"After the Fire" 1968 Firebird

[dlrepmn]

Thank you for a bunch of inspiration. The rides on here are truly spectacular.

After quite a few years I have decided to take my baby the Pro-Touring route.

Introducing "After the Fire".

This is my 1968 Firebird Sprint that I received for my high school graduation present in 1985. I have kept her all these years. When I got her there was 63,000 miles on it. Now over 72,000. I used it for everyday transportation to college one year until the first winter and found out I needed something that I didn't want to sacrifice to a Michigan Winter.

I didn't name her. The guys at the paint shop did. Back in 1992 I slept peacefully in my rental condo and the next morning found that someone had set my car cover on fire. Firefighters couldn't find out who owned it. The only thing that wasn't burned was the roof and the deck lid. Anything plastic on the car was melted. I was devastated. My car was charcoal.

I took the car to Jimmy Lewis of Lewis Collision in Houghton Lake Michigan. I told Jimmy to just paint it so I could sell it. He asked if we wanted to take it full boat with the subframe off and I said no, just get it to a point where I can sell it.

Needless to say when it was done it was so pretty I couldn't sell it. They had the car for 1 1/2 years. It wasn't until a few years ago that I found out they had named it "After the Fire". We have had him paint my dad's '34 3 window and my uncle's 60 Bentley.

I have had this motor (4.1 Liter OHC) out and back in 3 times since I have had the car. New cam, lifters, seals, you name it. Very oily motor (which helped in the long run under the car). I kept it original since 1985.

Fast forward to 2008. I have lived in Minnesota for 12 years. Now I have 4 kids and not a dime for the car. I still kept it though. I drove it about 4 times a year.

I go to "Back to the Fifties" and "Car Craft Nationals" which always provided inspiration. I moved from Motor City to Hot Rod City.

I had purchased a basket case 1940 Ford Pickup to go to 50's with. It was a heap. I was over my head. I purchased a full street rod frame from from Total Cost Involved in California. It sat, it sat, the wife complained, the wife complained.



Well I took it to 50's last year and sold the thing and probably lost a grand on the whole deal (thankfully).

I did build a motor for my truck though. A 383 Stroker Chevy motor. Yes, a Chevy for a Ford.

I did it full out. They needed a roof. I needed a motor for my truck. It ended up as the motor builder's display in the Minneapolis Boat Show. Everything is chrome or polished.

I could never dig into the Bird since the Pontiac guys were GA-GA over the very rare Sprint (only 1600 made in 1968). Yes, it was the 210HP four speed with the 4 barrel (H cam) true dual exhaust. I had 2 offers for the car at Car Craft. I called the wife and said "here you go, money". I get a new corvette!. She said don't sell the car, the car is you.

Between Pro-Touring.com and Car Craft I found inspiration. I told her that if we were keeping it I was going to put some money into the car.

Well, now we have a Quadra-Link being installed with Detroit Speed and Engineering mini-tubs. A Chris Alston Chassisworks complete show subframe power rack with 6 piston Wilwood brakes all around. Vintage air with Billet Specialties pulley kit. An Ididit tilt column. 12" BFG KDW 2's on the back and 10" on the front. A narrowed 12 bolt. A Tremec 5 Speed. And I am on the edge of two toning the car black with the original red on the bottom. I have decided on Intro Wheels Vista 2's that I am trying to get Year One to anodize the spokes black to resemble a Pontiac Rally wheel, but 18's and polished. We are blasting and painting under the car and engine compartment which I should have done in the beginning.

I am using AJ' from Overhaulin's "Lady Bird" for a lot of ideas. I know, its still bitch'n for a girl car. Mine is for sure a boy car. I am even installing the 2002 Camaro seats with the headrests removed. Changing from a white standard interior to a black deluxe with power windows and power locks.

I found the Hot Rod Factory at Car Craft Nationals. I went over with a neighbor to buy a 1970 Chevelle Malibu that he is turning into an SS. I was impressed with their open house.

Too late now, there is no turning back now. Yes, there will be a Chevy in a Pontiac, sorry. It did pull over 400HP and over 450lbs of torque on the dyno just last month. Sorry, I am just going to have to deal with it. This is more torque than AJ's LS3.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea...ird/index.html

I am going to fill in all the 4.1 badges and replace my rockers with plain no emblems.

Here is "After the Fire"

http://www.hotrodfactory.net/groups/...ges.php?aid=58

Scott in Minnesota

[Motown 454]

Welcome you've come to the right place . Keep us updated on your progress.

[T_Raven]

nice project. i must say i'm against the 383. small blocks are so played out unless the car originally came with one. but do what you gotta do.

my 67 was an inline 6 with 3 on the tree though not a sprint. they are cool engines for an old L6. i've considered turbo charging it and putting it back in. i've got an ls1 and t56 that will go in it.

can't wait to see some progress

[Steve Firebird]

Sounds like I nice project.

[T_Raven]

i just reread your post. i didn't read it right the first time and thought you were putting the 383 out of the truck in it. what engine are you using?

[gto406]

Sounds like a Chebby. Shame all these Poncho's are getting polluted with corporate motors. Sorry, the only Chev's in Poncho's should be in the Canadian Pontiac's (i.e. Beaumont's, Acadians, etc.). Bird's came with Poncho engines. You are seeing fewer & fewer with the original motors.

If I were you I would at least 'hold on' to the Sprint drivetrain. That combo (particularly with the 4bbl) is rare. Perhaps the next guy will want to put it back in the car (see Hot Rod's 'Dare to be different').


Check last months Hot Rod, if you want fuel injection, it is possible to do it on just about any motor you want these days.

Good luck with the project,
Brian
'72 GTO
(staying 'real' with the Poncho mill the car came with)

[dlrepmn]

Yes, it is a Chevy. I actually don't even know what it is out of actually. The engine builder put it together for his street rod project than never got off the ground. The builder ran up to me when I dropped it off to dyno it and immediately recognized it and said "I built that one."

You must realize I agonized over this decision for 23 years. I had this sucker out 3 times and it is just a horribly oily motor. It gets all over my firewall, the block, the distributor, floors. I have done seals, lifters, cam, you name it. I ran this motor since 1985 with much frustration. You have to give me some partial credit for that. I drove my Pontiac in Pontiac, MI for years.

Now that inliners are just really beginning to get cool and supercharging a 4.1 would be supercool. Yes, it is in the corner of my shop. Yes, I have already had offers for it and the Hurst 4 speed and it still sitting there.

I actually had plans for a GTO donor motor/trans transplant. Now the trendy thing to do seems to be an LS3 or LS7 transplant. Yes, some did come in the new GTO, but is it really a Pontiac mill in the old sense?

I can change the setup on the CA Chassisworks subframe to install a new generation motor, but a 502/572 seems to be popular too. Also over $10,000.00. I paid less than $3000.00 for a 400HP/450ftlb motor that is fully polished thanks to my little barter with the builder. The rest is going into the suspension/trans/interior/rims, etc.. We're way over $30,000 and 100 hours into the car and I don't even have the motor in yet.

I did have this motor just sitting on the floor unused. I built it for my '40 Ford Pickup (given up and sold project). I can always sell it later.

After the mini-tubs there is no turning back. Be realistic, what would you rather restore a 350, 400, or 455 or a 4.1 OHC Sprint car? 210HP? I wanted some more. Is it bad to want more?

It just simply costs way more to build a old Pontiac motor. I respect your opinions since I had the same ones for my entire life. There used to be a understanding that only numbers matching cars mattered. Life has changed.

Restomod is now much more popular. Why not have a car that handles like a new car? I thought that was the whole purpose of Pro-Touring?

Trust me I have driven this car with manual steering, manual drum brakes for years (they just failed, what fun that was). With the bolt on suspension parts and quadralink rear, fat tires, why not? A new Tremec 5 speed is going back in, not the Muncie 4. This is better right?

I am doing this and keeping my 1995 paintjob, for now anyway. There isn't a chip on it. I am trying to stick to a budget which is difficult when building a car. I have the money, but I am also trying to keep this reasonable and a drivable car as much as possible.

I have a customer with a Lemans that he has over $12,000 into the Indian powerplant. He said he would never do it again with the availability and cost of the new crate motors. He also was a die hard Pontiac guy. It just doesn't make financial sense like it used to.

So to review, I have sinned O'Lord! Please forgive me, but give me dependable inexpensive power for my pro-touring muscle car.

I will just have to keep the hood closed at the Pontiac events.

Sorry! No malcontent intended or implied.

Scott in Minnesota

[Steve Firebird]

Scott don't let it bother you. I am a die hard Pontiac guy and I say use what you have and enjoy it. Its not like you came to a pure Pontiac site and started tring to pick a fight. This is a PT site. I get tired of guys ripping on others that don't do what they think is right or cool with there owns cars. I also get allitle tired of hearing how Pontiac engine are not worth rebuilding ect.. I say to each his own and you can park next to my Firebird any time with you hood up.

[67SSDan]

Ah.... this is going to be cool. I'm a fan of those early 'birds.



Keep us posted.

Dan

[dlrepmn]

Steve you make a lot of sense.

Consider a lawn chair and a beverage reserved for you anytime.

With the hood up of course. Have fun with what you brought.

Thanks,

Scott in Minnesota

[NOT A TA]

Scott don't let it bother you. I am a die hard Pontiac guy and I say use what you have and enjoy it. Its not like you came to a pure Pontiac site and started tring to pick a fight. This is a PT site. I get tired of guys ripping on others that don't do what they think is right or cool with there owns cars. I also get allitle tired of hearing how Pontiac engine are not worth rebuilding ect.. I say to each his own and you can park next to my Firebird any time with you hood up.

Amen

I'm running a Pontiac engine in my Firebird but I'm gonna need 650-700 HP to run the speeds I want to go at land speed racing and open road racing events. It'll be a tough decision whether or not to go over to the "corporate" engines which can be less expensive to build to that level. I keep hoping I'll run across a "deal" on an IA II but it's not likely.

[1968CamaroSS_Sam]

The car is looking great. Love the color. Please keep us posted.

[T_Raven]

Don't take offense on the engine thing buddy. you've already got your 383 so go ahead and use it. i personally like to see things that are less common. such as the 68 camaro with the twin turbo small block ford that was in popular hot rodding may 08. i personally like the looks of a pontiac engine. i also like the placement of the spark plugs though the head design isn't as efficient with the exhaust port that low. i also don't feel that a pontiac engine is necessarily more expensive than a chevy when you consider that small blocks have less cubes and big blocks are heavier and just as expensive to build. anyway, just sharing some thoughts. can't wait to see some progress pics of your car.

[dlrepmn]

Thanks to everyone for the support. I dig a new hemi too, but then everyone would really have a heart attack.

I have been seeing them more and more in some "dare to be different" cars.



No offense taken. I am still going to have fun with it.

http://hotrodfactory.net/groups/list_images.php?aid=58

Scott in Minnesota

[dlrepmn]

My 12 bolt housing and the subframe is being sent out to be powdercoated this week and I have to take my new rear bumper over today. Rich is also going to use parts of my old inner fenders to extend the new inners to better fit around the new lower profile/position upper control arms.

They are pretty much ready to paint underneath the car and the engine compartment.

I am still waiting to see if my front bumper can be rechromed. The rear was toast, but they had another original GM core that they had already done that was not an repop.

Have a great day!

Scott in Minnesota

[dlrepmn]

The red color is actually a Chrysler color off a color chart when we painted it in 1995.

Had I known there were going to be so many pictures I would have washed the car before I took it over. A year of garage dust since I pulled the 4.1.

It surely looks much better clean, but I was exited to take it over.

Scott in Minnesota

[gto406]

No disrespect to you (or anyone running Chev's) Scott. You should run what you have, and the Chev is a very good motor.

For me, it is just heart-breaking not to see the old Poncho mills in there, so please don't mind a little despair on my part. I am sure the car will absolutely 'rock' ;^)

Not-A-TA, I think you can achieve the power levels you are looking for without going to an IAII. If you need a good Poncho engine builder, I can refer you to a guy in Canada. With the CDN $ back in the 'dumper' (it was .81 cents US last time I checked) you would get good value.

With the parts/knowledge available now, I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to make 600+hp with a normally aspirated Poncho (e.g. a 406, or larger). You should even be able to reach the bottom end of those power levels with a good set of ported D-Ports. The aftermarket has gotten alot better, and there are some really excellent builders out there making good power with Pontiac motors.

Remember, Pontiac's have torque, good for powering out of corners!

Best of luck,
Brian
'72 GTO.

[dlrepmn]

They should have painted the bottom of the car and the engine compartment yesterday.

I got a phone call from Kevin at Ghostworks at Year One today. I am trying to get all the interior parts lined up. These are the folks that built "Lady Bird" that I am using some ideas from. I just dig the look of the car. That was my final inspiration to get off the pot on this project.

Ordering the wheels (vistas) this week from Intro. The tires are on order. The only thing missing from the front suspension is the power rack from CA Chassisworks. OOOOOUUUUUCCCCCHHHH!!!
Show clip with 14" Wilwood drilled and slotted rotors and 6 piston calipers over $8500.00.

Tire sizes are 235-35-18 front and 315-30-18. Big boys for a boy car.

The Tremec TKO600 has arrived. Centerforce Clutch, bellhousing. Time to order the Billet Specialties Tru-Trax system. Another OOOOUUUUCCCCHHH!!!

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea.../photo_07.html

I started looking at a Billet Specialties wheel the roulette, but they are even more expensive and I was set on the Intros anyway. More like a Pontiac Rally than any other.

Believe it or not I turned down an offer from my dad years ago to tub the car and put a 455 in it and I declined to keep the car original with the 4.1 Liter OHC.

My builder had a sweet LS3 that supposedly has 535HP for another customer. Maybe I could put some GTO engine covers on it. Maybe even the Firebird covers once the new one comes out in 2011 like I think it will. There will be a new car payment.

Very tempted. May still do it in another year or two. First things first.

I will be at Car Craft Nationals this year with the car. That's my goal.

Now it's time to put it back together. I have new pics, but I can't figure how to get them on this page.

Thanks for the support guys. Even though I have sinned I still feel really good and very excited about the project.

Scott in Minnesota

[dlrepmn]

trying pics

[dlrepmn]

Trying pics again larger this time