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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Nov 2007
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      northern california
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      388

      chassis jig design

      i want to build a chassis table for building all kinds of cars- Currently im working on a 25.5 chassis for a drag car- BUt i would also like to use it for building street cars. Im tired of shimming jack stands on the ground- Ive seen a few different designs and was wondering about advantages and disadvantages.

      My buddy wrecked his fuel dragster and he had to front half a spitzer chassis- He built a twin 3x4 I beam jig over 25 ft long- After he was done he gave it to me so I cut it down to 15 ft or so- Its basically 2 parallel I beams 12 inchs apart- mounted to legs that can be adjusted to make it level.

      If i were to stick with the I beams of coarse I would need to spread them apart- Ive seen i beam tables- Square tube tables- Tables with plate over the top of them- WHat have you built, used, like and why? GOt any pictures of what youve got? thanks in advance

      Scotts Speed and Custom

      norcal1320.com


    2. #2
      Join Date
      Jan 2002
      Location
      Italy
      Posts
      746
      I would not do a plate type jig due to the fact that its hard to get under under the car to weld.
      Have Fun!
      André

      2009 Chrysler 300C Touring.
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      one 125cc one cylinder and one will be 350cc two cylinder.

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Feb 2005
      Posts
      14
      Twin I-beams is the way to go. As Tiger said you can get under there and weld better. I've run a slider plate on an I-beam setup before. Basically it's a flat piece of steel that can slide on the rails and I tighten it into place with two long bolts under the rails. Think of it like a roller coaster cart. I like this because I can hang plum bobs down and mark them as I need to, but also gives me that flat surface if I need it. Most of the time it's for when I'm setting ride height and have the wheels and tires up there without the suspension bolted up yet.

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      Central CA USA
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      6,108
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      Twin I beams sounds good to me. I have seen some chassis jigs used for Vintage Race Monocoque cars, and they were I beams. Don't weld them, bolt them onto stands that are adjustable so you can level the jig. Welding will distort the jig.
      David
      67 Camaro RS that will be faster than anything Mary owns.

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
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      I used some "H" beams a friend gave me. I use these tables for just about everything. Bolting vises, benders, tubing notchers is easy as drilling holes or simply clamping them on with c-clamps. Here is a pic of one with the adjustable "H" beams in place. The beams can slide back and forth across the 3" upper tuibes and are usually clamped in place when I am doing heavy work. If you look through my BadAst thread you will see some of the work I have done on them.

      I put on (4) 4" swivel casters I got at a swap meet for 20 bucks and, when they are locked, the tables don't move unless I really bang into them. When I am using them as chassis jigs I have lugs welded to the legs that i run 3/4" bolts down to the floor for leveling. This raises the tables off the casters and makes them pretty much immobile.
      Mark
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
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    6. #6
      Join Date
      Jun 2005
      Posts
      543
      Are there any good plans out there for Jigs?

      I've honestly always wondered why they are necessary?

      The point of a jig, is to hold your parts while you assemble them. That is the point of a jig at its literary level.

      But at some point along the line (ESPECIALLY with motorcycle frames) people stopped using jigs as a fixture to hold things, and started using them as a ruler.

      It seems to me that if you know enough geometry to build a good jig, you shouldn't need one to build a car frame.

      If you just go out and buy a jig, and hook everything up and weld it, and just trust the jig, then how do you know everything really came out ok?

      Am I wrong?

      I've been having this argument on motorcycle boards for years, and sometimes people get downright violent and some of the older guys get offended, because I really don't see why you have to have a full length, i-beam fixture type jig to build a motorcycle frame.

      It seems to me that if you can devise something to clamp the neck tube so that it is straight and the backbone is straight, the rest of it can pretty much be done by clamping it to a table and checking your measurements.

      The same thing should apply to car frames (which technically should be easier than a motorcyle frame from a geometry standpoint, yes?)


      Mathius

    7. #7
      Join Date
      May 2002
      Location
      Northern California
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      Are there any good plans out there for Jigs? yes, you just have to look for them.

      I've honestly always wondered why they are necessary? In this case to square up a body or frame during construction.

      The point of a jig, is to hold your parts while you assemble them. That is the point of a jig at its literary level. yes. in this case a squaring support.

      But at some point along the line (ESPECIALLY with motorcycle frames) people stopped using jigs as a fixture to hold things, and started using them as a ruler. true, but also a sturdier back bone to support the frame work during welding.

      It seems to me that if you know enough geometry to build a good jig, you shouldn't need one to build a car frame. very true but it is difficult to hold a frame work together during the welding process.

      If you just go out and buy a jig, and hook everything up and weld it, and just trust the jig, then how do you know everything really came out ok? If your jig started square it should end being the same.

      Am I wrong? I think I missed that question.

      I've been having this argument on motorcycle boards for years, and sometimes people get downright violent and some of the older guys get offended, because I really don't see why you have to have a full length, i-beam fixture type jig to build a motorcycle frame. Maybe an open mind can help close that problem? Have no idea what was said but it might help.
      Right now I don't feel violent, lets see where this goes...also where do you live? Might save time later on down the road.

      It seems to me that if you can devise something to clamp the neck tube so that it is straight and the backbone is straight, the rest of it can pretty much be done by clamping it to a table and checking your measurements. that would be the basis of a jig, I think we are getting somewhere.

      The same thing should apply to car frames (which technically should be easier than a motorcyle frame from a geometry standpoint, yes?) correct, see, your not a complete idiot. LOL just kidding dood.


      Mathius, good questions and I do see your point. Having a jig table makes work a lot less in the long run. I've built both ways so I can say that it is worth the effort. Especially if you have to move your project.
      MrQuick ΜΟΛ'ΩΝ ΛΑΒ'Ε

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    8. #8
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      Central CA USA
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      "It seems to me that if you can devise something to clamp the neck tube so that it is straight and the backbone is straight, the rest of it can pretty much be done by clamping it to a table and checking your measurements."

      The above sounds a lot like a jig setup.
      To me, a jig table is something you can measure from, and attach fixtures to, that will hold the chassis you are building or modifying. As you weld things together they pull and twist and the jig needs to be strong enough to hold it in position while you bolt, weld, or rivet things together.
      David
      67 Camaro RS that will be faster than anything Mary owns.

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Nov 2007
      Location
      northern california
      Posts
      388
      i dont need anything fancy- most of the cars i build are tube chassis back half drag cars- But i want something that i can level and weld the body to at ride height then build around. Anyone seen the jig from skinny kid racecars?

      Im wondering if those bolts are attatched or is the table top just resting on them
      Scotts Speed and Custom

      norcal1320.com

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Nov 2007
      Location
      northern california
      Posts
      388
      Scotts Speed and Custom

      norcal1320.com

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Sep 2007
      Location
      Two Rivers, Wi.
      Posts
      95
      Heres one that dissasembles, probably not what your really thinking about, but it might give you an idea, anyway it works good.

      http://www.1969supersport.com/jig01.html

      Rob
      "There are questions to be answered, and answers to be questioned"


      Jigs, sandblasting, shop, paintroom, rotisserie, pictures, little bit of everything.
      http://www.1969supersport.com

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Jun 2005
      Posts
      543
      Quote Originally Posted by MrQuick
      Are there any good plans out there for Jigs? yes, you just have to look for them.
      I was sortof looking for examples?
      Quote Originally Posted by MrQuick
      If you just go out and buy a jig, and hook everything up and weld it, and just trust the jig, then how do you know everything really came out ok? If your jig started square it should end being the same.
      If. Here's my beef. And I"ll just bet this doesn't happen as much in the auto industry, just for the simple fact that car frames are much larger, and I would imagine there are less people building their own frames, and more people building the jigs themselves...

      But if you just go out and buy a jig, and use it, but you don't bother to check your measurements (or in some people's cases, especially with the whole chopper boom over the last 5 years, they just don't KNOW how to check, or WHAT to check) then you don't really know for sure it's coming out plumb and level, you're just going by a jig that someone else built.

      Quote Originally Posted by David Pozzi
      "It seems to me that if you can devise something to clamp the neck tube so that it is straight and the backbone is straight, the rest of it can pretty much be done by clamping it to a table and checking your measurements."

      The above sounds a lot like a jig setup.
      To me, a jig table is something you can measure from, and attach fixtures to, that will hold the chassis you are building or modifying. As you weld things together they pull and twist and the jig needs to be strong enough to hold it in position while you bolt, weld, or rivet things together.
      David
      You're absolutely right, from a definition standpoint, what I referred to above, would indeed be a jig. But in common slang, when most people refer to a jig, they are talking about something that handles the whole setup, ie. a frame jig, or a motorcycle frame jig, etc.

      It seems to me that if you know what you're doing (i.e. you know the right measurements to take, and check) it takes up a lot less space to have a few smaller pieces to use to clamp your work together, then a full frame jig sitting in your shop taking up space.

      In which case, why build one?

      Obviously if you're building a lot of frames, or particularly in a production setup, where you're building the same frame over and over again, a frame jig would come in handy.

      But.. (and again, most of my beef is with the motorcycle guys) there are people out there who swear that you're an idiot if you talk about building a frame without a jig.

      Mathius

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Nov 2007
      Location
      northern california
      Posts
      388
      i hear what yo are saying- I dont need a fully tooled out jig- I need an adjustable level sturdy table top that amkes it easier for me to fabricate on.
      Scotts Speed and Custom

      norcal1320.com

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Jun 2005
      Posts
      543
      Quote Originally Posted by scotzilla
      i hear what yo are saying- I dont need a fully tooled out jig- I need an adjustable level sturdy table top that amkes it easier for me to fabricate on.
      <shrug> It almost sounds like you're being sarcastic, but its hard to tell tone on the internet, so I'm not going to get offended.

      But actually I was thinking it wouldn't be very hard to take a few short pieces of angle and use some c-clamps to hold your frame tubes together, (unless you're doing a round race chassis, obviously) Set the frame rails up on jack stands if you want. Bathroom tiles make great shims for levelling. If you need to weld something at an angle, use some soapstone to mark your locations. You can weld to pieces of flat stock at the angle you want, and use those to clamp your work in place with c-clamps.

      The whole point of my query was, if you can measure and you know what you're doing, you can find ways to get it done, and get it done cheaply, without spending all your time (and money) building a full chassis jig.

      Mathius

    15. #15
      Join Date
      May 2002
      Location
      Northern California
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      sure but that in it self is time consuming and can be flawed.

      We are saying that you don't need a full blown jig table, you just need a flat, difficult to move, sturdy object to build on. Without a strong foundation your base will be inferior. I still build on the flatest section of floor that I can find in the shop with jack stands but I still need extra bracing just to make up for not having a jig.
      Example, im doing a 69 firebird. Its been on jack stands and leveled. After cutting and removing some metal a few of the jack stands no longer holds the body in some sections, you can almost remove the stand without moving the body. Now I have to re brace the body. If I had started on a jig table I could have gone straight to welding without having to re align anything.
      This particular project is going to get a full restructure so I wasn't too worried about movment early in the project. Just was a convienient example.

      I have used a pair of 4" I beams that I leveled on the floor with wood wedges. That would work great if my shop didn't move around so much. Having a jig table makes it so much easier.

      Make your own and use it if you like.
      MrQuick ΜΟΛ'ΩΝ ΛΑΒ'Ε

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    16. #16
      Join Date
      Jun 2005
      Posts
      543
      Quote Originally Posted by MrQuick
      sure but that in it self is time consuming and can be flawed.

      We are saying that you don't need a full blown jig table, you just need a flat, difficult to move, sturdy object to build on. Without a strong foundation your base will be inferior. I still build on the flatest section of floor that I can find in the shop with jack stands but I still need extra bracing just to make up for not having a jig.
      Example, im doing a 69 firebird. Its been on jack stands and leveled. After cutting and removing some metal a few of the jack stands no longer holds the body in some sections, you can almost remove the stand without moving the body. Now I have to re brace the body. If I had started on a jig table I could have gone straight to welding without having to re align anything.
      This particular project is going to get a full restructure so I wasn't too worried about movment early in the project. Just was a convienient example.

      I have used a pair of 4" I beams that I leveled on the floor with wood wedges. That would work great if my shop didn't move around so much. Having a jig table makes it so much easier.

      Make your own and use it if you like.
      <shrug> You can do it however you want. I wouldn't think the average guy has room to keep a jig in his garage at all times. For most guys here, this is a hobby, not a way of life.

      I work in a sheet metal shop. We do custom fabrication. We are a specialty shop, so we'll pretty much do any job. We do everything from 24 gauge duct work, to i-beams as tall as a car tire. Most of what we do is heavy gauge. With 65% of the sheet metal union industry being HVAC, the joke is that our apprentices only need a set of snips for school.

      I've seen guys in my shop build huge conveyor stands, furnace stands, kiln stands, stainless steel lab booths bigger than my garage, all in shop, and all with only vice grips, c-clamps, and the aid of a shop crane pretty much. These things are WAY too big to fit on a reasonable size work table (and our work tables are easily 12' long, steel and 4-6' wide) and our work varys way too much to have a jig in place for everything we build.

      We don't have any state of the art equipment either. Both of our owners are turning 70 soon, and the shop equipment in our shop is the same equipment they used when they were apprentices. They bought the shop from the previous owner. Our shop hasn't been "state-of-the-art" since about 1930.

      We build things like this on a regular basis. A car frame is not much more work to fabricate than some of these things, and we get the job done.

      The most amazing thing is, we do everything from a drawing, without even seeing the objects going into, on, or around whatever we're building. You guys have your car's body right there for reference.

      Sometimes adjustments are made in the field, but 95% of the time, when something that built, it works.

      I'm not trying to tell anyone there is a right or wrong way to do things, but I refuse to let this thread go on without letting people know that there are other options out there, and building your chassis on a chassis jig is not something that's mandatory.

      Mathius

    17. #17
      Join Date
      May 2002
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      Northern California
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      Scot,

      here are a few pictures of a simple commercial table that can be easily built from scratch. Also extended for longer builds.

      MrQuick ΜΟΛ'ΩΝ ΛΑΒ'Ε

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    18. #18
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      Northern California
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      Mathius,
      im not sure where you are going with this but sure you don't need a table, you don't need a jig. Im sure someone with 25 years of journeyman experience would not need one but some do. I agree with you to a point.

      My father now retired could make some incredible things with a piece of 4'x8', 0.032 and a pair of tin snips. Even he needed a flat surface to work from.
      MrQuick ΜΟΛ'ΩΝ ΛΑΒ'Ε

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    19. #19
      Join Date
      Nov 2007
      Location
      northern california
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      388
      noone said its madatory! Its convinient and a usefull tool for someone who is going to build alot of cars over thier lifetime. THanks for argueing a moot point and saving the poor souls on protouring.com. We get it! you dont think jigs are neccessary to build a straight and square piece. I AGREE WITH YOU. I want to build one, use one and profit from one. Most fabrication and restoration shops have one. You can allign your car with a measuring tape and some chalk- I guess there is no need for these fancy laser alignment racks that get the job done in a more effiecent and exact manner.

      This thread is about different designs and to discuss which ones work best in certain applications
      Scotts Speed and Custom

      norcal1320.com

    20. #20
      Join Date
      Nov 2007
      Location
      northern california
      Posts
      388
      thats exactly what im looking for- SOMething just like that but with adjustable legs
      Scotts Speed and Custom

      norcal1320.com

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