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    1. #41
      dennis68 Guest
      Thanks for "checking up" David. Yeah, we're fine. Yody has "wedgie" coming to him but he will recover.



    2. #42
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      Central CA USA
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      6,108
      Country Flag: United States
      I wish there were an unimpeachable authority to question on this subject and put it to bed for a while. Lots of opinions on the web.

      I DID notice the Trans Am race cars at Laguna Seca didn't have drilled rotors, but they DID have water spray systems in the brake ducts!
      But don't tell aybody...
      David
      67 Camaro RS that will be faster than anything Mary owns.

    3. #43
      Join Date
      Aug 2003
      Location
      Prescott Valley, AZ
      Posts
      820
      I wish I worked on my car as much as I talked about it.
      It's shake and bake!!! and i helped!
      Drewco Homes

    4. #44
      Join Date
      Feb 2001
      Location
      Portland, OR
      Posts
      940

      Holes

      It's as simple as this............if all out performance is what You're after look at race cars. From the top at F1 to bottom of the barrel at nascar.........no cross drilling. Carbon/ceramic or iron no drilling in racing aplications anymore but slotting is widely used. Drilling is done on Porsche's and Ferrari's because it looks racey and they have an image to uphold. If You want usefull cross drilling look at motorcycle rotors. That's done to reduce rotating mass and gyroscopic effect.....very important on a 400lbs bike.........not as important on a 3600lbs car.

      Conclusion.........Holes=bling, slots=function
      Daniel Kuehn
      '71 C-Prepared Chevelle

    5. #45
      Join Date
      Mar 2003
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      Boringville
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      according to who? you? what testing have you done? I am just to stubborn to believe, because a select amount of people on the internet believe this that it is true, and i bet you almost 90% of the people saying it did not think this earlier this year. people tend to be trendy and believe whatever they read. So just because a few people on canyone carvers said so, doesnt make it true. However I could really care less if they Don't do anything. I have no stakes in crossdrilled rotors, i am just not following the crowd.

    6. #46
      dennis68 Guest
      Hey Yody, you want testing. Call Hendricks Motorsports or Joe Gibbs Racing and ask them why none of their cars have drilled rotors. I'm sure since they SOOO good that maybe they don't know about them yet.

    7. #47
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      Mar 2003
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      Boringville
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      since when do any of us drive complete race cars? THey probably dont use them because the crack.

    8. #48
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Prescott Arizona
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      379
      Quote Originally Posted by yody
      according to who? you? what testing have you done? I am just to stubborn to believe, because a select amount of people on the internet believe this that it is true, and i bet you almost 90% of the people saying it did not think this earlier this year. people tend to be trendy and believe whatever they read. So just because a few people on canyone carvers said so, doesnt make it true. However I could really care less if they Don't do anything. I have no stakes in crossdrilled rotors, i am just not following the crowd.
      Classic.
      Brian D
      Snotty Bimmer driver.

    9. #49
      dennis68 Guest
      Quote Originally Posted by yody
      since when do any of us drive complete race cars? THey probably dont use them because the crack.
      Yeah but I drive it like it's a race car-just ask Vince.

    10. #50
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      Mar 2003
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      How about this then, if crossdrilling doesn't do anything to enhance braking because pads don't need the "degassing" and that is an old myth because brake pads thesed days don't need it, then why do slots help at all??? Heres my problem here, there is no real tech here, i have seen/and read the tech at CC.com but all it really was was a couple of engineers griping at each other. Nothing being said really makes sense it is all theorys and everything contradicts each other. It really isn't that big of a deal. If someone met me, and questioned the rotors, i would probably reply that i wasn't sure if they really did anything or not, but that i like the way the look. Its just funny to me that nobody really has any evidence. If slotting is on nascar then there is a reason, most likely; better braking,less fade, helps get rid of the gases, why not cross drilling? they cause cracks when abused, do crossdrilling work? probably so if the slots do, will they crack if you put them to extreme racing?maybe. On a mostly street car I don't see any disadvantages, and if you guys think that slots work then i don't see how you could contradict yourself and say that holes are for bling bling. And then there is my theory about Ferrari/Porsche/and mercedes. You guys keep saying that Ferrari and Porshce do if for looks, but never mention why Mercedes does it on their S500, where you can barely see the rotors.

    11. #51
      Join Date
      Aug 2003
      Location
      Prescott Valley, AZ
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      820
      I think I might simplify things a bit. My main reason, and I am sure others as well, is that cracks and potential breaks on a rotor at high speeds is not a good thing no matter how well it performs or looks. For those of us who have worked with metal extensively know what severe heat will do to steel. If I have two rotors in front of me one is drilled (be it cast or drilled) and the other is not, on race day, I will always go for the one that isn’t because it will work and I won’t have any safety concerns. Because all the big sports car guys are doing it is not an issue with me – keeping my car together is. To be honest, the calipers and pads will affect the same on a regular rotor or a cross drilled one and so performance is not an issue here in this argument. Show me one cross drilled rotor and I will show you 5 that have the same performance characteristics. After all, this is aftermarket products we are talking about here. We all want the best but for the most part, we will not sacrifice safety over anything.
      It's shake and bake!!! and i helped!
      Drewco Homes

    12. #52
      dennis68 Guest
      Yody, are you kidding???? I think my first reply had all the tech you need. Drilling removes removes friction area from the rotor-there is good tech that is undisputable and worsens braking performance. Drilling holes in rotors changes the grain flow of the material when it heats up causing metalurgy problems with heat transfer. Drilling holes in rotors does induce a problem with cracking that would not otherwise be there.

      Do I think they look cool- :icon996: , yeah especially the 2-peice Baer Eradispeeds. Will I ever run them, no.

    13. #53
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      oh, so do tell us, where do you get this info from?......let me guess...... CC.com??? sounds good, but of course anything that techincal sounds believable to someone who isn' an expert as myself. I know i am being an arse here but i guess i am playing devils advocate. So you are going on your info and facts based on some unknown canyon carvers Genious that came up with this stuff? or race oriented companies that are responsilbe for thousands of cars sold to the public, that can be held liable if all their rotors suddenly cracked and fell apart. Also show me a crossdrilled rotor that actually cracked and became a safety issue, i have seen the pics with the spiderweb cracking and one of a hairline crack in it. Obvioulsy those aren't safe but there still haven't been any accidents that i have heard of. Also if holes reduce the surface area then what to slots do??????? more contradictary. Let me ask you guys, if I had an engineer that you had never heard of come up with a valid "sounding" story with lots of "techincal talk" that was in favor of drilled rotors, would you change your mind and admit it??

    14. #54
      dennis68 Guest
      Yody, you will never find an engineer who will be able to contradict any of my points with any kind of valid data. No, they do not come from cc.com-I just found that site in the last few months. Yes, slotted rotors also reduce friction surface just not to the same degree. Slotted rotors also do not suffer from the same metalurgy problems associated with drilled rotors, if the slots were say every 1/2" we see or more pronounced concern. Actually most of points require little more than basic automotive/brake experience to form on your own. If you understand how brakes work than it is impossible to ignore that cutting away part of the rotor reduces total friction surface area and is no different than using smaller brake pads. I don't know of any race oriented companies that produce drilled rotors (Baer is certainly not race oriented, and even they admit that drilled rotors do nothing toward improving braking performance).

      Just curious, is the goal to see if we can re-hash the same over and over until the thread has like a 100 responses?

    15. #55
      Join Date
      Feb 2004
      Location
      Petaluma,CA
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      251
      only 46 more to go!!

    16. #56
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      Mar 2003
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      whats the count at? Well at least i got you thinking! I agree to agree that there can be some probability in your points, it is still not enough info to make me go for it, I also don't think people should be stating things that have not been proven. From the begining I never was really for or against either type of rotor. I still am not convicned, but agree that drilled rotors are not a sure thing. Well we will see if i can crack my rotors.

    17. #57
      dennis68 Guest
      Yeah, I'm thinking alright. Thinking about which orifice of yours I should stick my size 13 into.

    18. #58
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Prescott Arizona
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      379
      Quote Originally Posted by yody
      Also show me a crossdrilled rotor that actually cracked and became a safety issue, i have seen the pics with the spiderweb cracking and one of a hairline crack in it.
      Well, the link in the first post on this forum is dead, but it had a video and pictures of a failed, cross drilled rotor on a BMW 3 series. The failure originated from the holes, it was pretty obvious. Of course since the link isn't there any more, it never happened, right Yody?

      Whatever, it isn't like this is some ground breaking thread, check the dates on the link I posted-and it was tired then. I get the feeling that you will never be convinced, Yody, and I feel silly for arguing on the internet. So good luck to you. I'm out.
      Brian D
      Snotty Bimmer driver.

    19. #59
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Posts
      582
      Quote Originally Posted by dennis68
      Drilling removes removes friction area from the rotor-there is good tech that is undisputable and worsens braking performance.
      F_fk = mu_k * F_N
      F_fk = Frictional force, kinetic (which is basically, given rotor dia, your braking toque)
      mu_k = coefficient of kinetic friction
      F_N = normal force

      F_N = fluid_press*A_pis
      Fluid press = pressure in braking system
      A_pis = total area of caliper pistons

      I don't see pad area in braking "performance". Durability maybe, the smaller pads will wear out sooner I suppose. but, drilling does not decrease pad area, so that's a null point.

      Still not saying I support either of your views, just playing devil's advocate, I'd like to see a rebuttal to the basic math.

    20. #60
      dennis68 Guest
      Pad area very much plays into braking performance, the same way pad composition does. Nice try though, throw the 3rd year engineering major-math out there to confuse the point-almost got me.

      Only 40 to go.

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