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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Posts
      1,454
      Country Flag: United States

      Holley Stealth Ram Fuel Injection With Commander 950

      Got it and thinking of putting it on my 400hp motor. Anyone ever use this setup? Thoughts? Also, it came with 24lb injectors. Will this support 400 hp or do I need bigger injectors?

      Thanks
      Mark
      TOOFUN



    2. #2
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Lees Summit, Missouri
      Posts
      843
      PM Andrewb70, I believe that he used this system on his Goat. You also may want to search through some older post, this system has been talked about before. Good luck.
      Later - Craig

      [email protected]

      '70 Chevelle (in storage now, probably will never be back on its wheels again!)

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
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      15,971
      Country Flag: United States
      I used the Commander 950 on my GTO, but with a single plane manifold. The 24 pound injectors are a little on the small side for 400HP. You may want to step up to some 30s. You will love tuning with the wideband O2 sensor. It is a piece of cake!

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Aug 2001
      Location
      Wilton, CA. (Sacramento)
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      2,995
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      I'd go the bigger injectors. We just put one on my friends Procharged small block trying to eliminate a reversion/lean spot that would not tune out. It actually worked, the spot is gone. Plus it's a pretty cool looking setup.

      Jody

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Dec 2004
      Location
      Scottsdale, AZ
      Posts
      743
      Country Flag: United States
      How do you guys like the Holley Commander efi set up. I have it in my boat with the 2000 cfm TB on a 540 and so far it looks like i'm going to have to send the ECU back to Holley for repair. For some reason I cannot access the ECU. The engine shop dyno'd the engine, Then it wet to the boat shop. They mounted the ECU and pluged it together and while it does's run OK it needs to be tweaked because the engine seems to be down about a 100 HP. I took the boat back to the engine shop and they went ot plug the computer to the port and a big no go. Not getting any signal. We tested the cord and it looks good. Anyone else have any problems?

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
      Posts
      15,971
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      Give Holley support a call. If you have the password set, that may cause a problem. Also make sure that your software is configured properly to communicate with the C950 ECU. Make sure the right comm port is selected and that you are not having any issues with a USB to serial adapter if you are using one.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Dec 2004
      Location
      Scottsdale, AZ
      Posts
      743
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by andrewb70
      Give Holley support a call. If you have the password set, that may cause a problem. Also make sure that your software is configured properly to communicate with the C950 ECU. Make sure the right comm port is selected and that you are not having any issues with a USB to serial adapter if you are using one.

      Andrew

      Thanks for your help, I just talked to Holley and they told me about the back door way in if the program has been locked. Now I've got to go get the boat out of storage and hook everything up to see if that works. What a pain in the ass.

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Posts
      1,454
      Country Flag: United States

      Hey Andrew

      Is there anything that is not included in the kit that I should know about? Besides the nose filter cone. What about running a return fuel line? Do I need to do that? My car is a convertible and I dont think it has a return line in it. I know the hard top camaros did, but know it is different for the convertibles.It does look really good. Anythoughts on the best way to do this?

      Thanks
      Toofun

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
      Posts
      15,971
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      As withany EFI system, a return line is required. The best solution is a hardline plumbed from the engine compartment to the tank. Other than the air filter, the kits are very complete. I can't think of anything that might hold you up. One thing that I would suggest adding is a fuel pressure gauge at the rail, or better yet, a remote mounted gauge in the passanger compartment.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Posts
      1,454
      Country Flag: United States

      Where does the return line go?

      OK,

      So I need to run a return line? Where do I run it to? My car has the original fuel tank and only one line coming off the top of the sending unit. Do I need to replace the existing sending unit withone with two lines? or do I need to fabricate a line into the tank. What is the best way to do this? Any help would be appreciated.

      Thanks
      mark
      TOOFUN

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
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      15,971
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      There are several ways to run a return line. The simplest way would be how you just stated. Get a sender with a return line and run a line from the engine compartment to the tank. Make sure the return line is the same size as the feed line. 3/8" should work real well.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Posts
      1,454
      Country Flag: United States

      a dual line

      Hey andrew thanks for the info. The only question I have is do I get an original dual line from a camaro restoration house or do I have to find a different one from some where else. I know some of the sending units in the year one book have another line to it but it seems that the extra line is for venting. Do I just use this line for a return? Some people talk about baffling and a sump. Is this neccessary? I am not track racing the car it is for street use only. Thanks again for your help.

      Mark
      TOOFUN

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
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      If your budget allows it, the most ideal way, in my opinion is to have a new stock tank sumped and have an in-tank pump installed. Thats is the setup I have on the GTO. Another option is to have a whole new tank made with an in-tank pump. Rock Valley can do both.

      In this picture:

      http://www.lateral-g.net/borodin/E006sm.jpg

      you can see the sump in the bottom of my tank. The sump also gives the tank the extra height to install the pump inside the tank.

      In the trunk there is an access panel that allows to easy removal of the pump if it fails.

      If something like that is not in the budget, then you can use a dual line sender. I know my 70 GTO had a return line from the factory. Just make sure both lines at 3/8 inch.

      Andrew
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Posts
      582
      If it's street only you don't need a custom tank, just fill up at a 1/4 tank.

      The return line can be smaller than the supply, and in fact typically are on the vast majority of OE cars that I've looked at. 3/8" supply and 5/16" return is very common.

      I used the vapor line as a return on my nova and never had a problem

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
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      The in tank pump is by no means a necessity, but a nice luxury. It keeps the pump cool and there is always a fresh supply of fuel at the pickup. With 400 HP 3/8 line might be a little overkill, but if you were to upgrade your engine in the future you would be all set.

      On my LS6 Mazda RX7 I am using the stock hard line in the car. It was about 7-8mm O.D. and I am not having any issues with fuel delivery using a 255L/hour Walbro (same as your Holley) pump.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Posts
      582
      Quote Originally Posted by andrewb70
      The in tank pump is by no means a necessity, but a nice luxury.
      True dat. I'd choose that route everytime if money, time and resources would allow it, it's definitely the more "correct" method, no argument there. On the other hand, hundreds or even thousands of vehicles converted to EFI using a basic external pumps and no tank baffling whatsoever show that it can be pretty reliable on a mild street car. I'd just hate to see this fella drop close to a grand on something he won't really need.

    17. #17
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Posts
      1,454
      Country Flag: United States

      thanks

      Thanks Guys,

      Really appreciate the info. Think for the time being I will use a sending unit with two lines and connect it that way. One other question. Can I use fuel line and hose clamps to make the connections between the tank line and the hard line going to the engine compartment? Is there a better way(safer way) Just worried about it being able to handle the pressure generated by the fuel injection. As you can tell I am new to this.

      Thanks
      Mark
      Toofun

    18. #18
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Posts
      582
      There again, it's a level of detail thing I guess. That's what I have on my beater nova is rubber hose and clamps, so far no problems. If you want to go that route, here's a few suggestions to make sure it works:

      1. Use the high quality EFI style hose clamps (Available at most parts stores). They are not worm drive, more of a "band" with a screw/nut affair, and are smooth so that they don't cut into the rubber.
      2. Use high quality hose. Most of the SAE J30R7 carbureted hose is trash. It hardens and cracks when subjected to the continuous re-circulation of return-style efi systems. SAE J30R9 is specifically designed for efi systems. However, it's also around $4 a foot. Oddly enough, and purely by accident I found out that transmission line, grade SAE J100R6, works really well, and is around $1.50 a foot. So that would work too
      3. Don't clamp around un-flared steel line. that's asking for trouble. Always use rubber line on a barb fitting. Single, rounded barbs are actually preferable for rubber hose. The sharp barbs cut into the rubber. All fuel lines are made multi-layer, and the R9 hose has many layers. If it was all made of the fuel resistant material, it'd be $50 a foot, so they have a thin inner layer and a thin outer layer. If you cut through this (which you probably will once you try to remove the hose from a mult-barb fitting) then when put it back on it may start to degrade. It won't fall apart instantly, but over months or years. The rounded barbs will allow to remove and re-attach the hose as needed without trimming the end (Which is a good thing with this more expensive hose that you may not want to replace). Multi-barbs could be used if you are willing to replace the entire length of hose should you need to undo the junction.

      Obviously AN fittings provide another level of security and simplicity. Done correctly, rubber hose can be just as reliable.

    19. #19
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
      Posts
      15,971
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      The hard line coming out of the tank will have a short piece of rubber hose on it that goes to the pump. This line is low pressure, since it is sucking from the tank. Try to mount the pump as close to the tank as possible and no higher than the centerline of the tank. They sell EFI rated rubber hose at the parts store. From the pump you want a short piece of hose going to the hard line that goes to the engine compartment. Slide the hose on the line an inch or more and use good clamps, and you should be good to go.

      There are other more elaborate and expensive solutions, but this will get you down the road safely and quickly.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    20. #20
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Location
      Sydney, Australia
      Posts
      1,798
      Country Flag: Australia
      Hi, first post here....

      I used to have a 70 Camaro RS/SS with a worked SBC with TPI. It used a Haltech ECU.
      It was set up with the pump at the rear feeding full pressure all the way down, but I was in the process of having a "surge" tank arrangement made up that would place a smallish tank in the engine bay, using a low pressure pump at the rear to keep it full and the high pressure EFI pump would only feed from this tank to the engine. The return line would be back into the surge tank. this would keep the HP part of the circuit fairly small, easy to plumb in quality line etc....and eleminate the surging problems I had at lower tank levels due to the stock pick up.
      I agree that theres more involved in this....and some more cost....but I thought it a better way to go to improve the car...especially during higher speed cornering.
      One thing to consider may be fuel temps from circulating back into the surge tank....a cooler might be something to think about.....only actual experience with this set up would tell.
      I was very impressed with EFI on the Camaro.... it was one of the nicest responding cars I've owned and very good on fuel, for a worked engine with 3.7 rear gears...lol. I'm looking at doing injection on my Pontiac when I build an engine for it....next project.

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