://www.turnone-steering.com/lt1.html These guys know their stuff

[MonzaRacer]

No use an open air one, I like finding old 70s Ford cars supper tough.

[68sixspeed]

Turn One is good stuff, but the cooler is still a must for road race applications.

[silver69camaro]

Turn One is good stuff, but the cooler is still a must for road race applications.

Not always, with a good pump. With my KRC pump and a decent resevoir & fluid, it doesn't overheat after 45 minutes of lapping.

[68sixspeed]

Not always, with a good pump. With my KRC pump and a decent resevoir & fluid, it doesn't overheat after 45 minutes of lapping.

Are you running slicks? Jump over onto CC's and the road-race section on corvetteforum-- it's a common problem, even with a good pump. It does depend a lot on the car, track, etc.

[bret]

We installed the Turn One pumps on our autocross cars at the beginning of last year and solved all of our power steering fluid problems.

[BonzoHansen]

You can get one off an LS1 Fbody. It's the aluminum thing that was in the upper radiator hose on many of those cars. I believe they had to be SS or WS6 cars.

I just sold one off a parts car I stripped. I can't imagine it is very useful and looks like a pretty good rad hose restriction.

Edit: Here is a cross sectional pic I took.

[ProBell]

Just put a cooler on and it solved my problems. The one I used was simple. Basically it is a 1" tube with cooling fins that is 10" long. Just but it in the return line.

[silver69camaro]

Are you running slicks? Jump over onto CC's and the road-race section on corvetteforum-- it's a common problem, even with a good pump. It does depend a lot on the car, track, etc.

99% of those guys are using stock pumps. You gotta have a good pump! I'm on CC everyday.

KRC, in my opinion, makes the best power steering pump available today. They cater to all types of NASCAR and road race applications, and they don't carry any type of cooler nor do they ever recommend one. A good pump combined with a properly designed steering system and hydraulic circuit should not require a pump.

[68sixspeed]

Matt- maybe you just need to drive a little harder

A cut and paste from TurnOne on a c5z corvette discussion-
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When we put high loads on our steering systems at the track, this increases the pressure/loads on the power steering pump. The power steering pump does have a bypass valve built into it if the pressure/loads become too large for it to handle. However, once the power steering pump starts activating that bypass valve, it won't last very long before the pump fails.

Turn One offers a couple of different pumps for our cars. One is their standard pump and the other is an upgraded pump designed for people who run big, fat, sticky front tires on the front of their cars (this is the one I ordered of course). It sounds to me like their upgraded pump is:

1) Designed to operate at higher pressure
2) Requires less horsepower to operate
3) Will reduce power steering fluid temps for guys like us around 20 degF

The upgraded pump costs a little more than there standard pump. I don't recall the exact number but it was around $50. The upgraded pump costs $275. They also offer pumps for us with AN fittings rather than the fittings our cars use when stock. And they have an aluminum pulley for $65 which has slots cut into the pulley disk which allow access to the pump mounting bolts. This allows the pump to be removed without taking the pulley off.

I asked if he felt we needed a larger power steering fluid cooler. He said he didn't really know, but the magic temp for power steering fluid is 275 degF. So what we should do is do some hot laps and then come in and measure the fluid temp. If it is under 275 degF, we're fine. If it is over, then we need a larger cooler. Because the cooler is on the return side of the power steering circuit, the fluid running through the cooler is on the order of 30 psi so we don't need any type of cooler which can tolerate high pressures. A regular engine oil cooler is fine.
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The c5 and c6 z06's all came with PS coolers for a reason, and a lot of us tracking the non-z cars have to add them. A lot of BMW's come with them too, I doubt if they spent the $ at the factory for no reason. It's maybe not a must for everyone, but if you've ever had PS give out in the twisties, it's not a pleasant thing. The cooler fixed my issues on both the 68 and my c5.

[silver69camaro]

The c5 and c6 z06's all came with PS coolers for a reason, and a lot of us tracking the non-z cars have to add them. A lot of BMW's come with them too, I doubt if they spent the $ at the factory for no reason. It's maybe not a must for everyone, but if you've ever had PS give out in the twisties, it's not a pleasant thing. The cooler fixed my issues on both the 68 and my c5.

Again, use a good pump! You can't compare a OE pump to a quality pump built for this purpose. My BMW 330i PS fluid gets way hotter than the Camaro during lapping, and it only has 225mm front tires, versus 275mm on the Camaro.

If you use a OE pump, yes you will probably have to use a cooler. If you use a good purpose-built pump, you shouldn't have to.

[parsonsj]

I talked with Jeff at TurnOne about this problem-- at length. My AFR stuff was overheating, and my ps would go away after just a few laps on an autoX. It lasted longer on a big track, but failed when I came into the pits.

Jeff convinced me to try one of his pumps without a cooler. I haven't had a problem since.

Jeff explained that the primary cause of heat in ps systems is cavitation. Solve the cavitation, and it removes the heat problem. It worked for me, so far.

jp

[andrewb70]

I just sold one off a parts car I stripped. I can't imagine it is very useful and looks like a pretty good rad hose restriction.

Edit: Here is a cross sectional pic I took.

Those cores are made by Laminova, they are very efficient.

Andrew

[BonzoHansen]

Damn. Oh well, they are easy to get.

I'd still think they represent a water restriction. That upper hose is not too big to start with.

[Jim Nilsen]

I am considering putting a temp sensor on my PS remote tank. i have the room on my Racepak setup for more sensors and keep telling myself that a sensor at the PS is a lot more important than monitoring the rear temp.

What do you guys think since this thread is about PS temp ?

[parsonsj]

Jim,

PS heat is a real problem, and having a gauge on it can give you a warning before it fails.

The same is true in the rear, but I haven't heard as much about possible problems there.

If it were me, I'd do the ps pump first. Maybe put sensors in both, and switch the gauge back and forth?

jp