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03-12-2008 #1Registered User
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
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- Chesapeake, VA
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- 608
Chassis stiffening--full frame car
Searching and reading I see very extensive discussion of how to stiffen a unibody car, and it's very interesting stuff. What is the best approach if you're working with a full-frame car? I'd like to specify a budget that doesn't allow for full replacement frames like the amazing pieces from Art Morrison and no roll cage. My thoughts are to start with a welded X frame to brace the frame rails and a shock crossmember in the axle kick up area to prevent spreading. Thoughts on these and other modifications?
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03-13-2008 #2An x brace welded at or around the mid point of the chassis will help with torsional rigidity. Aswell, if the frame is an open C chanel, boxing it will help with torsional and longitudinal (ie from front to rear) stiffness. As far as adding extra cross members, you should look at where the loads are being applied to the frame.
The most obvious are the suspension mounting points. Where the springs and effective control arms, be it front or rear, are areas of high loads, obvioulsy.
Another area of significant loading is the engine and trans mounting points. The torque of the engine will, to a degree, twist the frame. If you can increase the strength of the frame in these locations, aswell as spread the load out along a greater area of the frame, the frame will be able to better handle this load.
To effectivly add overall stiffness to the chassis think about how the loads are being applied at these high stress areas. If the load is mostly verticle, brace for verticle. The same goes for horizontal loads, either longitudinal or latteral. The main goal is to spread the loads from these points into a larger area (stress=force/area, increase the area=less stress). Although this may sound very simple the exicution is a bit tougher. Packaging is always a limiting factor.
A good way to cope the loads place on a chassis is to distribute it through the body. A role cage, that ties into both front and rear of the chassis will counteract the bending moment longitudinaly, aswell as increase torsional stiffness. You mentioned you would like to stay away from a 'cage. So, as you stated, an x brace will work great. If you can manage to build a backbone structure going along the transmition tunnel, that would be great aswell (but if you don't want a cage, its likely this isn't an option either). Also, running square tubing along the inside of the rocker panels and tieing into the frame for. and aft. the passenger compartment will aid in longitudinal rigidity. Solid body mounts and reinforced body mounts also help to spread the load into the body. If you want to get really carried away, you can reinforce the body around the mounting points aswell.
This is a really novice analysis of chassis stress. I'm sure many other members can more eligently explain (with fewer spelling mistakes to boot) what is really happening in a full frame car. I hope this gives you an idea of what needs to be done to increase the strenght of your frame.
cheers bbcc
03-13-2008 #3Starting The Transformation- Join Date
- Jun 2005
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- 467
What type of car? I like the X-frame idea but would probably go bolt-in unless you figured out some clever way to keep it in place while you dropped the exhaust and driveshaft. Boxing the frame is useful, and I've added gussets or boxing to key suspension pickup points. Some of the other G-body guys swear that a rear seatback stiffener really makes a difference, and we all have some braces from other G-bodies for front suspension, radiator and (in my case) radiator support to drip tray reinforcement bars. Ralph (Buick GN) showed up at my house last weekend with some rear bumper mount tie bar, and you could do the same on the front.
Lots of options - need to weigh the alternatives (literally).
JimDon't take a knife to a gunfight.
Half-Assed = Half-Fast
03-14-2008 #4on a g-body, the front and rear bumper bars are a great first step. I was amazed at the difference this simple mod makes.
currently, I have my frame separated from the body, so I'll be doing some stiffening as well, i'm interested to see what folks have to say. so far I'll be boxing in the c-channel. does anybody have photos of an x-brace on a frame? preferably home-made? :D
03-14-2008 #5Registered User- Join Date
- Jul 2006
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- Chesapeake, VA
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- 608
In my case I'm referring to a '57 Chevy frame although I purposely kept my question vague in hopes that the discussion could be applied widely. For familiarity this http://www.trifive.com/garage/55%20C...anual/2-15.gif would be it. As you can see it has a really massive front crossmember and boxed rails but little else to give it strength. I was considering a crossmember with X legs that would hit the frame rails at the front spring hangar and transmission bellhousing mounts, which will be removed. Trans would be mounted either to the crossmember or to a drop out that would bolt between the front X legs. Shocks will be relocated to a crossmember in the axle kick to reduce flexing. That can be fairly severe and cars that have had air shocks very frequently have cracks in the trunk pan. This will be a street car that I want to be able to drive hard and maybe do an occasional autocross or open track day for fun as opposed to a hard core track car so I don't want the intrusion of a roll cage. That said I'm not a restorer and have no problem with modifications including to the floor pan. Would it help to run rectangular tube from the front spring hangar, between the outside body mounts, to the front body mount that's located in the narrowed part of the frame behind the front crossmember?
03-15-2008 #6Dave we seem to be heading down about the same path as of now. I, too, am getting ready to pull the body off the frame for new poly mounts and while off box the frame along with cleaning/painting the underbody. If you happen to find any outside info on this, I'd be interested in it too.
I also used the bars that tie the frame rails together and was amazed at how such a simple 5 min mod could stiffen so much!
DougDoug Gulley
66 C10 383, AFR 190, Accel SuperRam, Hyd Roller 230*/236* 280XFI, aftermarket T56, *under construction*
02-05-2009 #7Registered User- Join Date
- Feb 2009
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- 36